Those who deny Eternal Security

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Grailhunter

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Not sure as to what you mean by the question. Can you elaborate , thanks !

Well, the thread, eternal security.
How can a Christian lose his or her salvation?
How can a Christian go to Hell?
Christians sin and Christian can get forgiveness....then there is Judgement Day...
Can we expect to meet Hitler in Heaven? Could it be possible?
Like I said I do not believe OSAS but what can prevent a Christian from going to Heaven.
Just like a lot of Jews, Peter did about everything he could to curse himself...but I expect to see him in Heaven.
So what did he not do that would have prevented him from going to heaven...it is all hypothetical of course.
 

justbyfaith

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16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

That is from a watered down translation. The verse actually says, "Whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life."

John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

Jesus knows them, whom He promises eternal security to in the above passage.

If someone is practicing iniquity, Jesus will say to them on the final day, I never knew you (unless they repent and give their hearts to Christ)...Matthew 7:23.

Those who can be defined as workers of iniquity will be cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42)

That speaks volumes about you hiding behind your computer screen.

What would you do to him if he weren't "hiding behind his computer screen"?

My wife, children, grandchildren are saved, friends, family, siblings etc...

Not if you are believing mormonism along with them.

(for I have reason to believe that you are a closet mormon).

You can put this rumour to rest right now by telling us that you are not a mormon in any sense of the word.

Being born from above, sealed by the Holy Spirit is eternal. If we are born again and somehow could lose our Salvation by our acts of sin, then it is like saying God made a mistake - shouldn't have saved us. Why would God give us a gift (to those who aren't worthy and could not earn it and then continue to fall , stumble and backslide) and then take it away?

Of course if a man is truly born again he becomes a new creature in Christ; old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new! (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)). The old is the sinful lifestyle that we used to live; the new is the holy life that we now live in Christ; or which Christ lives in us and through us (Galatians 2:20).

Iow, our salvation has within it the aspect of a changed life. If we stop walking according to a changed life, do we then still have salvation? Chances are we never had it in the first place.

The confusing part is the fact that we have two natures still, the cleansed spiritual nature, a special sanctified part of us where the Holy Spirit dwells and then we have the other nature, our flesh.

Actually, you ought to take a wild look at Ephesians 5:30-32 (kjv) in comparison to 1 John 3:5.

And note that it is a biblical hermeneutic to compare scripture with scripture (1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv)).

. It is true, whoever is born of God does not commit sin and cannot sin. And yet we are sinners. That is a whopper to get your head around. Then I met someone who said, it is not sin unto spiritual death, it is in our flesh nature where sin dwells and that will die - actually has died. Our spirit is dead to sin.

This reeks of gnosticism; a teaching which says that what we do in the flesh doesn't matter because our real self isn't our body but our spirit.

There is just too many scriptures warning Christians of Hell and too many sins listed that indicate the sins that will prevent you from inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven, for OSAS to be true.

However, the same scriptures do not deny the reality of POTS.

Who is the Lord ?

Pro 30:7, Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die:
Pro 30:8, Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
Pro 30:9, Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.


Christians sin

Not the born again type (1 John 3:5-9)
 

CharismaticLady

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I don't see it that way. I don't see how Romans 14 can apply to Paul's correction of Peter. Peter freely ate with Gentiles when there were no Jews present, but when the contingent of Jews came from Jerusalem, Peter chose to eat with them turning his back on the Gentiles. This was because the Jews from Jerusalem would not eat with the Gentiles and Peter sided with them. Unless Paul made it an issue, the church would have continued to be divided between Jewish and Gentile believers.

Paul did not do the same. Yes, he did say that when he was with Jews he behaved like a Jew, and with Gentiles behaved like a Gentile in terms of his attitude to law and custom. But when Jewish and Gentile believers were together, he would have insisted they all eat together, because he saw that they were no longer Jew or Gentile but believers in Christ. But Peter still had the issue of seeing Jewish and Gentile believers as being separate, and Paul felt the need to correct him in front of the Jewish and Gentile believers, so that it made very clear to all where Paul stood concerning Jews and Gentiles. If Paul had not have done that, he might have given the impression that he was the same as Peter, and might have lost the confidence of the Gentiles to whom he was sent with the gospel by the Holy Spirit.

Yes, that's how most people see it, but I don't. I think there is more to it, and when I hear gossip, I ALWAYS go to the person being talked about and get their side. I just can't do that here, so I'm not going to accept gossip.
 

Paul Christensen

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Yes, that's how most people see it, but I don't. I think there is more to it, and when I hear gossip, I ALWAYS go to the person being talked about and get their side. I just can't do that here, so I'm not going to accept gossip.
I know this is a bit off topic, but this is up your alley. I dreamed this morning that I was with the British actor Rowan Atkinson on a bus full of Jehovah's Witnesses. Try and interpret that one! :)
 

ChristisGod

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I know this is a bit off topic, but this is up your alley. I dreamed this morning that I was with the British actor Rowan Atkinson on a bus full of Jehovah's Witnesses. Try and interpret that one! :)
I just had my packages of popcorn delivered. I'll get the popcorn machine fired up this should be an interesting interpretation from one who has all the gifts.............. :)
 

charity

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So you interpret those scriptures as substantiating OSAS?
'But this man, because He continueth ever,
hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost
that come unto God by Him,
seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them.'

(Hebrews 7:24)

Hello @BarneyFife,

Saved to the uttermost! by Christ Jesus my Intercessor.

Praise God!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Nancy

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Have a HUGE problem to solve when it comes to the Apostle and leader of the Church Peter.

1- he denied Jesus 3 times
2- he ran from those who said he knew Jesus denying his relationship with Jesus
3- he lived a hypocritical life with the Jews and Gentiles after Pentecost
4- Paul confronts him to his face for being a hypocrite
5- Peter was a stumbling block for the weaker brother Barnabas and caused him to fall into sin as a hypocrite
6- Peter forced the gentiles with him to participate in his hypocrisy

See Galatians 2 for the details.

So according to their heretical teaching the Apostle Peter was not saved, lost his salvation and if he died was going to hell before Paul confronted Him with his sin.

hope this helps !!!

Hey Chris, it seems that many are not seeing your point. :rolleyes:
 

charity

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Hey Chris, it seems that many are not seeing your point. :rolleyes:
Hi @Nancy

Catch phrases and abbreviations used by man can mean different things to different people. I prefer to say what I believe regarding a related Scripture, than take up a polarized position in a discussion that has a label attached to it to which people are attracted or repelled according to their understanding of what the label means.

* If God has said it, I believe it, it is as simple as that.

God says I am complete in Christ - I believe it.
God says He will save to the uttermost all who come to God by Him - I believe it.
God says He has accepted me in the Beloved - I believe it.
God says I have been made meet to partake of the inheritance of the saints in light - I believe it.

* The list can go on and on, and I would acknowledge each one with the same affirmative response.
* What is uncertain about the words, 'complete', 'uttermost', 'accepted' or 'made meet' ?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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CharismaticLady

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Its to bad this one passage below from Jesus dismantles your "theory".

Jesus below has no conditions and He gives them Eternal Life and nothing or no one can remove them from His or the Fathers hands.

John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

end of discussion with your " conditional , situational, incidental and temporal life " false teaching.

Scripture calls it ETERANAL- EVERLASTING- NEVER ENDING LIFE for a good reason.

hope this helps !!!

How do you know that you will endure to the end, just because you think you believe now? So did these.

John 6:
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.” 66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Of course, Jesus talks about false apostles and miracle-workers who prophesy, cast out demons and do mighty works to deceive people away from the true gospel of Christ.

May I see that scripture where Jesus specifies that false apostles will cast out demons? If they do it in Jesus name the demons won't listen to them if they don't actually believe in Jesus. They have no authority. Acts of the Apostles 19:13-16
 

Paul Christensen

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How do you know that you will endure to the end, just because you think you believe now? So did these.

John 6:
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.” 66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
Very much like modern times. When there are the free lunches, guaranteed healing and the happy, happy, clap, clap, the crowds come. But a pastor who stands for and preaches the gospel in his church, he is lucky to get as many as 200 people, often a lot less. We have to be suspicious of a form of godliness that attracts crowds and fills up mega-churches and baseball stadiums. The words of eternal life from Jesus which involve identifying with His death, and the need to take up one's cross to follow Jesus, does not draw the crowds. The way to empty out a mega-church is to preach the true gospel of Christ.

I remember the story about a church in Communist Russia which was quite large. The main doors crashed open and several soldiers stormed in. The military leader said, "All those who don't want to be shot, leave now!" Most of the congregation ran out the door. The soldiers said to the few who were left, "Ah! Now we can fellowship with real Christians who are prepared to die for their faith!" I just wonder if the same thing happened in any of our mega-churches, how many members would be left after those who were not prepared to die for Christ had ran out of the place? Bears thinking about...
 

ChristisGod

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Of course, Jesus talks about false apostles and miracle-workers who prophesy, cast out demons and do mighty works to deceive people away from the true gospel of Christ. We see this today where there are big-name men whom people "hero-worship" and acclaim them greater than Christ Himself.

I think we will get some surprises when it comes to the judgment, because some whom we thought were great in the church, might not be anywhere near, while those whom we never knew about might be viewed as the greater believers and servants in God's sight.

Ditto