God's Word does ""not"" teach that baptism is essential for salvation.

GISMYS_7 said:

Satan makes use of baptism to deceive many. Many think that they are saved because they have been baptized as a baby or young child or even as a adult and satan must laugh!!

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That is why baptism is pure per Acts 2:38 only.

Ezra said:

belief + salvation = baptism is the proper order .baptism follows after we get saved
Romans 4:1-3
King James Version

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That is not what Jesus said
Jesus said "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved".
That is belief + baptism = salvation.

GISMYS_7 said:

God's Word does ""not"" teach that baptism is essential for salvation.
The proof is found in God's word--the word that has no contradictions. Clearly, salvation is by faith. For example, Rom. 5:1 states that we are justified (declared righteous) by faith. It does not say faith and baptism. If baptism were part of salvation, then it would say we were justified by faith and baptism. But it does ""not"". If justification is by faith, then it is by faith. Baptism is ""not"" faith. It is a ceremony. It is something we do as a ritual. Proof baptism does not save is the many unbelievers that get baptized to please family and friends but remain and die unbelievers and will be in hell! Furthermore, please consider the following verses which declare how we are saved.

1. Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."
2. Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
3. Rom. 3:28, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law."
4. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness."
5. Baptism and John 3:5 | CARM.org
6. Rom. 5:1, "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
7. Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham."
8. Gal. 3:24 , "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
9. Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

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Not water baptism! But salvation, the spiritual transformation happens when we are born again - baptised by the Holy Spirit. Actually being baptised means immersed into the name of the Father and of the Son and if the Holy Spirit. Water does nothing, it is symbolic for the spiritual washing away of sins, the immersion in Christ. Even John the Baptist said his baptism was not the same (for the remission of sins) as Jesus baptism of the Holy Spirit.

GISMYS_7 said:

God's Word does ""not"" teach that baptism is essential for salvation.
The proof is found in God's word--the word that has no contradictions. Clearly, salvation is by faith. For example, Rom. 5:1 states that we are justified (declared righteous) by faith. It does not say faith and baptism. If baptism were part of salvation, then it would say we were justified by faith and baptism. But it does ""not"". If justification is by faith, then it is by faith. Baptism is ""not"" faith. It is a ceremony. It is something we do as a ritual. Proof baptism does not save is the many unbelievers that get baptized to please family and friends but remain and die unbelievers and will be in hell! Furthermore, please consider the following verses which declare how we are saved.

1. Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."
2. Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
3. Rom. 3:28, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law."
4. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness."
5. Baptism and John 3:5 | CARM.org
6. Rom. 5:1, "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
7. Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham."
8. Gal. 3:24 , "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
9. Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

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if you're talking about baptism by water then you're correct but baptism of the Holy Spirit (born again) is required:


Joh 3:3　 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.　
Joh 3:4　 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?　
Joh 3:5　 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.　
Joh 3:6　 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.　
Joh 3:7　 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.　

and that would be as John the Baptist describes:

Mat_3:11　 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

therefore baptism by Holy Ghost is required.

even the apostles testify of the same, by receiving the baptism on Pentecost and testifying through their writings.

Mungo said:

That is not what Jesus said
Jesus said "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved".
That is belief + baptism = salvation.

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Thank you for properly representing the words of Jesus in Mark 16:16.

Mungo said:

That is not what Jesus said
Jesus said "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved".
That is belief + baptism = salvation.

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you have took it out of context

Truther said:

No, baptism is a burial fella.
Read Romans 6....
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:...
Don't kill the babies anymore, okay?

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Per YOUR favorite verse - Baptism is NEW LIFE in the Spirit.

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and BE BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

We die and are buried to our OLD SELF - and we are made NEW in Christ:
Col. 2:11-12
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; and you were buried with him in baptism, IN WHICH YOU WERE ALSO RAISED WITH HIM through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead

STUDY your Bible - don't just quote it . . .

Ezra said:

you have took it out of context

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Explain what the context is that changes the plain meaning of Jesus' words.

BreadOfLife said:

Per YOUR favorite verse - Baptism is NEW LIFE in the Spirit.

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and BE BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

We die and are buried to our OLD SELF - and we are made NEW in Christ:
Col. 2:11-12
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; and you were buried with him in baptism, IN WHICH YOU WERE ALSO RAISED WITH HIM through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead

STUDY your Bible - don't just quote it . . .

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I can see how quoting scriptures irks those that baptize unrepented babies "unto death".

DPMartin said:

if you're talking about baptism by water then you're correct but baptism of the Holy Spirit (born again) is required:


Joh 3:3　 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.　
Joh 3:4　 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?　
Joh 3:5　 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.　
Joh 3:6　 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.　
Joh 3:7　 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.　

and that would be as John the Baptist describes:

Mat_3:11　 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

therefore baptism by Holy Ghost is required.

even the apostles testify of the same, by receiving the baptism on Pentecost and testifying through their writings.

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John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
John 3:5 refers to baptism in water only not two baptisms. There is only one baptism (Eph 4:5). It is in baptism in water that we are born again (or more accurately born anew or from above.

It is baptism with water that the Holy Spirit renews us as it says in Ti 3:5 "he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit," (NAB)

Truther said:

I can see how quoting scriptures irks those that baptize unrepented babies "unto death".

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No - quoting Scripture (Like I did) is fine.
Not understanding it - like YOU don't is the problem.

Scripture plainly states - repeatedly - that Baptism of Water and the Spirit is when we are born again (John 3:5, Acts 2:38-39, 1 Pet. 3:21).
Adults need to repent first. Babies don't (Matt. 9:14, Acts 2:39, Acts 1:16, Acts 16:33).

Mungo said:

We are not saved just because we believe.

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Right, so any sick person laying in a hospital bed, repenting and crying out to the Lord to save them will go to hell.
That's exactly what you are saying. (Legalism in top form.)

Here's what I believe:
That repenting sick sinner, in that hospital bed, crying out to God will be saved.
So glad we serve a loving forgiving Father in Heaven.
So glad Jesus in heaven, is on our Father's side praying for this lost world.
Praise God for compassion.
Praise God for being a just God and doing always the right thing.

(God can remain just in his judgment of the lost while still giving mercy to those who, by faith, have received the forgiveness of their sins.)

Triumph1300 said:

Right, so any sick person laying in a hospital bed, repenting and crying out to the Lord to save them will go to hell.
That's exactly what you are saying. (Legalism in top form.)

Here's what I believe:
That repenting sick sinner, in that hospital bed, crying out to God will be saved.
So glad we serve a loving forgiving Father in Heaven.
So glad Jesus in heaven, is on our Father's side praying for this lost world.
Praise God for compassion.
Praise God for being a just God and doing always the right thing.

(God can remain just in his judgment of the lost while still giving mercy to those who, by faith, have received the forgiveness of their sins.)

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I'm not saying that because you snipped a bit out of context. If that's the way you want to play it we have nothing to discuss.

Triumph1300 said:

Right, so any sick person laying in a hospital bed, repenting and crying out to the Lord to save them will go to hell.
That's exactly what you are saying. (Legalism in top form.)

Here's what I believe:
That repenting sick sinner, in that hospital bed, crying out to God will be saved.
So glad we serve a loving forgiving Father in Heaven.
So glad Jesus in heaven, is on our Father's side praying for this lost world.
Praise God for compassion.
Praise God for being a just God and doing always the right thing.

(God can remain just in his judgment of the lost while still giving mercy to those who, by faith, have received the forgiveness of their sins.)

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You've already been corrected on this point - but you keep pretending that it hasn't been addressed.
The last time was in post #60, when I posted the following:

Nope.
That's why I warned you to NEVER base your doctrines on the exception.

God knows the heart - and THAT'S why the Thief on the cross was an exception.
He was UNABLE to be Baptized because he was "busy" being executed.

The SAME goes for any member of Cornelius's family or YOU in a car accident.
This is what is known as the Baptism of Desire.

Once again - Baptism is the NORM - but there ARE exceptions.

Mungo said:

If that's the way you want to play it we have nothing to discuss.

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I am not playing here.

Even though some times this place looks like a playground with little spoiled children.

GISMYS_7 said:

How to be saved (born again) and join the family of God!!!

Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13 GOD SAYS=

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved.............

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You summed it up correctly.
And that's why that
person on the hospital bed, mentioned in my previous post, will go to
heaven without water baptism in this case.

Thank you God for being a Just God.

By Bread Of Life:God knows the heart - and THAT'S why the Thief on the cross was an exception.
He was UNABLE to be Baptized because he was "busy" being executed.

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Yes, you quoted this before. I DID read it.
It's exactly how the sick person in the hospital can be saved.




The SICK PERSON WAS BEING SICK!
So, what's your point?

For crying out loud.......

Triumph1300 said:

Yes, you quoted this before. I DID read it.
It's exactly how the sick person in the hospital can be saved.
The SICK PERSON WAS BEING SICK!
So, what's your point?
For crying out loud.......

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You KNOW the point. you're just pretending that the Bible doesn't maker the case CLEARLY that Baptism is necessary for salvation (Ezek. 36:25-28, Matt. 28:19, John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:37-38, Acts 10:48, Acts 19:1-7, Acts 22:16, Rom. 6: 3-4, Gal. 3:27, Col. 2:11-12, Eph. 4:5, Tit. 3:4-8, 1 Pet. 3:21).

I also showed you that the Bible shows that there are exceptions to the rule - such as in the case of the Thief on the cross.
What YOU are trying to do is to formulate a doctrine from the exception instead of accepting the doctrine as stated in Scripture.

Triumph1300 said:

You summed it up correctly.
And that's why that
person on the hospital bed, mentioned in my previous post, will go to
heaven without water baptism in this case.

Thank you God for being a Just God.

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Many years ago I had a coworker that I worked with ended up in a hospital with stage 4 cancer. That day as I was leaving work I heard The Lord speak to me and asked me to visit her before I went home. I really was not into doing it because it was snowing and the hospital was in the city. I ended up going and I saw my friend in a sad state. I did not plan my words but yet the words flowed out right. In a way it was a review of our relationship but showed with out a doubt, that The Lord was with me all along. It settled a lot of things in her mind. I did take her hands and prayed for her and right before I left I told her about what happens when one repents and calls upon the Name of The Lord. A few days later at work a christian friend of mine ask me if perhaps I had visited her in the hospital. I said yes. She then told me, I thought so, because when I visited her she was glowing and joined me in prayer and a reading of the Bible. A few days later my friend passed away but I have no doubt I will see her again.This was a woman who in her entire life never even had a Blble in her house, and yet He sent me to her. Thank you heavenly Father. Your mercy endures forever.