Marymog
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God's Word does ""not"" teach that baptism is essential for salvation.
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The Martyrs were sawed asunder, beheaded, fed to the lions ... now who is crying about "un-christlike"?
That's up to God.
Jesus promises that if we believe and baptised we will be saved.
There are many possibilities why someone may believe and not be baptised. Whether God saves them is up to God but wilfull refusal to be baptised is disobedience which is disbelief.
Jesus gives us a pattern for our salvation
“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”
In these words Jesus sets out the basic methodology our initial justification (salvation)
preach the gospel; believe the gospel; be baptised.
We can see these three steps in the Acts of the Apostles, either explicitly or implicitly.
At Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40)
Philip in Samaria (Acts 8:5-12)
Philip with the Ethiopian (Acts 8:26-38)
Cornelius (Acts 10:34-48)
Lydia (Acts 16:13-15)
The Jailer (Acts 16:30-33)
12 men at Ephesus (Acts 19:1-5)
The first step is to hear the gospel which is why Jesus places preaching it first. We can infer from those words that what Jesus says next only applies to those who have had the (true) gospel preached to them and are capable of understanding it.
Then there are four possibilities:
1. Someone believes and is baptised.
2. Someone believes but is not baptised.
3. Someone does not believe and is baptised.
4. Someone does not believe and is not baptised.
Jesus only definitively addresses 1. & 4, although some may argue that 3 is included in the not believe statement. However that requires a deeper understanding of the sacrament of baptism. But regarding this thread Jesus definitively states that for those to whom this applies (hearing and understanding the true gospel) then both faith and baptism are the normal way to receive salvation.
Right on!!! Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13
GOD SAYS=
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved...........Belief saves not baptism.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
We call upon the name of the Lord in baptism, and our sins get remitted...
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Jesus plainly says...
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Simple question if baptism saves is a unbeliever that gets baptized saved???? Answer =NO way!!! but satan wants him to think so!! and you??
After introducing the person who "believes not", why in the name of common sense would it be necessary for the Lord to emphasize the unbeliever's state of condemnation?
Jesus plainly says...
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
And here, Peter plainly says...
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Marymog
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Sadly, yes they were. And some on here complain if their feelings get hurt by some words.
historyb
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Yet you really don't believe the Bible, it can be seen by your cherry picking to puff yourself up in pride. The Bible, which is inspired by God, that to be saved you must be baptized and repent not just believe. So what starts a person on their salvation journey normative speaking, Repent, belief, and Baptism without which the journey will never be complete. Now are there exceptions, of course but exceptions are not the normal way.
If you are not a saved believer BEFORE you are baptized you waste your time.
Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13
GOD SAYS=
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved.............OOPS!!! Forgot baptism????
Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13
GOD SAYS=
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved.............OOPS!!! Forgot baptism????
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Untrue if you mean the person being baptised must believe.
Belief is required but not necessarily by the person being baptised (a baby for example). But that's another discussion.
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Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved"
That's belief + baptism = salvation.
You need to believe Jesus.
Babies don't sin. They don't make covenants. They barely know they are people. They don't repent, nor get baptized.
One need not concentrate and rehearse all the sins hey have committed to repent.
One must simply surrender their will.
Kinda like giving up during a spanking to stop it.
If someone is unable to do that, they are less than a baby in mentality, but innocent.
BreadOfLife
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Babies DON'T make Covenants?
Jews entered the Covenant with God by CIRCUMCISION in the OT.
WHO made the Covenant with God when 8-day-old babies were circumcised in the OT?
BreadOfLife
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You're dodging the issue.
I asked you to prove that a severely retarded/mentally-challenged person has full use of their faculties.
If you don't have full use of your faculties - then you CAN'T surrender your will.
SO - does a severely retarded/mentally-challenged person have to repent in order to be Baptized?
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
To supplement your 2 irrefutable posts:
There was never a debate or controversy about Baptism. There was unanimous agreement with all the Early Church Fathers, teachers and theologians. The trouble started when Calvin disagreed with Luther about baptismal regeneration and the divisions haven't stopped since. How does that prove the historic Church had it wrong in the first place?
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