Is God Really All Loving?

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farouk

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It is true that God is totally loving, because He is love itself. Now, in saying that, I am not talking about the type of sentimental lovey dovey approach that is sometimes characteristic of liberals. God hates sin, but loves the sinner. This is according to the Scriptural definition of love - that it desires the absolute best for the universe and everyone in it. Charles Finney wrote an excellent section on The Attributes of Love in his Systematic Theology. The section has come out in a separate book of that title.

God executes His wrath and anger on sin of every type, and often the sinner gets in the way and suffers as a result. Also, He values His Son Jesus Christ to such an extent that He is angry at those who reject Christ. The Scripture says that God is angry at the wicked every day (Psalm 7:11).

But for those who have embraced Christ as their Saviour, God's anger is turned away (Isaiah 12:1).

But God's anger is not the out-of-control rage that a drunken husband arrives home and beats up his wife and children because his supper is not ready. It's not like the road rage we often see on our streets. It is not the kind of anger that seeks revenge.

But God has a set of moral laws, and these involve rewards and penalties, just like our domestic laws. If we abide by the law, we are rewarded with a peaceful life and we are not pulled over by the police, unless it is a routine stop to check for seatbelts, registration, warrants of fitness, or alcohol breath testing. If we break the law, there are penalties which we know all about without me having to mention them here.

A convicted murderer may come up for sentencing, and the judge may love the criminal and personally not want to impose the death penalty. But the judge has to give his judgment according to the law, and in this case, the law requires the death penalty. So the judge has to put aside his loving feelings and sentence the prisoner to death. Judge may hate doing it, but according to law it has to be done. If he didn't, then justice would not be served, especially for the family of the murdered victim. Also, confidence would be lost for the judge if it appeared that because of personal feelings, he was in the habit of allowing convicted murderers get inappropriately light sentences, and such action could bring the judiciary into disrepute.

If a human judge is bound by the law of the land, how much more is our eternal Judge bound by His moral law? He has to act righteously; if not, how would committed believers who had faithfully served Him and made such efforts to live holy and righteous lives feel if they found themselves in heaven next door to Osama Bin Laden who masterminded 9/11 that killed over 3000 innocent people?

The liberals refuse to accept that a loving God would send people to hell, yet they don't seem to object to a judge giving the death sentence to a serial murderer. They imply that if God was a Court judge, a drunk driver who smashed into a car killing a whole family would be given just a small fine because He loved the drunk driver too much to give him a heavier sentence. Of course this is ridiculous, and it is because liberals worship a different god, one of their own imagination, instead of the God of the Bible.
@Paul Christensen Divine love is indeed unique: "We love Him, because He first loved us" (1 John 4.19). "But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." (Ephesians 2.4-7)
 
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quietthinker

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Question: “Is God really all loving?”
  • [Lev 26:30 NASB] 30 'I then will destroy your high places, and cut down your incense altars, and heap your remains on the remains of your idols, for My soul shall abhor you.
  • [Deu 25:16 NASB] 16 "For everyone who does these things, everyone who acts unjustly is an abomination to the LORD your God.
  • [Pro 3:32 NASB] 32 For the devious are an abomination to the LORD; But He is intimate with the upright.
  • [Pro 11:20 NASB] 20 The perverse in heart are an abomination to the LORD, But the blameless in [their] walk are His delight.
  • [Pro 16:5 NASB] 5 Everyone who is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD; Assuredly, he will not be unpunished.
  • [Pro 17:15 NASB] 15 He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.
  • [Psa 11:5 NASB] 5 The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates.
  • [Mal 1:2-3 NASB] 2 "I have loved you," says the LORD. But you say, "How have You loved us?" "[Was] not Esau Jacob's brother?" declares the LORD. "Yet I have loved Jacob; 3 but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and [appointed] his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness."
  • [Rom 9:13 NASB] 13 Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."
  • [Rom 9:18 NASB] 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
  • [Rom 9:21-22 NASB] 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
The answer is “No.”
The question 'Is God all loving' is the same question muted by Satan.....the answer is Calvary. If that is not seen as the answer to the question for those asking it is solely because one has not seen Calvary. I might add, what one has seen is their own construct of an event that has not touched the heart.
 

quietthinker

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Alright, let's review the common beliefs of liberalism and find out how I reached that assumption shall we?




1. Liberals can say whatever the heck they want, but when it comes to us Trump supporters (and people against BLM and ANTIFA) we're not allowed to say anything against Biden and hence a reason that I was banned from CF. So the freedom of speech is definitely shot with them.




2. Liberals don't believe in the right to bear arms. Yet these are the same people who want to defund the police. So they're basically holding up a great big neon sign that says murder me. Another reason why I was banned from CF is I believe very strongly in the right to bear arms and I spoke quite a bit about how we should be able to shoot violent protestors. CF could care less about the US Constitution though and another reason I was banned is that I said that Kamala would rip it up and spit on it if she had the chance.



3. Liberals care more about equality then about our own safety, yet they want to order another shutdown of the government. What I mean by this is that Biden supporters support him by tearing down the wall and letting the same people (the Chinese government) who cursed us with this stupid pandemic in the first place and wanting us dead into the country along with the same people who caused 911,.. yet they don't seem to care if we're going for another great depression and not having the funds to care for ourselves properly.







I'm sure that there are many more examples but those were the few that I could think of. Oh yeah, and Biden wants to pack the supreme court so there's more democrats (or rather his puppet controllers do) and the democrats rigged this whole entire election in the first place silencing our right to vote. Liberals are mostly communist Nazi's which I do believe was another reason for my banning because I posted that on CF as well. And although they have the freedom to be like that, they don't believe in freedom. Which is just as well because if President Trump has his say a lot of them will be headed for a lockup really soon. ;)

Your them and us approach disables your vision April_Rose.....your paradigm does not allow you to see beyond your own justification.
 

quietthinker

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Where did you see in my post that says God kills anyone?
Do you work for CNN?
I didn't say you said that. I am simply amplifying John 1....... Do I work for CNN? goodness, No.......but isn't it interesting how easy it is to assume and not hear?
 

quietthinker

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"Is God Really All Loving?"
Of course not. He hated Esau.
You have short circuited a big question kcnalp and drawn a conclusion contrary to what the reality of Jesus was about......and it is not possible to hold both views and be congruent. How can this happen? It happens because of a misunderstanding and an ignorance of Hebrew assumptions......and the writers of scripture were Hebrews.
 

kcnalp

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You have short circuited a big question kcnalp and drawn a conclusion contrary to what the reality of Jesus was about......and it is not possible to hold both views and be congruent. How can this happen? It happens because of a misunderstanding and an ignorance of Hebrew assumptions......and the writers of scripture were Hebrews.
Malachi 1:2-3 (NKJV)
2 Says the LORD. "Yet Jacob I have loved; 3 But Esau I have hated,

Romans 9:13 (NKJV)
13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

No misunderstanding whatsoever.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Malachi 1:2-3 (NKJV)
2 Says the LORD. "Yet Jacob I have loved; 3 But Esau I have hated,

Romans 9:13 (NKJV)
13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

No misunderstanding whatsoever.
When you come to a scripture that SEEMS to contradict God's nature then it needs to be searched out thoroughly...or there will definitely be misunderstandings.
:Question: Malachi 1:1-3 says: “An oracle. The word of the LORD to Israel through Malachi. ‘I have loved you,’ says the LORD; but you say, ‘How have you loved us?’ ‘Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?’ says the LORD: ‘yet I loved Jacob, but hated Esau; I made his mountains a waste, his heritage a desert for jackals.'” Romans 9:13 quotes part of this passage, “As it is written: ‘I loved Jacob but hated Esau.'” Is it true that God hated Esau?

A: No, God did not hate Esau, but God did prefer Jacob (later known as Israel) over Esau. The Hebrew word used in these passages is translated as hate inThe New American Bible, The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) andThe New Jerusalem Bible. If God prefers one person over another, biblical writers may say that God loves the one and hates the other, although God cannot hate any person.

According to The NRSV Concordance Unabridged, the word hate occurs 83 times in the Old Testament and 17 times in the New Testament, not countinghated, hates and similar words. In the Old Testament, 78 of those usages applyhate in the context of one person to God, an individual, a group of people or some type of sin. Only five times do we read that God hates in the sense described above.

The New Testament’s first usage of hate is a challenge to the idea that one person is allowed to hate another. In Matthew 5:43-45, Jesus says: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.”

In Luke 14:26-27, however, Jesus employs the Hebrew usage described above when he addresses the great crowds following him and says: “If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.” The New American Bible‘s footnote for this passage notes the similar saying in Matthew 10:37 and explains, “The disciple’s family must take second place to the absolute dedication involved in following Jesus (see also Luke 9:59-62).”

Other New Testament passages apply hate as happening between one person and someone else or in the Semitic sense of prefer.

God cannot do anything that contradicts what being God means. For example, God cannot be dishonest or unjust because that would contradict God’s truthfulness or justice. The three persons of the Trinity cannot be in competition with one another because that would contradict God’s unity.

Sometimes our language about God is deliberately very selective. Saying that God hates some people the way that humans sometimes hate one another could be interpreted as giving someone permission to do the same.

If we cite a passage such as Malachi 1:1-3 or Romans 9:13 to justify our hatred, we are taking that passage out of context and giving it a meaning contrary to how the faith community has understood it. God might say: “Don’t use me to justify your hatred. Accept responsibility for your actions. Come to your senses and reject hatred!”
 

Heart2Soul

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So, all our Bibles are wrong?
Psalm 5:5 (NKJV)
5 You hate all workers of iniquity.

Does God love those He will burn in Hell "forever and ever"?
God judges those who denied Jesus...I just provided you with an in depth study about the Hebrew word and the translation into English.
Here is your understanding of the word...
verb (used with object), hat·ed, hat·ing.
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest:to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.
Here is the meaning of that verse
Malachi Chapter 1
Jacob I have loved; but Esau I have hated: God did not hate Esau in the sense of cursing him or striking out against him. Indeed, Esau was a blessed man (Genesis 33:9, 36:1-43). Yet when God chose Jacob, He left Esau unchosen in regard to receiving the blessing given to Abraham.

i. In his commentary on Romans (where Paul quoted this Malachi passage in Romans 9:13) Leon Morris cited examples where hate clearly seems to mean something like “loved less” (Genesis 29:31-33, Deuteronomy 21:15, Matthew 6:24, Luke 14:26, John 12:25). Yet he agreed with Calvin’s idea that the real thought here is much more like “accepted” and “rejected” more than it is like our understanding of the terms “loved” and “hated.”

ii. We should remember the reason why election is brought up here: not to exclude, but to comfort and reassure. “A woman once said to Mr. Spurgeon, ‘I cannot understand why God should say that He hated Esau.’ ‘That,’ Spurgeon replied, ‘is not my difficulty, madam. My trouble is to understand how God could love Jacob’” (William Newell in his commentary on Romans).
 

kcnalp

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God judges those who denied Jesus...I just provided you with an in depth study about the Hebrew word and the translation into English.
Here is your understanding of the word...
verb (used with object), hat·ed, hat·ing.
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest:to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.
Here is the meaning of that verse
Malachi Chapter 1
Jacob I have loved; but Esau I have hated: God did not hate Esau in the sense of cursing him or striking out against him. Indeed, Esau was a blessed man (Genesis 33:9, 36:1-43). Yet when God chose Jacob, He left Esau unchosen in regard to receiving the blessing given to Abraham.

i. In his commentary on Romans (where Paul quoted this Malachi passage in Romans 9:13) Leon Morris cited examples where hate clearly seems to mean something like “loved less” (Genesis 29:31-33, Deuteronomy 21:15, Matthew 6:24, Luke 14:26, John 12:25). Yet he agreed with Calvin’s idea that the real thought here is much more like “accepted” and “rejected” more than it is like our understanding of the terms “loved” and “hated.”

ii. We should remember the reason why election is brought up here: not to exclude, but to comfort and reassure. “A woman once said to Mr. Spurgeon, ‘I cannot understand why God should say that He hated Esau.’ ‘That,’ Spurgeon replied, ‘is not my difficulty, madam. My trouble is to understand how God could love Jacob’” (William Newell in his commentary on Romans).
All of our English Bibles say God hated Esau. I'll stick with them.
 

Heart2Soul

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I challenge anyone to give Scriptures for the love of God against Scriptures for the fear of God and the wrath of God.
Start your own thread...don't want to derail this one.
Besides you already have shown that you are solid in how you believe and I am not here to debate my belief against yours.
 

kcnalp

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Start your own thread...don't want to derail this one.
Besides you already have shown that you are solid in how you believe and I am not here to debate my belief against yours.
I don't see how I derailed this thread in any way.
 

quietthinker

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Malachi 1:2-3 (NKJV)
2 Says the LORD. "Yet Jacob I have loved; 3 But Esau I have hated,

Romans 9:13 (NKJV)
13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

No misunderstanding whatsoever.
suit yourself
 
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Taken

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And they never even considered the fact that I was being offended by them treating me like that and insulting my beliefs.

Ofcoure not. It's a circle jerk.
You should tolerate.
They should not be offended.
Notice...
They like to talk ABOUT others, not present.
They can personally Attack an other ALL day long. When you disagree with "them". They are present...and you have just "personally" attacked "them"!

God Bless,
Taken
 
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