The Fourth beast of Revelation

David H. said:

In the Book of Revelation, there are three "beasts" which are described, making the "unholy trinity". The Dragon, the Beast, and the False prophet.
What Most Prophecy scholars and novices miss is that there is a fourth beast as well, One that first appears at the fifth Trumpet, and Only rises to Power for a short while with ten world Kings to execute judgment upon the harlot of Babylon. That's right, the beast of revelation 17 that harlot comes riding out on is the Fourth beast of end times. Often mistaken as the first beast, this latter beast has a different origin, He ascends from the bottomless pit, while the first beast rises from the sea. This fourth beast has different attributes than the first beast and initially has no power (Crowns) which are later given to Him for 1 Hour to make war on the harlot according to the will of God.

What Most prophecy scholars do is combine the beast of rev. 13 with the beast of Rev. 17 and try to identify the beast in modern times based on this misunderstanding. So You have theories of who the eight kings are and the identity of the first beast based on the descriptives found in Revelation 17.

The Point of this post is to separate these two beasts, and introduce you to the "destroyer" Azazel, the head of the fallen Angels who has been locked in chains in the bottomless Pit. He is Not Satan, for the dragon is Satan, He is not the first Beast (Antichrist) who is a man empowered by Satan, Nor is he the False Prophet who is also a man empowered by Satan. The first beast makes war on the saints and overcomes them, while the this fourth beast Makes war with the Lamb and the saints, and the Lamb and the saints are victorious. For this fourth beast rules after the faithful and the saints are with the LORD and His Army.

Thoughts, and questions welcome.

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David, Apollyon is the angel released from the bottomless pit who is king over the flesh tormenting locust. He is said to be an angel - not a beast in Revelation.

The beast in Revelation 17:11 is of the 7 kings in Revelation 17:10 - specifically king 7, who when he comes, is killed, and continues as the beast, king 8. The 8 kings are a series of kings of the Judio-Claudian family.

Here is a illustration I made of the beast in Revelation 13, coming out of the sea. As a person, king 7, who becomes king 8, and is represented by the prominent head (lion's) having the blasphemous mouth of Revelation 13:5.

Bobby Jo said:

Don't you have anything better to do than MISREPRESENT SCRIPTURE?!?

Pony up. Tell us what each of the ATTRIBUTES represent IN SPECIFIC DETAIL:

• Who/What are the SEVEN Heads
• Which of the SEVEN Heads is "mortally wounded"
• Who/What are the TEN Horns
• Why Rev. 12 says SEVEN Diadems, but Rev. 13 says TEN Diadems
• Why the Lion is the MOUTH
• Why the Leopard (actually a TIGER) is the BODY
• Why the Bear is the FEET
• Who/What is the BEAST
• Who/What is the False Prophet
• Who/What is the IMAGE of the beast

So stop the dancing around waving your arms as though you have something to say. Either SUBSTANTIATE your "expertise" or go away.

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The seven heads are seven sequential kings of the fourth empire, the Roman Empire.

They are:
Julius Caesar
Augustus Caesar
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius

Nero - was the last of the historic Julio-Claudians.

The little horn person will be king 7. And after he is killed and comes back to life - king 8.



Which of the SEVEN Heads is "mortally wounded"

King 7. Ezekiel 28:1-10 indicates why.


Who/What are the TEN Horns

Ten concurrent kings (leaders) of the end times Roman empire the EU in its final form.

Why Rev. 12 says SEVEN Diadems, but Rev. 13 says TEN Diadem

Revelation 12 has the 7 year in it. (the first five verses are historic, to identify the woman in the rest of the chapter as Israel). At the beginning of the 7 years, king 7, the little horn person will have come to power, fulfilling the prophecy of the 7 kings (the 7 heads) of Revelation 17:10. In Revelation 13, the 7 heads do not have crowns because king 7 will have been killed - ending the prophecy of the 7 kings (the 7 heads).

In Revelation 13, the ten horns have crowns because the person will have become the beast and the ten kings rule with the beast.

• Why the Lion is the MOUTH
• Why the Leopard (actually a TIGER) is the BODY
• Why the Bear is the FEET
• Who/What is the BEAST

Who/What is the False Prophet

The false prophet is the second beast of Revelation 13. He will come out of Israel, represent by coming out of the earth, compared to the sea for the first beast. He performs the miracle of fire coming down from heaven, which is one indicator that he will claim to be Elijah. Who the Jews are looking for Elijah to precede the messianic age. And who will anoint the person the King of Israel/messiah, at the beginning of the 7 years - before the person betrays the Jews after 3 years of his failed reign, revealing himself as the man of sin, and not the messiah after all.

Who/What is the IMAGE of the beast

The image of the beast will be a statue image made of the first beast and placed on the temple mount - as the abomination of desolation setup in holy place. When Satan is shortly thereafter cast down to earth for the time/times/half times, Satan will incarnate the image making it appear to come alive and be worshiped (or die). Revelation 13:4, they worshiped the dragon.

The image will be turned to ashes at Jesus's coming, exposing Satan for the entire world to see, fulfilling Ezekiel 28:16-19. Here is an illustration I made of that event.

Your quote, with clarifications inserted in bold italic purple:

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If what you said was true, then History would substantiate your claim, but instead History REFUTES your INCORRECT ASSERTIONS given the SIXTH "One is":



As such, what you present is FALSE from it's FOUNDATION and correspondingly from it's ASSERTIONS on so many aspects that it's unfathomable to think anyone would so uninformed as to give it any credence, much less repeat these DISTORTIONS of Scripture and History.


WAY beyond any credibility ...
Bobby Jo

Bobby Jo said:

If what you said was true, then History would substantiate your claim, but instead History REFUTES your INCORRECT ASSERTIONS given the SIXTH "One is":

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Well, you are talking about someone's opinion of king six being someone other than Nero, not historical fact, because John does not name king six in the text.

What is historical fact is that Nero was the last of the Julio-Claudians. The next dynasty was the Flavians. And there is not a sufficient number of previous Flavian family kings to make up five previous kings of the fourth kingdom.

btw, it should be noted Julius Caesar the first on the list was not an emperor, but was the leader of the fourth kingdom, naming himself dictator for life.

When the ten EU leaders hand the EU to the beast, he will be dictator of the EU.

As such, what you present is FALSE from it's FOUNDATION and correspondingly from it's ASSERTIONS on so many aspects that it's unfathomable to think anyone would so uninformed as to give it any credence, much less repeat these DISTORTIONS of Scripture and History.

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Sounds like Debbie-downer hyperbola from someone who himself is so uninformed. I am new here, 71 years old, but am knowledge enough to quickly determine who here actually knows something, from persons who do nothing but make snide remarks.

Please provide your timeline chart of the 7 year 70th week - to show your knowledge level. Here is the one I made...

Thanks, David, I am the same Dougg.

There is some controversy over when Revelation was given to John.

In the opinion that Nero is not king 6, the other interpretation doesn't accommodate there being 5 prior kings of the fourth kingdom being of the same group. As the Flavians were a new dynasty.

The beast, the 8th king, is "of the seven".
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In Daniel 11, the news from the east troubles him (the beast, the king of the west). I don't see any connection between Apollyon of the 5th trumpet, and the kings of the east and their 200,000,000 strong army of the 6th trumpet in Revelation 9.

There are 4 angels bound in the Euphrates that get released in concert with the 6th trumpet, though; who are instrumental in the slaying of a third of mankind.

My view is near the end of the seven years, when the beast, leader of the EU and West, is attacked by the other three sectors of the world, the kings of the east i.e. the Chinese and allies start moving west - going through India and Pakistan - two major population centers in the world, who will likely associate themselves with the beast. And thus, will suffer the third of mankind killed as the Chinese steamroll through their countries on the way to facing off against the beast headquartered in Jerusalem.

Basic Ezekiel 39 endtimes infallible framework.








After everything (mostly) is filled in...

David H. said:

So we almost have to conclude that the first beast of rev. 13 is not a fallen angel, as the pit is not opened till the fifth trumpet, and the beast from rev. 17 is a fallen angel who ascends out of the bottomless pit, which cannot be Satan for Satan is the "god of this world" and not confined to hell as he is walking about seeking whom he may devour.

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The bottomless pit is not opened to the earth until Revelation 9, the fifth trumpet.

But consider that the person in Revelation 13, a human I agree, will have been killed for going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God. This is in Ezekiel 28:1-10 that God has the person killed for that act.

Then in Isaiah 14:15-20, the person finds his soul in hell being mocked, and undeserving even of a big fancy tomb. Even so, God in disdain for the person doesn't let the person's soul remain in hell and brings him back to life.

It is then that disembodied spirit of an ancient person ascends out of the bottomless pit, the great chasm adjacent to hell, to possess the person's soul, while he is in hell. Without ever asending to the earth among earth dwellers first

Take a look at Ezekiel 28:8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

down to where the (bottomless)pit is.

In Isaiah 14:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

I think we agree that parts of Isaiah 14 refer to Satan. But I think we also agree that the beast in Revelation 13 is not Satan but a man.

So it appears to me that the beast currently in the bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8a, is the original serpent beast in the garden of Eden, who sold out to Satan. And that the end times person in Revelation 17:8b is the person in Revelation 13, who will be mortally wounded but healed.

That person gets possessed by the original serpent beast in the garden of Eden, while his soul is in hell - for a short time, a few days earth time.

@David H.

I also have another set of charts on the seven years that show the serpent spirit ascending out of the bottomless pit to possess the person.

@Douggg It seems to me that you have presented the Bowl judgements in the order in which John recorded them but you have not shown them in the order that they will occur in real time or when the respective bowl judgements will occur.

What you have presented are pretty diagrams with no real meaning or biblical compliance in them.

It is my understanding that the 7th bowl judgement occurred in the 20th century and that the 6th bowl judgement is unfolding during this present time.

The four facetted best of Rev 13 and Dan 7:19 ff will not happen until the Bottomless pit, in which the four beasts of Dan 7:1-12 are imprisoned in, for 1,000 year and that event of the four beasts being imprisoned is still to happen, probably within the next 25 years.

Shalom

Jay Ross said:

@Douggg It seems to me that you have presented the Bowl judgements in the order in which John recorded them but you have not shown them in the order that they will occur in real time or when the respective bowl judgements will occur.

What you have presented are pretty diagrams with no real meaning or biblical compliance in them.

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Jay, I didn't have enough information to put them real time (placement by month/year of the 7 years, for example) for the most part.

On my other 7 year 70th week chart, I did put the 7th bowl (7th vial) real time. In the lower right hand corner.

@Douggg Please refer to my last post in this thread. My view of your understanding has not changed.

David H. said:

In the Book of Revelation, there are three "beasts" which are described, making the "unholy trinity". The Dragon, the Beast, and the False prophet.
What Most Prophecy scholars and novices miss is that there is a fourth beast as well, One that first appears at the fifth Trumpet, and Only rises to Power for a short while with ten world Kings to execute judgment upon the harlot of Babylon. That's right, the beast of revelation 17 that harlot comes riding out on is the Fourth beast of end times. Often mistaken as the first beast, this latter beast has a different origin, He ascends from the bottomless pit, while the first beast rises from the sea. This fourth beast has different attributes than the first beast and initially has no power (Crowns) which are later given to Him for 1 Hour to make war on the harlot according to the will of God.

What Most prophecy scholars do is combine the beast of rev. 13 with the beast of Rev. 17 and try to identify the beast in modern times based on this misunderstanding. So You have theories of who the eight kings are and the identity of the first beast based on the descriptives found in Revelation 17.

The Point of this post is to separate these two beasts, and introduce you to the "destroyer" Azazel, the head of the fallen Angels who has been locked in chains in the bottomless Pit. He is Not Satan, for the dragon is Satan, He is not the first Beast (Antichrist) who is a man empowered by Satan, Nor is he the False Prophet who is also a man empowered by Satan. The first beast makes war on the saints and overcomes them, while the this fourth beast Makes war with the Lamb and the saints, and the Lamb and the saints are victorious. For this fourth beast rules after the faithful and the saints are with the LORD and His Army.

Thoughts, and questions welcome.

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Good day brother,

According to my understanding, the 1st beast of chapter 13 and the scarlet beast of chapter 17 represent the same kingdom but differing in some aspects of time.


The blue-colored words above might be the reason why the beast is non-existent in the physical world at the time of the 6th head in Revelation 17. If this is correct which is very probable, then the 5th head is the HEAD that has received the fatal wound and has died. What was healed here is the wound of the beast and not of its head that had already died. Let’s continue...


The verse above is from Revelation 17. Now, read a verse from Revelation 13:


The last two verses above are giving us information about the coming out of the beast and its deadly wound that was healed. Note in these two verses that when the beast had already ascended from the bottomless pit or sea, the people of the world are visionally AMAZED at it. These things (the fatal wound and the amazement) are implying that the 1st beast in Rev 13 and the beast in Rev 17 are one and the same. ALSO, they are indications that the time setting of the vision in Revelation 13 is when the beast is on its 7th head. The scarlet beast that is “is not” in Revelation 17 which exists only in the vision but is a pointer to actual peoples and nations is on its 6th head.

Concerning the “sea” and the “bottomless pit,” here’s what I know:

1) In the Aramaic version of the Revelation, it’s not “bottomless pit” that is written but “sea” – here's the Analysis Page of Revelation 17:8.

2) In the Old Testament, the word “deep” has this definition:

H8415 BDB Definition:


3) The Greek definition of the “bottomless pit” in Rev 17:8 is:


Its variation is:


Moreover, the “sea” in Rev 13:1 could be denoting the place on the Planet Earth which is symbolized by the “sea” just like with the symbolic “heavens” and “earth.” while “bottomless pit” in Rev 17:8 could be denoting a non-existent state.

David H. said:

But this is not what the sea means in Rev. 13:1, Thalassa is specifically a reference to sea. It has nothing to do with the depths. Then there is the fact that scripture tells us what the bottomless pit is, which is the lowest parts of Hell, Tartaroo (2 Peter 2:4) and that Angels who fell are chained there.
scripture also tells us that When the key is used to unlock the bottomless pit smoke comes out of the "Pit" , which is Phrear, which means only Pit or well (Revelation 9:1-2), So the bottomless Pit using scripture to interpret scripture has nothing to do with the sea or merely nonexistence.

All this leads to the conclusion that the beast of rev. 13 is not the same as the beast from rev. 17. One rises from the sea, the other from the bottomless pit. One is empowered by Satan, who is the "god of this world" and not chained to the bottomless pit, but will be for a 1000 years, the other is chained in the bottomless pit and is loosed from those chains and is empowered by God to execute Judgment on the harlot for one Hour with ten kings. To join the two is to create confusion as to the identity of the first beast.

The Word Sea, specifically refers to either the Mediterranean or the Red Sea, meaning seas to the west of Israel, The Bottomless pit, Azazel is a place to the east of Israel, thus these give us directions for where these beasts come from and their power. Though both will be worldwide, the first is based in Western culture, and the second in eastern culture, whether that is Islamic or Chinese or something altogether unique i do not know, but at the heart will be the Babylonian religions with the queen of heaven as the harlot.

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It's just not that difficult. Why do you guys want to make it so?

What does the symbolic "great whore" of Revelation 17:1 sit upon? and that's also described in verse 3?

And what do the waters represent per Revelation 17:15?

That's what the "sea" represents that the Rev.13:1 beast ascends out of it. Rev.17:1, 3, 7, and 15 connects what the 1st beast of Rev.13:1 is.

The 1st beast of Rev.13 is a 'system', a kingdom beast. The ten horns represent ten kings, the seven heads are 'seven mountains', and the ten crowns refer to those same ten kings.

But the 2nd beast, the "another beast" of Rev.13:11, is the "dragon" of Rev.12:9. The idea of his appearing with two horns 'like' a lamb (i.e., Christ), but speaks as a dragon, is to show Satan is coming to play Jesus Christ. He will be the pseudo-Christ that Jesus warned of in Matthew 24:23-26 in Jerusalem for the end.

David H. said:

This is exactly what this post is trying to say is problematic. You are comparing apples and oranges as the saying goes.

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I am actually keeping to The Word of God, allowing God's Word to interpret God's Word while people hiding behind men's doctrines like you continually try to pull rabbits out of their hat with trying to interpret prophetic Scripture like Revelation.

I showed direct connections between the 1st beast of Rev.13:1 that comes up out of the 'sea', with it's details given in the Rev.17 chapter. But you tried to pull rabbits out of your hat by ADDING a bunch of junk ideas into the Rev.13 chapter, while completely... disregarding the detail given in Rev.17 about the two beasts.

YOU EVEN LIED AND SAID THE REV.17 BEAST IS NOT THE SAME BEAST AS THAT IN REV.13, WHEN REV.17 GIVES DIRECT STATEMENTS ABOUT THE TEN HORNS AND SEVEN HEADS!

The problem on this Forum then is obvious. It's deceivers like you that try to hide even the simplest Scripture links that Lord Jesus revealed in His Book of Revelation.

MrBebe said:

... According to my understanding, the 1st beast of chapter 13 and the scarlet beast of chapter 17 represent the same kingdom but differing in some aspects of time. ...

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Puzzling how something so obvious can be so elusive. Consider the word "oil". It could mean some type of anointing; or cooking as with Elisha and the widow; or medicinal; or perfume. But as soon as you add the depiction of a crankshaft and pistons, the context becomes abundantly clear.

And so too with the various aspects in Rev. 13 & 17, given the depictions in Dan. 2 & 7:


And thus we should understand why Rev. 12 says SEVEN Diadems, but Rev. 13 says TEN Diadems; WHICH nation is "mortally wounded" and HOW it's "mortally wounded"; WHY the LION is the MOUTH; WHY the LEOPARD (actually a "TIGER") is the BODY; and WHY the BEAR is the FEET; and why the U.N. "was and is not", -- among other things.

So now we should know what type of "oil" and needn't speculate as to it's significance, -- etc.

Bobby Jo

Davy said:

I am actually keeping to The Word of God, allowing God's Word to interpret God's Word while people hiding behind men's doctrines like you continually try to pull rabbits out of their hat with trying to interpret prophetic Scripture like Revelation.

I showed direct connections between the 1st beast of Rev.13:1 that comes up out of the 'sea', with it's details given in the Rev.17 chapter. But you tried to pull rabbits out of your hat by ADDING a bunch of junk ideas into the Rev.13 chapter, while completely... disregarding the detail given in Rev.17 about the two beasts.

YOU EVEN LIED AND SAID THE REV.17 BEAST IS NOT THE SAME BEAST AS THAT IN REV.13, WHEN REV.17 GIVES DIRECT STATEMENTS ABOUT THE TEN HORNS AND SEVEN HEADS!

The problem on this Forum then is obvious. It's deceivers like you that try to hide even the simplest Scripture links that Lord Jesus revealed in His Book of Revelation.

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Hi Davy, the beast in Revelation 12 is Satan because it is indicated in the text that what the dragon is. The color of the dragon was red.

In Revelation 17, the beast is scarlet, an intense shade of red, which would indicate that beast is Satan as well.

Okay I think we can pretty certain say the beast w/the 7 heads/ten horns is Satan.

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The beast in Revelation 13 is neither red nor scarlet, but is a composite of three beasts. But has the 7 heads/ten horns. Which would indicate that beast has an affiliation with Satan.

The Revelation 13 beast is a man who gets his power from Satan.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


The Revelation 12 beast and the Revelation 17 beast are Satan. The Revelation 13 beast is a man who gets his power from Satan and comes out of the nations (not Israel).