The Fourth beast of Revelation

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Davy

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Puzzling how something so obvious can be so elusive. Consider the word "oil". It could mean some type of anointing; or cooking as with Elisha and the widow; or medicinal; or perfume. But as soon as you add the depiction of a crankshaft and pistons, the context becomes abundantly clear.

And so too with the various aspects in Rev. 13 & 17, given the depictions in Dan. 2 & 7:

1. Gold, Babylon
2. Silver, Medo/Persia
3. Bronze, Greece
4. Iron, Rome
-- Clay, "divided kingdom"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.
-- 6. Bear, Russia
-- 7. Leopard (actually a "TIGER"), China
-- 8. Dreadful, United Nations​

And thus we should understand why Rev. 12 says SEVEN Diadems, but Rev. 13 says TEN Diadems; WHICH nation is "mortally wounded" and HOW it's "mortally wounded"; WHY the LION is the MOUTH; WHY the LEOPARD (actually a "TIGER") is the BODY; and WHY the BEAR is the FEET; and why the U.N. "was and is not", -- among other things.

So now we should know what type of "oil" and needn't speculate as to it's significance, -- etc.

Bobby Jo

And yet another faulty view.

The leopard symbol represented Alexander's Greece. The Lion/Eagle represented ancient Babylon empire. The bear represented the Medo-Persian empire. The "dreadful" label is just a moniker for the final beast kingdom, the 5th one of feet of ten toes of part iron and part clay.

The Rev.12:3-4 beast of seven crowns was about a beast kingdom of old under Satan as that "red dragon" in the old world. The reason is because its description is tied to the event when Satan drew a third of the stars (angels) to earth in rebellion with him. That did not happen in this present world. By the time of Adam and Even, Satan had already rebelled against God and was in his role as adversary.

It's the Rev.13:1 beast of ten crowns that is for the end of this present world.
 

Davy

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The beast in Revelation 13 is neither red nor scarlet, but is a composite of three beasts. But has the 7 heads/ten horns. Which would indicate that beast has an affiliation with Satan.

The Rev.13:1 beast that comes out of the 'sea' is a kingdom beast. That's why it is describing have ten horns (ten kings), seven heads (seven mountains), and ten crowns. The next Rev.13:2 verse points back to Daniel 7 about the kingdom beasts that were history, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, Rome.

But the "another beast" of Rev.13:11-14 that comes up out of the 'earth', and appears like a lamb, but speaks as a dragon, and works great signs and miracles in the sight of men, is Satan himself, here on earth in Jerusalem for the end, in person. He is coming as the pseudo-Christ Jesus warned of, as the "man of sin" Paul warned of. As "antichrist" that John said the brethren had heard shall come.

Thus there are TWO BEASTS mentioned in Rev.13. One is the beast kingdom, and the other is the beast king, both concepts first given in the Book of Daniel.
 

Douggg

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The Rev.13:1 beast that comes out of the 'sea' is a kingdom beast. That's why it is describing have ten horns (ten kings), seven heads (seven mountains), and ten crowns. The next Rev.13:2 verse points back to Daniel 7 about the kingdom beasts that were history, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, Rome.
Yes, the beast that comes out of the sea is a kingdom, but not just a kingdom only, but the kingdom of the beast person represented by the first beast, the eighth king of Revelation 17:11.

Davy, think of the first beast as head and body.

The body - the beast's empire
The head speaking blasphemies - the beast person


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But the "another beast" of Rev.13:11-14 that comes up out of the 'earth', and appears like a lamb, but speaks as a dragon, and works great signs and miracles in the sight of men, is Satan himself, here on earth in Jerusalem for the end, in person. He is coming as the pseudo-Christ Jesus warned of, as the "man of sin" Paul warned of. As "antichrist" that John said the brethren had heard shall come.
Not Satan, but speaks on behalf of Satan. The second beast (the false prophet) and the first beast (the person) are going to be cast alive into the lake of fire, at Jesus's return. Differently, Satan is going to be cast into the bottomless pit.

You should go to Ezekiel 28:16-19 and you can see why the second beast is not Satan.

When Jesus returns, there will be the beast (the first beast), and the false prophet (the second beast), and the living, speaking, image of the first beast on the temple mount grounds.


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Davy

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Yes, the beast that comes out of the sea is a kingdom, but not just a kingdom only, but the kingdom of the beast person represented by the first beast, the eighth king of Revelation 17:11.

No, the 1st beast out of the 'sea' of Rev.13:1-2 is not specifically about the person of the Antichrist. It is about his beast kingdom. The KJV translators didn't clarify the personal pronoun of "his" and "him", simply because what Apostle John saw with this first beast in symbolic form.

Rev 13:1-3
13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.


2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.


3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

KJV

Those personal pronouns in the Greek can just as easily be generic "it", not referring to a specific person. The fact that the English translation does that has deluded many. The reason why we are to recognize this is because Lord Jesus gave the next verse 2 to better show us just what kind of beast He was revealing in that Rev.13:1 verse...

Rev 13:2
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
KJV


That above takes us to Daniel 7 and the beast kingdoms described there. But that's not all, Jesus also gave us more detail in the Rev.17 chapter about this 1st beast that rises out of the waters of the sea, that has "ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns". He connected the "waters" which the "great whore" sits upon with the "ten horns" and "seven heads" of that 1st beast. And then later in Rev.17:15 the "waters" are defined as "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues". Now a person is not that "ten horns", "seven heads", and "ten crowns", nor those "waters" (or "sea"). So it's very important to recognize this 1st beast of Rev.13:1 is about Antichrist's beast 'kingdom' specifically.

Davy, think of the first beast as head and body.

The body - the beast's empire
The head speaking blasphemies - the beast person

I'm well familiar with the symbols in Daniel which God gave Neb about a beast statue image of different parts. I understand how the whole statue image relates to the Antichrist. But we are to also understand those pieces as independent empires that would come, and that means 'kingdoms'. In Daniel 4, which was written by king Nebuchadnezzar by the way after he repented to God, that Chapter reveals how God punished Neb in making him mentally believe he was a literal animal beast, and he lived among the animals for a time under that punishment. That is specifically the idea of Neb as a 'beast king'.

The Daniel 7 Chapter describes the concept of the 'beast king' also, mentioning the "little horn" that comes up among the ten horns. But there again, God is using the idea of 'horns' to describe a part of the beast 'kingdom' system.

The "seven heads" are defined in Rev.17:9 too, as "seven mountains". Sorry, but those "seven mountains" are not about the Antichrist beast king. They are about seven areas on the earth. And one of those seven areas once suffered a "deadly wound". Not the Antichrist, but a certain one of the "seven mountains". (I do not point to Rome with that "seven mountains" symbol to mean seven hills. Jerusalem has seven hills too, so that's not enough of a descriptor).

Furthermore, the "seven heads" are also mentioned with the beast kingdom of Rev.12:3-4 which is given along with the timing when Satan first drew a third of the angels to earth with him in rebellion. We cannot simply detach that Scripture event of his drawing a third of the stars to earth with him from that beast kingdom mentioned there, which only had "seven crowns" by the way. Just because many don't understand what Satan did in that old world when he first rebelled in the beginning doesn't mean to try and push that being about the end of this world with the final version of that in Rev.13:1 that is to have "ten crowns".
 

Douggg

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Rev 13:2
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
KJV
Davy, where is the mouth like a lion located on the beast, that speaks the blasphemies in Revelation 13:5 ? In the beast's tail ? In the beast's feet?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

______________________________________________

for example, the United States is a kingdom. Is the president of the United States, the head of the United States kingdom, who speaks great things?

The first beast in Revelation 13 is a kingdom (the EU). And there is a head of that kingdom, a person (the dictator of the EU) ... that will speak the blasphemies.
 
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Davy

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Not Satan, but speaks on behalf of Satan. The second beast (the false prophet) and the first beast (the person) are going to be cast alive into the lake of fire, at Jesus's return. Differently, Satan is going to be cast into the bottomless pit.

The "another beast", a 2nd beast described in Rev.13, is about a singular entity, a person, the coming Antichrist-false Messiah.

It's about the same one of Matthew 24:23-26 that is to work the great signs and wonders in Jerusalem for the end which Lord Jesus warned us about in His Olivet discourse (we're supposed to remember what we studied before). He was warning of the coming Antichrist as 'a spurious Messiah' (Dr. James Strong's definition of "false Christs"). That is what the Rev.13:11-14 verses shows him doing, along with setting up an idol abomination in false worship like the king of Babylon did in Daniel's day. That "another beast" is about the "man of sin" that Apostle Paul warned of in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9. All those Bible descriptions about a false one at the end of this world is about the same one, Satan himself when he is booted out of the heavenly down to our earth, with his angels, at the end of this world.

The concept that this is about the "false prophet" of Rev.16 and 19 is a leaven fragment from men, i.e., incomplete fragmented understanding.

The "false prophet" and "beast" that go into the "lake of fire" at Jesus' coming show those are only ROLES that Satan as Antichrist will play. The reason is because ONLY Satan and his angels are already judged and sentenced to perish in the future lake of fire, that fire especially having been prepared for him (Matthew 25:41). No flesh man has been judged yet today, not even Judas, even though we may think he is doomed. That decision who perishes is not ours, but Christ's only, and He has yet to make that decision for anyone born in the flesh. So because the false prophet and beast go into the lake of fire before the Judgement, that means those cannot mean flesh men. They are only character roles that Satan as that "another beast" will play. The most important point to grasp about the "another beast" then is how it is pointing directly to Satan himself coming to work signs and miracles to deceive the whole world with, just like the Rev.13:4-8 working also shows about the "dragon". And it does say the whole world (excepting Christ's elect) will worship the "dragon". And per Rev.12:9 the "dragon" we are told is but another one of Satan's many titles. And the "beast" title is also applied to Satan in Scripture like Rev.11:7 and Rev.17:8, etc.

You should go to Ezekiel 28:16-19 and you can see why the second beast is not Satan.

I have studied the whole Book of Ezekiel, and the Ezek.28 & 31 chapters several times over. And that does not prove that Satan is not the "another beast" of Rev.13:11.

What Ezekiel 28 shows with using the flesh king and prince of Tyrus, is God uses them as 'types' for Satan in the world before this one when Satan was originally 'perfect in his ways' as a covering cherub with serving God, and then he rebelled against God. The Ezekiel 31 chapter, which goes with that kind of parable in Ezek.28 further describes that time before Satan rebelled using the idea of the high tree and trees in God's Garden, God using the Assyrian and Pharaoh as types for Satan like He did in Ezek.28 with the king and prince of Tyrus (means 'rock' by the way, the false "rock" of Deuteronomy 32:31, which is a direct pointer to Satan in contrast to the True "Rock", our Heavenly Father).

When Jesus returns, there will be the beast (the first beast), and the false prophet (the second beast), and the living, speaking, image of the first beast on the temple mount grounds.

I know some brethren like that slogan of the 'unholy trinity' with that idea, but that's simply not written in God's Word. It's an idea started by Satan's host, for they love to create little slogans and advertising phrases to deceive with.

Again, the "false prophet" and "beast" of Rev.16 & 19 are simply ROLES applied to Satan's coming working as the "another beast", a 2nd beast, working great signs and miracles, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men to deceive. The "image of the beast" will most likely involve a TV video image of the idol in Jerusalem, for that definitely in Jesus' day would be how they would see a working television 2,000 years ago. In Rev.11 when God's two witnesses are killed, it is shown there that the nations will 'see' their dead bodies left laying in the street. How will the world see that? That event reveals it could not come to pass until we had satellite technology. Everyone's got a cell phone today, even in the middle east.
 

Base12

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What Most Prophecy scholars and novices miss is that there is a fourth beast as well...
If this 'Fourth Beast' was thrown into the Lake of Fire, I would be inclined to believe you...

Revelation 20:10
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."


He ascends from the bottomless pit, while the first beast rises from the sea...

The Bottomless Pit and Sea are referring to the same thing. They represent Conception inside of the Womb of Creation...

Revelation 17:15
"And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

The Dragon represents the Phallus (think Seed of the Serpent). The 'water' flowing out of its mouth is...

full


Revelation 12:15
"And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood."


Put it together...

2 Samuel 22:5
"When the waves of death compassed me, the floods of ungodly men made me afraid;"

Psalms 18:4
"The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid."


The 'Devil'...

full
 
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David H.

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If this 'Fourth Beast' was thrown into the Lake of Fire, I would be inclined to believe you...

Revelation 20:10
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Know ye not that we shall judge angels? (1 Cor. 6:3)
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:6)
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (2 Peter 2:4)
And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. (Rev. 17:16-17)

The Fallen angels that are locked in the bottomless pit will be loosed for a time before their judgement, they will make war with Lamb and the saints and the saints will overcome that beast. Compare this with the beast of Revelation 13, who makes war on the saints and overcomes them. So here we see two different time periods, one where the beast of revelation 13 is overcoming the saints, and the other where the Lamb is fighting with the saints and overcoming the beast. Two different time periods, two different beasts. To Mix the two is to make a mistake, and create confusion as to the identities of each. The First is a man empowered by Satan, the second a fallen angel released by God to accomplish his will and judgment against the whore and then to be judged themselves.
 

David H.

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If this 'Fourth Beast' was thrown into the Lake of Fire, I would be inclined to believe you...
Notice also, in Revelation 6:8 Death and Hell are the riders on the pale horse, they are capitalized as in their names.
IMO they should also be capitalized in Revelation 20:13-14.
 

Base12

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Notice also, in Revelation 6:8 Death and Hell are the riders on the pale horse, they are capitalized as in their names.
IMO they should also be capitalized in Revelation 20:13-14.

Here is something I find interesting about the first verse you referenced...

Revelation 6:8
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."


You assume that Hell was riding the same horse, but was he? How exactly did Hell follow? Was there a fifth horse?

I believe there was a fifth horse, but not in the way One would think...

Job 38:17
"Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?"


Hell is the 'shadow' of Death. It follows because that's what shadows do. Hell is two dimensional. It is the 'underworld' of lower dimensions.

In a similar manner, we live in the 'shadow' of higher dimensions...

Hebrews 8:5
"Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount."


4D casts a 3D shadow...

 

Davy

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Davy, where is the mouth like a lion located on the beast, that speaks the blasphemies in Revelation 13:5 ? In the beast's tail ? In the beast's feet?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

You've got to go back to the Book of Daniel about that verse, because that's where that idea of one who speaks blasphemies was first mentioned...

Dan 7:8
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

KJV

Dan 7:11
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

KJV

Dan 7:24-25
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
KJV

Dan 11:36
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

KJV

Per Daniel 7, that is about the "little horn" king that arises among the ten kings. It is the "vile person" of Daniel 11:21 that makes a "league" with a small group of leaders in Jerusalem, and he also ends sacrifices in Jerusalem for the coming tribulation and instead places the abomination that makes desolate. I really don't know how you could miss this from the Book of Daniel.

for example, the United States is a kingdom. Is the president of the United States, the head of the United States kingdom, who speaks great things?

The first beast in Revelation 13 is a kingdom (the EU). And there is a head of that kingdom, a person (the dictator of the EU) ... that will speak the blasphemies.

You've left The Word of God completely with that speculation from either Preterists or Historicists, both pretty much the same nowdays.
 

David H.

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Hell is the 'shadow' of Death. It follows because that's what shadows do. Hell is two dimensional. It is the 'underworld' of lower dimensions.

Both heaven and hell, and the Spiritual world in general are on a higher dimension than we can see, and we can only see shadows of these things. The Demonic world is invisible to most save those who are given the eyesalve of God to see. The same can be said of the light of the Holy Spirit, which is invisible to most, only in extreme examples are some given eyes to see this such as the apostles who were present at the transfiguration, and the Jews who saw Moses radiating from being in the presence of God, Or Elisha seeing Elijah ascend into the whirlwind. In that respect the Sagan video is an interesting take on this, But we are not speaking of physical dimensions, but the Spiritual world, where Jesus could walk through walls, or appear and disappear at will to Apostles and eat with them or speak with them.
 

Douggg

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You've got to go back to the Book of Daniel about that verse, because that's where that idea of one who speaks blasphemies was first mentioned...

Per Daniel 7, that is about the "little horn" king that arises among the ten kings. It is the "vile person" of Daniel 11:21 that makes a "league" with a small group of leaders in Jerusalem, and he also ends sacrifices in Jerusalem for the coming tribulation and instead places the abomination that makes desolate. I really don't know how you could miss this from the Book of Daniel.
Given all that is said in Daniel 7, let's get back to Revelation 13 and my question...

"Davy, where is the mouth like a lion located on the beast, that speaks the blasphemies in Revelation 13:5 ? In the beast's tail ? In the beast's feet?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."

Allow me to simplify even further, where is your mouth located ?
 

Bobby Jo

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...where is the mouth like a lion...? In the beast's tail ? In the beast's feet? ...

WHO SAID "tail"?!? Did Scripture say "tail" or are you adding to the Book, where there's penalties for doing such???


If you ain't solved for ALL THREE, you ain't solved for NONE:

1. Mouth/Lion
2. Body/Leopard (actually a "TIGER")
3. Feet/Bear


Interpret all three, or go home.
Bobby Jo
 

Douggg

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WHO SAID "tail"?!? Did Scripture say "tail" or are you adding to the Book, where there's penalties for doing such???


If you ain't solved for ALL THREE, you ain't solved for NONE:

1. Mouth/Lion
2. Body/Leopard (actually a "TIGER")
3. Feet/Bear


Interpret all three, or go home.
Bobby Jo
BJ, it seems like you are never able to answer a question.
 

Bobby Jo

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QUOTE Bobby Jo:
WHO SAID "tail"?!? Did Scripture say "tail" or are you adding to the Book, where there's penalties for doing such???

If you ain't solved for ALL THREE, you ain't solved for NONE:

1. Mouth/Lion
2. Body/Leopard (actually a "TIGER")
3. Feet/Bear
Interpret all three, or go home.


QUOTE Douggg:
BJ, it seems like you are never able to answer a question.


... said the man who DIDN'T, CAN'T, and WON'T answer a question ...

Whew,
Bobby Jo
 

Bobby Jo

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Doug, He is our resident scoffer, who thinks Pence and trump are the two witnesses, You would be better off just putting him on ignore.

IGNORE, -- is a wonderful solution for those who are BLIND:

Matt. 15:13 He answered, “Every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. 14 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.


Watch that FIRST STEP!
Bobby Jo
 

Bobby Jo

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Thanks, done.

Matt. 15:13 He answered, “Every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. 14 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”

Good luck,
Bobby Jo


To All,
1 Jhn 4 says to "try the spirits and see if they be of GOD", but this is speaking to Christians. Conversely, Hsea 4:6 says "my people perish for lack of knowledge". And finally, Matt. 15:13 says to let "the blind leads the blind, and both fall into the pit".

But equally important, Matt. 15 also stipulates to "LET THEM ALONE", and so they shall be. :)

... and such is life ...
Bobby Jo