Who Is This Son Of Man From The East?

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whirlwind

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In study today I was searching for an answer to a problem but was given an answer to a verse that I didn't realize needed an answer...until my eyes were opened. Christ warned His disciples about the tribulation of end times.....



Matthew 24:24-28 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth: behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles (vultures) be gathered together.


24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​


The passage shows Christ warning us about the liars, then about lightning from the east, then telling us about the carcase and eagles (properly translated - vultures). After all of that He says..."immediately after the tribulation of those days!!!" I believe all of that was about the tribulation and includes the coming of the son of man from the east because....this is the fake christ coming pretending to be Christ. I believe we are being told that the "son of man," coming as lightning from the east....is none other than Satan! Satan transformed as the son of man, an angel of light...lightning from the east.



2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.​


That's why this so-called son of man is sandwiched in-between warnings of liars and the mention of the carcase and vultures. This pretend son of man comes from the east, the direction God warns us to watch, and with him...."wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles (vultures) be gathered together."



carcase ~ a fall, downfall, metaph. a failure, defeat, calamity, an error, lapse into sin, that which has fallen, the fallen body of one dead or slain, a corpse, a carcase


As we are the Body of Christ...the spiritually living body, the body of Satan is a carcase - spiritually dead and Satan's vultures hover around them.


.
 

skyangel

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In study today I was searching for an answer to a problem but was given an answer to a verse that I didn't realize needed an answer...until my eyes were opened. Christ warned His disciples about the tribulation of end times.....



Matthew 24:24-28 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth: behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles (vultures) be gathered together.


24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​


The passage shows Christ warning us about the liars, then about lightning from the east, then telling us about the carcase and eagles (properly translated - vultures). After all of that He says..."immediately after the tribulation of those days!!!" I believe all of that was about the tribulation and includes the coming of the son of man from the east because....this is the fake christ coming pretending to be Christ. I believe we are being told that the "son of man," coming as lightning from the east....is none other than Satan! Satan transformed as the son of man, an angel of light...lightning from the east.



2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.​


That's why this so-called son of man is sandwiched in-between warnings of liars and the mention of the carcase and vultures. This pretend son of man comes from the east, the direction God warns us to watch, and with him...."wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles (vultures) be gathered together."



carcase ~ a fall, downfall, metaph. a failure, defeat, calamity, an error, lapse into sin, that which has fallen, the fallen body of one dead or slain, a corpse, a carcase


As we are the Body of Christ...the spiritually living body, the body of Satan is a carcase - spiritually dead and Satan's vultures hover around them.


.

How can the Son of man be the false Christ when the false prophets and false teachers are already preaching a false Christ and Jesus is warning people NOT to take any notice of them? Look at the scripture. The false Christs arise before the Son of man comes like lightning from the east. Therefore the Son of man is not the false Christ since the false Christs are already on this earth today.

Matthew 24:24-28 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth: behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever
the carcase is, there will the eagles (vultures) be gathered together.


The eagles are the children of God.

Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew [their] strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; [and] they shall walk, and not faint

Deut 32:11-12 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: [So] the LORD alone did lead him, and [there was] no strange god with him.

The Lord is the eagle in scripture. The young eagles are the offspring of the eagle.

The tribulation that Jesus spoke about was His own tribulation during his own last days on earth which led to His death and His carcase.

The Son of man is Jesus Himself. He refers to Himself as the Son of man many times. Matt 9:6, Matt 11:19, Matt 12:8, Matt 12:40, Matt 13:37, Mat 13:41, Matt 17:22,


Matt 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost

Matt 16:13, When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?


Whirlwind is suggesting that the Son of man is satan..
Jesus clearly called Himself the Son of man in Matt 16:13.
To suggest that the Son of man is the fake Christ is sheer foolishness. Repent of your foolishness.
 

whirlwind

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How can the Son of man be the false Christ when the false prophets and false teachers are already preaching a false Christ and Jesus is warning people NOT to take any notice of them? Look at the scripture. The false Christs arise before the Son of man comes like lightning from the east. Therefore the Son of man is not the false Christ since the false Christs are already on this earth today.


There are many antichrists and they've been here for a long, long time....

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

They preach deception and the thrust of that deception is the time of the end. They tell us Christ is coming to save us...to fly us away before the great tribulation. The great tribulation IS when that deception is as it has never been.....

Matthew 24:21-22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.​

Satan comes first...pretending to be Christ. He is the "son of man" coming as lightning. He is the fake, the anti christ...the instead of christ.


Matthew 24:24-28 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth: behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever
the carcase is, there will the eagles (vultures) be gathered together.


The eagles are the children of God.


Eagles was mistranslated in the above verse. It is instead....VULTURES! Vultures gather around dead bodies.


Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew [their] strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; [and] they shall walk, and not faint

Deut 32:11-12 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: [So] the LORD alone did lead him, and [there was] no strange god with him.

The Lord is the eagle in scripture. The young eagles are the offspring of the eagle.

The tribulation that Jesus spoke about was His own tribulation during his own last days on earth which led to His death and His carcase.


His carcase? The carcase of the Lord? :eek: There IS NO CARCASE of the Lord!

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in hell, neither His flesh did see corruption.



The Son of man is Jesus Himself. He refers to Himself as the Son of man many times. Matt 9:6, Matt 11:19, Matt 12:8, Matt 12:40, Matt 13:37, Mat 13:41, Matt 17:22,


Matt 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost

Matt 16:13, When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?


Yes....He is the only begotten Son of Man and Son of God. We too are given power to become sons of man and sons of God.


John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:​

The "son of man" mentioned as coming as lightning isn't the True Savior.


Whirlwind is suggesting that the Son of man is satan..
Jesus clearly called Himself the Son of man in Matt 16:13.
To suggest that the Son of man is the fake Christ is sheer foolishness. Repent of your foolishness.


Jesus is The Son of man. Jesus is not the son of man mentioned in the verse in question for the true Son of Man arrives "immediately after the tribulation of those days." The days in which the fake comes as lightning. Before that event Jesus dwells in us....changing us, perfecting us, preparing us with His Spirit. After that time we see the sign of the True Savior.....

Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​


That is when the seventh and final trumpet sounds. I believe we are that "sign of the Son of man in heaven." Christ in us, in the clouds of heaven....In His saints.


.
 

skyangel

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They preach deception and the thrust of that deception is the time of the end. They tell us Christ is coming to save us...to fly us away before the great tribulation. The great tribulation IS when that deception is as it has never been.....

Matthew 24:21-22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.​

Satan comes first...pretending to be Christ. He is the "son of man" coming as lightning. He is the fake, the anti christ...the instead of christ.

Are you suggesting the Christ spoken of in the bible is the false Christ and the real one is yet to come? Or are you sugesting some false Christ is coming in the future out of some literal clouds and the real one will follow him later? Or are you suggesting the real Christ is here now and the false one will come later? Do you think Christ is on earth at all in the flesh today ?

Matthew 24:21-22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

What does the scripture mean when it says great tribulation was not from the beginning nor ever shall be? Jesus said it never was before this time.. It did not happen before His time and will never happen after His time. The great tribulation was the tribulation of HIS time on earth. Jesus was tortured more than any other man ever has been and ever will be tortured, abused and falsely accused and rejected etc. He was talking about his very own tribulation and death and crucifixion when He got the place on the cross where He felt that even the Father had forsaken Him.

Do you think you will ever come to the place in your life when you will experience physical torture from physical people and spiritually experience the Father Himself forsaking you ?

Please let me know what tribulation can be worse than the one Jesus experienced, if you can conjure one up in your carnal mind?
 

Paul

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... He was talking about his very own tribulation and death and crucifixion when He got the place on the cross where He felt that even the Father had forsaken Him.

Do you think you will ever come to the place in your life when you will experience physical torture from physical people and spiritually experience the Father Himself forsaking you ?

...

God the Father did not forsake Christ on the cross! If you think He did you make Him a liar.
 

skyangel

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Eagles was mistranslated in the above verse. It is instead....VULTURES! Vultures gather around dead bodies.

His carcase? The carcase of the Lord? :eek: There IS NO CARCASE of the Lord!

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in hell, neither His flesh did see corruption.



Jesus was dead for three days and three nights before He rose from the dead. His body or carcase was and is and always will be drawing ALL men ( vultures? and/or eagles ?) to it.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

The word eagles has not been mistranslated at all except in the minds of carnal minded people. The dead body of the Lord was raised up and so are the eagles raised up to be with and in that body. They RISE UP on wings as eagles. Where He IS so are the eagles.

I am IN Him and He is IN Me. I am crucified with Christ yet I live.

If you wish to see the eagles as vultures instead, Who were the vultures which destroyed and tore apart the body ( flesh ) of Christ and nailed the carcase ( body of flesh ) to the cross while it was still alive? Who was gathered around that body? "Eagles" or "vultures" or both types of men?

I AM the carcase of the Lord. I AM dead and my life is hid with Christ IN God.

The body of Christ on earth is dead, yet they live at the same time.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew [their] strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; [and] they shall walk, and not faint.

nesher= eagle, vulture, griffon-vulture

Is Isaiah 40:31 also mistranslated? Do those who wait on the Lord mount up with wings as vultures?
 

skyangel

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Yes....He is the only begotten Son of Man and Son of God. We too are given power to become sons of man and sons of God.

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:​
The "son of man" mentioned as coming as lightning isn't the True Savior.

Please show me a scripture which says we are given power to become sons of man.? The scripture you quoted only says we are given power to become sons of God.
Please show me any scripture which says Jesus is the only begotten son of man. ?

Are you suggesting that some physical "son of man" will literally and physically come floating out of some literal clouds at some unknown future time and pretend to be the physical Christ on earth?

If you really believe that, how does that idea or concept apply to the past present and future for all generations as the Word of God which is the TRUTH always does?
Show me where in scripture that physical and literal "son of man" ever came out of the sky or the physical clouds?

Jesus is The Son of man. Jesus is not the son of man mentioned in the verse in question for the true Son of Man arrives "immediately after the tribulation of those days." The days in which the fake comes as lightning. Before that event Jesus dwells in us....changing us, perfecting us, preparing us with His Spirit. After that time we see the sign of the True Savior.....

Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​
That is when the seventh and final trumpet sounds. I believe we are that "sign of the Son of man in heaven." Christ in us, in the clouds of heaven....In His saints.
.

Then why have you not heard the seventh trumpet sound yet? Are you deaf or what?

I am IN Him and He is in me. The seventh trumpet is Jesus. I hear His sound/ voice daily saying it is finished. It is done.
He says to me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
I am very thirsty and drink from that fountain of Life freely daily.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

God rules and reigns over all the kingdoms of the world , Yesterday today and forever. He is Lord of ALL.

Ex 15:18 The LORD shall reign for ever and ever.


Is He reigning in your heart or are you waiting for some future tribulation and some future Christ to come before you follow Him and are perfect as the Father is perfect?

God the Father did not forsake Christ on the cross! If you think He did you make Him a liar.

Matt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


Are you calling Jesus a liar?

If the Father did not forsake Jesus then why did Jesus say " My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Who did God forsake on the cross if He did not forsake Jesus?
 

Paul

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...


Matt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


Are you calling Jesus a liar?

If the Father did not forsake Jesus then why did Jesus say " My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Who did God forsake on the cross if He did not forsake Jesus?

No, you are calling GOD a liar. Has He not said He would never leave us or forsake us?

Deu 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

But still You claim He Forsook Christ.

Read Psalm 22:
Psa 22:1 To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Do you recognize these words? Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani. Christ was quoting this Psalm while He was on the cross. He taught it right to the end. Read those words in Hebrew.

Psa 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
Psa 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Psa 22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
Psa 22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
Psa 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
Psa 22:8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
Psa 22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
Psa 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Psa 22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
Psa 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
Psa 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
Psa 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Psa 22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
Psa 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
Psa 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Psa 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
Psa 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
Psa 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
Psa 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
Psa 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
Psa 22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
Psa 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
Psa 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
Psa 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

“that he hath done this” can also be translated “It is finished!”[/i]

No, God did not forsake His Son!
 

skyangel

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No, God did not forsake His Son!


I still ask you
Why did Jesus say " My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me" If the Father did not forsake Jesus at all?

You are saying God did not forsake Him but you are not answering my question. Calling me a liar does not answer my question.
Scripture obviously implies that Jesus felt forsaken by God, when he died on the cross, does it not?

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

I understand that is a quote from Psalm 22.
However that makes no difference to the fact that Jesus still asked God the question " Why hast thou forsaken me. ?"

I understand the following scriptures say God will not leave or forsake His people.
Hebrews 13:5 ...... for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Deut 4:31 (For the LORD thy God [is] a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

How do you reconcile these scriptures so they no longer appear to contradict each other?

Let me put it another way......If God never forsook Jesus, Why did Jesus feel forsaken by Him ?
 

Paul

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I still ask you
Why did Jesus say " My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me" If the Father did not forsake Jesus at all?

...


And I answered you. Those words are part of the quote. Can't you understand that? Or do you just want to argue with everything. You might be too impressed with yourself.
 
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skyangel

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And I answered you. Those words are part of the quote. Can't you understand that? Or do you just want to argue with everything. You might be too impressed with yourself.

That answer you gave is unsatisfactory Paul.

Are you suggesting Jesus was merely quoting a psalm for the sake of quoting a psalm while he was dying on the cross and he did not mean what he said? He was not really forsaken but only thought He was and was asking God an irrelevant question? Surely you have a better explanation than that?

If I was a baby Christian and wanted to know the answer to why those scriptures appear to contradict each other and why Jesus felt forsaken when the bible says God won't forsake His people, I would obviously not get any satisfactory or logical answer from you.

It appears that Jesus felt forsaken by God. Did He feel forsaken by God or not in your opinion? IF He did then WHY ?
 

whirlwind

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Are you suggesting the Christ spoken of in the bible is the false Christ and the real one is yet to come? Or are you sugesting some false Christ is coming in the future out of some literal clouds and the real one will follow him later? Or are you suggesting the real Christ is here now and the false one will come later? Do you think Christ is on earth at all in the flesh today ?


I was very clear in what I wrote...do ye not see?



Matthew 24:21-22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

What does the scripture mean when it says great tribulation was not from the beginning nor ever shall be? Jesus said it never was before this time.. It did not happen before His time and will never happen after His time. The great tribulation was the tribulation of HIS time on earth. Jesus was tortured more than any other man ever has been and ever will be tortured, abused and falsely accused and rejected etc. He was talking about his very own tribulation and death and crucifixion when He got the place on the cross where He felt that even the Father had forsaken Him.


Please reread the verse and do so in context of the entire passage. He is teaching His disciples and us about what will happen in the end of days. That is when "for THEN SHALL BE great tribulation....and except THOSE DAYS should be shortened." This was not about His crucifixion. And our Father DID NOT FORSAKE HIM! :angry:



Do you think you will ever come to the place in your life when you will experience physical torture from physical people and spiritually experience the Father Himself forsaking you ?

Please let me know what tribulation can be worse than the one Jesus experienced, if you can conjure one up in your carnal mind?


He will never forsake me nor did He forsake His Son.
 

whirlwind

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Jesus was dead for three days and three nights before He rose from the dead. His body or carcase was and is and always will be drawing ALL men ( vultures? and/or eagles ?) to it.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.


:lol: The stuff you come up with. He is not a carcase. His being lifted and drawing all men has NOTHING TO DO with this.


The word eagles has not been mistranslated at all except in the minds of carnal minded people. The dead body of the Lord was raised up and so are the eagles raised up to be with and in that body. They RISE UP on wings as eagles. Where He IS so are the eagles.

I am IN Him and He is IN Me. I am crucified with Christ yet I live.

If you wish to see the eagles as vultures instead, Who were the vultures which destroyed and tore apart the body ( flesh ) of Christ and nailed the carcase ( body of flesh ) to the cross while it was still alive? Who was gathered around that body? "Eagles" or "vultures" or both types of men?

I AM the carcase of the Lord. I AM dead and my life is hid with Christ IN God.


Then I would suggest that you are not truly "in Him and He in you," for we live in Him and He in us. We are not a dead body but a living body. We die to self...ego, pride, etc. and then we LIVE.


The body of Christ on earth is dead, yet they live at the same time.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.


No....His body is not dead. We live because we die to self. The body that is dead belongs to Satan...the spiritually dead carcase!

Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew [their] strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; [and] they shall walk, and not faint.

nesher= eagle, vulture, griffon-vulture

Is Isaiah 40:31 also mistranslated? Do those who wait on the Lord mount up with wings as vultures?
What do you think? Are you able to discern the difference? :)


.
 

whirlwind

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Please show me a scripture which says we are given power to become sons of man.? The scripture you quoted only says we are given power to become sons of God.


Quite true. The scripture quoted tells us He gives us power to become "sons of God," not power to become a son of man.

Please show me any scripture which says Jesus is the only begotten son of man. ?


John 1:14,18 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (18) No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.​


We know He is the Son of God and we know He is the Son of Man and we're told He is "the only begotten Son," so when we put (2 + 2) together we get....the only begotten Son of God and Son of Man.


Are you suggesting that some physical "son of man" will literally and physically come floating out of some literal clouds at some unknown future time and pretend to be the physical Christ on earth?

If you really believe that, how does that idea or concept apply to the past present and future for all generations as the Word of God which is the TRUTH always does?
Show me where in scripture that physical and literal "son of man" ever came out of the sky or the physical clouds?


The son of man coming as lightning is Satan coming as Christ...pretending to be our Savior.

The Son of Man that comes in the clouds of heaven....arrives in us for we are His great cloud of witnesses.


Then why have you not heard the seventh trumpet sound yet? Are you deaf or what?


It has yet to sound. When it does this age ends.


I am IN Him and He is in me. The seventh trumpet is Jesus. I hear His sound/ voice daily saying it is finished. It is done.
He says to me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
I am very thirsty and drink from that fountain of Life freely daily.


I explained before and will again say....when He said, "It is finished," He was speaking about His reason for coming in flesh. He accomplished His goal and through Him we are saved. The seventh trumpet has not sounded. I am happy you hear Him daily but you are mistaken on the timing.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

God rules and reigns over all the kingdoms of the world , Yesterday today and forever. He is Lord of ALL.

Ex 15:18 The LORD shall reign for ever and ever.


Is He reigning in your heart or are you waiting for some future tribulation and some future Christ to come before you follow Him and are perfect as the Father is perfect?


Seventh trumpet, seventh angel.....all future yet.

Hebrews 10:12-14 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool. For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.​


Are His enemies His footstool yet or are we, His "sanctified ones," still fighting the battle? What is our purpose?


Matt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


Are you calling Jesus a liar?

If the Father did not forsake Jesus then why did Jesus say " My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Who did God forsake on the cross if He did not forsake Jesus?

He was quoting from Psalms....teaching even as He hung on the cross. It foretold of His crucifixion. Our Father does not forsake Him nor us.....

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for He hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

That answer you gave is unsatisfactory Paul.

Are you suggesting Jesus was merely quoting a psalm for the sake of quoting a psalm while he was dying on the cross and he did not mean what he said? He was not really forsaken but only thought He was and was asking God an irrelevant question? Surely you have a better explanation than that?

If I was a baby Christian and wanted to know the answer to why those scriptures appear to contradict each other and why Jesus felt forsaken when the bible says God won't forsake His people, I would obviously not get any satisfactory or logical answer from you.

It appears that Jesus felt forsaken by God. Did He feel forsaken by God or not in your opinion? IF He did then WHY ?


Paul answered correctly. Jesus did not feel forsaken. He quoted the psalm to show that His death was prophesied a thousand years before the event.
 

skyangel

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I was very clear in what I wrote...do ye not see?
I see confusion and self contradiction in what you write. It most likely appears clear enough to you but it does not come across very clearly to others.
On one hand, you seem to believe you are in the last days yet on the other hand you are also waiting for the last days to arrive. ?
Are you waiting for a "second coming" of the Real Jesus Christ or not ?




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Please reread the verse and do so in context of the entire passage. He is teaching His disciples and us about what will happen in the end of days. That is when "for THEN SHALL BE great tribulation....and except THOSE DAYS should be shortened." This was not about His crucifixion. And our Father DID NOT FORSAKE HIM! :angry:

I agree He was telling his disciples at the time about what would happen and he also told them that some of them would still be alive when it did happen.

Matt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.


Do you agree with that? If so, it has already happened in the past, has it not? Some of Jesus disciples saw the Son of man coming in His kingdom, did they not? If not , was Jesus telling lies when He said ..".some standing here, .... shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."


I understand the Father did not forsake Him but that does not change the fact that he FELT forsaken does it? Do you ever feel forsaken by God? Have you ever felt forsaken by God? If not, you will one day because Jesus did so if you wish to know what Jesus knew and go through what Jesus went through and feel what He felt then you will also feel forsaken by God in spite of the fact that He never forsakes His children. He still rejects those who disobey Him. and will say "I never knew you" to many who call Him Lord. (Matt 7:23)

Do you think the people who hear those words " I never knew you " will feel forsaken by God or not? Does God forsake them ?
 

skyangel

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:lol: The stuff you come up with. He is not a carcase. His being lifted and drawing all men has NOTHING TO DO with this.

I understand that some things I say seem strange to you and appear to be disconnected to the carnal mind but they do connect in the Spirit where all things are connected.
Jesus body on earth is a carcase in one sense and not in another sense. It all depends on the point of view you chose to adopt but if you adopt all points of view, you end up seeing things like the Father sees them from all sides.
Don't reject something just because you cannot understand how it fits together. Ask the Lord to show you how it fits because I know it does fit..


Then I would suggest that you are not truly "in Him and He in you," for we live in Him and He in us. We are not a dead body but a living body. We die to self...ego, pride, etc. and then we LIVE.
To die to self and ego etc and to live in Him is to live and die at the same time, is it not?
That is what it means...... I die daily. I am dead and my life is hid with Christ in God. I am crucified with Christ , yet I live, but its no longer I that lives but Christ that lives in me. I am not my own, I am bought with a price. I am the "walking dead."

No....His body is not dead. We live because we die to self. The body that is dead belongs to Satan...the spiritually dead carcase!

We are the body of Christ. The body of Christ is dead to sin not dead in sin.
If it is not dead to sin, it needs to be crucified with Christ. before the Spiritual body is raised up to walk in newness of LIFE.

The outward body is the same physical body. The Spiritual man ( mind of Christ ) within that physical body overcomes the carnal man ( carnal mind) in the same physical body.
The Spirit of God overcomes the devil in the same body and gets rid of the devil and the sins of the devil out of the body.

The physical body will still pass away and die but that is no excuse for walking in the carnal minded flesh while we are in this physical body. We can still walk in the Spirit while inside a physical body in the same way Jesus does. All we need to do is watch and listen to the Lord and do and say the same as He does in the same way He said and did what the Father did and said. However that tends to offend any hypocrites who dont like it when the WORD tells them their hearts are deceitful and desperately wicked. They can't handle it unless the scripture is quoted with relevant chapter numbers and verse numbers and made to sound like it does not apply to them but to someone else.



What do you think? Are you able to discern the difference? :)

Yes and No.
My carnal mind and flesh cannot discern anything.
The Spirit within me can discern all things.
I am the light of the world.
 

skyangel

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Quite true. The scripture quoted tells us He gives us power to become "sons of God," not power to become a son of man.
John 1:14,18 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (18) No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.​
We know He is the Son of God and we know He is the Son of Man and we're told He is "the only begotten Son," so when we put (2 + 2) together we get....the only begotten Son of God and Son of Man.
Your math is wrong.
the only begotten of the Father refers to the son of God
the only begotten Son also refers to the Son of God.
No place in that scripture does it say or imply that Jesus was the only begotten son of man.

Then only way Jesus was ever the Son of man is because He was born of a woman and His physical body was the body of a man. His flesh was always God because the word "flesh" is referring to the WORD not to the physical body.
Jesus flesh was always spiritual flesh not carnal flesh.


The son of man coming as lightning is Satan coming as Christ...pretending to be our Savior.

The Son of Man that comes in the clouds of heaven....arrives in us for we are His great cloud of witnesses.

The false Christ is already in the world pretending to be the saviour of those who follow him. Are you saying the false christ will come again as lighting?

I agree that those who are in the Real Christ are His cloud of witnesses.
Those who are in the false christ are also his cloud of witnesses.

The same principle applies to both the false and the Real Christ and their witnesses.

Please read my study on the lightning and let me know what you think of that.



whirlwind said:
It has yet to sound. When it does this age ends.

I explained before and will again say....when He said, "It is finished," He was speaking about His reason for coming in flesh. He accomplished His goal and through Him we are saved. The seventh trumpet has not sounded. I am happy you hear Him daily but you are mistaken on the timing.

Gods timing always WAS and IS and IS TO COME for all eternity so I am not mistaken at all since I can see and hear all things from His point of view in the realm where time is no more.
Eternity is EVER PRESENT. The kingdom of God is within you at all times past present and future. There is no time in eternity. Time is irrelevant in the realm where the beginning and the end are the same.

Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

You will understand that once you are in Him where He is in His realm of eternity.


Are His enemies His footstool yet or are we, His "sanctified ones," still fighting the battle? What is our purpose?
All His enemies are already His footstool. Isaiah 66:1, Matt 5:35, Acts 7:49, The earth is His footstool.
Those who are still fighting the battle are only fighting a battle in their own hearts and minds.
Those who have overcome the battle of the carnal mind vs the spiritual mind of Christ within have the perfect peace of God within them and nothing can hurt or offend them since they are dead to the carnal mind but alive to the Spirit of God who has overcome sin and the devil for all eternity.


He was quoting from Psalms....teaching even as He hung on the cross. It foretold of His crucifixion. Our Father does not forsake Him nor us.....

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for He hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.


Paul answered correctly. Jesus did not feel forsaken. He quoted the psalm to show that His death was prophesied a thousand years before the event.

You both obviously think Jesus did not feel forsaken but if He did not feel forsaken, He would have had no reason to be quoting any scripture which asks God why He had forsaken him. If you do not feel forsaken by anyone, would you ask them why they had forsaken you ? Of course not. That would be sheer stupidity would it not?

Jesus felt forsaken as did David when he wrote the scripture in psalms which was prophetic of Jesus feelings on the cross but I am sure David did not know that it was prophetic at the time He wrote it. David was feeling the same as Jesus felt but I know you will not fully understand that till the day you also experience it.

The answer to the question about why Jesus felt forsaken is because the Father will always forsake sin and Jesus was made sin on the cross. That is why He felt forsaken and even felt rejected by the Father.

The Father wants us to forsake sin in the same way He forsakes sin instead of holding on to it so grace may abound..

2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus became all that is evil on the cross, in order to kill all that is evil. He overcame death through death. God cannot look on evil so Jesus felt forsaken by the Father who will always turn his back on evil and evildoers.

Habakkuk 1:13 [Thou art] of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, [and] holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth [the man that is] more righteous than he?

The Father cannot and does not look at sin. He turns His back on sin and sinners and forsakes sin and sinners. That is why Jesus makes intercession for us. Rom 8: 26-27, Heb 7:25
It is because we cannot pray for ourselves as sinners. God does not listen to sinners. Psalm 66:18, Proverbs 15:29 Proverbs 28:9

May the Lord open your eyes and ears to the Truth and give you understanding.

Don't be among those who hear the words " I never knew you " when it is too late to do something about it. (Matt 7:23.)

Prov 16: 6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil.

2 Tim 2: 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
 

whirlwind

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I see confusion and self contradiction in what you write. It most likely appears clear enough to you but it does not come across very clearly to others.
On one hand, you seem to believe you are in the last days yet on the other hand you are also waiting for the last days to arrive. ?
Are you waiting for a "second coming" of the Real Jesus Christ or not ?


We, I believe, are in the last days but as we don't know the day or hour I cannot proclaim it as such. I await the last day of the last days...whenever that may be. :) Jesus dwells in us so His coming happens over time. But, at the end of the time, on the last day the world will not only see the "sign of the Son of man" which is His elect, but will see.....

Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​




I agree He was telling his disciples at the time about what would happen and he also told them that some of them would still be alive when it did happen.

Matt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.


Do you agree with that? If so, it has already happened in the past, has it not? Some of Jesus disciples saw the Son of man coming in His kingdom, did they not? If not , was Jesus telling lies when He said ..".some standing here, .... shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."


He sent the Holy Spirit and the Spirit indwelt "some standing here." They were of the "kingdom of God," before their physical death.


I understand the Father did not forsake Him but that does not change the fact that he FELT forsaken does it? Do you ever feel forsaken by God? Have you ever felt forsaken by God? If not, you will one day because Jesus did so if you wish to know what Jesus knew and go through what Jesus went through and feel what He felt then you will also feel forsaken by God in spite of the fact that He never forsakes His children. He still rejects those who disobey Him. and will say "I never knew you" to many who call Him Lord. (Matt 7:23)


He came for the purpose He was accomplishing. He was God and could not forsake Himself.


Do you think the people who hear those words " I never knew you " will feel forsaken by God or not? Does God forsake them ?


They first left Him. He will never forsake us but we can turn our backs to Him to worship another...when doing that, even unknowingly, then we have forsaken Him.
 

Paul

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I see confusion and self contradiction in what you write. It most likely appears clear enough to you but it does not come across very clearly to others.
...

Whirlwinds posts are clear to me, I have more trouble with some of yours, sky.
 

JarBreaker

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Or do you just want to argue with everything.

That's about all I see.

You might be too impressed with yourself.

whoa

The great tribulation was the tribulation of HIS time on earth.


Ok, I can stop bothering trying to make sense of any of this now.

Move along, nothing more to see.

That answer you gave is unsatisfactory Paul.

Are you suggesting Jesus was merely quoting a psalm for the sake of quoting a psalm while he was dying on the cross and he did not mean what he said? He was not really forsaken but only thought He was and was asking God an irrelevant question? Surely you have a better explanation than that?

If I was a baby Christian and wanted to know the answer to why those scriptures appear to contradict each other and why Jesus felt forsaken when the bible says God won't forsake His people, I would obviously not get any satisfactory or logical answer from you.

It appears that Jesus felt forsaken by God. Did He feel forsaken by God or not in your opinion? IF He did then WHY ?


/FURIOUSLY mashing my imaginary downvote button
 
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