The god of mormonism, Omnipresent?

justbyfaith · Dec 2, 2020

I have asked this question of @Jane_Doe22 and her response was to accuse me of stalking her. So I will not be speaking to her any more on this issue unless she directly addresses me from a public standpoint.

Previously she had told me that the god of mormonism is Omnipresent.

So I sent her this question:

Would you please expound further on the idea that God is Omnipresent in mormonism?

It is my understanding that in mormonism, God the Father is a man.

My understanding of the biblical Father is that He is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) and that He is Omnipresent (Psalms 139).
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@Jane_Doe22, if you are listening, know that I am not stalking you but attempting to get a valid answer to my question from any other mormons that may frequent these boards. For I do not expect you to answer me. If you do, I will feel that I have the liberty to respond; but I am fully aware from your attitude in response to me that you want nothing further to do with me; and therefore, as long as you say nothing to me, I will say nothing further to you.

But this post is addressed, not to you in particular, but to any mormon that might be able to answer my question. It is religious in nature and has nothing to do with you.

Love in Christ,

@justbyfaith

2nd Timothy Group · Dec 5, 2020

Hey . . . I like what you did with those six verses above.

justbyfaith · Dec 5, 2020

What six verses?

ReChoired · Dec 6, 2020

justbyfaith said:
I have asked this question of @Jane_Doe22 and her response was to accuse me of stalking her.

Yeah, well I got that too. So do we get matching jackets?

It is her M.O. to simply stop responding or to accuse when the LDS theology is broached/breached. I hope she would change her mind, and consider at least these things. They are important.

As the Bible goes, the LDS side of this is closer to the truth, though it does err significantly in several aspects.

God the Father is Omnipresent through His Omniscience, as the Psalms 139 shows. God the Father is in a single location in Heaven, upon the Throne, as many texts show. God the Father has "form". It is just not taken to the extreme with the male genital organ as in LDS theology.

So if you want, I can address most of that position, though I cannot fully take the LDS position.

justbyfaith · Dec 6, 2020

ReChoired said:
So if you want, I can address most of that position, though I cannot fully take the LDS position.

By all means do so (try to keep it short and not too lengthy).

ReChoired · Dec 6, 2020

justbyfaith said:
By all means do so (try to keep it short and not too lengthy).

There are Three Persons/Beings of the family JEHOVAH Elohiym.

[1] The eternal (Psalms 90:2) Father JEHOVAH (the Ancient of Days; Daniel 7:9,13,22),

[2] the eternal (John 1:1-3; 1 John 1:1-3; Proverbs 8:22-36; Micah 5:2) Son, Jesus JEHOVAH (the Son of God/Son of Man, the Word), and

[3] the eternal (Hebrews 9:14) Holy Ghost/Spirit of JEHOVAH (aka JEHOVAH's Spirit).

The Father and the Son share the same nature (Hebrews 1:1-3; Zechariah 13:7), but the nature of the Holy Ghost/Spirit is a mystery never addressed in scripture. The Father holds a position above that of the Son in the Throne (Genesis 41:40), which they both sit in (Revelation 3:21, 22:3), but it is the Son which sits at the right hand of the Father, and in relationship (as Father to Son; Exodus 20:12).

The Father is not a perfume, not an aethereal essence pervading the universe (and thus neither the Son).

Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Luk_11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

He, the Father, is a "Person", even His person (Job 13:8; Hebrews 1:3), of which Jesus (the Son) is the "express image" of.

As for the rest, see "His person" (Job 13:8); "form of God" (Philippians 2:6), "shape" (John 5:37), "image" (Genesis 1:26,27; Hebrews 1:3), "likeness" (Genesis 1:26,27), "being" (Acts 17:28), has a very real movable "Throne" on which He sits (Daniel 7:9-10; Revelation 4-5, &c), has "the hair of his head like the pure wool" (Daniel 7:9), "whose garment was white as snow" (Daniel 7:9), has a "right hand" (Revelation 5:1; Acts 7:55-56), able to be looked upon, "to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone" (Revelation 4:2), having His own "nature" (Galatians 4:8), "presence" (Luke 1:19), and "voice" (2 Peter 1:17-18), which means lips, vocal chords and upper chest, "eyes of the Lord" (Psalms 34:15), and "ears" (Psalms 34;15), able to "arise", or stand up (Psalms 7:6), and "sat" down (Revelation 4:2).

See also "back parts" (Exodus 33:23), and even a "divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4), see also "under his feet" (Exodus 24:20).

The angels are also called 'spirits' and "persons" ("fellows"; Hebrews 1:9), "young man" (Mark 16:5; Daniel 9:21; &c), and yet have real celestial (Heavenly) "bodies" with unfallen angelic "flesh" (1 Corinthians 15:35-58; Jude 1:7, Genesis 17-19, &c) an unfallen heavenly "nature" (Hebrews 2:16), where as we have bodies terrestrial (dust).

The Son is also a "person" (Hebrews 1:3; 2 Corinthians 2:10; Matthew 27:24; Deuteronomy 27:25; &c), the "only begotten" (meaning of His eternal nature as Deity; Philippians 2) of the Father's Person.

So is the Holy Ghost a Person/Being (John 14:16; &c) but His Nature is a mystery in scripture, never revealed.

Mankind are also called 'spirits' (1 Peter 3:19; Hebrews 12:23, which word is always associated with "heart"/"mind" (thinking intelligence) in scripture, and yet are real tangible beings, with bodies (made of dust), made in the "image" and "likeness" of God, thus having tangible bodily form.

Philippians 2:6; Daniel 3:25; Genesis 18:4, 19:2; Exodus 24:10-11; Psalms 18:9; John 5:37; Exodus 33:23,20,22; Daniel 7:9-10,13; Ezekiel 1:1,8,26-28; Acts 7:55-56; Psalms 24:1-10; John 20:17; 1 Peter 3:22; Matthew 18:10; Revelation 1:13-20, 2:1, 4:1-11, 5:1-14; Hebrews 1:13; Colossians 1:3-6; Numbers 12:8; Isaiah 45:23, 48:3; Revelation 3:16; Psalms 89:34; Psalms 104:33, 146:2; Acts 17:28; Genesis 1:26-27; Colossians 1:15; &c.

It is the quickest (shortest) summary I know how to give.

2nd Timothy Group · Dec 6, 2020

justbyfaith said:
What six verses?

The six below everything you write.

ChristisGod · Dec 6, 2020

The Son and Holy Spirit are Omnipresent, Omnipotent and Omniscient just as the Father is Omni P.P.S.

justbyfaith · Dec 6, 2020

ReChoired said:
There are Three Persons/Beings of the family JEHOVAH Elohiym.

[1] The eternal (Psalms 90:2) Father JEHOVAH (the Ancient of Days; Daniel 7:9,13,22),

[2] the eternal (John 1:1-3; 1 John 1:1-3; Proverbs 8:22-36; Micah 5:2) Son, Jesus JEHOVAH (the Son of God/Son of Man, the Word), and

[3] the eternal (Hebrews 9:14) Holy Ghost/Spirit of JEHOVAH (aka JEHOVAH's Spirit).

The Father and the Son share the same nature (Hebrews 1:1-3; Zechariah 13:7), but the nature of the Holy Ghost/Spirit is a mystery never addressed in scripture. The Father holds a position above that of the Son in the Throne (Genesis 41:40), which they both sit in (Revelation 3:21, 22:3), but it is the Son which sits at the right hand of the Father, and in relationship (as Father to Son; Exodus 20:12).

The Father is not a perfume, not an aethereal essence pervading the universe (and thus neither the Son).

Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Luk_11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

He, the Father, is a "Person", even His person (Job 13:8; Hebrews 1:3), of which Jesus (the Son) is the "express image" of.

As for the rest, see "His person" (Job 13:8); "form of God" (Philippians 2:6), "shape" (John 5:37), "image" (Genesis 1:26,27; Hebrews 1:3), "likeness" (Genesis 1:26,27), "being" (Acts 17:28), has a very real movable "Throne" on which He sits (Daniel 7:9-10; Revelation 4-5, &c), has "the hair of his head like the pure wool" (Daniel 7:9), "whose garment was white as snow" (Daniel 7:9), has a "right hand" (Revelation 5:1; Acts 7:55-56), able to be looked upon, "to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone" (Revelation 4:2), having His own "nature" (Galatians 4:8), "presence" (Luke 1:19), and "voice" (2 Peter 1:17-18), which means lips, vocal chords and upper chest, "eyes of the Lord" (Psalms 34:15), and "ears" (Psalms 34;15), able to "arise", or stand up (Psalms 7:6), and "sat" down (Revelation 4:2).

See also "back parts" (Exodus 33:23), and even a "divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4), see also "under his feet" (Exodus 24:20).

The angels are also called 'spirits' and "persons" ("fellows"; Hebrews 1:9), "young man" (Mark 16:5; Daniel 9:21; &c), and yet have real celestial (Heavenly) "bodies" with unfallen angelic "flesh" (1 Corinthians 15:35-58; Jude 1:7, Genesis 17-19, &c) an unfallen heavenly "nature" (Hebrews 2:16), where as we have bodies terrestrial (dust).

The Son is also a "person" (Hebrews 1:3; 2 Corinthians 2:10; Matthew 27:24; Deuteronomy 27:25; &c), the "only begotten" (meaning of His eternal nature as Deity; Philippians 2) of the Father's Person.

So is the Holy Ghost a Person/Being (John 14:16; &c) but His Nature is a mystery in scripture, never revealed.

Mankind are also called 'spirits' (1 Peter 3:19; Hebrews 12:23, which word is always associated with "heart"/"mind" (thinking intelligence) in scripture, and yet are real tangible beings, with bodies (made of dust), made in the "image" and "likeness" of God, thus having tangible bodily form.

Philippians 2:6; Daniel 3:25; Genesis 18:4, 19:2; Exodus 24:10-11; Psalms 18:9; John 5:37; Exodus 33:23,20,22; Daniel 7:9-10,13; Ezekiel 1:1,8,26-28; Acts 7:55-56; Psalms 24:1-10; John 20:17; 1 Peter 3:22; Matthew 18:10; Revelation 1:13-20, 2:1, 4:1-11, 5:1-14; Hebrews 1:13; Colossians 1:3-6; Numbers 12:8; Isaiah 45:23, 48:3; Revelation 3:16; Psalms 89:34; Psalms 104:33, 146:2; Acts 17:28; Genesis 1:26-27; Colossians 1:15; &c.

It is the quickest (shortest) summary I know how to give.

So, the Son is greater than the Father (see John 14:28)?

Because scripture says (in Ephesians 4:10) that He rose to fill all things (thus is Omnipresent).

And yet, He is also come in a finite body of human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

ReChoired · Dec 6, 2020

justbyfaith said:
So, the Son is greater than the Father (see John 14:28)?

No. I said that the Father is "greater".

justbyfaith said:
Because scripture says (in Ephesians 4:10) that He rose to fill all things (thus is Omnipresent).

The Father is not a "thing" that Jesus is over:

1Co_15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

The Son always maintains the relationship of Son to Father, and is always submitted to the Father's Will.

I already addressed Omnipresence. God is Omnipresent by His Omniscience, Psalms 139.

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

That means to fulfill, as to bring to pass as prophesied. It is not speaking about Omnipresence. It is speaking that He had to come down, and then go back up to where He was before:

Joh_6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Mat_26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Mar_14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Joh_14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Mat_3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Act_13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Act_3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Joh_19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

etc.

justbyfaith said:
And yet, He is also come in a finite body of human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

I already agree that the Son has dual nature, Deity/Mankind.

Enoch111 · Dec 6, 2020

justbyfaith said:
I have asked this question of @Jane_Doe22 and her response was to accuse me of stalking her.

It sure appears that way. You are obsessed with Mormonism. Take a trip to Salt Lake City. You might end up as John Doe.

Jane_Doe22 · Dec 6, 2020

Enoch111 said:
It sure appears that way. You are obsessed with Mormonism. Take a trip to Salt Lake City. You might end up as John Doe.

You do realize that vast majority of LDS Christians ( including myself) don’t live in Salt Lake City. In fact majority don’t even like in the USA.

ChristisGod · Dec 6, 2020

Enoch111 said:
It sure appears that way. You are obsessed with Mormonism. Take a trip to Salt Lake City. You might end up as John Doe.

he stalks me around here as well.

ReChoired · Dec 6, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
You do realize that vast majority of LDS Christians ( including myself) don’t live in Salt Lake City. In fact majority don’t even like in the USA.

What do you think of the Seventh-day Adventist position stated above? The god of mormonism, Omnipresent?

justbyfaith · Dec 6, 2020

ReChoired said:
That means to fulfill, as to bring to pass as prophesied. It is not speaking about Omnipresence.

I think that we will have to agree to disagree here. The word very clearly says "fill".

Christophany said:
he stalks me around here as well.

I forgive you for saying that. May the Lord also receive you as a son.

ReChoired · Dec 6, 2020

justbyfaith said:
I think that we will have to agree to disagree here.

What a cop out.

justbyfaith said:
The word very clearly says "fill".

Yes, and that is old English that you are reading through a 21st century mindset.

See Websters 1828, even cites this:

"To complete; as, to fill up the measure of sin. Matthew 23:32."

Strong's even gives the same as one of the definitions:

"G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply."''

Thayer's doesn't disagree:

"G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
Thayer Definition:
1) to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
1a) to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
1a1) I abound, I am liberally supplied
2) to render full, i.e. to complete
2a) to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
2b) to consummate: a number
2b1) to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
2b2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
2c) to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
2c1) of matters of duty: to perform, execute
2c2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
2c3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God’s will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God’s promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment"

So even in that it means to fulfil. To "fill" in the first sense, can also mean to fill up the prophecies to completion. The context is speaking about the completion of Prophecies, of the Messiah coming down, and going back up with trophies.

Notice the prophecy:

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Psa 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

Jesus filled that prophecy. That was Paul's point.

God the Father is already identified as Omnipresent in vs 6 and vs 7 is the "but", a differing subject.

justbyfaith · Dec 6, 2020

I personally believe that Jesus rose to fill all things and you will not be able to convince me otherwise.

For your doctrine is indeed strange to my ears.

ChristisGod · Dec 6, 2020

ReChoired said:
What a cop out.

Yes, and that is old English that you are reading through a 21st century mindset.

See Websters 1828, even cites this:

"To complete; as, to fill up the measure of sin. Matthew 23:32."

Strong's even gives the same as one of the definitions:

"G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply."''

Thayer's doesn't disagree:

"G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
Thayer Definition:
1) to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
1a) to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
1a1) I abound, I am liberally supplied
2) to render full, i.e. to complete
2a) to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
2b) to consummate: a number
2b1) to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
2b2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
2c) to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
2c1) of matters of duty: to perform, execute
2c2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
2c3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God’s will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God’s promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment"

So even in that it means to fulfil. To "fill" in the first sense, can also mean to fill up the prophecies to completion. The context is speaking about the completion of Prophecies, of the Messiah coming down, and going back up with trophies.

Notice the prophecy:

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Psa 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

Jesus filled that prophecy. That was Paul's point.

God the Father is already identified as Omnipresent in vs 6 and vs 7 is the "but", a differing subject.

ditto

Enoch111 · Dec 6, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
You do realize that vast majority of LDS Christians ( including myself) don’t live in Salt Lake City. In fact majority don’t even like in the USA.

True. But the heart of Mormonism (including the Mormon Temple) is in Salt Lake City, Utah, USA (which I have visited).

Christians should learn about the history of the Mormons, since they were severely persecuted, even though the US Constitution guarantees freedom of religion. At the same time, some of them brought persecution upon themselves.

The US government in the 19th century persecuted them for polygamy, which was unconstitutional.
"All Mormons who practiced polygamy were disenfranchised: stripped of the right to vote or forbidden to hold public office. Many of them were also jailed. Although this clearly violated U.S. constitutional law forbidding ex post facto laws, over 1,300 men were jailed."
Mormon Persecution Period

Clearly I am not a Mormon, but that does not mean that we should encourage or condone their freedom of religious beliefs to be attacked by the governments. That kind of tyranny affects all Christians.

The god of mormonism, Omnipresent?

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