What wisdom is this?

Ziggy said:

No..
I think Paul was having a conflict with the system that was and the new way being created.
Trying to explain the old belief system under the rulers of THAT day.
Those High Priests and rulers that was sitting in Moses seat.
And Paul was trying to seperate the two.
It's not that I don't understand what he taught..
it was the struggle he had with not only trying to explain the transition, but he had a battle raging in his own mind.
From what he had been brought up on as milk.. was now some sour curdled milk.
Maybe it was the way he had to overcome and grow from the man that was left behind to die.
Sometimes when you think that old man is dead, he can rise up again and take you by surprise.
I see this too in Paul, in myself, in the world.
But Paul is an overcomer. He ran the race well. He didn't give up, but he could have.
And if you only read the first post, you won't understand the whole journey.
I been struggling with this for years. I had to write it out to see it.
And I probably offended a lot of people by doing so, in which I am sorry.
However,.. it brought me to the conclusion I needed to find peace with Paul.

That guy by the grace of God, was called, sanctified, and sent through the pit of hell.
That's the cross we all need to carry..
I'm just honoured that Paul had the patience and the mercy to walk with me.
And I'm greatful the Jesus sent me Paul so I could see my own dilemma with my self.

Thank You Truther!
Hugs

Click to expand...

Ziggy said:

He had a lot of power and influence at the top.
Our world isn't so different today if you live in the right bubble.
I live a simple peasant life. I don't have any circles, any connections.
When you are in the Elite class that's a whole different bubble.
He has the top notch Professor, he rubbed elbows with the High Priests and rulers.
And to have to leave that life behind and defend the very one's your mission was to destroy..
For some of us the transition is a lot less complicated.

You know, God chose Solomon, David's son, to sit on David's throne.
God gave Solomon everything he desired. All he had to do was walk with God.
And for awhile he did. And then the women.. 700 wives and 300 concubines..I can't even..
And little by little they drew him away from God into total idolatry.

Paul is just the opposite. He was living in Idolatry, meaning his god was not the True God.
It was the Establishment of the day. And the Lord took him out of Babylon and set him on that strait and narrow path.
He was Solomon in all his wisdom in reverse.
I don't believe Paul had any wives.. ?
No distractions.
Trying to help the Lord raise a disfunctional family..lol

I feel bad that I saw what I saw. I could delete the OP..
but that's what led me to accept the things I cannot see.
The inner struggle that we all have to overcome, no matter how high or how low on the totem pole.
Empathy.
Thank You
HUGS

Click to expand...

Ziggy said:

He had a lot of power and influence at the top.
Our world isn't so different today if you live in the right bubble.
I live a simple peasant life. I don't have any circles, any connections.
When you are in the Elite class that's a whole different bubble.
He has the top notch Professor, he rubbed elbows with the High Priests and rulers.
And to have to leave that life behind and defend the very one's your mission was to destroy..
For some of us the transition is a lot less complicated.

You know, God chose Solomon, David's son, to sit on David's throne.
God gave Solomon everything he desired. All he had to do was walk with God.
And for awhile he did. And then the women.. 700 wives and 300 concubines..I can't even..
And little by little they drew him away from God into total idolatry.

Paul is just the opposite. He was living in Idolatry, meaning his god was not the True God.
It was the Establishment of the day. And the Lord took him out of Babylon and set him on that strait and narrow path.
He was Solomon in all his wisdom in reverse.
I don't believe Paul had any wives.. ?
No distractions.
Trying to help the Lord raise a disfunctional family..lol

I feel bad that I saw what I saw. I could delete the OP..
but that's what led me to accept the things I cannot see.
The inner struggle that we all have to overcome, no matter how high or how low on the totem pole.
Empathy.
Thank You
HUGS

Click to expand...

Ziggy said:

I like people.
I thought I didn't like people most my life. I never took to them, they didn't take to me. I was kind of an outcast.
I kept all my thoughts and feelings to myself and it would eat me up. I got questions, so many questions. But no answers.
I found a Forum a long time ago. I don't know why God led me there.
I had a dream.. I was kind of inbetween wakey/sleepy.. these images dominated everything.
I saw (this hurts) .. I saw abortions up front and personal as if I was in the wombs experiencing everything...
Thousands and thousands..... over and over....
I barely made it to the bathroom. I called in sick to work for 3 days.. then I just quit. I couldn't compose myself.
So I went on the internet looking for a distraction, anything, anything.. to make me see something else.

There was a forum and it's gone now. I don't know where they all went perhaps scattered here and there.
But I started posting. Took me a long time to make my first post. I was afraid I would say something wrong.
They wouldn't like me.. I would be an outcast even on the internet.
People would actually debate me and we would ask questions and little by little some of those questions I had in myself, I was able to share. And other people had questions too. And everyone was sharing with everyone, good and bad.. didn't matter, people were sharing and talking.

The more I posted the more open I became to accepting criticism of myself. I was very defensive at first. I think we are always mostly on defence, wanting to protect the reason why we think the way we do.
And I kept coming up against Paul, and others questioned Paul. I wasn't the only one seeing and questioning, what about Paul??
But you couldn't post questions because that's auto-attack mode, no matter what. Boom.. don't question authority. move along nothing to see here.

This Forum, the people here, all of you...
The Love and charity and goodness of all your hearts
I can feel that.
Even the ones that seem contentuous are here for the iron to sharpen the iron.
It makes you dig deeper, look harder, explore more.
It teaches you patience, kindness, grace, mercy..
Makes the fruit sweeter and it's good medicine.
Blessings.. each and every one of you.

I am learning. I am growing. I make mistakes. I get frustrated. I get indignant. I get understanding, I get patience.
I learn Empathy, Compassion, Mercy, and Grace.
And I am honored and thankful for everyone's patience and grace with me.

And so after having been here for a short time, I felt I found a safe place where I could post and put it in writing, what exactly are the issues that I'm having with Paul? Why does he rub me the wrong way? I had to literally write it and not keep it inside, because the answers are in front of my face. not tucked away in some hidden part of my brain. festering..
I knew before I began it would be offensive to some or even many.
But after being here.. I knew the atmosphere..
There is so much love and forgiveness and patience in this forum.
Maybe some don't see it or feel it like I do, but it's the truth.
And I knew that even if I did cause offence, that those offended had more forgiveness in their hearts, than the offence itself.

I am grateful for this sanctuary among so many friends.
Even though I don't say it much...
I love you all.
And
Thank You
Hugs

Click to expand...

VictoryinJesus said:

wouldn’t be offended if that were the case. But so far you haven’t shared why you think this unless I’ve missed it. why would Satan though ask Saul why he persecuted him? And say: I am He which you persecute?

Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Click to expand...

Ziggy said:

Thank You Nancy,
Knowing what I know now... even though it was a journey to get here.. I would restart the whole thread over from the beginning.
But in the beginning I was really struggling with Paul. I had to walk that walk to get to journey's end.
Couple things here though..
Saul was on a mission. He was going to get the authority to wipe out every christian he could find.
At first I thought Saul used the "light" as a way to deceive the members of the church to let him in.
He had just witnessed Stephen saying,
Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

And from my vantage point.. I saw Saul using this declaration as a proof that he had been called.
I didn't even know if he truly saw a light, or was he just lying to gain access, the wolf inside the hen house.
That's what I saw.. and it really bugged me.
I see what's happening today and we are watching real time play out in our government right in front of our eyes.
But this had been bothering me for years.

Another place where Paul says that they have to toss people out for Satan to destroy the flesh.. looking..
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Well I figured if fornication is bad.. what about murdering the whole church??
So was Saul handed over to Satan to destroy his flesh so his spirit could be saved??

This is why I called it "my" dilemma.. I was trying chew some meat and ran into some tough grizzle.
Maybe Satan is used against Satan in order so that kingdom won't stand.. seeing it is divided against itself..
fighting fire with fire so they say..

Because unless Saul was hogtied and bound and blinded, I don't know if he would have ever freely come to the light.

I see the Lord work in Paul the same way we all have to be "sifted" .. tossing out the bad and keeping the good.
And Jesus told Peter that Satan wanted to sift him..so...
I truly wasn't be "careless" .. I was sincerely perplexed. And I needed to write it out, walk it through, to see the conclusion.

And maybe someday, someone else wrestling with the same dilemma I had, can travel the road I did, and see what I saw, and come to the same conclusion I did.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Amen
Thank You Nancy
HUGS

Click to expand...

Hi Ziggy,
It's a wonderful thing when Christians ask questions and share views, and for sure, who knows who we might meet down the line who might be struggling with the same issue. I give you kudos sister.

As far as Paul not being handed over to Satan to destroy his flesh, Paul was not yet a part of the Church when he did those things. He really thought he was fighting for God! Until...he was struck blind by Christ on the road to Damascus.
You are not the first one to broach this subject on here but you have the ability to discuss and not argue
There have been thoughts placed in my mind that made me question the very same thing you are. Folks call them Anti -Pauline, lol.

Ziggy said:

What I find difficult for me is, trying to place myself in the time period that the stories are in.
Each place and time is a different generation. different cultures, different governments.
And I'm no historian. All I know is this 21st century I've walked in. A thousand years from now they won't see it like I see it.
It will just be another story. Flat screen in black and white. No depth, no color.
You can open a book and it says in the days of King whoever... there was a girl/guy... and this happened.
That's the lesson. But you start looking at the names of the places and the names of the tribes and what they mean,
then it starts taking on another shape. But it's still not in 3D.
It's so easy to say I would of, could of, should of done it this way or not. But your not walking in those shoes at that time.
You hear people say all the time.. what would Jesus do? My question is, what would I do? and see if it aligns with what Jesus would do.

And the Lord don't just put black and white stories in the bible. Some make you say, why did they do that?
Why did Jacob's mother tell him to put on rough cloth and go in and decieve his Father Isaac. That was wrong.
You shouldn't lie. Why didn't he just give his brother some food? that was greedy or uncharitable.
They make you weigh the matter in your own heart and mind. I think it's supposed to do that.

There are good guys and bad guys. Some are really hard to tell which side they're really are on.
That's where my shovels come in handy and I go digging.

We live in a hard world. I mean it's beautiful, we have so much to be thankful for. The sights, the sounds, the smells.
They can go either way though. Not everything that looks like a rose, smells like a rose.
Not all things that look good, are good for you, or bad are really bad, it's just we don't like the medicine.

Empathy was a gift I received a long time ago before I was a teenager. I had "friends" so called, that I would go to school with.
And some would come in sad or mad. And I would wonder why? What is going on in your world that's different from mine?
Sometimes I would ask, if they let you. Most kids don't like to talk about things in their family. Afraid they're parents will know your talking about things your not supposed to share outside your home. My home was like that. My mom would always say, whatever happens in this house, stays in this house. We don't need people gossipping about our dirty laundry. We had some. Like every has some. Some more than others.

But when they did talk I would listen. I would feel bad for them. Nothing I could do but listen. And I learned not everybody grew up in the same kind of family I did.

When I was around 7 there was a girl in school who was getting picked on and she wanted to go home. So I walked her home. When I got home, my mom was mad. The school called and said I'd left without saying why.. well yeah, they wouldn't of let me walk her home otherwise..
Seemed reasonable to me at the time. Another girl, her mom used to beat her, and she wanted to run away from home. So I went with her.
I didn't know where we were going. We were about 11 or so. But I figure she be safer if she didn't go alone.
We stayed with another friend who's parents were never there, for about 3 days. Then we decided to go home.
She got beat and I got grounded. But both our parents were glad we were home.
But these "friendships" never lasted. They just like one night stands in my life. Never had a best friend except my mom.

Funny this world is. Hard too. Always trying to play the devil's advocate, looking at both sides of the coin.

"God has the AT, but who already has all that God has? When and where is the end of the Highway of Holiness for me, for you or for that other fellow? "

I don't think there is an end. I think we just keep burning brighter and brighter or for some the candle flickers out.

I like to keep the study fun and interesting.. I come back and see things I missed, or made a mistake on.
I learn from my own studies. And this one... was a whopper. I learned a lot.
Sometimes you just have to be willing to walk in someone else's shoes.
That's hard to do.

Thank You armadeus
HUGS

Click to expand...

Yeah, good questions. I've had them before too. Still do to a certain extent like when God told Abraham and Sarah they would conceive...Sarah laughed, God heard...then, since they were not really believing it at their age, then Sarah sends Abraham into Hagar's tent to have relations. To me, that shows a lack of faith and belief that God would do as He said He would. I always did feel bad for Hagar and Ishmael, just did not seem the right thing to do, just send them into the wilderness like that. But, God has His reasons.

Surprised, you never had a best friend? Now, that seems cray cray as, your personality jumps off the page, you seem like you would be a ball to hang with. I love humor

Ziggy said:

Shh don't tell nobody,
I'm working on a thread called Ishmael and Isaac or vice versa.. forget.. anywho..

This is turning into some cray cray as you say..
It's got Adam and Eve written all over it.

You know they both laughed.. Abraham thought he was too old, but he still believed.
Sarai had no faith.. but was covered by her husbands/brothers faith..
Oh it's getting interesting lol

Probably gonna raise some irkiness somewhere.. aw well.. LOL
No matter what you do, ...

LOL
HUGS
Thank You

Click to expand...

Well, someone's gotta shake things up around here! lol.
So, why did Abe listen to his wife and go into Hagar's tent? Did he not have the faith yet? Maybe not, but he sure did by the time Isaac was born! Amen for that. Will be interesting to read your new study.

Ziggy said:

Why did Adam eat the fruit?

who was in charge? it's all in the name...
So interesting..
Somebody will probably try to shoot me before I'm done though..
lol
that's ok I got my armour of God prepared

You ever go through the OT and say to yourself, that's not the God I know?
But you see this Angel of the Lord and say, hey.. that's my guy...

When the bible says there is a war in heaven going on.... believe it.
forget shovels, you need toothpicks to get in the nitty gritty..
and I tell you what..
If I was back in the days of Martin Luther and Joan of Ark...
they probably fry me slay me and still eat me alive..

I see what I see.. God puts it in my heart and mind, I just go where he shows me.
If I'm wrong and I see it.. I will come back and say OOPS... I messed up.
Like with Paul..

fun stuff indeed..
but real serious at the same time..
But in the end.. it all leads to God.. no matter how the road is twisted.
Amen

Click to expand...

Ziggy said:

What I find difficult for me is, trying to place myself in the time period that the stories are in.
Each place and time is a different generation. different cultures, different governments.
And I'm no historian. All I know is this 21st century I've walked in. A thousand years from now they won't see it like I see it.

Click to expand...

You hear people say all the time.. what would Jesus do? My question is, what would I do? and see if it aligns with what Jesus would do.

And the Lord don't just put black and white stories in the bible. Some make you say, why did they do that?
Why did Jacob's mother tell him to put on rough cloth and go in and decieve his Father Isaac. That was wrong.
You shouldn't lie. Why didn't he just give his brother some food? that was greedy or uncharitable.
They make you weigh the matter in your own heart and mind. I think it's supposed to do that.

There are good guys and bad guys. Some are really hard to tell which side they're really are on.
That's where my shovels come in handy and I go digging.

We live in a hard world. I mean it's beautiful, we have so much to be thankful for. The sights, the sounds, the smells.
They can go either way though. Not everything that looks like a rose, smells like a rose.

Click to expand...