SinSinSin

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marks

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Has anyone else noticed that threads which discuss our salvation become so focused on sin?

Why is that?

Salvation is through faith in Christ.

Why aren't we talking more about that?

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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Has anyone else noticed that threads which discuss our salvation become so focused on sin?

Why is that?

Salvation is through faith in Christ.

Why aren't we talking more about that?

Much love!

Because we need to be aware if any still have a problem with sin, they haven't been freed from it, and are NOT born again. Don't you want to make sure that Jesus won't be talking to you and saying, "Depart from me, I never knew you, you who practice wickedness." Matthew 7:21-23.

So if you don't care about others salvation, just keep your rose colored OSAS glasses on. I care, and that's why I feel it is the most important issue in the Church. Because we can't free ourselves, so we must give it to Jesus, and He will give you the power to be sinless. Then you can stop worrying about sin, and start the life-long journey to becoming perfect in the fruit of the Spirit. 2 Peter 1:5-7.
 
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justbyfaith

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Repentance is the beginning, when we renounce the mind of the flesh - our sinful ways - and receive the mind of Christ.

Now we are in training to think according to the mind of Christ - taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.

Much love!
Christ is holy...so the thoughts that are taken captive to His obedience will be holy thoughts...not captivated by sin.

Preaching against sin on the other hand is a holy vein of thinking.
 

DPMartin

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Has anyone else noticed that threads which discuss our salvation become so focused on sin?

Why is that?

Salvation is through faith in Christ.

Why aren't we talking more about that?

Much love!

one can talk about what they know and speculate, theorize about what they don't know. all men know sin, but who knows the Lord?
 

Pearl

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Christ is holy...so the thoughts that are taken captive to His obedience will be holy thoughts...not captivated by sin.

Preaching against sin on the other hand is a holy vein of thinking.
Preaching against sin can make people look into themselves instead of to Jesus.

The better preaching would be to teach people how to deal with temptation and sinful thoughts and that God loves them even if they are weak and fall into temptation. Even though we are saved/born again and washed clean we all need our feet washed from time to time.

John 13:10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean.
 

justbyfaith

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Preaching against sin can make people look into themselves instead of to Jesus.

I disagree. I believe that the law, which gives us the knowledge of sin, is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ.

The better preaching would be to teach people how to deal with temptation and sinful thoughts and that God loves them even if they are weak and fall into temptation. Even though we are saved/born again and washed clean we all need our feet washed from time to time.

No amount of such teaching will avail if they are never born again of the Holy Spirit. Being born again will solve the problem of temptation. The living wager will begin to flow from your innermost being and will satisfy you so that the things of this world will no longer have any appeal to you (John 6:35, John 4:13-14, John 7:37-39). You will see it as being on the same level as drinking water from the toilet.
 

Pearl

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I disagree. I believe that the law, which gives us the knowledge of sin, is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ.



No amount of such teaching will avail if they are never born again of the Holy Spirit. Being born again will solve the problem of temptation. The living wager will begin to flow from your innermost being and will satisfy you so that the things of this world will no longer have any appeal to you (John 6:35, John 4:13-14, John 7:37-39). You will see it as being on the same level as drinking water from the toilet.

I speak from experience. And perhaps you missed the bit where I said: Even though we are saved/born again and washed clean we all need our feet washed from time to time.

Christians already know that they should not sin so preaching against it is perhaps a waste of breath but new Christians especially need to know how to deal with it when they do something wrong or have a bad attitude as they surely will. It's ok to preach against sin but you also need teaching on how to deal with sin in you walk with God. And this seems to be something that is often lacking in discipleship.
 

marks

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Preaching against sin can make people look into themselves instead of to Jesus.

The better preaching would be to teach people how to deal with temptation and sinful thoughts and that God loves them even if they are weak and fall into temptation. Even though we are saved/born again and washed clean we all need our feet washed from time to time.

John 13:10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean.
Well said!

There just seems to be such a focus on condemning rather than building up.

Much love!
 

justbyfaith

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I speak from experience. And perhaps you missed the bit where I said: Even though we are saved/born again and washed clean we all need our feet washed from time to time.

Christians already know that they should not sin so preaching against it is perhaps a waste of breath but new Christians especially need to know how to deal with it when they do something wrong or have a bad attitude as they surely will. It's ok to preach against sin but you also need teaching on how to deal with sin in you walk with God. And this seems to be something that is often lacking in discipleship.

I believe that the main teaching on how to deal with temptation is a type of reverse psychology that the Lord uses on us when we come to the knowledge of His grace in our lives.

The law has the effect of exacerbating temptation as a kind of "forbidden fruit" or "wet paint" principle.

When we are told not to do something, the flesh rises up within us and says, "I can do that if I want to".

But grace takes away the penalty of sin and so the law is no longer an element that presents to us "forbidden fruit"...because now there is no condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus (John 5:24 (kjv))...and those who are in Christ do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1 (kjv)).

So then, because there is no condemnation for us, the law now only behaves as a set of wisdom principles rather than a hard taskmaster that condemns us when we fail.

Therefore, the principle of the law, that it produces all manner of concupiscence (Romans 7:7-13) has been dealt with by the concept of grace.

The more we realize that we are not condemned if we violate the principle of the law, the more we find that temptation no longer has any sway in our lives.

But until we come to that understanding, it is also important that we resist temptation (see James 1:12-16, 1 Peter 1:6-7) and learn that the only way we can overcome sin in our lives is through the grace of God; which also enables us to resist temptation when we lose sight of the fact that we are covered by the grace of God. Because the devil then comes in and tells us that we are covered by the grace of God even if we sin...after that he has btought in the law to exacerbate sin...thus he turns grace into license.

So we must at the point that the law has come in, seek to resist the devil and he will flee from us. We must seek to come back to the understanding that we are covered by the grace of the Lord without falling back into the temptation of thinking that such grace is a license to sin...

It is a fine line that I still find sometimes that I do not know the way to escape. I find that it is necessary to never allow the law to come in and tempt me rather than attempt to deal with that temptation after the law has had its effect of making that sin appealing.

And the Lord has given me the victory over a short period of time. I find that it is wisdom to be on guard against temptation any time that I begin to think that I am standing and doing well (1 Corinthians 10:12-13).

A good word in all of this is to remember that if we take advantage of the grace of the Lord and sin; when we know that He has given us grace so that if we do sin, it will not be to our condemnation; that we are in effect insulting the Spirit of grace and taking grace for granted in our lives.

Therefore to sin willfully would be out of the question; while if we sin unintentionally or ignorantly, we find that the grace of the Lord is there and He will pick us up when we fall. For the righteous falls seven times and gets back up again; but the wicked fall into mischief--Proverbs 24:16.

Also, see Psalms 37:23-24; but consider also that in the New Testament we have it even better, in Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, and 1 john 2:10.
 
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justbyfaith

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You realize this can take some time, right? Even the whole course of your life perhaps?

Much love!

See post #12 (SinSinSin).

But I would say that the second benefit (spoken of in 2 Corinthians 1:15) can happen in a person in a moment of time; whether the person is 17 or 70.
 

CharismaticLady

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Preaching against sin can make people look into themselves instead of to Jesus.

The better preaching would be to teach people how to deal with temptation and sinful thoughts and that God loves them even if they are weak and fall into temptation. Even though we are saved/born again and washed clean we all need our feet washed from time to time.

John 13:10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean.

Pearl, I like these verses and like to compare two versions.

2 Corinthians 13:5 NKJV
5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.

2 Corinthians 13:5 TLB
5 Check up on yourselves. Are you really Christians? Do you pass the test? Do you feel Christ’s presence and power more and more within you? Or are you just pretending to be Christians when actually you aren’t at all?


1 John 3:3 NKJV
3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

1 John 3:3 TLB
3 And everyone who really believes this will try to stay pure because Christ is pure.
 

justbyfaith

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Pearl, I like these verses and like to compare two versions.

2 Corinthians 13:5 NKJV
5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.

2 Corinthians 13:5 TLB
5 Check up on yourselves. Are you really Christians? Do you pass the test? Do you feel Christ’s presence and power more and more within you? Or are you just pretending to be Christians when actually you aren’t at all?


1 John 3:3 NKJV
3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

1 John 3:3 TLB
3 And everyone who really believes this will try to stay pure because Christ is pure.
I don't like those versions for 1 John 3:3...

Because 1 John 3:3 is to be used in conjunction with a few other verses in order to prove the doctrine of entire sanctification.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jo 2:6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
 

Triumph1300

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Christians already know that they should not sin so preaching against it is perhaps a waste of breath but new Christians especially need to know how to deal with it when they do something wrong or have a bad attitude as they surely will.

That's why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is so important.

Jesus told new Christians to wait upon the power from up high.
It was a commandment, given by Christ!

And it came as "a mighty wind with tongues of fire".....it changed everything!

Sad that this is only preached in a few churches.
In my opinion it is one of the most important event in a Christian's life!

The Holy Spirit brings conviction when sin tries to enter into a Christian.
 
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quietthinker

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Has anyone else noticed that threads which discuss our salvation become so focused on sin?

Why is that?

Salvation is through faith in Christ.

Why aren't we talking more about that?

Much love!
The constant regurgitation of similar subjects.....the never ending amount of words made to describe the most basic of concepts ensures there is limited growth if any in understanding the deeper and richer aspects of Salvation.

Stuck is stuck and it behooves every individual to do the utmost to get out of this desponding spiral.
 

justbyfaith

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There is a problem when you have people preaching that repentance is not necessary for salvation.

In Hebrews it says we will move on to bigger and better things in doctrine, if the Lord permits.

The Lord will not permit us to go to other doctrines if people are preaching false doctrine as concerning the basics.

As long as that is occurring, God will raise people up to combat false doctrine and this means preaching on the subject of sin where false doctrine is being preached on that subject.
 
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marks

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See post #12 (SinSinSin).

But I would say that the second benefit (spoken of in 2 Corinthians 1:15) can happen in a person in a moment of time; whether the person is 17 or 70.

That's not a proof-text of some future work of grace in our lives, it is speaking of Paul being able to again offer them assistance.

I think this is another aspect of my same concern. @Pearl said this well, about the sin focus causing us to look at ourselves, while we do better to look at Jesus. This is, I believe, what frees us from sin, is to realize we are free to just forget about ourselves, magnify the Lord, and worship Him.

This idea of a "second benefit", what some call the baptism of the Holy Spirit, something after being saved, this communicates the idea that someone may be born again, alive in Christ, free from sin, eternally alive . . . and yet . . . there is a missing piece without which they cannot fulfill the Christian life.

While the Bible speaks of being filled with the Spirit, typically in relation to some particular thing, like, they were filled with the Spirit and preached the Gospel boldly, things like that, Peter says very specifically that through God's promised to us we already have everything we need. Paul tells us we have every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realm in Christ.

I believe these things are true. We're not waiting for the "magic key" that's going to make everything work. We are now united with Christ, justified from sin, alive unto God, what are we waiting for?

Much love!
 
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marks

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The constant regurgitation of similar subjects.....the never ending amount of words made to describe the most basic of concepts ensures there is limited growth if any in understanding the deeper and richer aspects of Salvation.

Stuck is stuck and it behooves every individual to do the utmost to get out of this desponding spiral.
Thank you!
 
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