How does one "receive" Jesus and His subsequent power?

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Ronald Nolette

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D



I agree with Truther
Can I also add that Jesus said baptism saves us:
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 1616)
Belief + baptism = salvation

Peter also says that baptism saves us.
"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you" (1Pet 3:21).

Nowhere does scripture say that baptism is merely a sign that we have been saved.

If Baptism is a work then so is belief. It is a mental work.
But truly baptism is a work of God - when the Holy Spirit renews us; when God forgives our sins; when God accepts us into the New Covenant.

Baptism is the normal way of salvation that Jesus gave us.

1 Peter 3:21
King James Version

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


It is not the immersion in water, but the regenration of the Holy Spirit! If That is true then teh penitent thief was not saved.

If Baptism was so important to salvation, then why was Paul glad that He didn't baptize many people?

1 Cor. 1:

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

It is trust in the gospel message ALONE that saves us!

Romans 1:16
King James Version

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:9-10
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If Baptism was so important for salvation, why does Paul neglect to include it in the verses that speak of Salvation? Because it does not save. One can accept Christ, and die before baptism and they are just as saved as one who trusted Christ and then followed that profession with believers baptism.

We are to be baptized! That is a command! But it is to happen after we believe and not required to be saved! Most believers today do not even know the commitment or soberness of what Baptism means. It is an outward sign of an already existing inward reality. but it is also aoublic declaration that you intend to follow Christ!

And calling belief a work is just playing word games. You know full well that is not what is intended by works in the bible.

But you then cite actions that are all true of teh Holy Spirit Baptism which happens the moment one believes and is saved.

but let me ask you:
Is it your contention that the Ethiopian eunuch was not saved until after he came up out of the water? Even though Philip told HIm He could not get baptized unless He truly believed?

Do you know then that all who were sprinkled are not saved? Baptismo means immersion and not somebody sprinkling water on your head! So every one who has not been immersed in baptism are not saved according to your logic.
 

Mungo

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Jesus said go to Jerusalem to receive power in chapter 1.

They go to Jerusalem and the power is endued from on high in chapter 2.

It does not take a PHD to figure that out.
That is not the only way to be filled with the Holy Spirit as I pointed out in post #5.
You said:
"Anything less than this is not the Acts way to receive Jesus.
You don't get filled with Jesus before nor after this event in your life.
"
which is untrue.

P.S. Are we not talking about being filled with the Holy Spirit, not Jesus?
 
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Mungo

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1 Peter 3:21
King James Version

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


It is not the immersion in water, but the regenration of the Holy Spirit! If That is true then teh penitent thief was not saved.

If Baptism was so important to salvation, then why was Paul glad that He didn't baptize many people?

1 Cor. 1:

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

It is trust in the gospel message ALONE that saves us!

Romans 1:16
King James Version

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:9-10
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If Baptism was so important for salvation, why does Paul neglect to include it in the verses that speak of Salvation? Because it does not save. One can accept Christ, and die before baptism and they are just as saved as one who trusted Christ and then followed that profession with believers baptism.

We are to be baptized! That is a command! But it is to happen after we believe and not required to be saved! Most believers today do not even know the commitment or soberness of what Baptism means. It is an outward sign of an already existing inward reality. but it is also aoublic declaration that you intend to follow Christ!

And calling belief a work is just playing word games. You know full well that is not what is intended by works in the bible.

But you then cite actions that are all true of teh Holy Spirit Baptism which happens the moment one believes and is saved.

but let me ask you:
Is it your contention that the Ethiopian eunuch was not saved until after he came up out of the water? Even though Philip told HIm He could not get baptized unless He truly believed?

Do you know then that all who were sprinkled are not saved? Baptismo means immersion and not somebody sprinkling water on your head! So every one who has not been immersed in baptism are not saved according to your logic.

You need to believe Jesus.
Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
Belief + baptism = salvation

Jesus didn't say believe and be saved and then get baptised.
Jesus said: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved"
Baptism is the normal way of salvation that Jesus gave us.

People who don't believe in baptismal regeneration always try and avoid this text.

I'll address your points when you address this one.
 

teamventure

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So, how is that working for us?

Are we running our race as if there is but one prize? Are we seeing every thought brought into submission to the obedience of Christ? Are we loving one another as Christ loved us? Is His church walking as sojourners, eyes fixed upon Heaven, obeying the Lord with all that is in them?

Whether we want to admit it or not, the early church possessed, or more accuraty, were possessed by what we profess to possess but do not... yet.

Gideon

I really like the content in that first paragraph. Those are the things to strive for as Christians as opposed to experiences of signs and wonders. Let's go for that.

As for that second paragraph, we have the holy spirit, the same one from Pentecost, any new spirit in addition to that would be of satan.

Shalom!
 

teamventure

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Yes, the word of God is our authority, but our lives will either confirm or contradict the Word. For instance, how many of us receive what we pray for? 1 John 3:21-22?

Very good point. And a lot of people who chase signs and wonders are contradicting the word in the way they practice.
 

CharismaticLady

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Very good point. And a lot of people who chase signs and wonders are contradicting the word in the way they practice.

There is a difference between chasing after signs and wonders as a witness, and having signs and wonders follow us by the Spirit.
 

Truman

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The Holy Spirit gives the gift of faith by which one understands that the death of Jesus pays for one's sin guilt and opens the way to the Father.
 

teamventure

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There is a difference between chasing after signs and wonders as a witness, and having signs and wonders follow us by the Spirit.

My observation has been that most people preoccupied with signs and wonders are the ones chasing it and even tapping into the wrong spirit.
 

Gideons300

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There is a difference between chasing after signs and wonders as a witness, and having signs and wonders follow us by the Spirit.
Before I say this, I want you and other readers to understand that I am not saying this is a derogatory way all. I say it with sadness and a deep desire to see the move of God that will usher His return. My motive is love and concern.

So, here goes. So, if we are taking the Word at face value, then are we seeing signs and wonders follow us? And if not, will we try to explain it away or will we admit something is amiss?

Some want to twist my words and my motives to make it seem like I am judging and criticizing the church just because I am just mean spirited and looking for fault. I am accused of broadstroking, like my 'critiques' are meant for almost everyone.

That is not true at all. They are meant for everyone, myself at the head of the line.

Truthfully, it amazes me that any Christian can read what the church was like in the book of Acts, see its depth of quality and simplicity, its selfless love, its white-hot love for souls, its miracles, its 100% yielded throng of joy-filled believers and then compare it to what our Christianity is like 20 centuries later and actually think we are doing well, and that we have the same spirit they possessed.

But far worse than that, it crushes me that being as far, far from what God has for us worse yet, we are found almost to a man content to stay there.

There is little hunger for righteousness among the saints. As Leonard Ravenhill once said "We preach forgiveness, not salvation." Secret sins, big sins, small sins, addictive sins, sins we love, willful sins, and yet because we simply do not believe God can and will keep us from falling, we often see little or no need to fight them, since we can't really defeat them anyway.

Prayer is one sided, and many are inwardly wanting it to be more of a two sided conversation. But because we do not interact with Him, prayer time is often boring, though few will be bold enough to admit it, lol

The power, the miracles, the changed lives, the world turned upside down, all that has been replaced by church as we know it, predictable and lacking life and power.

There is no real passion for soul winning. We possess no real eternity mindedness that brings to the forefront our calling.... to be fishers of men. That is our purpose. And we cannot see it. Men and women are headed to hell, and we have the remedy. Any rational man filled with the spirit would have this burning inside him for that is God's heart. Thank God for the exception, but we all know are do not know what a burden is.

And it is that exact point that needs be made. A man walking in the joy of his salvation is like a candle pulling in the moth. The fact that we are unburdened and they are not drawn to us is screaming at us to wake the heck up!

Guys, I am not saying "Try harder!" I am saying God must awaken us, He must do the changing, and trust me, He can and He will, but we must want it!

We are to seek Him AND His righteousness. We are to long to live truly holy lives, fully yielded lives, and yet we have no clue how to do so. But far too often, we use Jesus as our unfailing forgiveness machine but never get hungry for seeing the fruits of the Spirit grow in us.

It is late. I pray my frustration with your blindness (lol) comes across as loving concern and not finger pointing. If you are not now in agreement with what I am sharing in the OP, I accept that. I just so want you to realize my motive is to see you blessed in a way you cannot yet comprehend. So just tell me you disagree with my premise and the reason why if you are so inclined.

I love you guys.

Gids





 

teamventure

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compare it to what our Christianity is like 20 centuries later and actually think we are doing well, and that we have the same spirit they possessed.


If you don't have the same spirit the early Christians had then you don't have God.
 

CharismaticLady

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Before I say this, I want you and other readers to understand that I am not saying this is a derogatory way all. I say it with sadness and a deep desire to see the move of God that will usher His return. My motive is love and concern.

So, here goes. So, if we are taking the Word at face value, then are we seeing signs and wonders follow us? And if not, will we try to explain it away or will we admit something is amiss?

Some want to twist my words and my motives to make it seem like I am judging and criticizing the church just because I am just mean spirited and looking for fault. I am accused of broadstroking, like my 'critiques' are meant for almost everyone.

That is not true at all. They are meant for everyone, myself at the head of the line.

Truthfully, it amazes me that any Christian can read what the church was like in the book of Acts, see its depth of quality and simplicity, its selfless love, its white-hot love for souls, its miracles, its 100% yielded throng of joy-filled believers and then compare it to what our Christianity is like 20 centuries later and actually think we are doing well, and that we have the same spirit they possessed.

But far worse than that, it crushes me that being as far, far from what God has for us worse yet, we are found almost to a man content to stay there.

There is little hunger for righteousness among the saints. As Leonard Ravenhill once said "We preach forgiveness, not salvation." Secret sins, big sins, small sins, addictive sins, sins we love, willful sins, and yet because we simply do not believe God can and will keep us from falling, we often see little or no need to fight them, since we can't really defeat them anyway.

Prayer is one sided, and many are inwardly wanting it to be more of a two sided conversation. But because we do not interact with Him, prayer time is often boring, though few will be bold enough to admit it, lol

The power, the miracles, the changed lives, the world turned upside down, all that has been replaced by church as we know it, predictable and lacking life and power.

There is no real passion for soul winning. We possess no real eternity mindedness that brings to the forefront our calling.... to be fishers of men. That is our purpose. And we cannot see it. Men and women are headed to hell, and we have the remedy. Any rational man filled with the spirit would have this burning inside him for that is God's heart. Thank God for the exception, but we all know are do not know what a burden is.

And it is that exact point that needs be made. A man walking in the joy of his salvation is like a candle pulling in the moth. The fact that we are unburdened and they are not drawn to us is screaming at us to wake the heck up!

Guys, I am not saying "Try harder!" I am saying God must awaken us, He must do the changing, and trust me, He can and He will, but we must want it!

We are to seek Him AND His righteousness. We are to long to live truly holy lives, fully yielded lives, and yet we have no clue how to do so. But far too often, we use Jesus as our unfailing forgiveness machine but never get hungry for seeing the fruits of the Spirit grow in us.

It is late. I pray my frustration with your blindness (lol) comes across as loving concern and not finger pointing. If you are not now in agreement with what I am sharing in the OP, I accept that. I just so want you to realize my motive is to see you blessed in a way you cannot yet comprehend. So just tell me you disagree with my premise and the reason why if you are so inclined.

I love you guys.

Gids






I'm rather curious if you are addressing this to me? If so, exactly what?
 

CharismaticLady

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My observation has been that most people preoccupied with signs and wonders are the ones chasing it and even tapping into the wrong spirit.

I've heard Cessationists say "wrong spirit," even "demonic." I actually hear what you are saying, but are you a Cessationist? I was before I discovered that the New Covenant will not change in any way until the end of the Covenant. In other words, what took place in the first century should have been the model throughout. But that all stopped when the first pagan temple was made into a church building, along with some of the trappings of the pagan culture, when paganism was deemed illegal, and Christianity became the state relition. That was two emperors after Constantine. But in the late 1800's a new zeal to bring the Church back in order happened, and the latter rain fell releasing a new denomination called Pentecostalism - "returning to Pentecost." They were the first in centuries to heed all the writings of the New Testament, including the laws of the gifts of the Spirit. But people are people and itching ears can be found anywhere giving place to false doctrines of wealth and prosperity if you named it and claimed it. In other words, we are in charge, and God is our servant to fetch and carry. No! Some of the gifts of the Spirit can allow us to hear God's voice, and He will tell us what His will is, and only then should we pray what He said, and it will come to pass. We are to WAIT on God, not the other way around.

So in your view of today's Word of Faith, do not think for a moment that everyone who has the gifts of the Spirit apply them in the same "spirit."
 

Gideons300

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I'm rather curious if you are addressing this to me? If so, exactly what?
My dear sister, I am addressing this to US, with me at the head of the list. This is a whole church problem.

There is no question that the Holy Spirit is active today, more in some, less in others, but as to whether or not we are walking as they walked fresh out of Pentecost, other than a few bright burning points of light, most may indeed possess the Holy Spirit in measure, but, He does not (yet) possess them.

You are one of the shining lights, in my humble opinion, and I am so pleased you are here and active on this forum.

blessings,

Gids
 

Gideons300

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If you don't have the same spirit the early Christians had then you don't have God.
You know that scripture where God's people were "healed only slightly, saying peace, peace, when there is no peace"?

That right there. We have living water... in measure. We need the tsunami, but until we tell God our need, and cry out to Him as Paul did to be delivered from ourselves, our old carnal nature, we will continue on, unaware at how much more our God has for us..... and that we will soon need it to keep our heads above the flood of evil about to be released.

God tells us that godliness with contentment is great gain. But contentment without godliness not even being our bucket list is great deception.

blessings.

Gids
 

JesusLovesYou

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Actually, receiving Jesus is no less than having this happen to you...


4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


Anything less than this is not the Acts way to receive Jesus.

You don't get filled with Jesus before nor after this event in your life.

This should be the Christian's goal.

Reject what men told you if you heard it is just a simple confession.

This event in Acts 2:4 is the "Power" Jesus spoke of in chapter 1.

One is filled with the Holy Spirit in the moment is salvation, not when speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues is a manifestation of being filled with the Holy Spirit, and the interesting thing about it is that it is a manifestation to those around you rather than something one possesses. In other words, in Acts chapter two, the apostles were heard speaking in tongues by the foreign Jews who came to Jerusalem. And what seems interesting is that many churches try to imitate what happened then in some other way, instead of praying that the Holy Spirit would speak to those who have never heard the word; they are more concerned with the manifestation rather than the One who manifests Himself and can make himself heard to anyone when He is present. Not to say that those churches lack the presence of the Holy Spirit, but again, speaking in tongues is a manifestation for the unbelievers, not a sign of being saved for the believers.
 

Ronald Nolette

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You need to believe Jesus.
Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
Belief + baptism = salvation

Jesus didn't say believe and be saved and then get baptised.
Jesus said: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved"
Baptism is the normal way of salvation that Jesus gave us.

People who don't believe in baptismal regeneration always try and avoid this text.

I'll address your points when you address this one.


And those who believe in baptismal regenration neglect this verse which shows what Baptism:

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

or this:

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

It is teh Spirit Baptism that ushers into teh new life (salvation) not being immersed in water.

If Baptism is the normal way to save us- then you conclude that Pau was in opposition to Jesus.

Romans 10:9-10
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 1:16
King James Version

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:16
King James Version

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

1 Corinthians 1:13-18
King James Version

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And Peter is in opposition to Jesus as well.

1 Peter 3:21
King James Version

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Sorry, water baptism is essential for a believer, but not for san unbeliever to become a believer! Spirit Baptism is the baptism that is essential for an unbeliever to become a believer!

Water Baptism is a public declaration of the inward reality and commitment that has taken place already!

Believe and be saved then be baptized.
 

Truther

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Romans 7 is the old man before Christ and His Spirit, but look at the conclusion of that passage in context, Romans 8:2. Who got free from the old man of sin and death? Do you see that it was Paul?

Rule: Context of a verse should always be found by reading the preceding 20 verses before the verse, and 20 verses after the verse. If that had been done, most would not have overlooked Romans 8:2-9 when trying to apply Romans 7:14-23 to themselves.

What Paul was teaching is the difference between those keeping the Ten Commandments before Christ's Spirit, and by their old flesh, and those after Christ who have the laws of God written on their heart. Old Covenant vs. New Covenant. Law vs. Spirit. Before Christ vs. After Christ. Get it?

What do you think about Romans 6:6 below? I'm not mocking you; I'm wondering too why Paul sometimes says to take off the old man. So let's study this together. I want to look at those other verses, at the bottom, and see if Paul is talking about those pseudo Christians in the Church that have never been born again, like depicted in 1 Corinthians, who were finally saved in 2 Corinthians 7. For me I wasn't for the first 30 years, so I doubt I'm the only one who went to church unsaved! At the time, I was so entrenched in sin that I'm sure Matthew 7:21-23 would have been said to me. I'm so glad I didn't die early!

Romans 6:6
knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

2 Corinthians 7:8 For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while. 9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. 11 For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

That brings me to another doctrinal problem. Why were the Corinthians called carnal when they "fell short in no gift of the Holy Spirit"? Of course, Romans 11 says that the gifts of God are irrevocable, so can the old nature be resurrected, as Matthew 7:21-23 seems to say? To me, receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit causes us to be born again. See my dilemma? I do believe that we are put on the path of being saved, and that we can fall off that path unless we endure to the end. I, at least, don't believe that our salvation is secure from the beginning. So, no, I don't believe OSAS is possible from the beginning, or that you can fall off and remain "saved." My "assurance" is more in line with 1 John 3:21-24.

And 2 Peter 1:
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

It appears there in 10-11 that those who continue to sin are those who stumble, and their entrance to heaven is NOT sure.

Other verses:

Ephesians 4:22
that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,

Colossians 3:9
Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,
No, Romans 7 is during Paul's life in Christ...."oh wretched man that I am...." present tense. etc.

Paul was simply saying we have inner opposition.

The human spirit that is connected to Christ is saved from death but the carnal man is not.

Romans 7 details this.....


14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.



...present tense.