If one finds themselves like Paul in Romans 7......

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Gideons300

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We all know about Romans 7. It is where Paul lamented that the things he wanted to do, he didn't do. The things he wanted to avoid, those were the very things he did.

Is that where you find yourself? Trust me, you have plenty of company. LOL. I want to ask a favor of you. oI want you to do a little spiritual introspection, if you feel led, just you and God.

When you read Paul's words, do you hear the desperation in his words? He felt himself trapped in a prison of sin and self. He truly hated that part of him, the part that either couldn't or worse yet, wouldn't obey God. When we read the whole chapter in its entirety, we find not one place where he accepted this as the best God had for him. He would not rest until he had more, a life that glorified his savior.

As we read his words, we realize that he saw his failure to walk pleasing to God as a great shame and his heart broke because of it. We hear his broken man crying out 'O wretched man! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

Guys, should this not be the attitude of every child of God who is found still caught in the web of sin? Indeed, it should. But..... is it? Is that how you feel? I am not talking about a 'theoretical' disappointment about being a sinner, with a quick "but hey, of course I sin, I am only human. That is why Jesus came and died for me." that pats us on the back, making everything alright.

No, I am talking about the hating that part of us that Jesus said we MUST come to hate if we are to please God. Real brokenness. Why is this so important? Because until this happens in our lives, until we feel we cannot take another step until we get free from the self part of us that refuses to bow the knee to God in every instance, we cannot experience what Paul experienced at the end of Romans 7.

You see, despite what we have been taught, Romans 7 was not Paul's ending testimony. He did not end up miserable and imprisoned to sins of his flesh. We here him declaring in his epistle to the Phillipians.... 'I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me!" I pray we see this. Paul, imprisoned in self, cried out for God to do what he wanted to do so badly but could not..... deliver him from the power of darkness. And praise God, that. exactly what God did!

I fear we have made Romans 7 a haven of rest short of the promised land, and multitudes of His people, even well intentioned people, have made Romans 7 their ceiling of what God can accomplish in their lives, effectively placing a limit of what God can do in their lives. But God has ordained that faith unlocks access to dwelling in Him and just as surely, unbelief limits Him.

So concerning this critical chapter, we see who it is speaking about, and.... who it is not. Paul made clear in the very first verse of Romans 7 who he was speaking. to.... those who knew the law. Not the mosaic law. Romans was written to gentiles, remember? What law? The law of sin and death. The law of self effort in trying to obey God.

Yes, as we put our minds to obeying our God, we fail in our trying. No, in our own strength, we cannot be holy, or live in victory, no matter hard we try. But you see, we have stopped there, content with forgiveness and have failed to embrace the brokenness that such a realization was meant to bring about within us. As wonderful as it is, we were never meant to simply be pardoned children of God, yet remain imprisoned to our fleshly appetites. Jesus promised to set us free indeed.... free from committing sins, not just delivered from the penalty for our sins, but delivered from the power of sin itself!

So as we read on in Romans 7, and Paul cries out "Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?", he does not atop there, assuming he had to make the best of it. He does not resign himself to never escaping his prison cell of self, and start to spruce it up and paint his cell walls. No, brother. No, dear sister. Paul wastes no time in providing us with the answer we need so desperately to here in these last days. Who will deliver him? . "I thank God through Jesus Christ my Lord." Glory!

God has told us clearly that we are to seek Him AND His righteousness. Jesus told us that blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they SHALL be filled, amen? We have been destined to reign in life, not remain imprisoned to out lower nature, and in these last days, God is beginning to open our eyes to the depths of His grace that goes far past just forgiveness. Yes, He forgives when we fall. But do our hearts long to be freed from our fleshly nature, our love for sin, our contentment without Godliness?

That is the critical question, and I pray you take it before the throne of God and ask Him to give you His heart on the matter. He will not disappoint. The testimony of every child of God will soon be planted in Romans 8, not Romans 7, for here God tells us a truth we have up til now believed and accepted with our heads, but because our hearts have not hungered after it, we have failed to see its amazing potential.

What truth is this? What are we now being awakened to? The truth that we are not in the flesh any longer, but in the spirit, and that we owe the flesh NOTHING. Yes, we still have fleshly bodies and will till we meet the Lord face to face, but our natures? They are no longer fleshly. They are brand new.... Christ iN us. And when we finally have the scales of unbelief fall from our eyes and see the truth that the old us does not need to die, it already IS dead, and we, by faith, clothe ourselves with it, the joy of the Lord will overwhelm us beyond what we even think possible.

Huge changes are coming. And as the world seems to spin further out of control, the hearts of His own are about to be lifted up and planted in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil. Are you ready? I am.

blessings to all,

Gideon
 

Cristo Rei

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I love Romans 7... What was it that Paul was battling with...
No one will ever know but my guess would be that Paul was dealing with hate and anger given how much he was persecuted...

It certainly doesn't end with chapter 7... Do people use it to justify a life of sin... It wouldn't surprise me...
Paul says that evil is with him every step of the way and that we must put on the armour of God in order to stand against the schemes of the evil one.

Satan is real, spiritual warfare is real
 
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Gideons300

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I love Romans 7... What was it that Paul was battling with...
No one will ever know but my guess would be that Paul was dealing with hate and anger given how much he was persecuted...

It certainly doesn't end with chapter 7... Do people use it to justify a life of sin... It wouldn't surprise me...
Paul says that evil is with him every step of the way and that we must put on the armour of God in order to stand against the schemes of the evil one.

Satan is real, spiritual warfare is real
Thanks for sharing and yes, evil is with us. But...... BUT..... it is critical we understand that we must come into agreement with God that evil is no longer IN us. We are told we can resist satan steadfast in the faith and see him flee from us.

Romans 7 must be our wilderness we pass through, for there is no rest for us in Romans 7. If we remain there, we can see our continued sin harden our hearts and God's presence, although still present, will be harder and harder to feel.

Our birthright is Romans 8. How do we get there. We obey Romans 6. We take the knowledge Paul shares with us..... a) that when Jesus died, so did we, our old nature and b) that when Jesus rose from the dead, we too rose to newness of life and we get it firmly in our heads to be TRUTH.

But.... that is not enough. It must get into our hearts. And how does this happen? Paul tells us we must reckon these truths to be OUR truths. we must appropriate them by an act of audacious faith. No matter how we feel, no matter what we are struggling with, no matter how unworthy or unprepared we may see ourselves, we are to openly confess that the old us really is dead.

And when we do that, hearts hungry for what God promises, freedom from our old nature, freedom from the allure of sin.... FREE INDEED, God responds and drops that faith in our hearts and the miracle happens...... the chains fall off.

This does not mean we have arrived. It means we have drug out our spiritual armor from the back of the closet and put it on.

So, what changes. Tons. One of the most noticeable is that Jesus is close, all the time. Another? When temptation comes, instead of fighting the sin itself, we go to the root that has given that sin poser in the past, and declare that we are new creatures and lay no claim to the thought, accusation or temptation. I cannot express the joy of watching how frustrated satan gets when our shields of faith are actually up. What I share is real, and it is for every child of God, no matter how bound, no matter how weak. Amazing God!

blessings,

Gids
 

historyb

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Crumbacher made a song about Romans 7 called "Identical Twins" which I can identify with many times

Hope this is okay

 

2nd Timothy Group

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No one will ever know but my guess would be that Paul was dealing with hate and anger given how much he was persecuted...

Once I realized that Paul was not speaking from the Mind Of Christ (for Christ would never think as did Paul ((describing his former life before Holy Transformation)), that was one of my "clarion calls" for waking up to the Scriptures and the Lord's Mysterious Plan.

I always used to read Romans 7 and say to myself, "Yep! That's me! Totally out of control and unable to maintain any form of self-control. I'm a Christian! This proves it, for I am just like Paul . . . totally unable to obey!"

Yikes. For after clearly having been Indwelt by the Holy Spirit at a specific place and time, longitude and lattitude, I knew for a fact that I was not saved. From that point onward, God Himself has instilled His Laws of the Spirit of Life within me, and finally I began to Obey . . . not by my Will, but by His. These changes within me could never have come about by my own power or choice, but by the Lords Power and Choice . . . which is what it means to share in the Divine Nature of Christ.

2 Peter 1:2-4 NKJV - "Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that [pertain] to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption [that is] in the world through lust."

[Edit] I should also add that when we consider that Paul asked us to model himself (18 times, I believe), in no way would he ever suggest that we model himself as he once lived under the Law of Sin and Death. Instead, he wrote to people about how perfectly he lived. Check this out . . .

Acts 20:18-19 NIV - "When they arrived, he said to them: "You know how I lived the whole time I was with you, from the first day I came into the province of Asia. 19 I served the Lord with great humility and with tears and in the midst of severe testing by the plots of my Jewish opponents."

This Paul [above] is not the Paul (Saul) as he describes himself in Romans 7.

Just fun food for thought. Enjoy! :)
 
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Gideons300

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Once I realized that Paul was not speaking from the Mind Of Christ (for Christ would never think as did Paul ((describing his former life before Holy Transformation)), that was one of my "clarion calls" for waking up to the Scriptures and the Lord's Mysterious Plan.

I always used to read Romans 7 and say to myself, "Yep! That's me! Totally out of control and unable to maintain any form of self-control. I'm a Christian! This proves it, for I am just like Paul . . . totally unable to obey!"

Yikes. For after clearly having been Indwelt by the Holy Spirit at a specific place and time, longitude and lattitude, I knew for a fact that I was not saved. From that point onward, God Himself has instilled His Laws of the Spirit of Life within me, and finally I began to Obey . . . not by my Will, but by His. These changes within me could never have come about by my own power or choice, but by the Lords Power and Choice . . . which is what it means to share in the Divine Nature of Christ.

2 Peter 1:2-4 NKJV - "Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that [pertain] to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption [that is] in the world through lust."

[Edit] I should also add that when we consider that Paul asked us to model himself (18 times, I believe), in no way would he ever suggest that we model himself as he once lived under the Law of Sin and Death. Instead, he wrote to people about how perfectly he lived. Check this out . . .

Acts 20:18-19 NIV - "When they arrived, he said to them: "You know how I lived the whole time I was with you, from the first day I came into the province of Asia. 19 I served the Lord with great humility and with tears and in the midst of severe testing by the plots of my Jewish opponents."

This Paul [above] is not the Paul (Saul) as he describes himself in Romans 7.

Just fun food for thought. Enjoy! :)
Fun food for thought?? That is a Thanksgiving feast. Thank you, dear brother.

me
 

Cristo Rei

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Thanks for sharing and yes, evil is with us. But...... BUT..... it is critical we understand that we must come into agreement with God that evil is no longer IN us. We are told we can resist satan steadfast in the faith and see him flee from us.

Romans 7 must be our wilderness we pass through, for there is no rest for us in Romans 7. If we remain there, we can see our continued sin harden our hearts and God's presence, although still present, will be harder and harder to feel.

Our birthright is Romans 8. How do we get there. We obey Romans 6. We take the knowledge Paul shares with us..... a) that when Jesus died, so did we, our old nature and b) that when Jesus rose from the dead, we too rose to newness of life and we get it firmly in our heads to be TRUTH.

But.... that is not enough. It must get into our hearts. And how does this happen? Paul tells us we must reckon these truths to be OUR truths. we must appropriate them by an act of audacious faith. No matter how we feel, no matter what we are struggling with, no matter how unworthy or unprepared we may see ourselves, we are to openly confess that the old us really is dead.

And when we do that, hearts hungry for what God promises, freedom from our old nature, freedom from the allure of sin.... FREE INDEED, God responds and drops that faith in our hearts and the miracle happens...... the chains fall off.

This does not mean we have arrived. It means we have drug out our spiritual armor from the back of the closet and put it on.

So, what changes. Tons. One of the most noticeable is that Jesus is close, all the time. Another? When temptation comes, instead of fighting the sin itself, we go to the root that has given that sin poser in the past, and declare that we are new creatures and lay no claim to the thought, accusation or temptation. I cannot express the joy of watching how frustrated satan gets when our shields of faith are actually up. What I share is real, and it is for every child of God, no matter how bound, no matter how weak. Amazing God!

blessings,

Gids

Are you saying you are free from sin and its temptation? Even Christ was tempted by the evil one...
To me, Paul's spiritual warfare doesn't end in this world, he tells us that evil is there till the end, victory doesn't come in this world

Many sins are feeling and emotions; hate, envy, pride, lust, anger and the like.
If your saying that your free from such temptations then i take my hat off to ya
 

2nd Timothy Group

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Paul's spiritual warfare doesn't end in this world, he tells us that evil is there till the end, victory doesn't come in this world

I like what Paul taught in the Core Passages of the entire Bible . . .

Colossians 2:15 NLT - "In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

This Holy Victory comes to anyone who receives the Circumcision of Christ.
 

Not me

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Thanks for sharing and yes, evil is with us. But...... BUT..... it is critical we understand that we must come into agreement with God that evil is no longer IN us. We are told we can resist satan steadfast in the faith and see him flee from us.

Romans 7 must be our wilderness we pass through, for there is no rest for us in Romans 7. If we remain there, we can see our continued sin harden our hearts and God's presence, although still present, will be harder and harder to feel.

Our birthright is Romans 8. How do we get there. We obey Romans 6. We take the knowledge Paul shares with us..... a) that when Jesus died, so did we, our old nature and b) that when Jesus rose from the dead, we too rose to newness of life and we get it firmly in our heads to be TRUTH.

But.... that is not enough. It must get into our hearts. And how does this happen? Paul tells us we must reckon these truths to be OUR truths. we must appropriate them by an act of audacious faith. No matter how we feel, no matter what we are struggling with, no matter how unworthy or unprepared we may see ourselves, we are to openly confess that the old us really is dead.

And when we do that, hearts hungry for what God promises, freedom from our old nature, freedom from the allure of sin.... FREE INDEED, God responds and drops that faith in our hearts and the miracle happens...... the chains fall off.

This does not mean we have arrived. It means we have drug out our spiritual armor from the back of the closet and put it on.

So, what changes. Tons. One of the most noticeable is that Jesus is close, all the time. Another? When temptation comes, instead of fighting the sin itself, we go to the root that has given that sin poser in the past, and declare that we are new creatures and lay no claim to the thought, accusation or temptation. I cannot express the joy of watching how frustrated satan gets when our shields of faith are actually up. What I share is real, and it is for every child of God, no matter how bound, no matter how weak. Amazing God!

blessings,

Gids

Blessings, in knowing the truth by experience;

That sin has not died,,,, but we have died to it...

Blessings, a fellow servant of His, Not me
 

Not me

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It is so good to see you!

blessings old friend,

Gids

As we learn Christ may our joy in Him be increased...

Happy Thanksgiving and you have my permission to eat that third piece of pie... heeeeee :)

A brother in the faith, Not me
 

CharismaticLady

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Once I realized that Paul was not speaking from the Mind Of Christ (for Christ would never think as did Paul ((describing his former life before Holy Transformation)), that was one of my "clarion calls" for waking up to the Scriptures and the Lord's Mysterious Plan.

I always used to read Romans 7 and say to myself, "Yep! That's me! Totally out of control and unable to maintain any form of self-control. I'm a Christian! This proves it, for I am just like Paul . . . totally unable to obey!"

Yikes. For after clearly having been Indwelt by the Holy Spirit at a specific place and time, longitude and lattitude, I knew for a fact that I was not saved. From that point onward, God Himself has instilled His Laws of the Spirit of Life within me, and finally I began to Obey . . . not by my Will, but by His. These changes within me could never have come about by my own power or choice, but by the Lords Power and Choice . . . which is what it means to share in the Divine Nature of Christ.

2 Peter 1:2-4 NKJV - "Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that [pertain] to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption [that is] in the world through lust."

[Edit] I should also add that when we consider that Paul asked us to model himself (18 times, I believe), in no way would he ever suggest that we model himself as he once lived under the Law of Sin and Death. Instead, he wrote to people about how perfectly he lived. Check this out . . .

Acts 20:18-19 NIV - "When they arrived, he said to them: "You know how I lived the whole time I was with you, from the first day I came into the province of Asia. 19 I served the Lord with great humility and with tears and in the midst of severe testing by the plots of my Jewish opponents."

This Paul [above] is not the Paul (Saul) as he describes himself in Romans 7.

Just fun food for thought. Enjoy! :)

Yes, it is so clear that just like Paul before his Road to Damascus experience with Christ, I was just like he said he was before that time as a Pharisee, knowing the Mosaic Law, but trying to keep it with his carnal flesh.

We must be born again of the Spirit. Yay! That is Romans 8! What a sobering thought when I was finally baptized in the Holy Spirit and the desire to sin vanished instantaneously, I realized that for the 30 years prior, I was unsaved and going to church every week!

The key is exactly what Paul did at the end of Romans 7 when he realized it was his sinful flesh that kept him from obeying the Law and then crying out to Jesus. We first have to come to that point of integrity of heart when we are honest with ourselves and seeing ourselves as week, carnal, sin-loving beings, and knowing we will go to hell if we don't change, but knowing we can't on our own. That is when we confess and repent of our complete weakness of nature, and that is when Jesus takes that old nature and nails it to the cross with Himself. We then are raised up with an entirely new nature that partakes of the divine nature of Christ.
 
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2nd Timothy Group

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Yes, it is so clear that just like Paul before his Road to Damascus experience with Christ, I was just like he said he was before that time as a Pharisee, knowing the Mosaic Law, but trying to keep it with his carnal flesh.

We must be born again of the Spirit. Yay! That is Romans 8! What a sobering thought when I was finally baptized in the Holy Spirit and the desire to sin vanished instantaneously, I realized that for the 30 years prior, I was unsaved and going to church every week!

The key is exactly what Paul did at the end of Romans 7 when he realized it was his sinful flesh that kept him from obeying the Law and then crying out to Jesus. We first have to come to that point of integrity of heart when we are honest with ourselves and seeing ourselves as week, carnal, sin-loving beings, and knowing we will go to hell if we don't change, but knowing we can't on our own. That is when we confess and repent of our complete weakness of nature, and that is when Jesus takes that old nature and nails it to the cross with Himself. We then are raised up with an entirely new nature that partakes of the divine nature of Christ.

Oh my gosh. It's almost as if I were reading my own post! Give me about 25 seconds and you'll find another "follower!"

So glad to know you, Sister!:)
 
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2nd Timothy Group

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I see you are new. God must have sent you to battle along side me. Hardly anyone knows what I'm talking about! So few can relate!

I hear you! Here's what I did: Once I realized that Paul was telling us that there is a hidden Mystery found within the Lord's Word, the Detective in me got busy. I realized that I didn't know what this Mystery was, so I approached the Bible in the Light. This means that I knew that I had to abandon all previous beliefs about the Bible and start all over. This time, as I began my new Biblical education, I wasn't going to "church", but allowed the Holy Spirit to show me all that I was supposed to come to know, see and learn.

Yes, I have always been in the "church," and this was helpful for me to begin to put this Mystery together, for I knew of Biblical names and characters, but I didn't Know them. In fact, I knew nothing about them, really. But this time, I realized that I needed to read the Bible in a timeline, chronological order so that I can see the actual story. Imagine reading your favorite book with the chapters all scrambled . . . it would take a lot of time and work to figure out the actual story. And that is what I did . . . and the process has changed my life, for sure.

From there, and considering my database / Microsoft background, I decided to begin cataloging and keeping track of ideas and Doctrines, even creating my own dictionary and encyclopedia, if you will. This isn't to say that mine is better, but it is tailored around my Biblical need as well as my own words. Why is this important? As I would need to search for ideas, etc, I knew what words I had previously used, which made finding the information that I had collected much, much easier.

Sure enough, an entirely new Biblical picture began to take shape . . . a picture that I did not know even existed. As I highlighted literally ever word within my Bible, I searched for the most critical ideas and concepts that I could find. I did my best to make sure that I followed the storyline, and that I understand everything that I read (within reason) before I moved on to the next verse. This allowed me to see how all of the Bible was interlaced, and even incredibly repetitive. Yes, the Bible consistently is saying the same things over and over again, but within different stories, and even using different words to describe . . . the same things!

Soon, I began to grasp Key Words and even passages, passages that I now call Keystone passages; something like Cornerstone. But I used Keystone because these ideas are in fact, Key, but they are also the foundation of the entire Bible. And as you can imagine, the passages that you used above are those same Keystone passages, assuming that I know which ones you are referring to, such as Romans 8:2 . . . which references the notion that True Christians operate by Laws that, or I should say WHO, cause us to Obey and be exactly as God had always planned. Our Causal God has Eternal Plans written upon Heavenly Scrolls, and those Scrolls will not be changed, for there is no Power greater than God to change them. Therefore, these Holy Laws of the Spirit of Life, if they are granted, will begin to change a person's entire life, including the way they think and the things they do.

And what I found is that there are no more important verses than Colossians 2:9-15, that nearly every aspect of the Bible can be processed through them, and if done, a person will come to be Known by Christ. Circumcision of the Heart is at the very Heart of the entire Bible, and it is my contention that if we do not know this teaching, our understandings will fall miserably short. But, there are also two sets of Scripture that provide further foundation, and they are in the graphic below. I call this the Triangle of Truth. In knowing these Scripture sets, and by processing all of God's Word through them, the Truth will be found.
 

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CharismaticLady

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@2nd Timothy Group

That's a great study. I see the circumcision of the heart as that moment when our old nature is cut off and nailed to the cross, and we receive God's laws written on a new nature, making us one with Christ. We abide in Him, and He in us. 1 John 3:24. Instead of trying to keep God's laws with an opposing nature, suddenly we naturally keep God's laws as part of our nature. 2 Peter 1:2-4. (I like this all the way through verse 11).

A few years ago I also wanted to throw out everything I had learned denominationaly, and for God to show me the true meaning of every verse. Needless to say, my understanding exploded!
 

2nd Timothy Group

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@2nd Timothy Group

That's a great study. I see the circumcision of the heart as that moment when our old nature is cut off and nailed to the cross, and we receive God's laws written on a new nature, making us one with Christ. We abide in Him and He in us. 1 John 3:24. Instead of trying to keep God's laws with an opposing nature, suddenly we naturally keep God's laws as part of our nature. 2 Peter 1:2-4. (I like this all the way through verse 11).

A few years ago I also wanted to throw out everything I had learned denominationally, and for God to show me the true meaning of every verse. Needless to say, my understanding exploded!

There you go again, mentioning one of those Keystone passages. 2 Pet 1:2-4 is it! I can't believe that you're using the same passages that I use.

Thank you, God! I'm not alone!
 
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CharismaticLady

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There you go again, mentioning one of those Keystone passages. 2 Pet 1:2-4 is it! I can't believe that you're using the same passages that I use.

Thank you, God! I'm not alone!
LOL It is so refreshing to hear someone use Romans 7 in the correct way - BEFORE Christ, when Paul was still UNDER the Law. Context, context, context! The context is Romans 7:13 - Romans 8:9.