Lustful Passions

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Jimmy Engle

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1Th 4:3-5 - For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God;

Matthew 5:27-28 - "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

1 John 2:16 - For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Proverbs 7:21-27 - With her many persuasions she entices him; With her flattering lips she seduces him. Suddenly he follows her As an ox goes to the slaughter, Or as one in fetters to the discipline of a fool, Until an arrow pierces through his liver; As a bird hastens to the snare, So he does not know that it will cost him his life. Now therefore, my sons, listen to me, And pay attention to the words of my mouth. Do not let your heart turn aside to her ways, Do not stray into her paths. For many are the victims she has cast down, And numerous are all her slain. Her house is the way to Sheol, Descending to the chambers of death.

Sometimes I lose grips with how serious sin is. Scripture makes it clear especially in 1 Cor 6:9-10 that anyone who lives in such a way will not inherit the kingdom of God. They are just like the gentiles who do not know God and they prove themselves to be condemned through their lack of knowledge. They are living as slaves to their own lusts. We see in 1 John 2:16 that Satan works through three avenues against us. All one has to do is just observe the average person and see what occupies there lives and time.

One preacher made this statement that is so true, "What do you talk about most? There's your God. What do you think about most? There's your God. What do you have your eyes set upon? There is your mission and your God and your heart and your treasure." I myself can become so controlled by the lusts of my flesh that it sends me in a downward spiral of guilt and self pity. Scripture shows that if we don't repent of these evil ways of living and turn to Christ then we will be headed towards the way to Sheol which is the chambers of death according to Proverbs 7.

The scripture above should put fear in all who struggle with lust. We need to grow in sanctification and abstain from sexual immorality. We must strive for purity.
I just felt like sharing what God has placed upon my heart. We should all pray for any who struggle with sexual immorality. We live in a time when pornography is found everywhere and everyone has access. It is damning many people to hell and many are struggling with addiction and need prayer and deliverance through Christ who can do all things for those that believe upon His name.
 

Endzone

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It is damning many people to hell and many are struggling with addiction and need prayer and deliverance through Christ who can do all things for those that believe upon His name.

So, the 50% of pastors who have looked at porn and/or struggle with some type of sexual sin in their live are going to hell? The 50% of Christian men who have struggled with it are going to hell? Please clarify.
 

Foreigner

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So, the 50% of pastors who have looked at porn and/or struggle with some type of sexual sin in their live are going to hell? The 50% of Christian men who have struggled with it are going to hell? Please clarify.


- If they do not repent and turn away from it, the answer is 'yes.' They will die in their sins.
 

Endzone

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- If they do not repent and turn away from it, the answer is 'yes.' They will die in their sins.


Well here we go. The old "once saved always saved" vs. "not once saved always saved" saga. Well, I know of 2 cases where 2 brothers in the Lord struggled very much with homosexuality. Both were Christians and not just in name only. Both had evidence of the Holy Spirit operating in their life. Both died in their 20s from AIDs. One had his significant other at the hospital there with him when he died. The other never had a significant other, but he was just into the promiscuity of it like so many people who are in this horrible bondage. This brother never really completely walked away from it except when he became so sick he couldn't physically function like that any more. He called upon the Lord for mercy and repented. He did a video tape of the regrets he had in his life. In your opinion are they both going to hell?

What about "whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"? The ole question about if Christians can lose their salvation or not. I'm 53, and I still don't have all my convictions about this except that more and more as I experience how the Lord deals with sin in Chritians, you will go to hell if you really want to go there. Otherwise Jesus will knows how to keep those that are His just as he says in His word.

Are word of caution to you 20-somethings and 30-somethings on here. You don't have all your convinctions about things at this age. Dont' spout off on this board in some kind of fake display like do! You go that? Thanks.
 

Foreigner

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Joseph Stalin at one time was a Christian attending Seminary in the country of Georgia.

According to OSAS, the 60 million people dead under his instruction would not prevent him from being welcomed into Heaven.

Jesus hates sin. It seems rather obtuse to think that he would tolerate it and allow you into heaven if you are bathed in it at the time of your death just because once upon a time in your past you made a commitment to Him.

Having said that, regardless of your status with Him, if you repent (truly repent) before you die and do your very best to sin no more, and continue to live that way, seeking forgiveness for your sins, He will forgive and accept you.
 

Jimmy Engle

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Well if you are in bondage to any sin then you are going to hell. The verses above are specifically talking about sexual immorality and I think they clearly tell us where one will end up if they don't repent. Now we most use discernment of course. There is a big difference between being in bondage to sin vs. just struggling. There is a necessity to look for evidence of salvation in such as these. If you have a pastor who is struggling with sexual sins and temptations...they could very well not be saved at all and the whole thing is just a work of the flesh.

Sanctification is something that should be expected and seen for all who profess to know Him. So the question is...has this person who is falling to sin been gaining any victory from it over the years? Or are they still in bondage. If I say I am christian and after 20 years I am still constantly falling into the same sins over and over again without any progress....then there is no sanctification there at all. We should grow in holiness and distance ourselves from the world. From the moment of conversion until the day you go to be with the Lord...there should be visible evidence that you have grown in righteousness and the sins you used to be committing you are now free of.

So again, it's so easy to judge a person and say that they are not saved....
Sanctification should be visible in the life of the believer.
If a person is not gaining victory over the years and cannot break the bondage to sin then I would have to say that it is clear evidence that the Father is not at work in that person. God sees to it that all of His children walk in the narrow way and grow in holiness and bear more and more fruit as they continue in His ways.
 

Endzone

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Well if you are in bondage to any sin then you are going to hell

Completely disagree. Also it would help if you clarify "you". Is you a Christian or an unbeliever? I'm assuming you is a Christian.


If a person is not gaining victory over the years and cannot break the bondage to sin then I would have to say that it is clear evidence that the Father is not at work in that person

I disagree based on the experience of my own life. The Lord has been very much at work in me over these years trying to bring me to a place of deliverance from this sin. Sexual sin is the hardest to break free from--much more addictive than heroin. Some Christians have struggled for 30 years before they were finally free.
 

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Joseph Stalin at one time was a Christian attending Seminary in the country of Georgia.

According to OSAS, the 60 million people dead under his instruction would not prevent him from being welcomed into Heaven.

Jesus hates sin. It seems rather obtuse to think that he would tolerate it and allow you into heaven if you are bathed in it at the time of your death just because once upon a time in your past you made a commitment to Him.

Having said that, regardless of your status with Him, if you repent (truly repent) before you die and do your very best to sin no more, and continue to live that way, seeking forgiveness for your sins, He will forgive and accept you.

Won't work. Repentance and good works aren't enough.

Since you wrote of bathing, may I also mention that the ONLY way past the pearly gates is if one is BATHED in the blood of the lamb (meaning Jesus).

He will meet us at the entrance (not St. Peter) and say "I suffered for you", or He will not.

Where is the blood in your life? Are you bathed in it?

If not, all your pretended righteousness is just smoke & mirrors, much ado about nothing, empty bragging which means nothing to God.
 

Jimmy Engle

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1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

If you claim to be a child of God and you never break free from any or all of these labels...you will not inherit the kingdom of God. Christianity is a narrow way..it is fighting against the world. We are to be holy/separate. We should be far different from the carnal.
So, if you claim to know God and yet you are living in your sins such as lust after another women which is committing adultery in the heart and you are never able to break the hold it has on you....then it proves that the Father is not at work in you because the bible teaches clearly that God sanctifies everyone who is His.

It is also dangerous to compare yourselves with others. Compare yourself to the scriptures. Don't compare yourself to other "Christians" or your experiences. Don't let your faith be guided by sight...journey down from those high places, for they are dangerous.

The you I was referring to cannot be a Christian because Christians are not in bondage to sin. They grow in holiness over the course of there lives. The problem is that what people determine a christian to be is not biblical. Just because I jump up and down screaming I love Jesus and I wear a t shirt or give out track or street preach or become a pastor or write books or any other thing...does not mean I am Christian even though it appears to everyone else that I am.

Do you want to know what your profession of faith in Jesus Christ is worth? Your profession of faith in Him...what it's worth? The answer is this, it's worth absolutely nothing.
 

Jimmy Engle

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Endzone, I showed the scripture and I don't know how I can explain this anymore clearly to you....if you were lost lets say (hypothetical) and had a drinking problem...then you get saved and 30 years after that you still have a drinking problem.....it proves that you were never truly born again because within that period of 30 years, you should of been growing in holiness.
1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth
Read John 15 if you don't believe me. There should be a work of sanctification in our lives if we are His true children...if not it proves that God isn't at work because we are not His children and still dead in trespasses and sins.

Everything I have told you is the truth. My desire is not to appear smarter or to prove others wrong just for the sake of making myself look good/better. My desire is to glorify God by making much of Him.
 

Grat

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What I find most fascinating about this discussion is what is not said.
I've heard sermon and discussion ad-nausea about sexual sin but I’ve never heard anyone who didn’t skip over most of the list of 1 Cor 6:9-10. Lying, drinking, thieving, reviling (Strong’s translates this as “abusive”), coveting, etc.
However sexual sin is so useful in shifting people’s sense of guilt onto the “others”. It’s a common theme in religion – ensuring there are those we can point to and say “at least we’re not like them”.
None of us can ever live up to God’s standard. You are not perfect - deal with it.
What did Jesus do when faced with a sinner? He got down in the mud with them and helped them to realise their own self-worth and helped them out of the mud. How many of us would earn the title “friend of sinners”.
Do you know what the real sin is here? It’s us, the salt and light, standing in condemnation over those outside (or inside) of the Body, telling them how bad they are instead of loving them till they can stand with us. It’s the church that because of our own lack of power to deliver these sinners, to break the fetters and chains that drag them down, instead use them to sooth our seared consciences. The failure here is ours, don’t ever forget that. We are like the servant in JC’s parable about the servant forgiven a huge debt who goes out and refuses to forgive a fellow servant’s paltry debt. We wield condemnation and guilt as though they are our proper weapons, but forget Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Gentleness, Faithfulness, Goodness and Self Control.

Grat
 

Jimmy Engle

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So...instead of exposing sin and showing them the truth we should instead act nicely to them so that way they won't feel convicted over then sins? I see evangelists do this all the time. They go to preach the gospel and preach it in such a way as to not offend anyone and take the edge off the blade. That is why they have so many carnal church members who are lost in their sins. The biggest mistake people make is to think that some man made method can "help" get people saved.

If a person is in bondage to sin....what ever it may be, they should be told the truth and called to faith and repentance. Will it hurt their feelings? It should. But isn't the truth worth a little pain? You can't compromise the gospel to be loving...or you will end up like Joel Osteen. You can still be loving to someone and show them their sins and tell them about Christ. As a matter of fact, it's the most loving thing you can do for some one.

Now if a saint is struggling with sin there is a proper way to handle that. You confront them about it as a brother would and show them their faults. If they refuse to repent you bring two or three more. If needed get some elders and if they still refuse than kick them out of the church...that's biblical and we need to get back to that. Man made methods always fail...the gospel never does.
 

Grat

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So...instead of exposing sin and showing them the truth we should instead act nicely to them so that way they won't feel convicted over then sins? I see evangelists do this all the time. They go to preach the gospel and preach it in such a way as to not offend anyone and take the edge off the blade. That is why they have so many carnal church members who are lost in their sins. The biggest mistake people make is to think that some man made method can "help" get people saved.

If a person is in bondage to sin....what ever it may be, they should be told the truth and called to faith and repentance. Will it hurt their feelings? It should. But isn't the truth worth a little pain? You can't compromise the gospel to be loving...or you will end up like Joel Osteen. You can still be loving to someone and show them their sins and tell them about Christ. As a matter of fact, it's the most loving thing you can do for some one.

Now if a saint is struggling with sin there is a proper way to handle that. You confront them about it as a brother would and show them their faults. If they refuse to repent you bring two or three more. If needed get some elders and if they still refuse than kick them out of the church...that's biblical and we need to get back to that. Man made methods always fail...the gospel never does.
Funnily enough, the reason that Paul gives for tossing someone out is that they may realise the seriousness of their situation and be restored. Also, the only instances that seem to be recorded are around gross sin bringing the body into disrepute.
Most people don’t need to be told they sin. We all know that we do. But most do need to be reminded about how much they are loved and helped through the healing process. It’s not through guilt and conviction that I am perfected, it’s through love and the Cross.
Sure, there are some who have become “professional” sinners, but for many they just don’t know how to stop sinning. For some, with the strength of mind to just stop, they can, well, just stop. But for most of us it’s a process through which we need help, support, love, patience, understanding and the occasional kick up the behind. God has shown me more mercy then I can even imagine, how can I treat others any differently?

Grat