What Is A Soul?

skyangel · Jul 25, 2010

The word soul in Hebrew is nephesh which is also translated as mind, person, heart, creature, body, himself, yourself, will, desire, appetite.

The word soul in Greek is psychē which is also translated as mind, heart, life.

We get our English words psychiatry, psychiatric, psychiatrist from the word psyche. It has to do with the mind heart and emotions of people. This is not a separate part of a person than the spirit and body but is a combination or a unity of the spirit and body.

Some religions teach about a "soul sleep" There is no such term as "soul sleep" in the bible. That is a man made false doctrine which is not taught in the bible at all when you study the word death in the bible and understand what it means both spiritually as well as physically.

What the bible refers to as "sleep" or "rest" is actually death in a physical sense and a state of spiritual unawareness in a spiritual sense. ( Luke 8:52-53, John11:11-14 ) Jesus used the terms dead and asleep interchangeably.

To understand what a soul really is, we can find a description of what a soul is made of and how it is made in Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Now read it carefully and study this. God formed man from dust. Stop there and you have a lump of dust or clay which has some form.
That clay body is lying lifeless on the ground. It began from dust and returns to dust. ( Ecc 12:7 )
That lifeless dust had no Spirit in it till God BREATHED a Spirit into the body of clay. and man became a living soul as opposed to a dead body.

DUST ( body ) + BREATH ( the Spirit of God ) = SOUL. ( A living thinking mortal )

When the Spirit is separated from the body, the soul is destroyed. It no longer exists because a soul is a combination of the body and Spirit or a unity of the flesh and the spirit which makes the flesh come alive. The soul is not something separate from a spirit or a body. It is a combination of the two as you can see from the "recipe" of a soul in Gen2:7.
The Body and the Spirit can be separate but when they are, the body is dead, lifeless, is not a soul at all. Therefore "soul sleep" is an imaginary fictional construct of the deceived carnal mind of man.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

There is the body which returns to dust and there is the Spirit which returns to God. There is no soul that goes any place or sleeps anywhere because it simply disappears and is no more when the Spirit leaves the body.

As a visual example,
Imagine you have two ingredients.... flour and water. They are two completely different things alone. Mix them together and you get a dough. You do not end up with flour, water and dough. You end up with dough which is made of water and flour. If you begin with the dough ( soul ) and then separate the dough ( soul ) from the water ( Spirit ), you do not end up with flour ( body ) water (Spirit ) and dough (soul ) but the dough ( soul ) disappears completely and is no longer dough but goes back to where it started as flour ( dust) and water ( Spirit )

The word soul is referring to the flesh of man ( body ) in a literal as well as a spiritual sense.
The Spirit is referring to the Spirit of God ( breath ) which is the LIFE of God inside the body of flesh or the literal air that we breathe which enables us to think and move and do as the Father tells us to do.

When you read the word soul in the bible, do not think of something that is separate from the spirit but rather think of a combination of flesh and spirit. A soul does not exist without flesh or without spirit. A soul IS a mortal living being not something separate from a mortal living being.

The only scripture in the bible which refers to body soul and spirit is..... 1 Thess 5: 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Many religions tend to teach and imply by using that scripture, that the body is made up of three parts and is an example of a "trinity" concept but it is not.
What Paul is saying or praying is that the Spirit and the body be preserved together as a soul and the Spirit will be preserved together with the body to complete a blameless soul.

The little word "and" between body, soul, spirit, in 1 Thess 5:23, is the word "kai" in Greek which is a correlative conjuction which coordinates things and brings them together as a parallelism rather than separating them as two or three different things. They are merely different words describing the same thing which is the soul. It is like saying Father and God and Creator. These three words are not referring to three different gods or three "persons" or even three parts of one being but are merely different words describing the very same being or same Spirit.

fivesense · Jul 25, 2010

Skyangel, well done. You gladden my heart with this post. Not many Christians believe that the soul does not exist without a body, and a spirit to animate it. Moreover, the lie of "Thou shall not die, but be as God, knowing good and evil" persists as proof of unbelief within the ranks. There is no soul-life beyond the grave mentioned anywhere in Scripture. No one "goes to heaven to be with the Lord," or resurrection is a farce and a false hope.

But, on the other hand, your mention of the soul being destroyed,"when the S(sic)pirit is separated from the body", is not substantiated in the Record. It is a "return to" the place it came from. Nothing is destroyed in God's ecomomy, or else God Himself would not exist, because, as you know, all things are out of God, and for Him, and to Him. Nothing is going to be "destroyed". In fact, Paul clearly says that it is the mission of the Son to reconcile ALL things unto the Father and ultimately become subjected to God's will once more, all authority and power being given into His hands at present.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 1C 15:25-28

Once more, thank you for the concise and short summary of the soul of man. It is refreshing to see strict adherence to the word of God and the fruit that it bears.

fivesense

Paul · Jul 25, 2010

It depends on your interpretation of “in our image, after our likeness,” I would dare say mine is different from yours.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

skyangel · Jul 25, 2010

fivesense said:
Skyangel, well done. You gladden my heart with this post. Not many Christians believe that the soul does not exist without a body, and a spirit to animate it. Moreover, the lie of "Thou shall not die, but be as God, knowing good and evil" persists as proof of unbelief within the ranks. There is no soul-life beyond the grave mentioned anywhere in Scripture. No one "goes to heaven to be with the Lord," or resurrection is a farce and a false hope.

But, on the other hand, your mention of the soul being destroyed,"when the S(sic)pirit is separated from the body", is not substantiated in the Record. It is a "return to" the place it came from. Nothing is destroyed in God's ecomomy, or else God Himself would not exist, because, as you know, all things are out of God, and for Him, and to Him. Nothing is going to be "destroyed". In fact, Paul clearly says that it is the mission of the Son to reconcile ALL things unto the Father and ultimately become subjected to God's will once more, all authority and power being given into His hands at present.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 1C 15:25-28

Once more, thank you for the concise and short summary of the soul of man. It is refreshing to see strict adherence to the word of God and the fruit that it bears.

fivesense

I understand what you are saying about the soul not being destroyed but rather being a "return" to God. It is not a destruction in the way we perceive destruction as an act of demolition or ruin but it is more a destruction in the sense of "a bringing to naught" and making something disappear in the process of a separation of the soul or division of the soul which changes the soul back to Spirit and body as separate things.

It is interesting that you would use the scripture about the enemy which is death being destroyed in the same post as you are saying nothing is destroyed in Gods economy.
How do you perceive the "destruction" of death ? In what way do you interpret the word "destroyed" in that sense?

Paul said:
It depends on your interpretation of “in our image, after our likeness,” I would dare say mine is different from yours.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Does a persons perception of God change God in any way ? I presume when you say your perception of God is different to mine that you are referring to my mention of the "trinity concept" in the OP ?

Would you like to explain your concept and interpretion of the words " in our image, after our likeness " ?

Paul · Jul 25, 2010

skyangel said:
...
Does a persons perception of God change God in any way ? I presume when you say your perception of God is different to mine that you are referring to my mention of the "trinity concept" in the OP ?

Would you like to explain your concept and interpretion of the words " in our image, after our likeness " ?

Not even close. I am talking about our being created in His "image and likeness."

skyangel · Jul 25, 2010

Paul said:
Not even close. I am talking about our being created in His "image and likeness."

Would you like to explain your perception of that image and likeness and how it relates to the soul?

brionne · Jul 25, 2010

fivesense said:
But, on the other hand, your mention of the soul being destroyed,"when the S(sic)pirit is separated from the body", is not substantiated in the Record. It is a "return to" the place it came from. Nothing is destroyed in God's ecomomy, or else God Himself would not exist, because, as you know, all things are out of God, and for Him, and to Him. Nothing is going to be "destroyed". In fact, Paul clearly says that it is the mission of the Son to reconcile ALL things unto the Father and ultimately become subjected to God's will once more, all authority and power being given into His hands at present.

fivesense

If the spirit is the 'lifeforce' within living creatures, then the same spirit can in fact die becaues the living creatures that have it can die.

the greek word for spirit comes from pneu′ma and has the meaning of “breath” and its because of that breath from God that the body can become a living body.

If our breath ceases because we have died then the spirit/breath becomes as dead. The bible says the spirit returns to God at Eccl 12:7 "Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the [true] God who gave it"

The reason being is that the spirit/breath within us is a lifeforce. That lifeforce belongs to God which is why it can be said that the spirit returns to God. Psalm 104:29, 30 says: “If you conceal your face, they get disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they expire, and back to their dust they go. If you send forth YOUR spirit, they are created.”

So our spirit could be explained as Gods power within us. And when we die, then that power returns to God. I know many christians believe that the spirit that returns to God is alive and continues to exist, but its certainly not our individual consciousness that continues to exist because in Psalm 146:3-4 it tells us that the our thoughts perish....our mind and knowledge and consciousness are not our spirit.
" Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.
4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish"

so biblically, both spirit and soul of an individual do perish...the thing that does not perish is Gods ability to reignite us to live again by making us a new body and putting his spirit back into that body so that it comes to life.

fivesense · Jul 25, 2010

Pegg said:
If the spirit is the 'lifeforce' within living creatures, then the same spirit can in fact die becaues the living creatures that have it can die.

the greek word for spirit comes from pneu′ma and has the meaning of “breath” and its because of that breath from God that the body can become a living body.

If our breath ceases because we have died then the spirit/breath becomes as dead. The bible says the spirit returns to God at Eccl 12:7 "Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the [true] God who gave it"

The reason being is that the spirit/breath within us is a lifeforce. That lifeforce belongs to God which is why it can be said that the spirit returns to God. Psalm 104:29, 30 says: “If you conceal your face, they get disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they expire, and back to their dust they go. If you send forth YOUR spirit, they are created.”

So our spirit could be explained as Gods power within us. And when we die, then that power returns to God. I know many christians believe that the spirit that returns to God is alive and continues to exist, but its certainly not our individual consciousness that continues to exist because in Psalm 146:3-4 it tells us that the our thoughts perish....our mind and knowledge and consciousness are not our spirit.
" Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.
4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish"

so biblically, both spirit and soul of an individual do perish...the thing that does not perish is Gods ability to reignite us to live again by making us a new body and putting his spirit back into that body so that it comes to life.

Pegg, I know that you are aware that at death the spirit of a man returns to God, and the spirit of the beast goes into the earth (ruach, Eccl 3:21)

You are also, no doubt aware that God is the Father of spirits? (Heb 12:9)

All spirit is out of God and returns to Him at the time appointed by Him. God is Spirit and without His spirit providing life, all physical form dies and returns to dust.

Gn 6:3 . And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

A study of ruach and nephesh, and their differences may clear things somewhat.

The individual and the soul cease to exist at death. The spirit, which belongs to the Eternal Father, is also is eternal. But it has no personality, nor function outside of its appointed place within the body of that which is created in God's image and likeness.

At our resurrection, and all whoever lived for that matter, the body is made alive once again by the Resurrection and the Life, Christ Jesus, and the spirits are returned to the individual they came from. They are not "persons" apart from the individual.

Spirits cannot die, nor can they be destroyed, as they are out of God and are as eternal and deathless as the One Who is the Father of them.

fivesense

fivesense · Jul 25, 2010

skyangel said:
I understand what you are saying about the soul not being destroyed but rather being a "return" to God. It is not a destruction in the way we perceive destruction as an act of demolition or ruin but it is more a destruction in the sense of "a bringing to naught" and making something disappear in the process of a separation of the soul or division of the soul which changes the soul back to Spirit and body as separate things.

It is interesting that you would use the scripture about the enemy which is death being destroyed in the same post as you are saying nothing is destroyed in Gods economy.
How do you perceive the "destruction" of death ? In what way do you interpret the word "destroyed" in that sense?

That is an interesting point skyangel. I never considered it before. You are sharp.

I cannot wrap my brain around the idea of hades, or death, or sin as having an existence in and of itself. They are descriptive terms and figurative for the most part, since they have no visible image to speak of. I have been of the assumption that these items were not places or things to be reckoned as havin some kind of "existence"somewhere or someplace far away or secret.

Death is the absence of life. When all have been vivified and made alive in Christ, death will be abolished. Death will cease to exist, because the Life-Giving Spirit, Jesus Christ will have made all alive in Him.

1C 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

fivesense

brionne · Jul 25, 2010

fivesense said:
Pegg, I know that you are aware that at death the spirit of a man returns to God, and the spirit of the beast goes into the earth (ruach, Eccl 3:21)

You are also, no doubt aware that God is the Father of spirits? (Heb 12:9)

All spirit is out of God and returns to Him at the time appointed by Him. God is Spirit and without His spirit providing life, all physical form dies and returns to dust.

Gn 6:3 . And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

A study of ruach and nephesh, and their differences may clear things somewhat.

The individual and the soul cease to exist at death. The spirit, which belongs to the Eternal Father, is also is eternal. But it has no personality, nor function outside of its appointed place within the body of that which is created in God's image and likeness.

At our resurrection, and all whoever lived for that matter, the body is made alive once again by the Resurrection and the Life, Christ Jesus, and the spirits are returned to the individual they came from. They are not "persons" apart from the individual.

Spirits cannot die, nor can they be destroyed, as they are out of God and are as eternal and deathless as the One Who is the Father of them.

fivesense

im not really sure what you are implying the spirit to be. Can you explain what you think the spirit is in less then 10 words?

fivesense · Jul 25, 2010

Pegg said:
im not really sure what you are implying the spirit to be. Can you explain what you think the spirit is in less then 10 words?

Sure,
All spirits proceed out of God, the Father of spirits.
There, that's ten words, though not technically.
There's more than one. Seven proceed from the throne. Gosh, there's tons of 'em in the Scriptures. They all have one Source.
A child has only one real father. All spirits have a Father, at least the word of God says so.

Hb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Too easy for you? It probably is, because you are extremely intelligent and do not like easy answers. You are very strong-minded and ready to take on a challenge.

fivesense

brionne · Jul 26, 2010

fivesense said:
Sure,
All spirits proceed out of God, the Father of spirits.
There, that's ten words, though not technically.
There's more than one. Seven proceed from the throne. Gosh, there's tons of 'em in the Scriptures. They all have one Source.
A child has only one real father. All spirits have a Father, at least the word of God says so.

Hb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Too easy for you? It probably is, because you are extremely intelligent and do not like easy answers. You are very strong-minded and ready to take on a challenge.

fivesense

ok, so it seems you are saying that spirits exist and all spirits are from God...which i agree with for the angels are all spirit persons.

However, humans do not exist as spirits...we were made of flesh and can not be said to have existed in any form before we were created. The only way to know how it can be said that humans have 'spirit' is to go back to the original words, ru′ach & pneu′ma, and understand what they mean because humans are said to have ru'ach and pneu'ma. Both of these words mean 'breath'

Now, Breath is a part of what gives us life...its a force within us that is put there by God because, as you said, he is a God of 'spirits/breaths'
In what sense can this be so? In the same sense that when God blew into Adams nostrils the 'breath of life' or 'spirit of life'....the man came to be alive. Adam had Gods spirit within him and its what gave him life. But Adam did not have any spirit in him until God blew into him...and for as long as Adam had breath/spirit, he had life which emanated from God.

So we have to view the 'spirit' as something equivalent to 'life'.... not something that we have besides life because its not. Thats why the bible says at Eccl 12:7 "Then the dust (the body) returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit (breath/lifeforce) itself returns to the [true] God who gave it."

Think about it this way. If God gives us spirit/breath, its obviously not something we always had. We did not give 'spirit/breath' to ourselves...only God can give life to his creatures which is why it can be said that the 'spirit/breath/life' returns to the true God who gave it.

Now i hope you dont mind, but i'll show you what I mean using your own words.
You said:
"All spirits proceed out of God, the Father of spirits."
If i were to put this more literally in line with what the original words mean for spirit, it would read like this...

"All breaths proceed out of God, the Father of breaths"

And I could rightly say that because breathing is something peculiar only to physical creatures. Angels have not fleshly bodies, they have no lungs, no mouths so the biblical references i've provided are not related to spirit creatures...these verses about our spirit returning to God relate only to human life. When our lifeforce expires, it returns to God because he is the source of all lifeforces. Our breath is our lifeforce, hence that is our spirit and it can be extinguished when we die. But the power to reintroduce us to life remains with God which is the way the spirit/lifeforce/breath returns to God whom gave it.

fivesense · Jul 26, 2010

Pegg said:
ok, so it seems you are saying that spirits exist and all spirits are from God...which i agree with for the angels are all spirit persons.

...
But the power to reintroduce us to life remains with God which is the way the spirit/lifeforce/breath returns to God whom gave it.

You are correct Pegg; following out my explanation to form "all breaths proceed out of God" is valid. But that is not what I desire to convey. The problem lies in separating those invisible forces which animate physical forms from those that have been established as having being and are referenced in the Holy Writings.

The word nephesh occurs 754 times. The KJV translates it "soul" 472 times, and uses 22 different words or phrases for the rest of the occurances. It is best rendered soul for all it's occurances, and let the student determine its usage.

Ruach occurs 389 times, the KJV rendering it "spirit" 237 times, with 22 different words for the remainder. This too, should remain as "spirit, and let the student determine its usage.

The formation of Adam into a living being, animated by spirit, did not automatically include a soul existence. Adam was not formed a dead person, he was formed a living being, yet without a soul life. Many things are living, and yet are without souls. All vertabrates have souls, and all that has blood as well.

Messengers, or angels if you desire, have a created purpose and an invisible image imparted to them. All of God's vessels have form, whether physical or spirit, in order to fulfill His purposes. They remain that way till He becomes All in all, and the consummation arrives.

Perhaps, with this in mind, I may rephrase what I wrote, and put it in more accurate terms.

All spirit proceeds out of the Father of spirits, God is spirit. Note the Scriptures say He IS spirit, not " He is a spirit".

When what was sown into the soil, God's spirit into a human body in this case, grows to its full, the fruit is harvested, the essential portion being retained. The plant itself returns to the dust. So too, that which God sowed is retained in it's essense, not its form, when death occurs, to be retained til the time of resurrection. Then it is returned to the physical for judgment, or, in our case transformed in the blink of an eye.

N'shamath, or "breath" does not impart life. It contains life and is a medium for physical life. Only God's spirit can impart life. This shall never change.

fivesense

fivesense · Jul 26, 2010

Hi Pegg, this too may be meditated upon for better understanding of who and what we are. Knowing your propensity to trance-out in the Spirit, if it finds witness in your spirit, you may run with it and leave me behind, so take it slow. .

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This, to me, would imply a predesignation, an actual pointing out and choosing from among a group, in order to complete the plan of God. I am inclined to assign pre-existence of being for us to accord with this passage. There is little evidence to support such a thought, so faith in the word must suffice.

fivesense

rjp34652@yahoo.com · Jul 27, 2010

Pegg said:
im not really sure what you are implying the spirit to be. Can you explain what you think the spirit is in less then 10 words?

The eternal and absolute core of what we are.

brionne · Aug 2, 2010

fivesense said:
Hi Pegg, this too may be meditated upon for better understanding of who and what we are. Knowing your propensity to trance-out in the Spirit, if it finds witness in your spirit, you may run with it and leave me behind, so take it slow. .

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This, to me, would imply a predesignation, an actual pointing out and choosing from among a group, in order to complete the plan of God. I am inclined to assign pre-existence of being for us to accord with this passage. There is little evidence to support such a thought, so faith in the word must suffice.

fivesense

I agree that it is referring to a predesignation of sorts....just not the sort you have in mind.

Here the apostle Paul is speaking to those he calls the 'chosen' ones. He mentions that they have been chosen from 'before the founding of the world' so I can see how some may come to the conclusion you've come to.

I guess we need to know who the 'chosen' ones are and what the term 'before the founding of the world' means.

In Vs 5 he explains what the 'chosen' ones have been chosen for:
"For he foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to himself..."
So these 'chosen' ones are to be adopted as 'sons'. But what exactly does that mean for them?
Paul spoke to the Romans about this in Romans 8:29 "because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son"

What is the image of Jesus?
Paul explains this aspect too in Romans 6:5 "For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall certainly also be [united with him in the likeness] of his resurrection"

We know that Jesus was resurrected to heaven...his body became a spiritual body. Paul further explains this in 1Cor 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. ...44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body"

The answer is that these 'chosen' ones are going to be with Christ in heaven, they will live as spirits and rule with Christ in the heavenly kingdom as Revelation 20:6 says: “Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.”

Now the question is were these ones predesignated individually for that purpose? I would say that they were 'as a group' because from the time in Eden when sin first entered the world, God had designated a 'Seed' to crush the serpents head. That Seed is the Messiah and he was going to be put up as a king of a new Kingdom arranged by God. He would rule with some from among mankind to bring the nations back to God. So in this way the 'chosen' ones were designated as a 'group' to rule with Christ in that kingdom....but individuals were not designated. The reason being is that any of them could have their position as a chosen one taken away from them if they failed to maintain their good standing before God. Paul told these chosen ones in 1Cor 5:11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner...13 “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves....15 Do YOU not know that YOUR bodies are members of Christ? 19 What! Do YOU not know that the body of YOU people is [the] temple of the holy spirit within YOU, which YOU have from God?”

So if they were really predestined to be these chosen ones, then there is no reason to think that they might ever do anything wrong so as to be removed from the congregation...God would already know that they would remain clean and holy and therefore they would not need such strong words.

Martin W. · Aug 2, 2010

Not sure I agree.

There are many instances in the bible where the flesh body is in the grave yet the person is with the Lord .

fivesense · Aug 4, 2010

Martin W. said:
Not sure I agree.

There are many instances in the bible where the flesh body is in the grave yet the person is with the Lord .

Don't know where they are Martin, could you give a hint?

fivesense

RND · Sep 4, 2010

skyangel said:
The word soul in Hebrew is nephesh which is also translated as mind, person, heart, creature, body, himself, yourself, will, desire, appetite.

The word soul in Greek is psychē which is also translated as mind, heart, life.

We get our English words psychiatry, psychiatric, psychiatrist from the word psyche. It has to do with the mind heart and emotions of people. This is not a separate part of a person than the spirit and body but is a combination or a unity of the spirit and body.

Some religions teach about a "soul sleep" There is no such term as "soul sleep" in the bible. That is a man made false doctrine which is not taught in the bible at all when you study the word death in the bible and understand what it means both spiritually as well as physically.

What the bible refers to as "sleep" or "rest" is actually death in a physical sense and a state of spiritual unawareness in a spiritual sense. ( Luke 8:52-53, John11:11-14 ) Jesus used the terms dead and asleep interchangeably.

To understand what a soul really is, we can find a description of what a soul is made of and how it is made in Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Now read it carefully and study this. God formed man from dust. Stop there and you have a lump of dust or clay which has some form.
That clay body is lying lifeless on the ground. It began from dust and returns to dust. ( Ecc 12:7 )
That lifeless dust had no Spirit in it till God BREATHED a Spirit into the body of clay. and man became a living soul as opposed to a dead body.

DUST ( body ) + BREATH ( the Spirit of God ) = SOUL. ( A living thinking mortal )

When the Spirit is separated from the body, the soul is destroyed. It no longer exists because a soul is a combination of the body and Spirit or a unity of the flesh and the spirit which makes the flesh come alive. The soul is not something separate from a spirit or a body. It is a combination of the two as you can see from the "recipe" of a soul in Gen2:7.
The Body and the Spirit can be separate but when they are, the body is dead, lifeless, is not a soul at all. Therefore "soul sleep" is an imaginary fictional construct of the deceived carnal mind of man.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

There is the body which returns to dust and there is the Spirit which returns to God. There is no soul that goes any place or sleeps anywhere because it simply disappears and is no more when the Spirit leaves the body.

As a visual example,
Imagine you have two ingredients.... flour and water. They are two completely different things alone. Mix them together and you get a dough. You do not end up with flour, water and dough. You end up with dough which is made of water and flour. If you begin with the dough ( soul ) and then separate the dough ( soul ) from the water ( Spirit ), you do not end up with flour ( body ) water (Spirit ) and dough (soul ) but the dough ( soul ) disappears completely and is no longer dough but goes back to where it started as flour ( dust) and water ( Spirit )

The word soul is referring to the flesh of man ( body ) in a literal as well as a spiritual sense.
The Spirit is referring to the Spirit of God ( breath ) which is the LIFE of God inside the body of flesh or the literal air that we breathe which enables us to think and move and do as the Father tells us to do.

When you read the word soul in the bible, do not think of something that is separate from the spirit but rather think of a combination of flesh and spirit. A soul does not exist without flesh or without spirit. A soul IS a mortal living being not something separate from a mortal living being.

The only scripture in the bible which refers to body soul and spirit is..... 1 Thess 5: 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Many religions tend to teach and imply by using that scripture, that the body is made up of three parts and is an example of a "trinity" concept but it is not.
What Paul is saying or praying is that the Spirit and the body be preserved together as a soul and the Spirit will be preserved together with the body to complete a blameless soul.

The little word "and" between body, soul, spirit, in 1 Thess 5:23, is the word "kai" in Greek which is a correlative conjuction which coordinates things and brings them together as a parallelism rather than separating them as two or three different things. They are merely different words describing the same thing which is the soul. It is like saying Father and God and Creator. These three words are not referring to three different gods or three "persons" or even three parts of one being but are merely different words describing the very same being or same Spirit.

Excellent description.

veteran · Sep 4, 2010

Here's a hint, and it's a dad-gum big one.

2 Cor 5:1-10
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved (kataluo), we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Our "earthly house of this tabernacle" is our flesh body. If it is dissolved (demolish, destroyed), no worry, for we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens, i.e., a heavenly body. Paul makes a clean distinction between an earthly flesh body and a heavenly spiritual type body, revealing they each are of two separate dimensions of existence.

But what the materialist 'dead in the ground' theory teaches, is that if our flesh body is dissolved and no more, then there's nothing left that can exist! What of those in war who's flesh bodies were actually dissolved by an explosion, literally turned into vapor? According to Apostle Paul, there exists another 'house', eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

While here in the earthly dimension in our flesh bodies, "we" groan in desiring to be clothed with our house from heaven. He reveals that something inside us is not the same thing as our earthly house, nor our heavenly house. Wonder what it is? And how can it be found "naked" in that sense?

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Our flesh is NOT the part of us that groans, for we know the fate of our flesh is to go back to the elements of the dust where it came from, even as Paul said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doth corruption inherit incorruption (1 Cor.15:50).

5 Now He That hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

God has given those in Christ "the earnest of the Spirit". Is that the same "spirit" that animals are imbued with? Is that about an animating spirit which all living things have? Obviously not, otherwise all men, and even all living creatures would be "born again" of The Spirit, a requirement for only those in His Salvation.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

What does he mean that while we are at home in our earthly body, we are absent from the Lord? Again, Paul makes a distinction between two dimensions of existence, the earthy and the heavenly.

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

How can we be absent from our body and be present with the Lord? Does that have something to do with Eccl.12:5-7 with our spirit going back to God Who gave it? Yes. It reveals that spirit idea in Eccl.12 is not just about the idea of animating spirit which all living creatures have.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of Him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
(KJV)

Where is it written that we all will appear before the judgment seat of Christ in flesh bodies?

Lev 26:11
11 And I will set My tabernacle among you: and My soul (nephesh) shall not abhor you.
(KJV)

How is it that God Himself speaks of His Own Soul, if the idea of having a soul is only about living in a flesh body? Is GOD flesh?

Ps 16:10
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt Thou suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption.
(KJV)

How is a soul able to go into hell in the first place, if it dies with the flesh body at flesh death?

Ps 9:17
17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
(KJV)

What Is A Soul?

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