Except we aren't talking about the imputation of sin to mankind. We're talking about the impact of the Law upon Paul.
Much love!
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Much love!
For myself, I think the full context is best received in looking at Romans 4-8.
Much love!
Paul teaches that our old man, or "the filth" as you are describing it, is nailed to the Cross with Jesus.
We are to "reckon it dead", and not exist trying to deal with it, by will, or we will find ourselves in the maze of...>"that i would do i dont do, and that i hate is what i do".... etc.
In place of the "filth",,........ we have NOW become, by new spiritual birth, "New Creations".....
This is our "incorruptible" born again Spirit, that is In Christ, and there is no sin found there.
"""There is now no condemnation to those who are IN Christ."""
That works on 2 levels..
1st, this verse.... John 3:36 says that ALL the unbelieving, are currently damned. (Judgement of God rests on them) So, that is eternal CONDEMNATION.
= all the born again are free from that.
Next, we are never to exist inside a condemned conscience. We are to have no condemnation in there..
And that falls to Right Believing.....as when we understand that we are always kept at peace, with God, by Jesus's Blood, then this allows us room to grow, to fail, to start again, yet, in peace with God about it.
The Grace of God, allows us to be human, while it also makes us a PERFECTED Part of God, Himself. a "Son".
Justification . . . being declared innocent . . . being rendered innocent . . . our new reality.
Justification . . . being declared innocent . . . being rendered innocent . . . our new reality.
When God declares it, then you can rest assured its the bottom line.
God made it all, owns it all, and sustains it all.....and we are IN Him and He is in us.
All that He is, all that He has, and all that He can do.....we are a part of this, reality.
"Find help in time of need"......that is 24/7.
That is God always being available.
"The door is always open".. "Help is always on the way".
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
It means if we continue to walk in the Spirit and cultivate that nature, we won't grieve or quench the Spirit, but we are still capable of grieving or quenching the Spirit and why Paul gave commandment to not do that. Those that do quench the Spirit and stay that way are like a dog that returns to its own vomit.
The Spirit has freed us from that bondage, so why put the chains back on???
That's just it. We're to reckon ourselves dead to sin because we are, but it doesn't always seem like it. So if it ever doesn't seem like we're dead to sin, that's a misperception, and we must count ourselves among the dead ones - dead to sin, that is. But actually among the living ones!
Much love!
To cultivate that new nature, is 100% related to right believing.
Its impossible to cultivate or even walk in the right mind, if you believe you can lose your salvation, or if you believe that you have a part to play in keeping yourself saved.
In other words, you can be "fallen from Grace" as all are who believe they can lose their salvation, or believe they have to maintain it by lifestyle, which is the same thing.....and cannot "walk in the Spirit", as in that wrong believing state of mind, God can never cultivate true spiritual growth within you.
The Only way to walk in the Spirit is to exist entirely at Rest, in God's Grace.
You can only do that by right believing.
Just like we kneel and are humble to be lifted up, we rest in God's Grace to exit in a perfected discipleship = within the Grace generated power to live holy.
This doesn't sound like that passage.
The flesh lusts against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh, so you can't do what you want.
That last part, "you can't do what you want", commentators are divided on whether that relates to the spiritual man not able to always be spiritual, or the fleshy man not able to always get his way.
But interestingly, that doesn't seem to me to change the meaning.
There is a current state of being in which we exist.
We have flesh (the old man) and the spirit ( the new man). Each have their desires, and each are contrary to each other. Flesh and spirit are in conflict.
This conflict results in incompletion of our works. We can be negatively impacted by the desires still resident in our flesh. We are not flesh, not any more, we are spirit. But we live in flesh, and our flesh has desires, and those desires war against us.
What is the remedy?
If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under Law.
You may ask . . . what sense does that make?
Law empowers sin.
Much love!
We can do may good and wonderful things, just like anyone can, except, we can tell ourselves that we are doing the works of Christ. But can they really BE the works of Christ, IF we are attempting to subvert His salvation, and replace with our own?
Using our good works as the proof that we are staying saved?
Just because we like ourselves or not, whether we like our behavior or not, that's not what decides the matter. That's just measuring ourselves against ourselves.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
As long as its actually fact, and not just wishful thinking. As you know, I went to church for 30 years BEFORE I received the Spirit of God and was born again, making me dead to sin. At some point you know it, there is no mistaking that experience. So from then on just live it, because sin is no longer "calling" to you as it did before when you were its slave.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
If you have to struggle to keep yourself from sinning, then you are not born again. Without the Spirit your nature is in constant opposition to the righteousness requirements of God. But when you receive the Spirit you are partaking of the divine nature of God and loves what God loves, and hates what God hates. Choose your friends wisely, and disassociate from those in your past that could tempt you beyond what you now know to be right. Keep walking the new walk until it is old hat.
We are each individual, and I think we each have our own experience in meeting God, and being transformed by Him. This is why I prefer to stick with Scripture and not anectodal basis. My story is just that - my story. It may not be yours. But the Bible is what it is, it doesn't change, and it gives universal application.
When we come to understand just how it is that sin lives in the flesh, but not in you, we can understand better the differences in how each of us grow, and why we can have ongoing problems, whether sex and drugs, or pride and intolerance.
Much love!
No one has to, but so many think it's the right way.
Choose your friends wisely, and disassociate from those in your past that could tempt you beyond what you now know to be right
Except . . . they can't tempt you with sin, because you don't want any, right?
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I memorized much of scripture in those first 30 years, but it was a completely sobering and horrifying realization that I had not been on the path toward salvation. What if I had died?
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
No one has to, but so many think it's the right way.
Choose your friends wisely, and disassociate from those in your past that could tempt you beyond what you now know to be right
Except . . . they can't tempt you with sin, because you don't want any, right?
Much love!
What do you mean "no one has to." If you do not have Christ living inside you, you WILL struggle with sin. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Only after being filled with the Spirit of Christ are you free from sin and death.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Paul was under the law when he was a Pharisee, just as the person depicted in Romans 7:14-23 is under the law. The laws are not written on the heart through the Spirit - YET! Only on his mind.
Why is that so hard to see??? Both you and Behold believe it is about Paul as a Christian. For some reason Romans 8:2 doesn't compute for either of you.
Until the Spirit shows you the power of the Spirit, and that it is not all your own doing, I'm bowing out of this never-ending debate.
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