Isaac and Ishmael

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This could get interesting..
Everybody got your arrows drawn?
I got my shield.. :)
I rather ye have your plows and pruning hooks so we can grow together.
Some prefer arrows... ah well..
Here we go..

Everybody is laughing.. Abraham is laughing, Sarah is laughing, even Isaac's name means laughing.. HAHAHA... but this is serious stuff.

The same pattern repeats itself over and over. Like God is trying really hard to show us something. And maybe most of you already seen it, but I'm still kind of in the dark..
so walk with me.. and help me shed some Light on the matter.
Thank You!

Once upon a time, in a land far away......

Gen 11:24 And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah:
Gen 11:25 And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
Gen 11:27 Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
Gen 11:28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
Gen 11:29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.

Now Nahor is of the line of Shem.. the Eldest or first son of Noah after the flood.
This is that lineage of which Abram came from.

Beginning with Shem:

cont..
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
All names and definitions come from Lexicon Strongs translations, found at blueletterbible.org.

Gen 11:10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:
Gen 11:11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.

Shem = "name"
to mark with a sign, to designate, sign, stigma, mark with which anyone is marked.

Gen 11:12 And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah:

Arphaxad = "I shall fail as the breast: he cursed the breast-bottle"
Arpakshad, a son of Noah; also the region settled by him:—Arphaxad.
a land by the side of Asia, Porussia, near the Russians.

Gen 11:13 And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.

Salah or Shelah = "sprout"
a weapon, missile, as sent against an enemy. arms, specially a sword. to arm oneself, to perish by the weapon (death) .

Gen 11:14 And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber:

Eber or Heber = "the region beyond"
region on the other side, situated across the river, or across the sea.

Gen 11:15 And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:16 And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg:

Peleg = "division"
1Ch 1:19 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of the one was Peleg; H6389 because in his days the earth was divided: and his brother's name was Joktan.

Gen 11:17 And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:18 And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu:

Reu = "friend"
friend (of God)

Gen 11:19 And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:20 And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug:

Serug = "branch"
(shoot)

Gen 11:21 And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:22 And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor:

Nahor = "snorting"
son of Serug, father of Terah, and grandfather of Abraham
breathing hard, snorting

Gen 11:23 And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:24 And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah:

Terah = "station"
the father of Abraham
Tarah = "delay"
a station of Israel in the wilderness
Terach, the father of Abraham; also a place in the Desert:—Tarah, Terah.

Gen 11:25 And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.

Abram = "exalted father"
original name of Abraham

Nahor = "snorting"
son of Terah and brother of Abraham

Haran = "mountaineer"
youngest son of Terah, brother of Abraham, father of Lot, Milcah, and Iscah; born and died in Ur of the Chaldees
name of the place to which Abraham migrated from Ur of the Chaldees and where the descendants of his brother Nahor established themselves; probably located in Mesopotamia, in Padanaram, the cultivated district at the foot of the hills between the Khabour and the Euphrates below Mount Masius

Gen 11:27 Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.

Lot = "covering"
son of Haran and Abraham's nephew who settled in Sodom and was delivered from its destruction by God
a covering, a veil. The covering which is spread over all nations. that which covers their faces and makes them sad.
[Rather, the veil which keeps their hearts from God]

Gen 11:28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.

Ur = "flame"
city in southern Babylonia, city of the Chaldeans, centre of moon worship, home of Abraham's father, Terah, and departure point for the Abraham's migration to Mesopotamia and Canaan

Gen 11:29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.

cont..
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So God calls Abram out of Babylon... interesting..
And before I come to Sarai, we know that Sarai is Abrams sister/wife. She is the daughter of his father but not of his mother.

Gen 12:10 And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.
Gen 12:11 And it came to pass, when he was come near to enter into Egypt, that he said unto Sarai his wife, Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon:
Gen 12:12 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive.
Gen 12:13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.
Gen 12:14 And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair.
Gen 12:15 The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house.
Gen 12:16 And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels.
Gen 12:17 And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.
Gen 12:18 And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?
Gen 12:19 Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.
Gen 12:20 And Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had.

This culture is so strange to me..

So Abram fearing for his life, willingly hands over to Pharaoh his wife. In return, Abram is gifted with sheep, oxen, asses, men and maid servants, she asses, and camels.
So Pharaoh.. unknowingly is thinking Sarai.. hmmm.. God says.. nope don't even think about it.
Pharaoh says, Abram.. you lied.. take your wife and get out of here.
So see how Abram left with what he came with and a whole lot more..

Gen 13:1 And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.
Gen 13:2 And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.

And I know you can see how Moses went to Egypt to get Israel and they came out with a lot of stuff.
Egypt gets plundered a lot in my opinion... but that has something to do with getting rich off the gentiles that Paul talks about..
We get to that later.

Not until Genesis chapter 20 do we find that Sarai is Abraham's sister/wife. Also by now Abram's name is changed to Abraham and Sarai is now Sarah.

Gen 20:1 And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.
Gen 20:2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
Gen 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
Gen 20:4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
Gen 20:5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
Gen 20:6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
Gen 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.
Gen 20:8 Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid.
Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
Gen 20:10 And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?
Gen 20:11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
Gen 20:12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
Gen 20:13 And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
Gen 20:14 And Abimelech took sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and womenservants, and gave them unto Abraham, and restored him Sarah his wife.

Oh look, more sheep and oxen and sevants and his wife...

Don't try this at home..
I will mention one thing though..
Abram knew Sarai was barren. There was never a fear that she may carry another man's child.. so.. what then? prostitute her to get rich?
Or is Sarah a tool that God used to make Himself known to the Gentile Nations..
No harm came to Sarah. In both cases God prevented Sarah from the embarrasment or shame of fornication.
But Abram.. dude..
ok..
moving on
cont.
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
2 things I want to point here.

1. Abimalech.. considered himself a "righteous" nation. He speaks directly to the Lord concerning his integrity of heart and innocency of that which was done to him.
Sin... And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin?

So for there to be sin.. there needs to be law... just saying...

2. We know who Abram's father is, we have his lineage. As for Sarai, we know her father is Abram's father.. but who is mom?

When we get to Isaac and Ishmael we come into the same scenerio..
One father and 2 sons by two different moms.

Isaac could say this of Ishmael, he is my brother of my father but not of my mother... Ishmael could say the same. Same Dad, different Mom.

Sarai = "princess"
original name of Sarah the wife of Abram or Abraham
"nobility"

Sarah = "noblewoman"
specially of the wives of a king of noble birth, who differed from the concubines.

Is it possible that Sarai herself was the concubine of Abram's father, whom he took himself to wife.
And Sarah then gives Hagar the concubine to Abram to bear a son for her.

Interesting..
It's a culture thing.. right?

Sarah was elevated .. thou hast magnified my soul...
hmm..

So we know where God called Abram from. Ur ... Babylon.. the Fire... and land of "moon" worship.
We find out later when Joseph tells Isaac his dream about the sun and moon and eleven stars bowing down to him,
that the moon represents his mother.. so..

Moon worship... mother worship.. Godess worship.. in Babylon.. Come Out of Her my People!!

ok..

The promise:

next..
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
RANDOM VERSES AND THOUGHTS...
NOTICE!!!
RANDOM VERSES AND THOUGHTS...

I don't know why I feel this is necessary.. but I feel I must needs put a disclaimer.. so everyone is aware...

RANDOM VERSES AND THOUGHTS!!

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

One Nation.. under God... indivisible... with liberty... and justice ... for all.

ok..
God promises Abram a great nation. one nation. In him.. shall all families of the earth.. be blessed.
earth, earthy..
debating whether to go back to the creation of beasts/man or go forward to the NT... hmm thinking...
forward..don't look back.. ok

Luk 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
??

Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Look at the stars... whoda thunk coldplay.. yellow..
intermission:


cont..
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is it possible that Sarai herself was the concubine of Abram's father, whom he took himself to wife.
And Sarah then gives Hagar the concubine to Abram to bear a son for her.
I want to fix this..
I meant to say that I wonder if Sarai could be the daughter of Abram's father's concubine, which his father gave him as a wife.

It didn't sound proper the other way. Which opens the door to... for an example:
Gen 36:12 And Timna was concubine to Eliphaz Esau's son; and she bare to Eliphaz Amalek: these were the sons of Adah Esau's wife.
Kind of like Naomi claiming Ruth's son as her own...
even though Ruth was Naomis daughter-in-law.. she was given/baught/under the law of kinsmanship.. to Boaz which was Naomi's kinsman..
father of Jesse and David.. even though Ruth herself was a moabite...
this can get complicated..

So Sarah... Abraham's wife.. and sister ... daughter of the same father, but not the mother....
Would it be so difficult then, seeing that Sarah could not bear children to go unto Sarah's concubine and produce a child for Sarah?
No, it was common.. culture.. not like ours at all.. just saying..
But something happened when Sarah saw that Hagar did in fact get pregnant...

Something about me...
I have one daughter. I been married 2 times. Neither of those 2 men are the father of my daughter, which I had 4 years before my first husband.
Now my first husband was divorced and had no children. He claimed his last wife used contraceptions, therefore he had no children.
I didn't use contraceptions, I was married 16 years and never got pregnant. Was it him or was it me? I thought maybe being at a young age perhaps it effected my chances of having any more children.. although I had no troubles in child birth whatsoever.
So I thought.. hmm.. him or me?
I remarried another man who had also been divorced. His ex wife had 3 children from a prior marriage. He had no children of his own.
We were married for 16 years.. funny.. I have my own weird pattern.. anywho... again I thought, him or me?
I had a child. But two men and childless.. was it me? ... was it them??? I don't know.

So the reason I told this was, I'm wondering if Sarai in her heart felt that Abram was at fault for her not having children.
And when Hagar did get pregnant then she knew it was herself and not Abram that couldn't have offspring.
This would at least possibly explain why it was that Sarah despised Hagar and wanted her and "her" son gone. Even though she gave Hagar to Abraham to bear herself a child.

complicated for sure... jealousy.. that has to be one of the worst inflictions on the human soul. It will eat you alive.

So here I'm working on this..
Ishmael is Abraham's son.. just like most of Jacob's sons who were birthed by both Rachel and Leah's concubines was Jacob's sons.
Only difference is Sarah cast Ishmael out.
what does Paul say:

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

and he quotes this from:

Gen 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

No, I'm not picking on Paul.. I'm just showing where he got that quote from..

God told Abraham to listen to his wife.. and he did. And Paul recorded what Sarah said.
So Paul listened to Sarah...

Im going to try and get back to the promise...

Gen 12:6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.
Gen 12: 7And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

cont..
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gen 12:6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.
Gen 12: 7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

Canaanite = see Cana "zealous"
descendant of inhabitant of Canaan
a merchant, trader
a Kenaanite or inhabitant of Kenaan; by implication, a pedlar (the Canaanites standing for their neighbors the Ishmaelites, who conducted mercantile caravans):—Canaanite, merchant, trafficker.

and we know Canaan is the grandson of Noah, son of Ham, who was messing with Noah's skirt... still working on that.. hanky panky or something.
Whatever that was it brought the full wrath of Noah down on Canaan's head for something his father done..
that don't seem fair.. however.. Jesus said something about doing the works their father do, so maybe Noah wanted to nip whatever Ham did in the bud by cursing Canaan...
that is for another thread... oh my goodness, so many distractions.. argghh

So Abraham is going to inherit the land inhabited by the cursed merchants and traffickers..
I see God is sending Abraham to go save the gentiles not that there are any jews yet, by the way, but God did say Abraham was a prophet.. and if they bless him, they will be blessed. And if they curse him.. boy that's bad, seeing they already cursed huh?... ugh.

Where are we... we passed through Sichem and we now in the plains of Moreh.

Shechem = "back" or "shoulder"
a city in Manasseh; located in a valley between Mount Ebal and Mount Gerizim, 34 miles (54 km) north of Jerusalem and 7 miles (10.5 km) south- east of Samaria

between the shoulder blades of the back.. hmm.
same name as the guy who messed with Dinah.

so we walking between the shoulder blades and we come to Moreh.

Moreh = "teacher"
The oak tree at Shechem where Abram stopped when he first entered Canaan; close to the mountains of Ebal and Gerizim
The hill in the valley of Jezreel at which the Midianites were camped when Gideon attacked them
the hill of the teacher, in the valley of jezreel.

So Abraham walked along the spine, between the shoulder blades and came to the head, where teachers usually are the brains..
I just picturing it in my head.. don't get snippy..

Gen 12:8 And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the LORD, and called upon the name of the LORD.
Gen 12:9 And Abram journeyed, going on still toward the south.

Alice!?
I'm still looking for the looking glass..:oops:
nevermind, I need the compass.. :rolleyes:

Gen 12:10
And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.

This is where double vision comes in handy..
You can look at famine in two ways.
You got physical, no crops, no wheat, no bread, no fruit.. hungry, thirsty.. famished.
Then you got spiritual, no word of God, no spiritual fruit, joy, peace, mercy, kindness, no spirit.. not dead.. but definately lacking.

So Abram leaves the plains of Moreh "the teacher" apparently he's not there... and wanders on down to Egypt looking for some food.
This is where Abram makes his first good crop of goods from Pharaoh wanting to mess with Sarai his wife.
And we already covered what happened there, so we keep going..

Gen 13:1 And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.

Went UP OUT and into the south...
I wonder if we still use the same map today..?

Gen 13:3 And he went on his journeys from the south even to Bethel, unto the place where his tent had been at the beginning, between Bethel and Hai;
Gen 13:4 Unto the place of the altar, which he had made there at the first: and there Abram called on the name of the LORD.

what goes around, comes around...:rolleyes:

Now this is where Abraham and Lot have so much stuff they have to seperate themselves. And Abraham tells Lot you can have the left hand or the right hand... oh wouldya look at that! .. nope keep moving..

So Lot plants his "tent" tent.. tabernacle... in the gates facing Sodom... don't look back ethel! .. I mean Lot's wife.

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.
Gen 13:9 Is not the whole land before thee? separate thyself, I pray thee, from me: if thou wilt take the left hand, then I will go to the right; or if thou depart to the right hand, then I will go to the left.
Gen 13:10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.
Gen 13:11 Then Lot chose him all the plain of Jordan; and Lot journeyed east: and they separated themselves the one from the other.

Interesting description of Jordan. Sounds nice. sleepy meadowy even.. easy.. carefree.. ladida..

I need coffee

Promise.. focus, focus..
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So to make a long story half as long, Abraham has all this stuff, all this land. And he is worried he don't have any children to leave it all to when he dies. Except this guy named Eliezer a steward from Damascus.

Gen 15:2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
Gen 15:3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

NLT: You have given me no descendants of my own, so one of my servants will be my heir.”
I got flooded with a bunch of verses.. all I hear is every word will be accounted for. There is a reason for Abraham making this statement and it being recorded... and I hear servant, servant, came not to be served but to serve... keeping going..

This next has future written all over it, I just haven't gotten there yet..

Gen 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. ( look at the stars.. look how they shine for you... )
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Gen 15:7 And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.
Gen 15:8 And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?

I believe you... but..how?
Believing in God's word is a sign of righteousness... wouldya look at that..

Then we got this ritual thing, not sure what to make of it.. now this is for the inheritance of the land.. not the promise of an heir.

Gen 15:9 And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
Gen 15:10 And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.
Gen 15:11 And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.

I just put that there.. maybe someone already knows what that's all about.. or another study to add to the enless lists of studies.
I could use some shovels.. :)

Gen 15:12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Gen 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
Gen 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

So first thing comes to mind is the deep sleep that God had fall upon Adam, and he removed a rib and created Eve.
thy seed stranger in a land that is not theirs, shall serve (them) . them many.. they, we know is Egypt for 400 years.
So the seed that's a stranger not in their land is Isaac/Hebrews/Israel.
Also that nation (singular) whom they shall serve, will I judge. and then they get to wander through the wilderness with great substance.
Egypt gets plundered again. Because they don't Know God.. mm hmm.
I know Cain and Abel is in here somewhere.. but I'm trying to focus on Isaac and Ishmael.. distractions, distractions..

Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

So God is using Israel as a weapon against his enemies. The ones who don't know or refuse to know God.
Same way we are lights in a dark world.. stars in the night... look at the stars... stop it.. ok

A heifer, a she goat, a ram all 3 years old. A turtle dove and a pigeon.
heifer, she goat, ram.. divided and not the turtle dove or the pigeon.. those remain whole.. undivided.

Gen 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
Oh look we have 2.. a smoking furnace... that was Babylon right?? scroll up, up

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

a smoking furnace..
NLT: After the sun went down and darkness fell, Abram saw a smoking firepot and a flaming torch pass between the halves of the carcasses

I have a feeling it's talking about going through the red sea and God going before them in a pillar of fire..
I'm leaving this and moving on...

The next part has lots of names of the lands of the peoples God is making a covenant with Abraham for.

5am and the candle is still burning.. oh my

cont.
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
Gen 15:19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
Gen 15:20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
Gen 15:21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

So same day is evening to evening.. and this day began as the sun was going down and a great horror came over abram and knowing his seed would go into captivity.. this is still that same day.

Unto thy seed that Abram's seed, he got some good ground to plow in. from the river of Egypt, unto the great river, the river Euphrates.
If you look in Eden we got rivers running there too:

Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
Gen 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

Pison = "increase"
water poured forth, overflowing

Havilah = "circle"
a part of Eden through which flowed the river Pison (Araxes); was probably the Grecian Colchis, in the northeast corner of Asia Minor, near the Caspian Sea

Gihon = "bursting forth"
one of the four rivers of the Garden of Eden

Ethiopia: Cush = "black"
the son of Ham and grandson of Noah and the progenitor of the southernmost peoples located in Africa
the land occupied by the descendants of Cush located around the southern parts of the Nile (Ethiopia)

Hiddekel = "rapid"
one of the rivers of Eden which coursed east toward Assyria; better known as the Tigris (the LXX equivalent)

Asshur or Assyria = "a step"
he second son of Shem, eponymous ancestor of the Assyrians

Euphrates = "fruitfulness"
the largest and longest river of western Asia; rises from two chief sources in the Armenian mountains and flows into the Persian Gulf

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

This sounds like that fountain of water Jesus talked about to that woman at the well.. about the living water.. And Abraham is given this land as an inheritance... imagine that.. how cool is that??!!

and then there are the peoples.. he gets to inherit as well...
Gen 15:19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,

Kenite = "smiths"

Kenezite or Kenizzites = "descendant of Kenaz"
Kenaz = "hunter"
son of Eliphaz and grandson of Esau; one of the dukes of Edom

Kadmonites = "easterners"
former, ancient, eastern
from H6930; (of time) anterior or (of place) oriental:—ancient, they that went before, east, (thing of) old.

Gen 15:20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,

Hittite = "descendant of Heth"
the nation descended from Heth, the 2nd son of Canaan; once inhabitants of central Anatolia (modern Turkey), later in north Lebanon
"fear" "terror"

Perizzite = "belonging to a village"
inhabitant of the open country; a Perizzite, one of the Canaanitish tribes:—Perizzite.

(oh oh)
giants, Rephaim
old tribe of giants
in the sense of invigorating; a giant:—giant, Rapha, Rephaim(-s).

Gen 15:21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Amorite = "a sayer"
one of the peoples of east Canaan and beyond the Jordan, dispossessed by the Israelite incursion from Egypt
in the sense of publicity, i.e. prominence; thus, a mountaineer; an Emorite, one of the Canaanitish tribes:—Amorite.

Canaanite = see Cana "zealous"
a merchant, trader
by implication, a pedlar (the Canaanites standing for their neighbors the Ishmaelites, who conducted mercantile caravans):—Canaanite, merchant, trafficker.

Girgashite or Girgasite = "dwelling on a clayey soil"
descendants of Canaan and one of the nations living east of the sea of Galilee when the Israelites entered the promised land

Jebusite = "descendants of Jebus"
descendants of the 3rd son of Canaan who lived in or around the site of Jebus, the early name for Jerusalem
a place trodden down, as a threshing floor

wouldya look at all those trees in the garden... oh my..

Mar 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
Mar 8:23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mar 8:24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mar 8:25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.
Mar 8:26 And he sent him away to his house, saying, Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town.

Shhhh...

So we are in the garden of Eden and Abraham is the husbandman.
God took Abram from Ur the land of Babylon with it's idolatry and moon worship, spiritually dead.. land of (dust).
And Abram recieved righteousness along the way because he believed God. And God spoke to Abram.. breathed on him..
and gave him faith. And then put him in the land of Eden among the many tree peoples in the garden.
Now God sees he needs a help meet for him. One that will "help" him tend the garden and multiply that fruit.

Gen 16:1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.

This could get interesting...
I need another shovel..
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gen 16:1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.

Hagar = "flight"
Sarah's Egyptian slave girl, Abraham's concubine, Ishmael's mother
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Gen 16:2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

I wonder why Sarai didn't just pray to the Lord to open her womb, seeing she accused him of restraining her from bearing.
I don't think Sarai had any faith.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Sarai bare him no children.. she had no fruit...
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

What was Sarai thinking???
You know Sarai grew up in Babylon, they worshipped moon godesses of furtility.. and she had a maid that also was got in Egypt.
Now Sarai spent some time in Egypt under Pharaoh.. until he found out that Sarai was Abraham's wife. So she is surrounded with idolatry and gods and godesses.. totally pagan. Except Abram is her husband.. which is a blessing for her.
But now she sees all this stuff and land that Abram has and no one to leave it to. So she thinks in herself.. I got me a maid to do it for me.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

So if Abram is standing in the middle of the land that God has just promised as an inheritance, And it looks a lot like Eden from the description of rivers and trees.. trees are peoples and nations in it.. like in Revelation.. standing before the throne.. the waters.. only these are trees..
And there is A tree standing in the midst with them.... this is Hagar.. the fig tree.
So Sarai got this idea in her mind, that if Hagar produced the fruit for her, then the shear inheritance of goods and lands would make them all powerful and rulers over all the nations... I sit as a Queen... where is that??
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
hmm..
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Gen 16:2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
Gen 16:4 And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.

NLT: So Abram had sexual relations with Hagar, and she became pregnant. But when Hagar knew she was pregnant, she began to treat her mistress, Sarai, with contempt.

Gen 16:5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Gen 16:6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.

Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

contGen 16:7 And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
Gen 16:8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.
Gen 16:9 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
Gen 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
Gen 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

interesting...

cont.

 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gen 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Ishmael = "God will hear"
son of Abraham and Sarah's handmaid Hagar and the progenitor of the Arabian peoples

wild man: wild ass
in the secondary sense of running wild; the onager:—wild (ass).

Gen 16:13 And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?
NLT: Thereafter, Hagar used another name to refer to the LORD, who had spoken to her. She said, “You are the God who sees me.”[fn] She also said, “Have I truly seen the One who sees me?”

Gen 16:15 And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
Gen 16:16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Gen 17:2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

The covenant of circumcision..
cont.
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Act 7:8 And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

Gen 17:23 And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.
Gen 17:24 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
Gen 17:25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
Gen 17:26 In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son.
Gen 17:27 And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.

token...
Gen 9:8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
Gen 9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
Gen 9:12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
Gen 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen 9:14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
Gen 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
Gen 9:17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

My bow for your foreskin...

bow:
bow (for hunting, battle)
bowmen, archers
in the original sense (of H6983) of bending; a bow, for shooting (hence, figuratively, strength) or the iris:—× arch(-er), arrow, bow(-man, -shot).

What constellation is known as the Archer?
Sagittarius
As is the case with all of the Zodiac constellations, Sagittarius was recorded in the 2nd century by the Greek astronomer Ptolemy, and it is Latin for archer.

What are the major stars in the constellation Sagittarius?
The stars δ Sgr (Kaus Media), ε Sgr (Kaus Australis), ζ Sgr (Ascella), and φ Sgr form the body of the pot; λ Sgr (Kaus Borealis) is the point of the lid; γ2 Sgr (Alnasl) is the tip of the spout; and σ Sgr (Nunki) and τ Sgr the handle. These same stars originally formed the bow and arrow of Sagittarius.

The fire pot and the lamp:

Gen 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
NLT: After the sun went down and darkness fell, Abram saw a smoking firepot and a flaming torch pass between the halves of the carcasses

Look at the stars... look how they shine for you... and all the things you do.... and they was all yellow.

Sagittarius famously points its arrow at the heart of Scorpius, represented by the reddish star Antares, as the two constellations race around the sky.

Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Sagittarius is one of the prominent features of the summer skies in the northern hemisphere although in Europe north of the Pyrenees it drags very low along the horizon and can be difficult to see clearly. In Scotland and Scandinavia it cannot be seen at all. In southern Brazil, South Africa, and central Australia (30° south), Sagittarius passes directly overhead. It is hidden behind the Sun's glare from mid-November to mid-January and is the location of the Sun at the winter solstice (December 21). By March, Sagittarius is rising at midnight. In June, it achieves opposition and can be seen all night. The June full moon appears in Sagittarius.

Pray that your flight be not in the winter nor on the sabbath...

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

We were discussing circumcision...
oh yeah "tokens"

distractions.. distractions.
cont..
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gen 17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
Gen 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
Gen 17:17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

Abraham = "father of a multitude" or "chief of multitude"
friend of God and founder of Hebrew nation via God's elective covenant

Sarai = "princess"
from H8269; dominative; Sarai, the wife of Abraham:—Sarai.
prince, ruler, leader, chief, chieftain, official, captain
a head person (of any rank or class):—captain (that had rule), chief (captain), general, governor, keeper, lord,(-task-)master, prince(-ipal), ruler, steward.
sar; from H8323;
to be or act as prince, rule, contend, have power, prevail over, reign, govern
(Hithpael) to lord it over

Sarah shall her name be.

Sarah = "noblewoman"
saw-raw'; the same as H8282; Sarah, Abraham's wife:—Sarah.
princess, noblewoman, noble lady
saw-raw'; feminine of H8269; a mistress, i.e. female noble:—lady, princess, queen.
prince, ruler, leader, chief, chieftain, official, captain
from H8323; a head person (of any rank or class):—captain (that had rule), chief (captain), general, governor, keeper, lord,(-task-)master, prince(-ipal), ruler, steward.

Gen 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Interesting..
cont.
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gen 17:17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

I'm trying to figure out what is funny. You go back through the lineage of Abram and people were having sons and daughters of ripe old ages in their 100's and more. Maybe the laughing wasn't so much his age but hers? They don't mention the wives very often in the lineages, only when they are usually of a different nation. Why laugh if age is a common in your ancestry?
I think Abraham had doubts.. oh ye of little faith.. and yet still had the little enough to move mountains. Just a mustard seed even.. and it was all yellow.. look at the stars.. look how they shine for you..lala la la la la

Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

NLT So Abraham said to God, “May Ishmael live under your special blessing!”

Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen 17:22 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.

So we have us an appointed time.

In this same day, Abraham and Sarah receive their new names. Ishmael is blessed and he shall begat 12 Princes, and be fruitful and multiplied, great nation. But God's covenant will be with Isaac as an everlasting covenant and his seed after him. At an appointed time.
On this same day Abraham takes all the males in his house and baught, and circumcises them all Both Ishmael and Himself on this day.

The covenant of circumcision is one between God and Abraham.

Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

This is that covenant. Blessing for Ishmael and everlasting covenant with Isaac.

Ishmael = "God will hear"
Isaac = "he laughs"

I'm going to go out on a limb here (don't get your saws yet) and say this was on the 8th day, as all future circumcisions are on the 8th day of a new born.. born new.. new beginning.. Day 1. is also Day 8. on a calendar.

chapter 18.. next
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The works my Father do:

Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

Mamre = "strength" or "fatness"
an Amorite who allied himself with Abram
an oak grove on Mamre's land in Palestine where Abraham dwelt

a tent (as clearly conspicuous from a distance):—covering, (dwelling) (place), home, tabernacle, tent.
opening, doorway, entrance

heat of the day:
2Sa 4:5 And the sons of Rimmon the Beerothite, Rechab and Baanah, went, and came about the heat of the day to the house of Ishbosheth, who lay on a bed at noon.

Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
Gen 18:3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
Gen 18:4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
Gen 18:5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

Gen 18:6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
Gen 18:7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
Gen 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

I find that whenever Abraham lifts up his eyes... there is more to the story. Abraham, God said.. is a prophet.

Luk 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
Luk 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
Luk 15:13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
Luk 15:14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
Luk 15:15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
Luk 15:16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15: And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luk 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luk 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
Luk 15:26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
Luk 15:27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
Luk 15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
Luk 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
Luk 15:30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
Luk 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

next..
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gen 18:9 And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
Gen 18:10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
Gen 18:11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
Gen 18:12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
Gen 18:13 And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
Gen 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

First thing came to mind was, Adam, where art thou?
Where is Sarah thy wife? is this a faith question? Of course the Lord would know exactly where she was.. so the question is not a physical location but I believe rather a "spiritual" state of mind. Sarah had been in the tent preparing 3 cakes of fine meal. with or without hiding leaven in it... I don't know. Leaven is hypocricy..

Ready your arrows...

I'm working on this tent issue in my mind. I see Moses sitting in the door of the tent and the Lord is sitting in the tent on the mercy seat.
Now Abraham is in the door and Sarah is in the tent... making leavened bread .. maybe.. which is hypocritical..
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Gen 18:12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
Gen 18:13 And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?

So I can't see Sarah, but I can hear Sarah speaking in herself...

1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Gen 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

According to the time of life.


cont.
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
2Ki 4:8 And it fell on a day, that Elisha passed to Shunem, where was a great woman; and she constrained him to eat bread. And so it was, that as oft as he passed by, he turned in thither to eat bread.
2Ki 4:9 And she said unto her husband, Behold now, I perceive that this is an holy man of God, which passeth by us continually.
2Ki 4:10 Let us make a little chamber, I pray thee, on the wall; and let us set for him there a bed, and a table, and a stool, and a candlestick: and it shall be, when he cometh to us, that he shall turn in thither.
2Ki 4:11 And it fell on a day, that he came thither, and he turned into the chamber, and lay there.
2Ki 4:12 And he said to Gehazi his servant, Call this Shunammite. And when he had called her, she stood before him.
2Ki 4:13 And he said unto him, Say now unto her, Behold, thou hast been careful for us with all this care; what is to be done for thee? wouldest thou be spoken for to the king, or to the captain of the host? And she answered, I dwell among mine own people.
2Ki 4:14 And he said, What then is to be done for her? And Gehazi answered, Verily she hath no child, and her husband is old.
2Ki 4:15 And he said, Call her. And when he had called her, she stood in the door.
2Ki 4:16 And he said, About this season, according to the time of life, thou shalt embrace a son. And she said, Nay, my lord, thou man of God, do not lie unto thine handmaid.
2Ki 4:17 And the woman conceived, and bare a son at that season that Elisha had said unto her, according to the time of life.
2Ki 4:18 And when the child was grown, it fell on a day, that he went out to his father to the reapers.
2Ki 4:19 And he said unto his father, My head, my head. And he said to a lad, Carry him to his mother.
2Ki 4:20 And when he had taken him, and brought him to his mother, he sat on her knees till noon, and then died.
2Ki 4:21 And she went up, and laid him on the bed of the man of God, and shut the door upon him, and went out.
2Ki 4:22 And she called unto her husband, and said, Send me, I pray thee, one of the young men, and one of the asses, that I may run to the man of God, and come again.
2Ki 4:23 And he said, Wherefore wilt thou go to him to day? it is neither new moon, nor sabbath. And she said, It shall be well.
2Ki 4:24 Then she saddled an ass, and said to her servant, Drive, and go forward; slack not thy riding for me, except I bid thee.
2Ki 4:25 So she went and came unto the man of God to mount Carmel. And it came to pass, when the man of God saw her afar off, that he said to Gehazi his servant, Behold, yonder is that Shunammite:
2Ki 4:26 Run now, I pray thee, to meet her, and say unto her, Is it well with thee? is it well with thy husband? is it well with the child? And she answered, It is well.
2Ki 4:27 And when she came to the man of God to the hill, she caught him by the feet: but Gehazi came near to thrust her away. And the man of God said, Let her alone; for her soul is vexed within her: and the LORD hath hid it from me, and hath not told me.
2Ki 4:28 Then she said, Did I desire a son of my lord? did I not say, Do not deceive me?
2Ki 4:29 Then he said to Gehazi, Gird up thy loins, and take my staff in thine hand, and go thy way: if thou meet any man, salute him not; and if any salute thee, answer him not again: and lay my staff upon the face of the child.
2Ki 4:30 And the mother of the child said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. And he arose, and followed her.
2Ki 4:31 And Gehazi passed on before them, and laid the staff upon the face of the child; but there was neither voice, nor hearing. Wherefore he went again to meet him, and told him, saying, The child is not awaked.
2Ki 4:32 And when Elisha was come into the house, behold, the child was dead, and laid upon his bed.
2Ki 4:33 He went in therefore, and shut the door upon them twain, and prayed unto the LORD.
2Ki 4:34 And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and he stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm.
2Ki 4:35 Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro; and went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes.
2Ki 4:36 And he called Gehazi, and said, Call this Shunammite. So he called her. And when she was come in unto him, he said, Take up thy son.
2Ki 4:37 Then she went in, and fell at his feet, and bowed herself to the ground, and took up her son, and went out.

Shunammite = see Shunen "double resting place"

1Ki 2:13 And Adonijah the son of Haggith came to Bathsheba the mother of Solomon. And she said, Comest thou peaceably? And he said, Peaceably.
1Ki 2:14 He said moreover, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And she said, Say on.
1Ki 2:15 And he said, Thou knowest that the kingdom was mine, and that all Israel set their faces on me, that I should reign: howbeit the kingdom is turned about, and is become my brother's: for it was his from the LORD.
1Ki 2:16 And now I ask one petition of thee, deny me not. And she said unto him, Say on.
1Ki 2:17 And he said, Speak, I pray thee, unto Solomon the king, (for he will not say thee nay,) that he give me Abishag the Shunammite to wife.
1Ki 2:18 And Bathsheba said, Well; I will speak for thee unto the king.
1Ki 2:21 And she said, Let Abishag the Shunammite be given to Adonijah thy brother to wife.
1Ki 2:22 And king Solomon answered and said unto his mother, And why dost thou ask Abishag the Shunammite for Adonijah? ask for him the kingdom also; for he is mine elder brother; even for him, and for Abiathar the priest, and for Joab the son of Zeruiah.
1Ki 2:23 Then king Solomon sware by the LORD, saying, God do so to me, and more also, if Adonijah have not spoken this word against his own life.
1Ki 2:24 Now therefore, as the LORD liveth, which hath established me, and set me on the throne of David my father, and who hath made me an house, as he promised, Adonijah shall be put to death this day.
1Ki 2:25 And king Solomon sent by the hand of Benaiah the son of Jehoiada; and he fell upon him that he died.

2Ki 4:18 And when the child was grown, it fell on a day, that he went out to his father to the reapers.
2Ki 4:19 And he said unto his father, My head, my head. And he said to a lad, Carry him to his mother.
2Ki 4:20 And when he had taken him, and brought him to his mother, he sat on her knees till noon, and then died.

Shunammite = see Shunen "double resting place"

According to the time of life...
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gen 18:15 Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.

Pro 15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.
Pro 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

Gen 18:16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.

Sodom = "burning"
from an unused root meaning to scorch; burnt (i.e. volcanic or bituminous) district; Sedom, a place near the Dead Sea:—Sodom.

Eze 1:16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.
Eze 1:19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
Eze 1:20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
Eze 1:21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
Eze 3:13 I heard also the noise of the wings of the living creatures that touched one another, and the noise of the wheels over against them, and a noise of a great rushing.
Eze 10:2 And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight.

Gen 18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
Gen 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Gomorrah = "submersion"
the twin-city in evil with Sodom, both destroyed in judgment by God with fire from heaven
of iniquity (fig.)

Sodom and Gomorrah

cont.
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Deu 32:28 For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them.
Deu 32:29 O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!
Deu 32:30 How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?
Deu 32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
Deu 32:32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:
Deu 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.
Deu 32:34 Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures?
Deu 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
Deu 32:36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.
Deu 32:37 And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,
Deu 32:38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection.
Deu 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Deu 32:40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
Deu 32:41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
Deu 32:42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
Deu 32:43 Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.

Sodom and Gomorrah

cont.
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,166
9,725
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Isa 1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
Isa 1:3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
Isa 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Isa 1:5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
Isa 1:6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
Isa 1:7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
Isa 1:8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
Isa 1:9 Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
Isa 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
Isa 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
Isa 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
Isa 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
Isa 1:22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
Isa 1:23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.
Isa 1:24 Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:
Isa 1:25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
Isa 1:26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
Isa 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
Isa 1:29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
Isa 1:30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.
Isa 1:31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.

Mat 10:11And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
Mat 10:12And when ye come into an house, salute it.
Mat 10:13And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Mat 10:14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Mat 10:15Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mat 10:16Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Mat 10:17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
Mat 10:18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
Mat 10:19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

next: