The deep danger of politicizing Christianity. It simply reveals our deep need for revival.
- Thread starter Gideons300
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
That's not been my experience! Not at all!
Maybe time for a new fellowship?
Much love!
If you are going to go this direction, you'll need to do all the OT laws, not just pluck a verse here or there.
Much love!
Does that mean we do not have to heed the sermon on the mount? Actually, think of the paper we can save.... and the trees! LOL. We can eliminate everything in the New Testament up till Paul's Damascus Road experience.
I jest of course, and in love, but who decides if these words were for us or not? Thanks for bearing with my joking.
blessings,
Gideon
Blessings in Christ Jesus Gids. I believe in introductions when needed. This is Marks, a brother of yours in Christ Jesus. And Marks, this is you brother in Christ Jesus Gideon. I felt I needed to say that, perhaps it was something from learned from the sermon on the mount. And with that I take my leave of this thread.
@Gideons300 ...
I believe you are being very presumptuous and have cast a large net over all true believers as I read some of your OP. You think all believers fit your way of thinking on this subject? I beg to differ.
Words such as...
"God will abundantly pardon us and bring us to His place of safety, freed from the grip of our carnal natures and the sin that so easily besets us, but He is waiting on us, each one of us, to tell Him we need Him to rescue us from our carnal, earthly mindset."
and...
"We are to overcome evil, but cannot do so until the evil is first subdued in us, in our own hearts."
These statements do not reflect or are indicative of me and my lifestyle, at all. It might reflect your belief that you might somehow cross the line to side with the world if you go to far in support of one political party over another? No political party is of consequence to our life as in the Spirit, with the spirit of Christ. Yes, both parties are evil in design. They are never significant for life eternal, of course.
Believers today, especially in the last 30 years, support parties more strenuously and vigorously, IMO. Why, they see larger and increasing disparities and real differences in what the two-party systems have to offer, what they STAND for, that has real SPIRITUAL consequences.....same sex legitimacy, abortions, world governance, socialism, communism, disposing or threatening rid the Bible from our hands, as hate speech.....and on the other side, freedom of expression, of worship, privacy and the rule of law and control devices over lawlessness...where leaders want their country to come first. Do you see that there is a difference in politics today that is lining up with 'good' versus evil? And you believe you are to keep a blind eye, and not even speak of it? Just speaking of it at home is voicing a political view, even to a one-person audience.
Believers speak politics every day, even without posting a political article, or even speaking on a soap-box to a wide audience.
And it is not a dangerous thing to participate or speak of ones opinion about the state of evil in one's country. Is it really indicative of the terrible state of the ekklesia, as you wrote? Far from it. It makes the church more vigilant and awake to the ongoing and increasing evil in this country as in others.
You know politics for any human, whether Christian or not is unavoidable. It is all about how we handle it, if it becomes us, overtakes us, how we perceive it, and above all, what the Spirit speaks to us about it. That is my guide anyway.
Joseph and Daniel, from the OT were directly involved in politics. they had the hear of their rulers and worked and obeyed the plans of God. They were used as his instruments for his people, usually under bondage. They were led by the Spirit not of their own will.
Even Christ, became a political leader by preaching the gospel of his Father, caring for the physical and spiritual needs of the poor - and many entered into his Kingdom as result of his good work. Yes, he was the leader of the new Kingdom, and this Kingdom of God is very political indeed. One global-universal party of this world, the other not. Paul also involved himself in political process for the survival and security of his fellow Christians, especially in Rome.
Today, we preach the gospel and we need a government that does not prohibit this task. This involves politics.
So in a general and enduring way, whilst living on this earth, we must participate in some form or in some of the processes of politics, whether it is just speaking small talk with the neighbor about evil in government, or becoming a local representative that is biased to God's way for his his people in their community.
One last thing: If there is a real rift as I perceive your words to mean, with believers, concerning who they voted for in the US Pres. election, then I believe it is meant to be. If it is of a genuine spiritual nature, and of a spiritual consequence that is designed to single out and even divide professing believers from true believers, then that process is truly above yours and my pay grade. It is out of our hands and must be played out. It is truly God's will.
APAK
I believe you are being very presumptuous and have cast a large net over all true believers as I read some of your OP. You think all believers fit your way of thinking on this subject? I beg to differ.
Words such as...
"God will abundantly pardon us and bring us to His place of safety, freed from the grip of our carnal natures and the sin that so easily besets us, but He is waiting on us, each one of us, to tell Him we need Him to rescue us from our carnal, earthly mindset."
and...
"We are to overcome evil, but cannot do so until the evil is first subdued in us, in our own hearts."
These statements do not reflect or are indicative of me and my lifestyle, at all. It might reflect your belief that you might somehow cross the line to side with the world if you go to far in support of one political party over another? No political party is of consequence to our life as in the Spirit, with the spirit of Christ. Yes, both parties are evil in design. They are never significant for life eternal, of course.
Believers today, especially in the last 30 years, support parties more strenuously and vigorously, IMO. Why, they see larger and increasing disparities and real differences in what the two-party systems have to offer, what they STAND for, that has real SPIRITUAL consequences.....same sex legitimacy, abortions, world governance, socialism, communism, disposing or threatening rid the Bible from our hands, as hate speech.....and on the other side, freedom of expression, of worship, privacy and the rule of law and control devices over lawlessness...where leaders want their country to come first. Do you see that there is a difference in politics today that is lining up with 'good' versus evil? And you believe you are to keep a blind eye, and not even speak of it? Just speaking of it at home is voicing a political view, even to a one-person audience.
Believers speak politics every day, even without posting a political article, or even speaking on a soap-box to a wide audience.
And it is not a dangerous thing to participate or speak of ones opinion about the state of evil in one's country. Is it really indicative of the terrible state of the ekklesia, as you wrote? Far from it. It makes the church more vigilant and awake to the ongoing and increasing evil in this country as in others.
You know politics for any human, whether Christian or not is unavoidable. It is all about how we handle it, if it becomes us, overtakes us, how we perceive it, and above all, what the Spirit speaks to us about it. That is my guide anyway.
Joseph and Daniel, from the OT were directly involved in politics. they had the hear of their rulers and worked and obeyed the plans of God. They were used as his instruments for his people, usually under bondage. They were led by the Spirit not of their own will.
Even Christ, became a political leader by preaching the gospel of his Father, caring for the physical and spiritual needs of the poor - and many entered into his Kingdom as result of his good work. Yes, he was the leader of the new Kingdom, and this Kingdom of God is very political indeed. One global-universal party of this world, the other not. Paul also involved himself in political process for the survival and security of his fellow Christians, especially in Rome.
Today, we preach the gospel and we need a government that does not prohibit this task. This involves politics.
So in a general and enduring way, whilst living on this earth, we must participate in some form or in some of the processes of politics, whether it is just speaking small talk with the neighbor about evil in government, or becoming a local representative that is biased to God's way for his his people in their community.
One last thing: If there is a real rift as I perceive your words to mean, with believers, concerning who they voted for in the US Pres. election, then I believe it is meant to be. If it is of a genuine spiritual nature, and of a spiritual consequence that is designed to single out and even divide professing believers from true believers, then that process is truly above yours and my pay grade. It is out of our hands and must be played out. It is truly God's will.
APAK
Last edited:
If there is no question fraud was committed, why would William Barr, Trump's hand picked Attorney General, report no evidence of fraud? Wh6 would Republican judges and politicians agree there was no massive fraud?
Why would those stating there was tons of evidence not present it clearly in over a dozen court hearings?
The truth is, arguing over this is pointless. People who have their minds pre-made up are pre-judiced, and nothing anyone can say to the contrary will change their mind. We have arrived at a scary place where people on both sides do not want to reason things out or change their minds if the facts dictate.
Again, are our eyes on Jesus or on Jesus backing our own agenda, no matter what that agenda might be?
blessings,
Gids
Last edited:
Forgive me if my sarcasm was ill placed. Often times, sarcasm can be a passive aggressive weapon. May I assure you that was not my intent at all. Obviously, I failed in making that clear enough, and thank you, GTW, for the reminder. I really do appreciate it.
blessings,
Gideon
Let's remember that IN Christ we are forgiven everything, and in 100 years, we will all be with the Lord. Those that are His.
Much love!
But then, you aren't building an ark, are you? That commandment was also given.
I just finished responding to someone else who wouldn't give a real response, just reframing my comment in ridicule. Is that the only answer you have?
You say you jest, yet, this is your reply.
So.
The sermon on the mount, given to the Jews, showing them that their ideas of righteousness fall so far short that it's not even close.
Forgive others, or God won't forgive you. Have you forgiven everyone who has offended you, so that God will forgive you, or is He withholding His forgiveness because you've not gotten over the hurt yet, or maybe forgotten someone?
Will God withhold your paycheck if you don't tithe?
Do you tithe your cumin? I'm jesting too! Who grows cumin? Still, many give a 10th of something to others, but that's not a Biblical tithe, which is given to Levites.
Imagine if we did our laws the way many Christians view the OT Commandments.
The tithe is a 10th of what you produce given to Levites, crops, flocks, like that. So, we don't farm, we don't ranch, but we do sell time and talent for money, and give a 10th of that money, and that's good. But it's not the Biblical tithe.
We don't give it to Levites, because we don't know any. So we pick someone else to give it to.
So let's say . . .
You live in California, and pay California income tax. Then you move to Oregon, and insist that you are to keep sending California it's income tax. But you can't really submit it, since you are no longer a California resident, so you decide to figure out what your tax would be, and pick a different gov agency to send the money too.
Then you get the phone call. "Sir, this is the Mateo County Animal Shelter. We've received your check marked 2019 Income Tax, can you tell me why you sent it?"
We need to understand the times and the audience and what is being said, and how it fits with the covenants. We know we are to use our spiritual gifts, those passages are clearly for us. We know we aren't the ones building an ark, that passage was clearly for someone else.
Is tithing commanded for the NT church? Are we to forgive others TO RECEIVE forgiveness, as per the Sermon on the Mount? Or BECAUSE we've BEEN forgiven, per Ephesians 4? These are at odds with each other if both are directed towards us.
Much love!
Much love!
Heed all of Scripture, of course!
But then, you aren't building an ark, are you? That commandment was also given.
I just finished responding to someone else who wouldn't give a real response, just reframing my comment in ridicule. Is that the only answer you have?
You say you jest, yet, this is your reply.
So.
The sermon on the mount, given to the Jews, showing them that their ideas of righteousness fall so far short that it's not even close.
Forgive others, or God won't forgive you. Have you forgiven everyone who has offended you, so that God will forgive you, or is He withholding His forgiveness because you've not gotten over the hurt yet, or maybe forgotten someone?
Will God withhold your paycheck if you don't tithe?
Do you tithe your cumin? I'm jesting too! Who grows cumin? Still, many give a 10th of something to others, but that's not a Biblical tithe, which is given to Levites.
Imagine if we did our laws the way many Christians view the OT Commandments.
The tithe is a 10th of what you produce given to Levites, crops, flocks, like that. So, we don't farm, we don't ranch, but we do sell time and talent for money, and give a 10th of that money, and that's good. But it's not the Biblical tithe.
We don't give it to Levites, because we don't know any. So we pick someone else to give it to.
So let's say . . .
You live in California, and pay California income tax. Then you move to Oregon, and insist that you are to keep sending California it's income tax. But you can't really submit it, since you are no longer a California resident, so you decide to figure out what your tax would be, and pick a different gov agency to send the money too.
Then you get the phone call. "Sir, this is the Mateo County Animal Shelter. We've received your check marked 2019 Income Tax, can you tell me why you sent it?"
We need to understand the times and the audience and what is being said, and how it fits with the covenants. We know we are to use our spiritual gifts, those passages are clearly for us. We know we aren't the ones building an ark, that passage was clearly for someone else.
Is tithing commanded for the NT church? Are we to forgive others TO RECEIVE forgiveness, as per the Sermon on the Mount? Or BECAUSE we've BEEN forgiven, per Ephesians 4? These are at odds with each other if both are directed towards us.
Much love!
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
I'm not too sure about that, Gideon. Enoch can speak for himself so I don't want to answer for him, but I think evidence is piling up now, and some may start to open their eyes.
See the following, and also Post #104 in this thread:
The Pennsylvania Prophecies
Last edited:
Thank you for your posting. May each one of us seek the face of God for His will on the matter. i have a feeling we are all about to find out.
blessings, brother
Gideon
My OP tried to make it clear. If we think by supporting one evil choice over another will bring about the will of God, we will be sowing to the wind. I would like to stay on task here trying to point us away from this world and the mess we are in. These things must come to pass, but no matter who wins, if hate reigns in our hearts, we all lose.
Overcoming evil with good, hatred with love, impatience with patience, this is our calling as His children. May God awaken us to who we are.... and who we are not.
blessings,
Gideon
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Well certainly. Only I think one can fight for the defense of his country without having hate in his heart for the opposition.
I do understand your point, only I think it has the effect of eliminating the church from the political arena, and I think that's going a bit too far. There are indeed many, including on the forums, who are letting a spirit of hate overcome them, but as for me and several others here, I think that's not the case. Just trying to get to the bottom of what has happened during the election, and trying to see that justice is served.
But I do agree with the following. It's at the heart of NT teaching, and it isn't posted enough:
This reminds me of Ephesians 4, that we are to be building each other in love.
Much love!
It was clear to me, no offense taken in the slightest!!
Now I'm hoping that I didn't sound over the top!
Much love!
In regards to what you are saying, if you read the book of Ezekiel or even the other books of the prophets, God allowed the Israelites to do some horrible things when they turned away from Him, even somewhere in the book of Romans, God allows some things to happen. And you know even in the book of Ezekiel the Israelites made pagan shrines, committed excessive acts of adultery, and even sent some of their children through the fire as sacrifices to pagan gods, their sins were worst then what has been allowed in the Western world, what they did was even worst than abortion, their sins were worst than Sodom, Samaria and the other pagan nations around them. Yet the Lord allowed these things to happen, yes many of them were punished, but the Lord allowed these things to happen, but even in the book of Romans, we see the Lord gave them over to a reprobate mind, read Romans 1:28.
What the western world needs is a true revival, a true revival is a work of the Holy Spirit. It doesn't matter who is president, neither are the answer to a true revival, in fact some of the greatest revivals happen in the more corrupt nations of the world.
And to those who debate certain world economic systems being right and other world economic systems being wrong, well I got news for you, world economic systems are flawed.
We forget the parable Jesus gave. And yes this has some other meanings to it as in the last will be first and the first will be last and it also has a meaning for whoever turns to Jesus, even at the last hour, will still get the reward of eternal life in Heaven, but it's interesting that Jesus used this example, of all the workers in the vineyard being paid a fair day's wage. But it could very well have a another meaning, a meaning that is more literal, that everyone who works, deserves a fair wage, a fair wage to live, support and feed their families.
Matthew 20:1-16
The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard
20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like(A) a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard.(B) 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.
“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
8 “When evening came,(C) the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble(D) against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat(E) of the day.’
13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend.(F) Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’(G)
16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”(H)
I agree with your post as some it does speak to what I also said, from a different perspective.
I have a question or two though, what is the purpose of a revival in the West today, and why not include the East? Do I even agree with even this? Not at all, because strictly speaking, it is not the nations as a whole that need revival, believers cannot revive evil in their midst to Christ or mix with it, within nations. There is no such thing as a pure 100% Christian nation; even in OT of the 12 tribes of Israel, not all were believers. Never was and never will be for obvious reasons.
Now, a revival via the Spirit, to strengthen and re-weld loosened bonds within the ekklesia only, is my hope and prayer, indeed, where ever they are living on this planet. And especially today, to be strong, vigilant, as we eagerly await our Saviour, in glory and power.
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
That's not exactly what Barr said. He was referring to overturning the election, but many testimonies have been given this week in swing-state courts that there has been massive fraud in these states.... Evidence IS being presented.
Here's just one of many examples:
BREAKING NOW: Surveillance Footage Shows Atlanta Workers ‘Scanning Ballots’ from Suitcase After Hours | Sean Hannity
historyb
Well-Known Member
Similar threads
