No worries brother. I had thought you had missed my reply, which was why I posted as I did.
Contradiction Or Paradox?
- Thread starter BarneyFife
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My inability to keep it non-debate has no bearing on my intentions. But I will not argue as to what it is or was or has become. You are free to argue to your heart's content in this thread that was meant to be contributive, mainly. Thank you for your participation.
No, I got what you stated.
Listen a moment, please.
Only the Pharisees "thought" (notice, not actually) it was a violation because of their man-made rules. Jesus knew better and set them straight.
Again, healing is doing the "holy" work required on sabbath, it is not "thy work", the common labour of the people.
Read this again, please:
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Now, consider the parallelism carefully.
There is a "work" in "keep[ing] the sabbath holy". It is to be done in all days of the week, all 7.
There is a "thy (the peoples) work" which is to be done only in the 6 days before the 7th day. This work is not "holy", but simply common, in contrast.
In other words, the Pharisees "thought" wrongly.
Oh sure, I agree with that, but the spiritual (moral) law of God, the Ten Commandments, is always the highest law. It is also no clash to heal on that day in the commandmdents, as it is part of restoration to that which God originally created.
While I agree with this premise, I am interested in what part of the context declares that one can do "holy" work on the sabbath day.
It seems to me that the letter in Exodus 20:10 tells us that you ought not to do "any" work on that day; whether it be holy or common.
Sure thing. I am not arguing against your intentions. I am simply saying it is become what you said it would be come, in spite of your intentions. Maybe I am being a little too funny with you. For that, I apologize.My inability to keep it non-debate has no bearing on my intentions. But I will not argue as to what it is or was or has become. You are free to argue to your heart's content in this thread that was meant to be contributive, mainly. Thank you for your participation.
Good thread.
Tell me how then would you "keep" the Sabbath "holy" without "holy" work? To "keep" is to actively labour.
Gen_2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen_3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Gen_18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Gen_28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.
Psa_127:1 A Song of degrees for Solomon. Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.
etc
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The obvious answer is that you keep the sabbath day holy by obeying the sabbath day law, that you shall not do "any" work on it.
Again, I do not disagree with the premise that we ought to do holy work on the sabbath day; I am just saying that the letter of the law in Exodus 20:10 tells us that we ought not to do "any".
I may be taking this too seriously, as I thought you were. If so, I apologize. Nevertheles, for semantics' sake, saying that I can't keep it from becoming debate is not the same as saying it will definitely become debate. Ergo, it has not "become what (I) said it would be." QED-ROTFL
That's why I provided the parallelism in colour. The "any" is of the category "thy work", not all work (even exclusive of keeping the sabbath Holy).
The parallelism
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
The parallelism:
[A1.] the sabbath day (being the 7th day) - keep it holy (as God made it holy, by resting from the labour that was done in the previous 6 days)
[A2.] but (contrast) the seventh day is the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God (this was what God did to make the sabbath holy)
It is even why Paul says to "Labour" (Heb. 4) to enter into that "rest" of God, which was since the foundation of the world. There is a "holy" work that needs to be done on all days, including and especially in the 7th day in order to "keep" it the way God "made" (Mark 2:27) it.[B1.] six days (all days which are not the 7th day, the sabbath day) - thou (your, not God's) labour - thy (their's not God's) work
[A2.] but (contrast) the seventh day is the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God (this was what God did to make the sabbath holy)
[B2.] in it (the 7th day in contrast to the previous 6 days) thou (they) shalt not do any work (context, B1. their work, there is also a difference between this "any" of their work, and certain non-servile work in Lev 23:7, but other common work was allowed in the feast days, yet not on sabbath.)
The stipulation in verse 9 does not change the reality of what the letter of the law says in verse 10 (thou shalt not do "any" work).
If the Lord wanted to make your point clear, He would have said in verse 10, thou shalt not do any of "thy" work.
Instead He said, thou shalt not do "any work" indicating that no work is to be done on the sabbath day according to the letter of this law.
If the Lord wanted to make your point clear, He would have said in verse 10, thou shalt not do any of "thy" work.
Instead He said, thou shalt not do "any work" indicating that no work is to be done on the sabbath day according to the letter of this law.
You might want to just start with:
https://archive.org/download/peter-...an - The 'Errors' in the King James Bible.pdf
None of what you have posted are contradictions, and most are outright silly to say are contradictions, when read slowly. Some are more work, but all fall within the text of John 10:35 KJB.
Take this for instance:
"Heli" is Mary's father, and thus Joseph becomes the "son" in law [as the two become "one flesh"], just as "David" became the "son" in law of King "Saul", having married Saul's daughter, "Michal", see:
1 Samuel 24:16 KJB - And it came to pass, when David had made an end of speaking these words unto Saul, that Saul said, Is this thy voice, my son David? And Saul lifted up his voice, and wept.
1 Samuel 18:18 KJB - And David said unto Saul, Who am I? and what is my life, or my father's family in Israel, that I should be son in law to the king?
1 Samuel 18:18 KJB - And David said unto Saul, Who am I? and what is my life, or my father's family in Israel, that I should be son in law to the king?
Another for instance, see Naomi and Ruth:
Ruth 2:2 KJB - And Ruth the Moabitess said unto Naomi, Let me now go to the field, and glean ears of corn after him in whose sight I shall find grace. And she said unto her, Go, my daughter.
Ruth 1:22 KJB - So Naomi returned, and Ruth the Moabitess, her daughter in law, with her, which returned out of the country of Moab: and they came to Bethlehem in the beginning of barley harvest.
Ruth 1:22 KJB - So Naomi returned, and Ruth the Moabitess, her daughter in law, with her, which returned out of the country of Moab: and they came to Bethlehem in the beginning of barley harvest.
Scripture [KJB] does this all of the time, in regards ancestors, descendants, notice:
Adam:
Luke 3:38 KJB - Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Eve:
Genesis 3:20 KJB - And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Jesus:
Matthew 1:1 KJB - The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Matthew 15:22 KJB - And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Matthew 15:22 KJB - And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Jesus is called the "son of David" numerous times: Matthew 1:1, 9:27, 12:23, 15:22, 20:30,31, 21:9,15, 22:42; Mark 10:47,48, 12:35; Luke 18:38,39 KJB
Zacchaeus:
Luke 19:9 KJB - And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
Elisabeth:
Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Joseph:
Matthew 1:20 KJB - But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Christians:
Galatians 3:7 KJB - Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Again, take this one:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mar_3:5 And when he [Jesus] had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Thus it is possible to be angry and it not be sin. No contradiction.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Who was the father of Uzziah?
- Joram (Matthew 1:8)
Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)
Matthew 1:8 KJB - And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
2 Chronicles 26:1 KJB - Then all the people of Judah took Uzziah, who was sixteen years old, and made him king in the room of his father Amaziah.
2 Chronicles 26:1 KJB - Then all the people of Judah took Uzziah, who was sixteen years old, and made him king in the room of his father Amaziah.
We see that Asa begat Jehoshaphat [Josaphat/Je Hosaphat]:
1 Kings 15:24 KJB - And Asa slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoshaphat his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 22:41 KJB - And Jehoshaphat the son of Asa began to reign over Judah in the fourth year of Ahab king of Israel.
1 Kings 22:43 KJB - And he walked in all the ways of Asa his father; he turned not aside from it, doing that which was right in the eyes of the LORD: nevertheless the high places were not taken away; for the people offered and burnt incense yet in the high places.
1 Kings 22:41 KJB - And Jehoshaphat the son of Asa began to reign over Judah in the fourth year of Ahab king of Israel.
1 Kings 22:43 KJB - And he walked in all the ways of Asa his father; he turned not aside from it, doing that which was right in the eyes of the LORD: nevertheless the high places were not taken away; for the people offered and burnt incense yet in the high places.
We see that Matthew is drawing from 1 Chronicles 3:
1 Chronicles 3:10 KJB - And Solomon's son was Rehoboam, Abia his son, Asa his son, Jehoshaphat his son,
Matthew 1:7 KJB - And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
Matthew 1:8 KJB - And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
Matthew 1:7 KJB - And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
Matthew 1:8 KJB - And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
Thus, here is the list from 1 Chronicles 3:10-12 [with additional names as they are given elsewhere]:
1 Chronicles 3:10 KJB - And Solomon's son was Rehoboam, Abia his son, Asa his son, Jehoshaphat [Josaphat] his son,
1 Chronicles 3:11 KJB - Joram [Jehoram] his son, Ahaziah [Jehoahaz/Azariah] his son, Joash [Jehoash] his son,
1 Chronicles 3:12 KJB - Amaziah [Uzziah/Ozias] his son, Azariah his son, Jotham his son,
Notice this text:
2 Chronicles 26:23 KJB - So Uzziah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the field of the burial which belonged to the kings; for they said, He is a leper: and Jotham his son reigned in his stead.
1 Chronicles 3:11 KJB - Joram [Jehoram] his son, Ahaziah [Jehoahaz/Azariah] his son, Joash [Jehoash] his son,
1 Chronicles 3:12 KJB - Amaziah [Uzziah/Ozias] his son, Azariah his son, Jotham his son,
Notice this text:
2 Chronicles 26:23 KJB - So Uzziah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the field of the burial which belonged to the kings; for they said, He is a leper: and Jotham his son reigned in his stead.
This is similar to:
2 Kings 12:18 KJB - And Jehoash king of Judah took all the hallowed things that Jehoshaphat, and Jehoram, and Ahaziah, his fathers, kings of Judah, had dedicated, and his own hallowed things, and all the gold that was found in the treasures of the house of the LORD, and in the king's house, and sent it to Hazael king of Syria: and he went away from Jerusalem.
We see that the word "father" in the Bible is always to be considered in its contextual setting, as it can mean the immediate "father", the grand "father", the great grand "father", etc., etc., and same with "son", grand "son", great grand "son", etc., etc.
Leviticus 25:41 KJB - And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return.
1 Kings 2:10 KJB - So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.
2 Chronicles 14:1 KJB - So Abijah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead. In his days the land was quiet ten years.
2 Chronicles 16:13 KJB - And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.
1 Kings 2:10 KJB - So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.
2 Chronicles 14:1 KJB - So Abijah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead. In his days the land was quiet ten years.
2 Chronicles 16:13 KJB - And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.
"his fathers":
Leviticus 25:41; Numbers 4:1,11, 36:7,8; 1 Kings 1:21, 2:10, 11:21,43, 14:20,31, 15:8,12,24, 16:6,28, 22:40,50; 2 Kings 8:24, 9:28, 10:35, 12:18,21, 13:9,13, 14:16,20,22,29, 15:7,9,22,38, 16:20, 20:21, 21:18,22, 23:32,37, 24:6; 1 Chronicles 26:31; 2 Chronicles 9:31, 12:16, 14:1, 16:13, 21:1,10,19, 25:28, 26:2,23, 27:9, 28:25,27, 30:19, 32:33, 33:12,20, 35:24; Psalms 49:19, 109:14; Daniel 11:24,37,38; Acts 13:26
Who was the father of Uzziah?
- Joram (Matthew 1:8)
Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)
Thus we see the order:
Asa:
1 Kings 15:8; 15:9; 15:11; 15:13; 15:14; 15:16; 15:17; 15:18; 15:20; 15:22; 15:23; 15:24; 15:25; 15:28; 15:32; 15:33; 16:8; 16:10; 16:15; 16:23; 16:29; 22:41; 22:43; 22:46; 1 Chronicles 3:10; 2 Chronicles 14:1; 14:2; 14:8; 14:10; 14:11; 14:12; 14:13; 15:2; 15:8; 15:10; 15:16; 15:17; 15:19; 16:1; 16:2; 16:4; 16:6; 16:7; 16:10; 16:11; 16:12; 16:13; 17:2; 20:32; 21:12; Jeremiah 41:9; Matthew 1:7; 1:8
Je hoshaphat:
2 Kings 8:16
Je hoshaphat:
2 Kings 8:16
Jehoshaphat:
1 Kings 15:24; 22:2; 22:4; 22:5; 22:7; 22:8; 22:10; 22:18; 22:29; 22:30; 22:32; 22:41; 22:42; 22:44; 22:45; 22:48; 22:49; 22:50; 22:51; 2 Kings 1:17; 3:1; 3:7; 3:11; 3:12; 3:14; 8:16; 12:18; 1 Chronicles 3:10; 2 Chronicles 17:1; 17:3; 17:5; 17:10; 17:11; 17:12; 18:1; 18:3; 18:4; 18:6; 18:7; 18:9; 18:17; 18:28; 18:29; 18:31; 19:1; 19:2; 19:4; 19:8; 20:1; 20:2; 20:3; 20:5; 20:15; 20:18; 20:20; 20:25; 20:27; 20:30; 20:31; 20:34; 20:35; 20:37; 21:1; 21:2; 21:12; 22:9; Joel 3:2; 3:12
Josaphat:
Matthew 1:8
Jehoram:
1 Kings 22:50; 2 Kings 1:17; 8:16; 8:25; 8:29; 12:18; 2 Chronicles 21:1; 21:3; 21:4; 21:5; 21:9; 21:16; 22:1; 22:6; 22:11
Joram:
2 Kings 8:21; 8:23; 8:24; 11:2; 1 Chronicles 3:11; Matthew 1:8
Ahaziah:
2 Kings 8:24; 8:25; 8:26; 8:29; 9:16; 9:21; 9:23; 9:27; 9:29; 10:13; 11:1; 11:2; 12:18; 13:1; 14:13; 1 Chronicles 3:11; 2 Chronicles 22:1; 22:2; 22:7; 22:8; 22:9; 22:10; 22:11
Azariah:
Jehoahaz:
2 Chronicles 22:6
Jehoahaz:
2 Chronicles 21:17; 25:23
Jehoash:
2 Kings 11:21; 12:1; 12:2; 12:4; 12:6; 12:7; 12:18; 14:13
Joash:
2 Kings 11:2; 12:19; 12:20; 13:1; 13:10; 14:1; 14:3; 14:17; 14:23; 1 Chronicles 3:11; 2 Chronicles 22:11; 24:1; 24:2; 24:4; 24:22; 24:24; 25:23; 25:25
Amaziah:
2 Kings 12:21; 13:12; 14:1; 14:8; 14:9; 14:11; 14:13; 14:15; 14:17; 14:18; 14:21; 14:23; 15:1; 15:3; 1 Chronicles 3:12; 2 Chronicles 24:27; 25:1; 25:5; 25:9; 25:10; 25:11; 25:13; 25:14; 25:15; 25:17; 25:18; 25:20; 25:21; 25:23; 25:25; 25:26; 25:27; 26:1; 26:4
Azariah:
2 Kings 14:21; 15:1; 15:6; 15:7; 15:8; 15:17; 15:23; 15:27; 1 Chronicles 3:12
Ozias:
Matthew 1:8; 1:9
Uzziah:
2 Kings 15:13; 15:30; 15:32; 15:34; 2 Chronicles 26:1; 26:3; 26:8; 26:9; 26:11; 26:14; 26:18; 26:19; 26:21; 26:22; 26:23; 27:2; Isaiah 1:1; 6:1; 7:1; Hosea 1:1; Amos 1:1; Zechariah 14:5
Matthew 1:8; 1:9
Uzziah:
2 Kings 15:13; 15:30; 15:32; 15:34; 2 Chronicles 26:1; 26:3; 26:8; 26:9; 26:11; 26:14; 26:18; 26:19; 26:21; 26:22; 26:23; 27:2; Isaiah 1:1; 6:1; 7:1; Hosea 1:1; Amos 1:1; Zechariah 14:5
[1] Asa [great, great, great, great grand "father" of Uzziah/Ozias/Azariah]
[2] Jehoshaphat/Josaphat [great, great, great grand "father" of Uzziah/Ozias/Azariah]
[3] Jehoram/Joram [great, great grand "father" of Uzziah/Ozias/Azariah]
[4] Ahaziah/Ariah/Jehoahaz [great grand "father" of Uzziah/Ozias/Azariah]
[5] Jehoash/Joash [grand "father" of Uzziah/Ozias/Azariah]
[6] Amaziah ["father" of Uzziah/Ozias/Azariah]
[7] Azariah/Uzziah/Ozias
Therefore, both "Joram" and "Amaziah" are/is the "father" of Uzziah/Ozias/Azariah, with "Amaziah" being the immediate "father", and "Joram/Jehoram" being the great, great grand "father".
This is simply the way the Bible identifies previous ancestors, and does not have to list the whole geneology in every instance, as the writers are inspired by the Holy Ghost to choose the various names which are needful, or to be highlighted.
A person can verify this chronology here - Complete Bible Genealogy - Jesus family tree - Kings of Judah and Israel
James 4:5 is not quoting verbatim scripture, nor saying that it is. It's paraphrasing what is in scripture, which is done in sermons all the time. See Proverbs 21:10; Psalms 81:12, &c.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Do you know of any contradicts?
If you do not want to know the answer do not ask someone that has degrees in theology.
A lot of these have some reasonable explanations.
Some of these are just noting the difference in the Jewish religion and the Christian religion. For those that like to mix or combine the Jewish and Christian religions, they pose some problems.
If you do not want to know the answer do not ask someone that has degrees in theology.
A lot of these have some reasonable explanations.
Some of these are just noting the difference in the Jewish religion and the Christian religion. For those that like to mix or combine the Jewish and Christian religions, they pose some problems.
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