Peter identifies Jesus as our God and Savior

BARNEY BRIGHT · Nov 20, 2020

GerhardEbersoehn said:
Can't you see, Jesus was NO ORDINARY MAN, BUT THE ONE AND ONLY GOD-MAN GOD THE SON OF GOD, GOD THE SON OF MAN! He did NOT <<return to dust>> but was as in his death and as in his grave LIKE HE WAS IN HIS RESURRECTION, GOD incessantly THE ALMIGHTY.

Scripture shows that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that God sent to the World of Mankind. John 3:16; Also The apostle John repeatedly describes Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son. (John1:14;3:16,18;1John4:9) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Logos, or Word, "this one was in the beginning with God."(John 1:1,2;17:5,24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the "only-begotten Son" whom his Father sent "into the world."(1John 4:9) There are many today who acknowledge that there is a Creator-God. Yet, ask them his name, and they cannot tell you. They are confused as to his identity. Some say he is Jesus Christ. However, the Bible says that Jesus is “the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God.” (Rev. 3:14) Others hold that the Creator, Jesus and “the Holy Ghost” are a trinity of three Gods in one, and that Jesus was actually a God-man while on earth. However, the Bible says that Jesus was merely a man while on earth: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man Christ Jesus.” (1 Tim. 2:5) The fact that Jesus is called a mediator between God and men shows that God and Jesus are not the same person. The “God-man” idea actually comes from “heathendom.” It was prominent in the Roman religion, which exalted the emperor as god incarnate. Regardless of what any council or man has said about Jesus’ nature, the only reliable source of religious truth is the Bible. This Word reveals that Jesus is God’s Son and as such he was not and is not God. Jesus himself said: “I am God’s Son.” To Mary the angel Gabriel said: “What is born will be called holy, God’s Son.” (John 10:36; Luke 1:34,35) In the scriptures at Revelations 3:14 Jesus is referred to as "the beginning(Greek word "arkhe") of the creation by God." Is that rendering of revelation 3:14 correct? Some take the view what is meant is that the Son was 'the beginner of God's creation,' that he was its 'ultimate source.' But Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon lists "beginning" as its first meaning of the Greek word "arkhe." Compare Proverbs 8:22 where many commentators agree, the Son is referred to as wisdom personified. According to the Revised Standard Bible, the New English Bible and the Jerusalem Bible the one there speaking is said to be "created."

BARNEY BRIGHT · Nov 20, 2020

GerhardEbersoehn said:
No, He was not DEAD, for three days, but, with reference to Matthew 12:40, Jesus was "for three days and three nights in the HEART-of-the-earth"-- the heart of deepest depths of SUFFERING AND ERNIEDRIGUNG OF THE CHRIST : "UNTO DEATH", even the death of death. He "finished" suffering death "the ninth hour", "on the first day", "the fourteenth day of the First Month"; He was finished buried "mid-afternoon That Day" : "of great-day-sabbath", "on the first day unleavened bread", "the fifteenth day of the First Month"; and He "finished" death AND "CLEANING THE SANCTUARY", "mid-afternoon ON THE SABBATH OF THE WEEK", "on the sixteenth day of the First Month". (You'll find each ""-quoted Scripture and others with a Cruden's.) It's that simple.

Jesus was executed and then he was raised from the dead by God, Acts 4:10 tells us that. Jesus himself said at Matthew 20:28 that he came to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many. Hebrews 2:14 tells us that Jesus died. It is through Jesus death he brought to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is the Devil. One of the first things the apostle Paul said he handed to the Corinthian Congregation at 1Corinthians 15:3, 4 is that Christ died for our sins and was raised up on the third day. At 1Peter 1:3 the apostle Peter praises God and Father of our Lord Jesus for his mercy because he gave them a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. Anyone who denies that Jesus was dead for three days and resurrected back to life on the third day will remain in their sins.

kcnalp · Nov 20, 2020

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
Jesus was executed and then he was raised from the dead by God, Acts 4:10 tells us that. Jesus himself said at Matthew 20:28 that he came to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many. Hebrews 2:14 tells us that Jesus died. It is through Jesus death he brought to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is the Devil. One of the first things the apostle Paul said he handed to the Corinthian Congregation at 1Corinthians 15:3, 4 is that Christ died for our sins and was raised up on the third day. At 1Peter 1:3 the apostle Peter praises God and Father of our Lord Jesus for his mercy because he gave them a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. Anyone who denies that Jesus was dead for three days and resurrected back to life on the third day will remain in their sins.

So you got all this from Kingdom Hall?

Brakelite · Nov 20, 2020

Knowing Jesus as God doesn't necessarily mean one must accept the "trinity" as taught by the church. In other words, the "trinity" doesn't define the deity of Jesus, scripture does.

kcnalp · Nov 20, 2020

Backlit said:
Knowing Jesus as God doesn't necessarily mean one must accept the "trinity" as taught by the church. In other words, the "trinity" doesn't define the deity of Jesus, scripture does.

The Father isn't God? The Holy Spirit isn't God?

BARNEY BRIGHT · Nov 20, 2020

kcnalp said:
So you got all this from Kingdom Hall?

these scriptures that are in the Bible. look them up.

Brakelite · Nov 20, 2020

Christophany said:
The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings.

Scholars and professors of religion, with and without letters after their names to prove their advanced "wisdom and learning", have for centuries attempted to define the nature of the Godhead. They have all failed to the extent that they themselves have never been able to explain it in terms they could fully understand, thus their unanimous agreement in calling it a "mystery", nor have any of them been able to explain it in terms anyone else could understand. I am not sure why Christians today still try to explain something trying to define what ll admit is a mystery?
Your attempt above is no improvement on anything previously offered. The Nicean Creed couldn't accomplish it, nor any council since.

Christophany said:
consisting of one substance

Really? So this "substance" sent the Son into the world, or the Father? See John 3:16

Christophany said:
coeternal, coequal, and copowerful.

If this were the case, then how do we get Father and Son?

Christophany said:
If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

What happened to God then when Jesus died?

Christophany said:
They are of one substance, nature, essence or Being. You cannot have the Father without the Son, the Son without the Father, The Son or Father without the Holy Spirit or you would not have God according to Scripture, you would have a false god or what is known as an idol.

That is all conjecture.

kcnalp · Nov 20, 2020

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
these scriptures that are in the Bible. look them up.

You don't even agree with Kingdom Hall.
NWT
Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER and ever.

BARNEY BRIGHT · Nov 21, 2020

kcnalp said:
You don't even agree with Kingdom Hall.
NWT
Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER and ever.

the scriptures tell us that Death and Hades(Hell) are thrown into the lake of fire, It's logical for me to understand that what happens to Death and Hades(Hell) when they're thrown into the Lake of fire happens to the Devil, the wild beast, the false prophet as well. I don't believe Death and Hades(Hell) to be living beings so they can't be tormented, so what happens to Death and Hades(Hell) when they're thrown into the Lake of Fire which the scriptures say is the second death. It seems to me that when Death and Hades(Hell) are thrown into the Lake of Fire it being the second death that both Death and Hades(Hell) is going to be annihilated. the Greek word "basanizo" means primarily "to test(metals)by the touchstone." In the context, the use of this Greek word indicates that what happens to Satan will serve, for all eternity, as a touchstone on the issue of the rightness and righteousness of Jehovah’s rule. That issue of sovereign rulership will have been settled once and for all time. Never again will a challenge to Jehovah’s sovereignty need to be tested over an extended period of time in order to be proved wrong. Additionally, the related word basanistesʹ, “tormentor,” is used in the Bible to mean “jailer.” (Matthew 18:34, Kingdom Interlinear) In harmony with this, Satan will be imprisoned in the lake of fire forever; he will never be released. Finally, in the Greek Septuagint, which was well known to John, the related word basanos is used to refer to humiliation that leads to death. (Ezekiel 32:24, 30) This helps us to see that the punishment that Satan undergoes is a humiliating, everlasting death in the lake of fire and sulfur. His works die with him.—1 John 3:8.

kcnalp · Nov 21, 2020

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
the scriptures tell us that Death and Hades(Hell) are thrown into the lake of fire, It's logical for me to understand that what happens to Death and Hades(Hell) when they're thrown into the Lake of fire happens to the Devil, the wild beast, the false prophet as well. I don't believe Death and Hades(Hell) to be living beings so they can't be tormented, so what happens to Death and Hades(Hell) when they're thrown into the Lake of Fire which the scriptures say is the second death. It seems to me that when Death and Hades(Hell) are thrown into the Lake of Fire it being the second death that both Death and Hades(Hell) is going to be annihilated. the Greek word "basanizo" means primarily "to test(metals)by the touchstone." In the context, the use of this Greek word indicates that what happens to Satan will serve, for all eternity, as a touchstone on the issue of the rightness and righteousness of Jehovah’s rule. That issue of sovereign rulership will have been settled once and for all time. Never again will a challenge to Jehovah’s sovereignty need to be tested over an extended period of time in order to be proved wrong. Additionally, the related word basanistesʹ, “tormentor,” is used in the Bible to mean “jailer.” (Matthew 18:34, Kingdom Interlinear) In harmony with this, Satan will be imprisoned in the lake of fire forever; he will never be released. Finally, in the Greek Septuagint, which was well known to John, the related word basanos is used to refer to humiliation that leads to death. (Ezekiel 32:24, 30) This helps us to see that the punishment that Satan undergoes is a humiliating, everlasting death in the lake of fire and sulfur. His works die with him.—1 John 3:8.

So you're saying Kingdom Hall is wrong.
NWT
Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER.

ChristisGod · Nov 21, 2020

Backlit said:
Scholars and professors of religion, with and without letters after their names to prove their advanced "wisdom and learning", have for centuries attempted to define the nature of the Godhead. They have all failed to the extent that they themselves have never been able to explain it in terms they could fully understand, thus their unanimous agreement in calling it a "mystery", nor have any of them been able to explain it in terms anyone else could understand. I am not sure why Christians today still try to explain something trying to define what ll admit is a mystery?
Your attempt above is no improvement on anything previously offered. The Nicean Creed couldn't accomplish it, nor any council since.

Really? So this "substance" sent the Son into the world, or the Father? See John 3:16

If this were the case, then how do we get Father and Son?

What happened to God then when Jesus died?

That is all conjecture.

I will share something I put together explaining Jesus 2 natures as God and man.

Hypostatic Union

1. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)

2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)

3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed,wept, grew in wisdom and stature,was anointed,was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature.

4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).

5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)

6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a member of the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)

Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person. So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the fifth general council at Constantinople, 533 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).

Brakelite · Nov 21, 2020

Christophany said:
The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature.

Discussion of the Godhead invariably turns to declarations such as this which is not found explicitly in scripture, therefore is an intellectual assumption made by the individual. I'm not suggesting the the Son of God isn't Deity. I believe He is God in every sense of the word. But believing Jesus is the Son of God and therefore Divine, does not necessitate a belief in the Trinity in the manner the mainstream church, and you, present it. I can quite happily and contentedly accept the Son of God as a part of the Godhead without being condemned for refusing to accept those definitions and presumptions as to how the Godhead is comprised and held together.

kcnalp · Nov 21, 2020

The Father is God. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Doesn't really matter what you call it.

GerhardEbersoehn · Nov 21, 2020

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
Scripture shows that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that God sent to the World of Mankind. John 3:16;

That is not all that <<Scripture shows>>. The whole purpose of all Scripture is to show that it was GOD the Only Begotten Son of God that God sent to the World of mankind, John 3:16. Jesus, "SO LOVED" in the full Fellowship of Equity of Father, Son and Spirit, AS the Father and the Holy Spirit "LOVED".

GerhardEbersoehn · Nov 21, 2020

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
As the Logos, or Word, "this one was in the beginning with God."(John 1:1,2;17:5,24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the "only-begotten Son" whom his Father sent "into the world."(1John 4:9)

To have existed like you describe here The Son did, how do you think He could IF NOT AS GOD ALMIGHTY IN THE FULL EQUITY OF FELLOWSHIP OF GOD ALMIGHTY THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT?!

GerhardEbersoehn · Nov 21, 2020

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
the Bible says that Jesus is “the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God.” (Rev. 3:14)

. . .the very same weakness in argument as in your previous statement. The Bible says that Jesus is “the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God.” (Rev. 3:14), GOD the Beginner only can be "the beginning of the creation by God" (whether the words must be <by God> or "of God"-- no diffs). In other words, how do you think the Son could be "the beginning of the creation by God", IF NOT AS GOD ALMIGHTY IN THE FULL EQUITY OF FELLOWSHIP OF GOD ALMIGHTY THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT?!

GerhardEbersoehn · Nov 22, 2020

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man Christ Jesus.” (1 Tim. 2:5)

The best thing you could do for yourself IN THIS LIFE STILL, dear Barney Bright, is to urgently send that church of yours to hell and taste freedom and GOD'S ONLY Salvation. “For ONE, GOD, both one Mediator and God between men, is a MAN : (God The Man) Christ Jesus!” or “For ONE, GOD, one Mediator-God of men, is a MAN : Christ Jesus!” 1 Tim. 2:5εἷς γὰρ Θεός, εἷς καὶ [both] μεσίτης Θεοῦ καὶ ἀνθρώπων, ἄνθρωπος Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς. "GOD IS MAN, IS MEDIATOR : THE MAN THE MEDIATOR JESUS CHRIST". That is what Paul wrote. Your church is a spreader of delusion and deceit.

GerhardEbersoehn · Nov 22, 2020

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
The fact that Jesus is called a mediator between God and men shows that God and Jesus are not the same person.

Who said that God and Jesus are the same person? Nobody did! No sane sober honest Christian would, because the Father and the Son are not the same Person, BUT, IN FULL EQUITY AND FELLOWHIP OF FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT, IS THE ONLY GOD 'THERE IS' and IS MIGHTY AND ABLE TO BE : "I-AM".

GerhardEbersoehn · Nov 22, 2020

Backlit said:
What happened to God then when Jesus died?

Declared a mortal sinner, not once, but often and in various ways, When Jesus died God did not die : "FOR THAT CANNOT BE" she said. And when I later in life but thank God betimes realised, but this is blasphemous ASSUMPTION-- yea, deadly presumptuousness, I left that darn cult-church. Because "GOD IN CHRIST" and only HE, says, "I HAVE POWER --the Power of GOD-- to lay down MY LIFE and I --being GOD Myself-- HAVE, POWER --the Power of GOD-- to TAKE UP MY LIFE again : MY --DIVINE-- LIFE". Lesson in Truth is this, That Jesus the Man of Nazareth, Holy Secluded Acre of DIVINITY on earth, by the one and only POWER OF GOD BOTH DIED AND RESURRECTED : resurrected not from the rotting carcases in graves, but "FROM THE DEAD". Because He IS GOD and HAS THE POWER to be "counted among the transgressors" but UNLIKE they, HAS THE POWER to "share his grave with the mightiest" of men in death, BUT IN GLORY OF RESURRECTION OF DIVINE LIFE TO TAKE IT UP AGAIN: "I-AM, am the Resurrection and the Life." Worship HIM WHO IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD and no man ordinary or ordinarily.

Brakelite · Nov 22, 2020

kcnalp said:
The Father is God. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Doesn't really matter what you call it.

It matters when you use your theory to persecute others calling them heretics if they don't believe your man made definition.

Peter identifies Jesus as our God and Savior

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