Understanding the Olivet Discourse

Timtofly said:

So pointing out the false idea of post trib is lying. I was not putting words in your mouth, unless you were offended and thought that. I was pointing out the general principle of post trib thought. Since you keep calling me a liar, if the truth fits, own up to it, instead of calling other posters liars.

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Timtofly said:
"The simple fact that Jesus says He is coming is proof of a rapture, because it happens the first time He appears."

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There's only TWO comings of Christ written of in God's Word, His 1st coming was to die on the cross. His 2nd coming will be to gather His Church and at the same time end this present world, and the tribulation, and do battle against His enemies, and then reign over all nations with His elect.

So when you say things like, "because it happens the first time He appears", that is automatically assuming He appears a 2nd time after that! No, He only appears once more in the future, not twice. But the Pre-trib Rapture Theory by man believes that Jesus will appear TWICE more, once more prior to the tribulation to rapture the Church, and then again after the tribulation in final.

In reality, you slipped up! You revealed that you really are NOT Post-trib, but that your are a Pre-trib Rapture believer.

And when I mentioned the event of Jesus warning His Church on the 6th Vial that He comes "as a thief", that was not saying His coming is on that 6th Vial! Thus you failed to comprehend what I wrote, but made your own false assumptions!

Davy said:

There's only TWO comings of Christ written of in God's Word, His 1st coming was to die on the cross. His 2nd coming will be to gather His Church and at the same time end this present world, and the tribulation, and do battle against His enemies, and then reign over all nations with His elect.

So when you say things like, "because it happens the first time He appears", that is automatically assuming He appears a 2nd time after that! No, He only appears once more in the future, not twice. But the Pre-trib Rapture Theory by man believes that Jesus will appear TWICE more, once more prior to the tribulation to rapture the Church, and then again after the tribulation in final.

In reality, you slipped up! You revealed that you really are NOT Post-trib, but that your are a Pre-trib Rapture believer.

And when I mentioned the event of Jesus warning His Church on the 6th Vial that He comes "as a thief", that was not saying His coming is on that 6th Vial! Thus you failed to comprehend what I wrote, but made your own false assumptions!

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I am pre trib if that means pre 7th seal. God on the throne and the Lamb are coming in the 6th Seal. The Lamb is here for the final harvest. The final harvest takes place during the Trumpets and Thunders. So yes, the Second Coming happens prior to most events during this time. The 7 vials happen at the end of the 42 months to Satan, the FP, and their image beast, who are in control of Jerusalem.

The church is raptured at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. The rapture does not happen at the battle of Armageddon.

Timtofly said:

I am pre trib if that means pre 7th seal. God on the throne and the Lamb are coming in the 6th Seal. The Lamb is here for the final harvest. The final harvest takes place during the Trumpets and Thunders. So yes, the Second Coming happens prior to most events during this time. The 7 vials happen at the end of the 42 months to Satan, the FP, and their image beast, who are in control of Jerusalem.

The church is raptured at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. The rapture does not happen at the battle of Armageddon.

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Christ's Olivet discourse, which the Pre-trib Rapture theory school refuses to follow, shows the last Sign is that of Christ's 2nd coming and gather of His saints. It is also at that moment per that when all the tribes of the earth will mourn from seeing His coming...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


In Revelation 16:15 on the 6th Vial, He warns His Church that He will come "as a thief".
On the 7th Vial is the day of His coming, and the battle of Armageddon.

The 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial are all the same timing of Christ's 2nd coming. The 7th Seal is written to show completion, and not a sequence.

The "day of the Lord" that will come "as a thief in the night" is the day Jesus was talking about with saying He comes "as a thief".

The "as a thief" idea is Jesus' idea about the day of His coming per the end of His Olivet discourse, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken into.

The "as a thief" idea and the "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night" linked with the "sudden destruction" in 1 Thess.5 is from the Old Testament prophets about the wicked and deceived being surprised on the day of Christ's 2nd coming.

Only those who actually studied their Old Testament Bible would know that is where Lord Jesus, Apostle Paul, Peter, and John were pulling from about the "as a thief" idea. That means, those who don't understand this reveal they have not done their Old Testament Bible study like they are supposed to.

Davy said:

Christ's Olivet discourse, which the Pre-trib Rapture theory school refuses to follow, shows the last Sign is that of Christ's 2nd coming and gather of His saints. It is also at that moment per that when all the tribes of the earth will mourn from seeing His coming...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


In Revelation 16:15 on the 6th Vial, He warns His Church that He will come "as a thief".
On the 7th Vial is the day of His coming, and the battle of Armageddon.

The 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial are all the same timing of Christ's 2nd coming. The 7th Seal is written to show completion, and not a sequence.

The "day of the Lord" that will come "as a thief in the night" is the day Jesus was talking about with saying He comes "as a thief".

The "as a thief" idea is Jesus' idea about the day of His coming per the end of His Olivet discourse, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken into.

The "as a thief" idea and the "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night" linked with the "sudden destruction" in 1 Thess.5 is from the Old Testament prophets about the wicked and deceived being surprised on the day of Christ's 2nd coming.

Only those who actually studied their Old Testament Bible would know that is where Lord Jesus, Apostle Paul, Peter, and John were pulling from about the "as a thief" idea. That means, those who don't understand this reveal they have not done their Old Testament Bible study like they are supposed to.

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The church is supposed to avoid the vials altogether. So why are you putting the church into Satan's 42 months? The whole warning was not to place the church there, the church is not even standing on the ground here: Revelation 6:15-17

15 Then the earth’s kings, the rulers, the generals, the rich and the mighty — indeed, everyone, slave and free — hid himself in caves and among the rocks in the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us, and hide us from the face of the One sitting on the throne and from the fury of the Lamb!
17 For the Great Day of their fury has come, and who can stand?”

This is not the battle of Armageddon. Christ as the Lamb has come to reap the final harvest. This is the time the Lamb will seal the 144k as His disciples. This is the Second Coming, not the 7th Trumpet. The Trumpets are the separation of the sheep from the goats. Then the Thunders, and then the 7th Trumpet. There are several years of the Lamb on the earth with the 144k disciples. The battle of Armageddon is the very last harvest of only those with the mark 666. No saints on earth after the image is brought to life, except 2 male witnesses. Any one refusing to recieve 666, must have their head chopped off. That is not enduring until the 7 vials, that is instant death. Any so called "saint" will be insisting on having their heads chopped off. All others will embrace the mark and worship Satan and his authority. Those people are killed at Armageddon. Then all of Adam's flesh will be no more. It is Revelation 13:7 that states the saints will be overcome.

7 it was allowed to make war on God’s holy people and to defeat them; and it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

There will be no witness of God period, but only the authority of Satan. Only the 2 witnesses will be a reminder of God. Christ is not on earth for 42 months, but does return to kill all humanity at the battle of Armageddon. And even the 2 witnesses lay dead for the 3.5 days the 7 vials are poured out onto the earth.

Timtofly said:

The church is supposed to avoid the vials altogether. So why are you putting the church into Satan's 42 months? The whole warning was not to place the church there, the church is not even standing on the ground here: Revelation 6:15-17

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Let's rephrase what you just said there based on your source from men...

According to men's doctrine of Pre-tribulationalsim, the church is supposed to avoid the vials altogether.

That's what you really mean to say. So let's be honest, your interpretation on the vials in Revelation comes from them, and not from strictly staying in God's Word.

When you care to be honest with me about the matter, then I'd be glad to help you in Bible study about the endtimes.

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV

Davy said:

Let's rephrase what you just said there based on your source from men...

According to men's doctrine of Pre-tribulationalsim, the church is supposed to avoid the vials altogether.

That's what you really mean to say. So let's be honest, your interpretation on the vials in Revelation comes from them, and not from strictly staying in God's Word.

When you care to be honest with me about the matter, then I'd be glad to help you in Bible study about the endtimes.

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV

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No, John wrote Revelation 6. It did not just suddenly appear in Scripture in the last 100 years.

What you are saying is let's pretend Revelation 6 does not exist to cover the bad theology of the last 100 years.

Explain how the battle of Armageddon is a surprise event no one is prepared for when it states:

13 And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs; they came from the mouth of the dragon, from the mouth of the beast and from the mouth of the false prophet.
14 They are miracle-working demonic spirits which go out to the kings of the whole inhabited world to assemble them for the War of the Great Day of Adonai-Tzva’ot.

Or are verses 13 and 14 also a modern invention that has suddenly appeared in Scripture?

A white horse with an army following coming to do battle with 10 kings, the FP, the beast, and Satan at the battle of Armageddon is your rapture moment?

The church is supposed to avoid Satan, the vials are just an added benefit.

Did some avoid both the mark and beheading? How does that work? Who is in the Temple with God in Revelation 7, before the 7th Seal is opened? Who are these that are not sheep, Matthew 25:31-47? Who are these who are not wheat already harvested before the 7th Trumpet? Who are these not defeated by the FP Revelation 13:7? Who are these who escaped both the mark and getting their head cut off? How are they avoiding God removing them from the earth? Do they stand on the earth, next to the battlefield, watching the battle as they still seem to be there?

Timtofly said:

No, John wrote Revelation 6. It did not just suddenly appear in Scripture in the last 100 years.

What you are saying is let's pretend Revelation 6 does not exist to cover the bad theology of the last 100 years.

Explain how the battle of Armageddon is a surprise event no one is prepared for when it states:

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You are just way out... in left field, those Pre-tribulationalists have you so confused. The Seals of Rev.6 parallel the 7 Signs Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse, and I cover those Seals along with Christ's Signs He gave in His Olivet discourse all the time. So you need to stop making up lies against me that I pretend Rev.6 does not exist to cover bad theology, etc. That's a stupid argument.

One of your huge mistakes from men's traditions is one most make with study of Revelation. They wrongly think all the signs given actually happen per Chapter order like they're written down. That is not true. The Revelation Seals, Trumpets, and Vials are only about the 7 main Signs of the end of this world that Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. His Revelation simply gives us more info about those same Signs, especially Rev.6. This is why the day of Jesus' 2nd coming to end this world is given on the 6th Seal, and on the 7th Trumpet, and on the 7th Vial. Those are all parallels of each other.

The battle of Armageddon is the 'final' battle for Jerusalem that is to happen on the last day of this world with Jesus' return. It is specifically timed with the "day of the Lord" per the Zechariah 14 chapter. It was first prophesied in the Old Testament prophet Zephaniah...

Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.
9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
KJV

Or are verses 13 and 14 also a modern invention that has suddenly appeared in Scripture?

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Your silly reasoning from men's traditions isn't up to par with God's Word. Apostle Peter also taught that Zeph.3:8 idea of God's consuming fire burning the elements of men's works off the earth on the "day of the Lord", which means the final day of this world when Jesus' only time of coming will happen (2 Peter 3:10). Apostle Paul taught about the "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night" also. So YOUR mocking Jesus when He said He "comes as a thief" within that 6th Vial timing, and then the final event of the "day of the Lord" happens with the battle of Armageddon, is actually a flat... denial of that Rev.16:15-17 Scripture.

But that's exactly what Pre-tribulationalists do all the time, deny written Scripture, just as you have done with that Rev.16 passage I showed.

A white horse with an army following coming to do battle with 10 kings, the FP, the beast, and Satan at the battle of Armageddon is your rapture moment?

The church is supposed to avoid Satan, the vials are just an added benefit.

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The more you keep denying the Scripture as written, the more silly your words appear.

Jesus said He comes "as a thief". Where did that 'as a thief' idea first appear? He taught it, in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

He gave that as a thief metaphor in relation to the day of His coming! And what's really... funny, is how Pre-tribulationalism wrongly uses that 'as a thief in the night' metaphor to try and show that Jesus will come prior to the tribulation to rapture the Church, and then they TRY to move the "day of the Lord" timing backward to before the tribulation! That's funny, and a gross misapplication of God's written Word, because the ONLY time of the "day of the Lord" onetime event is on the FINAL DAY of this world, which is when Jesus comes to gather His 'faithful' Church. So don't try to tell me you believe in a Pre-trib Rapture and don't hear those churches using that 'as a thief in the night' metaphor all the time.

Here's Scripture in relation to what Jesus said that He comes "as a thief" which YOU DENY...

1 Thess 5:2-4
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
KJV

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV

Davy said:

You are just way out... in left field, those Pre-tribulationalists have you so confused. The Seals of Rev.6 parallel the 7 Signs Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse, and I cover those Seals along with Christ's Signs He gave in His Olivet discourse all the time. So you need to stop making up lies against me that I pretend Rev.6 does not exist to cover bad theology, etc. That's a stupid argument.

One of your huge mistakes from men's traditions is one most make with study of Revelation. They wrongly think all the signs given actually happen per Chapter order like they're written down. That is not true. The Revelation Seals, Trumpets, and Vials are only about the 7 main Signs of the end of this world that Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. His Revelation simply gives us more info about those same Signs, especially Rev.6. This is why the day of Jesus' 2nd coming to end this world is given on the 6th Seal, and on the 7th Trumpet, and on the 7th Vial. Those are all parallels of each other.

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This is what all eschatology teaches. Even pre-trib. You are not unique. Even amil teaches this.

You all are wrong.

Davy said:

The battle of Armageddon is the 'final' battle for Jerusalem that is to happen on the last day of this world with Jesus' return. It is specifically timed with the "day of the Lord" per the Zechariah 14 chapter. It was first prophesied in the Old Testament prophet Zephaniah...

Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.
9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
KJV



Your silly reasoning from men's traditions isn't up to par with God's Word. Apostle Peter also taught that Zeph.3:8 idea of God's consuming fire burning the elements of men's works off the earth on the "day of the Lord", which means the final day of this world when Jesus' only time of coming will happen (2 Peter 3:10). Apostle Paul taught about the "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night" also. So YOUR mocking Jesus when He said He "comes as a thief" within that 6th Vial timing, and then the final event of the "day of the Lord" happens with the battle of Armageddon, is actually a flat... denial of that Rev.16:15-17 Scripture.

But that's exactly what Pre-tribulationalists do all the time, deny written Scripture, just as you have done with that Rev.16 passage I showed.

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Once again, you are teaching man's traditions, not me. Nor do I contradict any prophecy, OT or NT. The fire of refinement happens over a period of years. The problem with all eschatology is they want it over in 60 seconds. Especially modern humanity, because they are programmed to be instant and have everything over immediately.

Davy said:

The more you keep denying the Scripture as written, the more silly your words appear.

Jesus said He comes "as a thief". Where did that 'as a thief' idea first appear? He taught it, in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

He gave that as a thief metaphor in relation to the day of His coming! And what's really... funny, is how Pre-tribulationalism wrongly uses that 'as a thief in the night' metaphor to try and show that Jesus will come prior to the tribulation to rapture the Church, and then they TRY to move the "day of the Lord" timing backward to before the tribulation! That's funny, and a gross misapplication of God's written Word, because the ONLY time of the "day of the Lord" onetime event is on the FINAL DAY of this world, which is when Jesus comes to gather His 'faithful' Church. So don't try to tell me you believe in a Pre-trib Rapture and don't hear those churches using that 'as a thief in the night' metaphor all the time.

Here's Scripture in relation to what Jesus said that He comes "as a thief" which YOU DENY...

1 Thess 5:2-4
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
KJV

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV

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Satan's 42 months is defined as the great tribulation where?

The tribulation starts with the 1st Seal. Then it progresses, with each new event. No NT writer declared readers to decide if they are post, pre, or any time. That is all contrived modern human imagination. Thus eschatology.

I guess since no one knows, all will just have to be as surprised and shocked with the rest of humanity. Since the Second Coming is not what any one here is expecting, all teach error, and then they think other verses support their error.

All verses support the Second Coming. No one knows the timing because unless God shows them the exact word recipe, they are lost with the words that are there.

The error is instant recipe, thus instant results. Try explaining instant to a first century reader, who only knew soon. People today mock the word soon, and then turn around and use instant. The only thing instant will be the rapture and change in midair. Something that seems to be lost today, because they think the whole Second Coming is instant.

To God the last 7000 years is instant. To humanity, they declared billions of years. Then eschatology fails to see that God really does no earthly process instantly. Sorry but 42 months is not even the Great Trib, unless one can prove it from Scripture. And the Second Coming is over at the 7th Trumpet, it does not start at the end of the 7th Trumpet. How can the first 6 Trumpets parallel the last seconds of the 7th Trumpet? That would make the 7th Trumpet the first Trumpet and the other 6, happens in a few seconds and the 6th Trumpet would be the 7th Trumpet. You all contradict your own eschatology, by not starting at the beginning, but tacking on the Second Coming as a last minute decision.

Sure it is all over when the 7th Trumpet stops. Does not mean the earth or reality is gone. It just means all humanity is dead. They all did not die in 60 seconds. 25% died in the 4th Seal, 33% die during the Trumpets, many more die in the Thunders, many must die by getting their head chopped off. How do you all put that in 60 seconds?

The Seals, Trumpets, Thunders, and Satan’s 42 months are not just signs. The 6th Seal is the exact sign of the Lamb coming to earth. God will also be here as the Lord of the vineyard. People are not Watching a TV show broadcast from heaven with God working remotely. The Second Coming is God on earth during this time of tribulation. Christ was on earth the first time of Jacob's trouble. This time is not any different on Christ being on the earth. What is different is all humanity must die and God is sending the trouble, not the Romans. That God allows Satan 42 months on earth in full control will not be tribulation for the church nor the nation of Israel. It is for all those who worship Satan to have fun the last 42 months of humanity. They can go hog wild, pun intended.

Timtofly said:

This is what all eschatology teaches. Even pre-trib. You are not unique. Even amil teaches this.

You all are wrong.

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No, Pre-trib does not teach that the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials are in a type parallel. They instead teach that all the Seals happen first, then the Trumpets happen next, and then Vials lastly, which is the way John wrote down the vision, but it's not exactly the order the events happen.

Once again, you are teaching man's traditions, not me. Nor do I contradict any prophecy, OT or NT. The fire of refinement happens over a period of years. The problem with all eschatology is they want it over in 60 seconds. Especially modern humanity, because they are programmed to be instant and have everything over immediately.

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That couldn't be farther from the truth. The "day of the Lord" happens ONLY on the final day of this world, which is when Jesus returns to gather His 'faithful' Church; you know, those who are 'left behind' that did not... gather to where the fowls feast on the dead (Luke 17).

Satan's 42 months is defined as the great tribulation where?

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It's very simple. Revelation 13:4-8 shows the devil ("dragon") is given power 42 months over all nations and peoples.

The tribulation starts with the 1st Seal. Then it progresses, with each new event. No NT writer declared readers to decide if they are post, pre, or any time. That is all contrived modern human imagination. Thus eschatology.

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Pre-trib wrongly teaches that by the end of the Revelation 4 chapter, the Church is already raptured to Heaven by Jesus.

The 1st Seal is a description of the coming pseud-Christ of Matthew 24:23-26. It is a mimic of Christ's coming on a white horse. But that doesn't happen until the time of the "abomination of desolation" is setup. Pre-trib believes the Church is already raptured by that point of time. So what all you say is contrived is actually meaningless.

I guess since no one knows, all will just have to be as surprised and shocked with the rest of humanity. Since the Second Coming is not what any one here is expecting, all teach error, and then they think other verses support their error.

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No man knows the specific day or hour of Christ's coming, like He said. Yet He gave His faithful servants the Signs leading up to the day of His coming, and that is different. One who knows the Signs still doesn't know what day that will be. But they are more prepared and ready for His coming, because the main reason He gave them is so His faithful would not be deceived just prior to His coming, because the first supernatural messiah coming will be a fake. And Jesus commanded His faithful servants to 'watch', meaning to watch those Signs He gave. He did not say please watch either; He said to all, Watch; He gave that by Commandment (Mark 13).


The rest of your post is just going on one rant after another, not proving anything Scripturaly.

Davy said:

No, Pre-trib does not teach that the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials are in a type parallel. They instead teach that all the Seals happen first, then the Trumpets happen next, and then Vials lastly, which is the way John wrote down the vision, but it's not exactly the order the events happen.



That couldn't be farther from the truth. The "day of the Lord" happens ONLY on the final day of this world, which is when Jesus returns to gather His 'faithful' Church; you know, those who are 'left behind' that did not... gather to where the fowls feast on the dead (Luke 17).



It's very simple. Revelation 13:4-8 shows the devil ("dragon") is given power 42 months over all nations and peoples.




Pre-trib wrongly teaches that by the end of the Revelation 4 chapter, the Church is already raptured to Heaven by Jesus.

The 1st Seal is a description of the coming pseud-Christ of Matthew 24:23-26. It is a mimic of Christ's coming on a white horse. But that doesn't happen until the time of the "abomination of desolation" is setup. Pre-trib believes the Church is already raptured by that point of time. So what all you say is contrived is actually meaningless.



No man knows the specific day or hour of Christ's coming, like He said. Yet He gave His faithful servants the Signs leading up to the day of His coming, and that is different. One who knows the Signs still doesn't know what day that will be. But they are more prepared and ready for His coming, because the main reason He gave them is so His faithful would not be deceived just prior to His coming, because the first supernatural messiah coming will be a fake. And Jesus commanded His faithful servants to 'watch', meaning to watch those Signs He gave. He did not say please watch either; He said to all, Watch; He gave that by Commandment (Mark 13).


The rest of your post is just going on one rant after another, not proving anything Scripturaly.

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All teach the Second Coming is after Satan's 42 months. And Satan given authority does not mean tribulation. Satan is an angel of light and gave us modern science and all technology. Has the last 500 years been tribulation?

Timtofly said:

All teach the Second Coming is after Satan's 42 months.

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No they don't, because the time of the coming by Christ to gather His Church 'prior' to the tribulation is a false idea. Pre-trib tries to ADD another coming in between Christ's 1st coming and 2nd coming. There are only 2, His 1st coming was meek as a Lamb to be slain upon His cross. His 2nd coming will be to gather His faithful Church on the last day of this world and do battle against His enemies on earth. This is why in Revelation 16:15, on the 6th Vial, He warns His Church that He comes "as a thief", and then the next event there is the gathering of the nations for the battle of Armageddon. Same timing is given in Zechariah 14 for the "day of the Lord" for His 2nd coming, and that battle. Furthermore, the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture is clear that His coming and gathering of the saints is AFTER... the great tribulation.

Davy said:

No they don't, because the time of the coming by Christ to gather His Church 'prior' to the tribulation is a false idea. Pre-trib tries to ADD another coming in between Christ's 1st coming and 2nd coming. There are only 2, His 1st coming was meek as a Lamb to be slain upon His cross. His 2nd coming will be to gather His faithful Church on the last day of this world and do battle against His enemies on earth. This is why in Revelation 16:15, on the 6th Vial, He warns His Church that He comes "as a thief", and then the next event there is the gathering of the nations for the battle of Armageddon. Same timing is given in Zechariah 14 for the "day of the Lord" for His 2nd coming, and that battle. Furthermore, the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture is clear that His coming and gathering of the saints is AFTER... the great tribulation.

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So you agree with everyone one else on the timing of the Second Coming?

That is what I said, everyone.

That is not the Second Coming.

Timtofly said:

So you agree with everyone one else on the timing of the Second Coming?

That is what I said, everyone.

That is not the Second Coming.

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Only 2 Comings by Lord Jesus, Not 3

Davy said:

Only 2 Comings by Lord Jesus, Not 3

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So when is the Second Coming in your interpretation? Do you have an issue with God and Christ coming and going? It really does not bother me that much.