Sarai and Abram?

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DPMartin

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When Sarai and Abram decided Abram should have a heir via the hand maiden Hagar did they act in faith, or was the act a lack of faith?
 
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Ziggy

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When Sarai and Abram decided Abram should have a heir via the hand maiden Hagar did they act in faith, or was the act a lack of faith?
I just went back and reread the full account.
God promised Abraham that through his seed would all nations be blessed.
It was Sarai who lacked faith and gave to Abraham, Hagar to wife.
When Hagar saw she through her son would inherit the promises given to Abraham, she despised Sarai.
Sarai told Abraham my fault is yours, and because she hates me, then you need to fix this.
Abraham told Sarai this is your "slavegirl" that you picked up in Egypt on our tour of the world. Do it yourself.
And so Sarai confronted Hagar to her face and Hagar fled into the wilderness.

While she was crying an Angel appeared and told her that her child would also be blessed with multitudes.
Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Because the blessing was to Abraham and his seed. It was Abraham seed with Hagar that is after the flesh, or worldly.
Then the Angel appeared to Sarai to confirm the promise to Abraham, but she laughed.. and then lied about laughing..
nevertheless God kept his promise to Abraham. And so Sarai bore Isaac which is Abraham's seed through the spirit of faith.
Not that Abraham ever lost his faith, but he listened to his wife. And because of this we have the new covenant, which is both of Abraham seed, joined together as one body, one church, one baptism, one spirit, one Lord... through the faith of Abraham, which is the faith of Jesus given to Abraham.. which hath appeared in these last days....

So Adam wasn't deceived, but the woman being deceived was in transgression.

Cain = Wildman...

Interesting...

That's how I hear it..
Thank You
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DNB

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When Sarai and Abram decided Abram should have a heir via the hand maiden Hagar did they act in faith, or was the act a lack of faith?
I would think that is was derived from a lack of faith. According to the following account, out of Sarai's own words, she gives us the grounds as to why she gave Hagar to her husband - she became impatient with the promise from God.

Genesis 16:1-4
16:1. Now Sarai, Abram's wife had borne him no children, and she had an Egyptian maid whose name was Hagar. 2. So Sarai said to Abram, "Now behold, the LORD has prevented me from bearing children. Please go in to my maid; perhaps I will obtain children through her." And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai. 3. After Abram had lived ten years in the land of Canaan, Abram's wife Sarai took Hagar the Egyptian, her maid, and gave her to her husband Abram as his wife. 4. He went in to Hagar, and she conceived; and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her sight.

Now, although the original promise does not stipulate as to which woman will be the mother to Abram's promised descendants, can we assume that it was implied that it would be his wife, Sarai?

Genesis 15:1-5
15:1. After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, "Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great." 2. Abram said, "O Lord GOD, what will You give me, since I am childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?" 3. And Abram said, "Since You have given no offspring to me, one born in my house is my heir." 4. Then behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This man will not be your heir; but one who will come forth from your own body, he shall be your heir." 5. And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
 

DPMartin

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I just went back and reread the full account.
God promised Abraham that through his seed would all nations be blessed.
It was Sarai who lacked faith and gave to Abraham, Hagar to wife.
When Hagar saw she through her son would inherit the promises given to Abraham, she despised Sarai.
Sarai told Abraham my fault is yours, and because she hates me, then you need to fix this.
Abraham told Sarai this is your "slavegirl" that you picked up in Egypt on our tour of the world. Do it yourself.
And so Sarai confronted Hagar to her face and Hagar fled into the wilderness.

While she was crying an Angel appeared and told her that her child would also be blessed with multitudes.
Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Because the blessing was to Abraham and his seed. It was Abraham seed with Hagar that is after the flesh, or worldly.
Then the Angel appeared to Sarai to confirm the promise to Abraham, but she laughed.. and then lied about laughing..
nevertheless God kept his promise to Abraham. And so Sarai bore Isaac which is Abraham's seed through the spirit of faith.
Not that Abraham ever lost his faith, but he listened to his wife. And because of this we have the new covenant, which is both of Abraham seed, joined together as one body, one church, one baptism, one spirit, one Lord... through the faith of Abraham, which is the faith of Jesus given to Abraham.. which hath appeared in these last days....

So Adam wasn't deceived, but the woman being deceived was in transgression.

Cain = Wildman...

Interesting...

That's how I hear it..
Thank You
Hugs


Ok then, the Lord tells Abram that he shall have an heir of his own but there’s no mention of Sarah or at that time Sarai when the Lord tells Abram this:

Gen 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.



its not until the Lord changes her name to Sarah does the Lord state the Sarah will have child that will be Abraham’s heir

Gen 17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
Gen 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
Gen 17:17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.



Therefore, how is it that ether one of the two could have acted in the lack of faith when the Lord didn’t stipulate the Sarai now Sarah would be the one to have the heir apparent?
 

DPMartin

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I would think that is was derived from a lack of faith. According to the following account, out of Sarai's own words, she gives us the grounds as to why she gave Hagar to her husband - she became impatient with the promise from God.

Genesis 16:1-4
16:1. Now Sarai, Abram's wife had borne him no children, and she had an Egyptian maid whose name was Hagar. 2. So Sarai said to Abram, "Now behold, the LORD has prevented me from bearing children. Please go in to my maid; perhaps I will obtain children through her." And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai. 3. After Abram had lived ten years in the land of Canaan, Abram's wife Sarai took Hagar the Egyptian, her maid, and gave her to her husband Abram as his wife. 4. He went in to Hagar, and she conceived; and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her sight.

Now, although the original promise does not stipulate as to which woman will be the mother to Abram's promised descendants, can we assume that it was implied that it would be his wife, Sarai?

Genesis 15:1-5
15:1. After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, "Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great." 2. Abram said, "O Lord GOD, what will You give me, since I am childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?" 3. And Abram said, "Since You have given no offspring to me, one born in my house is my heir." 4. Then behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This man will not be your heir; but one who will come forth from your own body, he shall be your heir." 5. And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."


I will give you the same answer


Ok then, the Lord tells Abram that he shall have an heir of his own but there’s no mention of Sarah or at that time Sarai when the Lord tells Abram this:

Gen 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

Now its not until the Lord changes her name to Sarah does the Lord state the Sarah will have child that will be Abraham’s heir

Gen 17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
Gen 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
Gen 17:17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.



Therefore, how is it that ether one of the two could have acted in the lack of faith when the Lord didn’t stipulate the Sarai now Sarah would be the one to have the heir apparent?
 

Ziggy

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Gen 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Watch this:

Gen 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
 

DPMartin

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Watch this:

Gen 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

so where is the reason that Abram and Sarai should understand that Sarai is the one to have the child of promise when that statement in 17:16 isn't said until after Hagar has her child Ishmael? maybe you should watch the scriptures. Gen 3:15 is a prophecy if you will of Christ not to Sarai.
 

Ziggy

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so where is the reason that Abram and Sarai should understand that Sarai is the one to have the child of promise when that statement in 17:16 isn't said until after Hagar has her child Ishmael? maybe you should watch the scriptures. Gen 3:15 is a prophecy if you will of Christ not to Sarai.
I'm working on a study right now called Isaac and Ishmael or vice versa.. anywho
You may find it absolutely horrid and abominable what I'm writing.
It's all about who what where when why Abram and Sarai are on this journey.
And I only just come to Ismael and the covenant of circumcision..
But it's not your typical sunday school sermon.. no sir..
But it is what it is.
You be surprised how mauch Adam and Eve play a role with Abraham and Sarah.
If you go there to just criticize please at least wait until after Isaac is born..
I haven't got there yet.. close.. but I keep getting distracted by rainbows and stars..lol

Thank You
:)
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