The Trinity definition

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Jane_Doe22

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It might now but I've been posting here quite a while and there was once a doctrinal statement that defined Christian and consequently excluded some of the cults such as the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Church of latter day saints.
That is not the case here.
It is the case for some other sites like ChristianForums.
 

michaelvpardo

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can you explain this to me because this is one of those things that has never made sense to me. one day im just a guy, the next day i believe the Most High became a man. how does this make me a different person, a better person? this idea would fall under the category of the Most High can do what ever He wants, so the Most High becoming a man is really no different than the way things were to begin with.
now if i believe Jesus is the way, meaning the perfect example, a man, thats something i can do, i can do things the way Jesus did them, if i can have the faith that Jesus taught and lived by, that does in fact make me a better person. if i believe Jesus is the Most High, now Jesus is no longer the perfect example for mankind because He is no longer a man, only a man can be an example to man. James teaches that Jesus was tempted just the same as we are tempted. only a man can be tempted that way, the Father can not be tempted.
The biblical goal of christianity isn't to be a better person, but to be renewed in the image of God as revealed in the person of His son, to become a new creation. Until a person, including the most devout and pious Buddhist, receives Jesus Christ by faith, which is not simply acknowledging Him as the son of God, but submitting your will to His and asking to receive His Spirit, that person remains a creature of wrath, destined ultimately for destruction.
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:1-3
 

michaelvpardo

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That is not the case here.
It is the case for some other sites like ChristianForums.
The site has been ecumenical for as long as I've participated but there was most definitely a post defining christianity from the administrators which I no longer see on the home page, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped contradicting me and ask one of the long term moderators about this seemingly forgotten fact. I've also noticed that more than a few born again believers that participated in forum discussions have apparently abandoned the site. Arguing the meaning of scripture with the spiritually dead is a bit like going to a cemetery and trying to convince those buried there that they are in fact dead.
 

Jane_Doe22

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The site has been ecumenical for as long as I've participated but there was most definitely a post defining christianity from the administrators which I no longer see on the home page, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped contradicting me and ask one of the long term moderators about this seemingly forgotten fact. I've also noticed that more than a few born again believers that participated in forum discussions have apparently abandoned the site. Arguing the meaning of scripture with the spiritually dead is a bit like going to a cemetery and trying to convince those buried there that they are in fact dead.
I HAVE asked them-- literally when I was first checking out this website to investigate if it's a place where all that rejoice in Christ are welcome, because I like chatting with other folks hat love Christ.

We have Protestants, Catholics, SDA, JW, random non-Trinitarians, etc. I myself am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It's a diverse place.
 

michaelvpardo

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I HAVE asked them-- literally when I was first checking out this website to investigate if it's a place where all that rejoice in Christ are welcome, because I like chatting with other folks hat love Christ.

We have Protestants, Catholics, SDA, JW, random non-Trinitarians, etc. I myself am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It's a diverse place.
Been a member since 2011 and it wasn't always so.
 

AlsoAnne

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Been a member since 2011 and it wasn't always so.
Are you concerned that people who do not hold to the divinity of Christ and the trinity are on here and claiming to be part of Christ? That concerns me too.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Are you concerned that people who do not hold to the divinity of Christ and the trinity are on here and claiming to be part of Christ? That concerns me too.
Here: I'm a person whom loves Christ. He's the Son of God, and my Savior. I embrace Him with every fiber of my being, and yes do indeed consider myself a Christian.

I do deeply celebrate the divinity of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. However, I have some theological disagreements with some Creedal statements, including several of the Athanasian Creed's Trinity statements and can't ratify that.

I'm very open and honest about that. I celebrate Christ. I'm having a great week this week giving thanks for the many great things done by & of Him. I'm midway through preparing a Sunday School lesson talking about that gratitude. And next week I'm looking forward to celebrating His birth and life.
 

farouk

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Are you concerned that people who do not hold to the divinity of Christ and the trinity are on here and claiming to be part of Christ? That concerns me too.
@AlsoAnne As Matthew 28 indicates, 'the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost' is indeed a vital, doctrine: God in Three Persons, Co-Equal, Co-Eternal; there are plenty of other Scriptures also.
 

michaelvpardo

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Are you concerned that people who do not hold to the divinity of Christ and the trinity are on here and claiming to be part of Christ? That concerns me too.
Yes, but I'm not concerned for myself. I wasn't born again of His Spirit until I was 39 years old, but I've read scripture since I was a child and I'm probably a bit more familiar with it than most babes in Christ. At one time I did my absolute best to make cultists look like idiots, just so other young Christians reading the posts wouldn't buy into strange doctrines and be enslaved through the carnality of the cults. I'm troubled by the openness of the forum because cult members intentionally deceive people by either withholding some of their cultic beliefs or just lying outright.
Years ago I would invite Jehovah's witnesses into my home so I could pull out my bible and show them every erroneous statement they spoke. I even got a recent convert to admit to me that they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ (making them fit the biblical definition of antichrist). This escalated because the good little cultists reported their difficulties with me to their elders, who then sent more experienced liars to my door. I spoke to them because I was lead to Christ by a coworker who had been raised in a Jehovah's witness family, but was delivered by Christ and born again into His body (so it's possible for those indoctrinated into that cult to be saved and escape it). However, after a few visits the Lord reminded me of some verses pertaining to welcoming people with false gospels into your home, so at the next visit I advised them that they were no longer welcome and that their doctrine was anathema maranatha (accursed at Christ's return.) They didn't come back. The administrators here may not realize it, but according to scripture, welcoming people with false gospels to the site makes them share in the guilt of those cultists.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 2 John 1:9-11
There are multiple definitions of the word cult, but from my perspective the defining quality of a cult is the rejection of God in the person of Christ and I accept no person denying the person of Christ as a Christian. The very idea is ludicrous.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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Yes, but I'm not concerned for myself. I wasn't born again of His Spirit until I was 39 years old, but I've read scripture since I was a child and I'm probably a bit more familiar with it than most babes in Christ. At one time I did my absolute best to make cultists look like idiots, just so other young Christians reading the posts wouldn't buy into strange doctrines and be enslaved through the carnality of the cults. I'm troubled by the openness of the forum because cult members intentionally deceive people by either withholding some of their cultic beliefs or just lying outright.
Years ago I would invite Jehovah's witnesses into my home so I could pull out my bible and show them every erroneous statement they spoke. I even got a recent convert to admit to me that they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ (making them fit the biblical definition of antichrist). This escalated because the good little cultists reported their difficulties with me to their elders, who then sent more experienced liars to my door. I spoke to them because I was lead to Christ by a coworker who had been raised in a Jehovah's witness family, but was delivered by Christ and born again into His body (so it's possible for those indoctrinated into that cult to be saved and escape it). However, after a few visits the Lord reminded me of some verses pertaining to welcoming people with false gospels into your home, so at the next visit I advised them that they were no longer welcome and that their doctrine was anathema maranatha (accursed at Christ's return.) They didn't come back. The administrators here may not realize it, but according to scripture, welcoming people with false gospels to the site makes them share in the guilt of those cultists.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 2 John 1:9-11
There are multiple definitions of the word cult, but from my perspective the defining quality of a cult is the rejection of God in the person of Christ and I accept no person denying the person of Christ as a Christian. The very idea is ludicrous.
I very much accept the divinity of Jesus Christ, as I before stated. First Great Commandment comes first.

I'm also very much an advocate of the Second Great Commandment, and pro treating all people with love and respect, regardless of their race, nationality, creed, etc. That doesn't mean I agree with all those people (extremely not!), but treat them with love and kindness even while disagreeing. I am very much anti-smearing anyone and view that as a violation of the Second Great Commandment. Prejudice and bigotry of any type should not be part of the Christian life.

As to the accusation of "secrecy": that's an old laugh. I'm very open about my faith, and if anyone wants to know anything, just ask.
 

AlsoAnne

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Yes, but I'm not concerned for myself. I wasn't born again of His Spirit until I was 39 years old, but I've read scripture since I was a child and I'm probably a bit more familiar with it than most babes in Christ. At one time I did my absolute best to make cultists look like idiots, just so other young Christians reading the posts wouldn't buy into strange doctrines and be enslaved through the carnality of the cults. I'm troubled by the openness of the forum because cult members intentionally deceive people by either withholding some of their cultic beliefs or just lying outright.
Years ago I would invite Jehovah's witnesses into my home so I could pull out my bible and show them every erroneous statement they spoke. I even got a recent convert to admit to me that they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ (making them fit the biblical definition of antichrist). This escalated because the good little cultists reported their difficulties with me to their elders, who then sent more experienced liars to my door. I spoke to them because I was lead to Christ by a coworker who had been raised in a Jehovah's witness family, but was delivered by Christ and born again into His body (so it's possible for those indoctrinated into that cult to be saved and escape it). However, after a few visits the Lord reminded me of some verses pertaining to welcoming people with false gospels into your home, so at the next visit I advised them that they were no longer welcome and that their doctrine was anathema maranatha (accursed at Christ's return.) They didn't come back. The administrators here may not realize it, but according to scripture, welcoming people with false gospels to the site makes them share in the guilt of those cultists.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 2 John 1:9-11
There are multiple definitions of the word cult, but from my perspective the defining quality of a cult is the rejection of God in the person of Christ and I accept no person denying the person of Christ as a Christian. The very idea is ludicrous.

I agree with you and your last quote especially zealously. I also know of the scripture you provided and it has always bothered my why people think they can be friends with ones who deny Christ's divinity. As for JW, do you still think you can show them their error or deception?
 

Jane_Doe22

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I agree with your last quote, zealously. I also know of the scripture you provided. Can you show them their error or deception?
The best way to show people that you are Christian and have His love shine through. This is true for any person of any set of pews talking to another.
 

AlsoAnne

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The best way to show people that you are Christian and have His love shine through. This is true for any person of any set of pews talking to another.
I believe real love will hold to the truth and show others their error if God wills.
 
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michaelvpardo

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I very much accept the divinity of Jesus Christ, as I before stated. First Great Commandment comes first.

I'm also very much an advocate of the Second Great Commandment, and pro treating all people with love and respect, regardless of their race, nationality, creed, etc. That doesn't mean I agree with all those people (extremely not!), but treat them with love and kindness even while disagreeing. I am very much anti-smearing anyone and view that as a violation of the Second Great Commandment. Prejudice and bigotry of any type should not be part of the Christian life.
Pretty sure that you're reading into the 2nd great commandment something which isn't there. Theologians call that isogesis. When the Apostle Paul wished that the judaisers cut off their genitalia, was the man who wrote the bulk of the new testament being unchristian? Furthermore, I don't know what to make of the LDS. I attempted to read the book of mormon but I couldn't get past the few first chapters. It's a dead and lifeless text and the Spirit I received when I entrusted my soul to my Lord and savior made me put it down. I don't battle the cultists anymore. It's boring and pointless to argue with slaves to strange doctrines. I had a roommate in the service, that was a mormon from Northern California and I found his behavior more exemplary than most Christians that I know, yet the mormon who rented a room in my neighbor's house some years ago was going through some sort of mandatory missionary work and that sort of thing suggests a works based theology (which effectively denies God's grace and according to scripture becomes indebtedness to God (sin). That's okay, I was raised and confirmed in the RCC, and I consider much of their dogma cultic, but I still accept them as Christian as long as they don't deny the person of Christ or His resurrection. If they choose to be slaves to a church and it's traditions, that's their perogative. We're all slaves to something, but I'd rather be God's slave than a slave to men, and in giving me His Spirit, He's made me more than a slave, but an adopted son.
So Jane_doe (the name of anonymous dead women in morgues) are you alive in Christ? Have you married Him in the spiritual sense and left your salvation in His hands alone? Or is there something you must do to be righteous and accepted in the beloved?

9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 2 John 1:9-10
 

Jane_Doe22

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So Jane_doe (the name of anonymous dead women in morgues) are you alive in Christ? Have you married Him in the spiritual sense and left your salvation in His hands alone?
Yes and yes.
Or is there something you must do to be righteous and accepted in the beloved?
Just going to quote myself here:
I find the “faith versus works” entire argument to almost always be a straw man or people using different words for the same concept.

No, you don’t buy your way to Heaven, or otherwise earn it yourself. Salvation comes from God and is a matter of faith.

Also: a disciple of Christ should indeed follow Him. That does indeed mean follow- not just sit on your natively sinful butt like you did before. Action is a central part of being a Christian.





9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 2 John 1:9-10
Great verses.
 

michaelvpardo

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I agree with you and your last quote especially zealously. I also know of the scripture you provided and it has always bothered my why people think they can be friends with ones who deny Christ's divinity. As for JW, do you still think you can show them their error or deception?
The Jehovah's witnesses, just like the muslims, are taught that generally accepted versions of scripture have been corrupted. They use the New World Version which is a translation made by their elders, none of which were even qualified as translators of ancient Hebrew and the common Greek that was used in most new Testament scripture. The New World Translation carefully changed the meaning of every verse commonly understood to support the divine nature of the Lord, just as the JPS Tanakh was translated by Hebrew scholars to change every old testament messianic verse that supports Christian doctrine. At least the Jewish translators were honest enough to footnote all those verses to claim that the translation was uncertain. These false translations are all the work of the spirit of antichrist at work in the world, also called the spirit of this age, and the spirit of error. God is extremely zealous for His word, it's we who seem to take it casually.
 
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AlsoAnne

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The Jehovah's witnesses, just like the muslims, are taught that generally accepted versions of scripture have been corrupted. They use the New World Version which is a translation made by their elders, none of which were even qualified as translators of ancient Hebrew and the common Greek that was used in most new Testament scripture. The New World Translation carefully changed the meaning of every verse commonly understood to support the divine nature of the Lord, just as the JPS Tanakh was translated by Hebrew scholars to change every old testament messianic verse that supports Christian doctrine. At least the Jewish translators were honest enough to footnote all those verses to claim that the translation was uncertain. These false translations are all the work of the spirit of antichrist at work in the world, also called the spirit of this age, and the spirit of error. God is extremely zealous for His word, it's we who seem to take it casually.
Amen. I am sure I've seen warnings not to change the Word of God.
 

michaelvpardo

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Yes and yes.

Just going to quote myself here:







Great verses.
Amen. I am sure I've seen warnings not to change the Word of God.
Absolutely. There are admonitions against changing the word of God in the law and specific curses regarding changing the content of the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
 
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