One taken to heaven and the other left to face the Tribulation...

Davy · Nov 29, 2020

Truther said:
The taking of the saints is not the 2nd coming.

You did not know that?

The taking happens BEFORE his return...this is how you see them return with Christ per Rev 19 and Zech 14.

There are only 2 coming events by Jesus written of in God's Word. His 1st coming was to die on the cross. He did that.

His 2nd coming is to gather His Church and return to earth to begin His thousand years reign over all His enemies.

The pseudo-Messiah comes first, and that is who the first ones 'taken' will be taken by. That was Jesus' answer to His Apostle's question of 'where' those would be taken to. So go ahead, jump on board with Satan! He'll love ya for it! And if you don't care enough about our Heavenly Father and His Son to listen to Him in His Word, and would rather listen to and heed those charlatans that lie about Christ's coming, then more room for God's people when Jesus does return!

Ziggy · Nov 30, 2020

Davy said:
Well, with just quoting Scripture fragments and jumping around in God's Word without first doing disciplined line upon line, chapter by chapter Bible study will pretty much cause one to be deceived by the coming pseudo-Christ. Our times for the end of this world is not like any other. Christ's and His Apostle's warnings about Satan appearing here on earth and playing God has never happened before during this present world.

So even as little as a generation and a half ago of believers on Christ; they were not subjected to the kind of test of our Faith that is soon coming in our time. Falling away to worship Satan disguised as our Lord Jesus in Jerusalem in our near future is a one time event, ordained for the very end of this world. It is why the coming tribulation will be a time that has never been the likes before on this earth.

The whole world is already deceived and has been since the new birth.
Even since Moses. Even since Abraham. Even since Adam.

I post Scripture fragments because certain people get upset when I make long posts for study.
Now you say they are too short..

What is that saying?
You can't please everyone all of the time..
aw well..

Peace

ReChoired · Nov 30, 2020

Keraz said:
Matthew 24:37-44 starts with reminding us the end times will be 'As it was in the days of Noah.....
What happened in the 'Days of Noah'? All the wicked were drowned and the few righteous were kept safe.

Indeed, thank you for proving my point. The wicked were taken in destruction, and the righteous were left alive.

Davy · Nov 30, 2020

Ziggy said:
The whole world is already deceived and has been since the new birth.
Even since Moses. Even since Abraham. Even since Adam.

I post Scripture fragments because certain people get upset when I make long posts for study.
Now you say they are too short..

What is that saying?
You can't please everyone all of the time..
aw well..

Peace

Scripture fragments isn't the same thing as just posting a limited number verses. It's the misuse of Scripture verses out of their context where they appear that creates the leaven Lord Jesus warned of. That's what your post does, creates leaven, because you tried to use those verses to support a theory.

You said:
"Well, there are 3 places.
1. in the Kingdom of God.
2. remain in the clouds
3. inherit the earth

And no matter where we find ourselves there will be Peace.
Personally I believe all 3 are in the believer. And wherever he is, there we are also."

"remain in the clouds" - "And wherever he is, there we are also", how you are using that is with your thinking on a false pre-trib rapture theory you learned from the deceived. Jesus isn't coming to remain in the clouds, He is coming back to this earth to the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. Zechariah 14 easily confirms this also. And that is when He comes to gather His Church, not sometime later like pre-trib lies about. He comes only one more time, not two.

That's abusing the John 14 Scripture, because the "mansions" (abodes) in God's House Lord Jesus mentioned are not up in the 'clouds'. They are on earth when He returns, in the holy land, manifested within His future Millennial sanctuary (Ezekiel 40 through 47).

We do not go and remain in the clouds. Nor are we in the clouds right now either! That kind of thinking is a huge leaven fragment not written, but comes from men's theory of a pre-trib rapture. It shows you don't really understand the meaning of what Paul taught in 1 Thess.4 about being "caught up" to meet The Lord in the "air". The KJV word "air" there is Greek aer, and can also point to the 'breath', referring to the 'breath of life' spirit God placed in our flesh. That is the body that is "caught up" when Jesus comes, our spiritual body. Apostle Paul even taught this in 1 Cor.15 and made it plain for the "last trump" event. And Christ's destination is back to this earth, per Acts 1 and Zechariah 14!

Timtofly · Nov 30, 2020

Truther said:
Yes, that is why I posted the OP.

It clarifies the saints are taken and sinners left behind, as Paul(1 Thes 4) quotes Jesus(Matt 24).

I know many Christians who have been taken while they left a loved one behind. Are you saying only the lost die now?

Timtofly · Nov 30, 2020

Truther said:
Wrong.

Paul quoted Jesus in sequence per the OP.

Now, Paul speaks of the catching away first,...
...we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,

Jesus says the same...
...Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Paul then speaks immediately about this....
...2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Then Jesus immediately speaks this...
..43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Then Paul speaks immediately about this...
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Then Jesus immediately speaks of this...
....49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken

Coincidence?

No, Paul quoted Matt 24 per 1 Thes 4.

Your eagle thingy doctrine was just fixed.

Sorry, but Jesus was talking about covid19 when he said one would be taken and one left behind. Taken is death, where the carcass is. Covid19 left thousands of mass graves with out funerals. Many families were split apart, both lost and saved, equally.

Davy · Nov 30, 2020

WaterSong said:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 And the dust returneth to the earth as it was, And the spirit returneth to God who gave it.

Yes, at flesh death, our silver cord is severed, and our spirit inside our flesh body separates from the flesh, and goes back to God in the heavenly, to Paradise. But our flesh goes back to the earthly material matter where it came from.

Like Jesus said in John 3, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

That verse right there even proves that our 'spirit' inside our flesh body is what is "born again" by Faith on Jesus Christ, so it cannot just mean some animating force that all living things have.

Truther · Nov 30, 2020

Timtofly said:
I know many Christians who have been taken while they left a loved one behind. Are you saying only the lost die now?

You know someone that was caught up per 1 Thes 4?

ReChoired · Nov 30, 2020

Taken:

2Pe_2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

WaterSong · Nov 30, 2020

Davy said:
Yes, at flesh death, our silver cord is severed, and our spirit inside our flesh body separates from the flesh, and goes back to God in the heavenly, to Paradise. But our flesh goes back to the earthly material matter where it came from.

Like Jesus said in John 3, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

That verse right there even proves that our 'spirit' inside our flesh body is what is "born again" by Faith on Jesus Christ, so it cannot just mean some animating force that all living things have.

Every living creature, not humans only, has the breath of life from God.
Genesis 2:7
Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living soul.

Genesis 1:30
And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

ReChoired · Nov 30, 2020

ReChoired said:
Taken:

2Pe_2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

Context?

As it was in the days of Noah & Lot:

2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

farouk · Nov 30, 2020

Timtofly said:
Sorry, but Jesus was talking about covid19 when he said one would be taken and one left behind. Taken is death, where the carcass is. Covid19 left thousands of mass graves with out funerals. Many families were split apart, both lost and saved, equally.

I don't think we should read into Scripture something that happens to have been in the news recently but is not referred to directly in Scripture.

Ziggy · Nov 30, 2020

Davy said:
Scripture fragments isn't the same thing as just posting a limited number verses. It's the misuse of Scripture verses out of their context where they appear that creates the leaven Lord Jesus warned of. That's what your post does, creates leaven, because you tried to use those verses to support a theory.

"remain in the clouds" - "And wherever he is, there we are also", how you are using that is with your thinking on a false pre-trib rapture theory you learned from the deceived. Jesus isn't coming to remain in the clouds, He is coming back to this earth to the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. Zechariah 14 easily confirms this also. And that is when He comes to gather His Church, not sometime later like pre-trib lies about. He comes only one more time, not two.

That's abusing the John 14 Scripture, because the "mansions" (abodes) in God's House Lord Jesus mentioned are not up in the 'clouds'. They are on earth when He returns, in the holy land, manifested within His future Millennial sanctuary (Ezekiel 40 through 47).

We do not go and remain in the clouds. Nor are we in the clouds right now either! That kind of thinking is a huge leaven fragment not written, but comes from men's theory of a pre-trib rapture. It shows you don't really understand the meaning of what Paul taught in 1 Thess.4 about being "caught up" to meet The Lord in the "air". The KJV word "air" there is Greek aer, and can also point to the 'breath', referring to the 'breath of life' spirit God placed in our flesh. That is the body that is "caught up" when Jesus comes, our spiritual body. Apostle Paul even taught this in 1 Cor.15 and made it plain for the "last trump" event. And Christ's destination is back to this earth, per Acts 1 and Zechariah 14!

I don't believe there is a "rapture" pre-post or inbetween.
I do believe when you die your spirit returns to God who gave it.
What that means after I leave this life, I don't know. I havent returned from the grave to talk about it.
And I do know that while I am on this earth I am living in His Kingdom and He is My King.
You bow down to whomever you want,
But for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord.
The mansions are where you keep your treasures...
But go learn what that meaneth..
And stop asuming you think you know me.

Truther · Nov 30, 2020

ReChoired said:
Taken:

2Pe_2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

Word play time....

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Timtofly · Dec 1, 2020

Truther said:
You know someone that was caught up per 1 Thes 4?

If two men were sleeping in the same bed as being married which one was forced to be a sinner that got taken? This in not about 1 Thessalonians 4. That is the point. Jesus was talking about death, not a rapture. They are taken to a pile of dead bodies. Luke 17:34-37

34 `I say to you, In that night, there shall be two men on one couch, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left;
35 two women shall be grinding at the same place together, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left;
36 two men shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left.'
37 And they answering say to him, `Where, sir?' and he said to them, `Where the body [is], there will the eagles be gathered together.'

Davy · Dec 1, 2020

WaterSong said:
Every living creature, not humans only, has the breath of life from God.
Genesis 2:7
Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living soul.

Genesis 1:30
And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

Animals don't have souls. God created man in His Image, not animals in His Image.

But primitive tribes of ancient pagans sure treated God like He was an animal, portraying Him as all kinds of abominable things.

Davy · Dec 1, 2020

Ziggy said:
I don't believe there is a "rapture" pre-post or inbetween.
I do believe when you die your spirit returns to God who gave it.
What that means after I leave this life, I don't know. I havent returned from the grave to talk about it.
And I do know that while I am on this earth I am living in His Kingdom and He is My King.
You bow down to whomever you want,
But for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord.
The mansions are where you keep your treasures...
But go learn what that meaneth..
And stop asuming you think you know me.

Me bow down to whomever I want? What kind of idiotic slur to me is that? Here I've been warning about the coming false-Christ that Lord Jesus warned His servants to not follow that one or believe on him, and you throw a slur of the devil at me as if I would bow in worship to that coming pseudo-Christ?!? You are simply MAD! Out of your mind! Nor do you have a clue what times we are in today, and nor are you willing to prepare yourself against the things Lord Jesus warned us against!! If anyone is going to fall away to bow to a fake-Messiah, it is YOU, because you are too busy playing religion to get into God's Word about these things He warned His Church for the end of this world!

So go on, have a ball playing religion, for that is all you are doing with His Word.

ReChoired · Dec 1, 2020

Truther said:
Word play time....

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

That's not the second coming. That's the close of probation. It is a matter of spiritual, not natural. The marriage takes place in Heaven before Jesus comes:

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Luk_19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Isa_13:5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

That text doesn't even say "taken" or "left". Yikes.

ReChoired · Dec 1, 2020

Davy said:
Animals don't have souls.

Living Animals are living souls:

Num_31:28 And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:

Rev_16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; Acts 17:25

In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind. Job 12:10

But if the priest buy any soul with his money, he shall eat of it, and he that is born in his house: they shall eat of his meat. Leviticus 22:11

See Joshua 10, in every instance where it is written that Joshua destroyed "all the souls that were therein":

"...he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein..." Joshua 10:28

"...he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it..." Joshua 10:30

"...and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein..." Joshua 10:32

"...smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein he utterly destroyed that day..." Joshua 10:35

And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining, according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that were therein. Joshau 10:37

"And he took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining..." Joshua 10:39

So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. Joshua 10:40

...just as Joshua did to Jericho, so he did to those cities, "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." Joshua 6:21

...just as Joshua did to Haxor, so he did to those cities, "And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them: there was not any left to breathe: and he burnt Hazor with fire." Joshua 11:11

Ziggy · Dec 1, 2020

Davy said:
you are too busy playing religion

What does this mean?

Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I wish more people were busy "playing" religion... only for real.

Davy said:
get into God's Word about these things He warned His Church for the end of this world!

So you rather I preach on fear rather than love?
Don't you think there is enough fear in the world right now though?
And how do you comfort people with fear?

And you know fear is not of God. And those who reside in Him are not fearful.

You know what's coming, and most people here already know what's coming.
Should we make people MORE fearful, or bring words of comfort and reassurance to each other?

Davy said:
You are simply MAD! Out of your mind!

If being out of My mind, and being in the peaceful mind of Christ, you consider that to be MAD!
Then count me in brother. Lock me up and throw away the key.
Because there is no where on earth, that I would rather be.

I make a deal with you..
I'll work on the fear thing if you work on peace and love.
For 3 days I will post nothing but fear, and for 3 days you post nothing but peace.

Deal?

One taken to heaven and the other left to face the Tribulation...

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