The Sabbath Day and Jesus

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justbyfaith

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With God there is no such thing as a "new understanding". So there would be none for the God-Man Christ.

God the Father, in becoming a Man, came to experientially know what it means to be human.

The Spirit who inhabits eternity (before He was incarnated) has no concept of this.

It's one of the main reasons why He became a Man...so He could experience what it means to be human and know the fear of death and also taste death for every one of us (I believe that you will find these concepts in Hebrews 2).
 

atpollard

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[Exodus 20:8-11 NASB] 8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 "Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; [in it] you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

So I have a question: What is work?
If I wash the dirty dishes after supper, is that “work”?
If I drop a fork, should I leave it on the floor until the next day to avoid the “work” of picking it up?
Is making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich also a form of “work”?

How strict is this thing about “shall not do any work”? What about getting out of bed, technically the PHYSICS definition of work would involve any change in potential or kinetic energy ... so the act of standing up requires “work”.

How can we be certain what God’s original intention was for this particular command?
I really want to understand what God is asking.
 

justbyfaith

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[Exodus 20:8-11 NASB] 8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 "Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; [in it] you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

So I have a question: What is work?
If I wash the dirty dishes after supper, is that “work”?
If I drop a fork, should I leave it on the floor until the next day to avoid the “work” of picking it up?
Is making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich also a form of “work”?

How strict is this thing about “shall not do any work”? What about getting out of bed, technically the PHYSICS definition of work would involve any change in potential or kinetic energy ... so the act of standing up requires “work”.

How can we be certain what God’s original intention was for this particular command?
I really want to understand what God is asking.
It is important that you understand what is the spirit of this sabbath command and that you do not bind yourself to the letter.

The scribes and Pharisees judged rightly what is the letter; but they erred in that they did not abide by the spirit of what was written.

They went overboard. Even today, you cannot press a button on an elevator in Israel because the scribes have interpreted that as work. The elevators are programmed to go up one floor at a time and the door opens at each floor, every Saturday.

If you are going to keep the letter of the sabbath law, you cannot go anywhere in your car on Saturday because starting your engine is making a fire.

Obviously, Jesus re-defined the sabbath law (according to the spirit) so that 1) the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath, 2) it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days; because 3) Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath.
 
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Ziggy

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This gives you an idea about what profaning the Sabbath is.
It's about commerce, buying, selling, trading..
If you think about the verse.. you cannot serve God and mammon.. mammon being money or riches,
You put your livelihood, your own ability to sustain yourself, instead of trusting God to provide for you.
In the wilderness during 40 years, God provided manna 6 days. Everyday they would go out and gather it.
On the 6th day God would send them double, so on the seventh day they would not need to work.

This is before there was commerce. It was the first step in a training process to learn to trust God for their needs.
But here:
Neh 13:15 In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals.
Neh 13:16 There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.
Neh 13:17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?
Neh 13:18 Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.
Neh 13:19 And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.
Neh 13:20 So the merchants and sellers of all kind of ware lodged without Jerusalem once or twice.
Neh 13:21 Then I testified against them, and said unto them, Why lodge ye about the wall? if ye do so again, I will lay hands on you. From that time forth came they no more on the sabbath.

This is that Sabbath Rest:

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

There was a day when a man was out picking up sticks, and a couple guys saw him and accused him of breaking the Sabbath.
And so they judged him guilty and stoned him according to the law.
The same law that stated "thou shalt not kill" .
So while they thought they was keeping the law by killing someone, they was actually breaking the law themselves by killing.
God called them stubborn and stiff-necked because they could not understand the spiritual meaning of the commandments.
They became their own judges, accusing or else excusing others...
which reminds me of the verse Paul wrote:

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

But they didn't have a conscience. They were hard hearted. No mercy, no compassion.

When Jesus came he taught the people what the Sabbath was meant for and how we should keep it.
By taking care of eachothers needs instead of our own. Giving rest to those that are weary. Giving comfort to those that mourn.
Even if it was a beast needed watering.

Luk 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?
Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Luk 13:17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.

This is the true Sabbath meaning. And if you keep it, you will never forget it. And what it was meant for.
Rest from your labours, and to give rest to others.

That's how I understand it.
Hugs
 

Ziggy

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The walls of Jericho. Those that enter in by force.
Nehemiah. Those that are shut out.

Jericho:
Deu 32:48 And the LORD spake unto Moses that selfsame day, saying,
Deu 32:49 Get thee up into this mountain Abarim, unto mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab, that is over against Jericho; and behold the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel for a possession:
Deu 32:50 And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people:
Deu 32:51 Because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel at the waters of Meribah-Kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin; because ye sanctified me not in the midst of the children of Israel.
Deu 32:52 Yet thou shalt see the land before thee; but thou shalt not go thither unto the land which I give the children of Israel.

Heb 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

because ye sanctified me not in the midst of the children of Israel.
or
because of unbelief.

NLT: For both of you betrayed me with the Israelites at the waters of Meribah at Kadesh in the wilderness of Zin. You failed to demonstrate my holiness to the people of Israel there.

So Is God saying that Moses and Aaron didn't believe God?

They betrayed and failed to demonstrate his holiness...
His sanctification..
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Sanctified:
Strong's H6942 - qadash
to consecrate, sanctify, prepare, dedicate, be hallowed, be holy, be sanctified, be separate
to set apart as sacred, consecrate, dedicate
to observe as holy, keep sacred
to honour as sacred, hallow
to keep oneself apart or separate

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. H6942

Lev 22:32 Neither shall ye profane my holy name; but I will be hallowed H6942 among the children of Israel: I am the LORD which hallow H6942 you,

Sanctified is a good study.. I go grab a shovel and head over to the study hall.

But Jericho.. I took a nap and when I woke up I was thinking.. 6 days of manna, they circled the city for 6 days.
On the 6th day God gave them double manna, they blew the trumpets long and loud on the 6th day.
On the seventh day they did not go in the field to collect the manna, and on the 7th day the walls came down.

Now Nehemiah was mad because they turned God's Sabbath into a marketplace. Kind of like the one Jesus got huffy with and overturned all the money changer's tables.
And Nehemiah shut the doors on the Sabbath so none could enter in. It was now a place santified wholly for rest and prayer.
A time to be sanctified in the sanctified place with God. That would be His people who keep Him holy in His place.
And in Genesis we see this "place" is the 7th day. No matter where you are on the planet or on the moon,
This day is God's day. This IS the Lord's Day.

What happened here?
at the waters of Meribah-Kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin;

Heading to the study hall..
grab a shovel..
and some popcorn :)
Come on..
Hugs
 

atpollard

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The scribes and Pharisees judged rightly what is the letter; but they erred in that they did not abide by the spirit of what was written.
I do not believe that this is correct.
By your hyperliteralism, eating is work and so is breathing. Clearly God did not command the seventh day to be a day of fasting when they gathered a double portion of mana on the sixth day. Sacrifices were offered on the sabbath, which involved considerable effort dragging an offering, having a priest slaughter it, cooking it and serving a sabbath meal.

If you believe that I have misunderstood scripture, I will be happy to listen to any scripture that you would care to present to support your opinions. However, as they now stand, the reality of what was commanded during the exodus (by God Himself) contradicts your characterization of the “letter of the Law”.

No work means that a Farmer cannot farm on the sabbath, a fisherman cannot fish on the sabbath, a shoemaker cannot make shoes on the sabbath. Anything more is the “rules of men” that Jesus criticized the Pharisees for adding to the Law of God.
 

justbyfaith

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Did the scribes and Pharisees say that it was a sin to eat on the sabbath?

Mat 23:1, Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3, All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
 

justbyfaith

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Again, the letter of the sabbath day laws is that you shall not do "any" work on the sabbath day (Exodus 20:10).

The spirit of the same law is slightly different; taking into account what the rest of the law says about working in the temple and other similar things.
 

Ziggy

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And Jesus posed the question..
But it's ok for you to perform circumcision on the 8th day according to the law, and yet accuse me for healing on the sabbath?
It's ok for you to lead your animals to water, but it's not ok for me to grab some corn?

They could do no wrong, and everyone else was a sinner.
They mishandled the law and made themselves the judges.
They ate the forbidden fruit so to speak rather than obey God.

Shabbat Shalom
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quietthinker

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And Jesus posed the question..
But it's ok for you to perform circumcision on the 8th day according to the law, and yet accuse me for healing on the sabbath?
It's ok for you to lead your animals to water, but it's not ok for me to grab some corn?

They could do no wrong, and everyone else was a sinner.
They mishandled the law and made themselves the judges.
They ate the forbidden fruit so to speak rather than obey God.

Shabbat Shalom
hugs
...the forbidden fruit....hmmmm, an interesting way of putting it!
 

Ziggy

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...the forbidden fruit....hmmmm, an interesting way of putting it!
Kind of like, it's ok for you to keep wal-mart open, but I have to close my mom and pop shop.
Or, You can keep your liquer stores open but I can't go to church.

Rules for thee, but not for me.
They put themselves above the law.
And cheat and steal and lie..

and Burn and Loot and Murder..
yeah.. gonna be a busy night in the states tonight.
I'm just going to go find a quiet room and pray.
And sing, and pray some more.

Hugs
 

ChristisGod

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Kind of like, it's ok for you to keep wal-mart open, but I have to close my mom and pop shop.
Or, You can keep your liquer stores open but I can't go to church.

Rules for thee, but not for me.
They put themselves above the law.
And cheat and steal and lie..

and Burn and Loot and Murder..
yeah.. gonna be a busy night in the states tonight.
I'm just going to go find a quiet room and pray.
And sing, and pray some more.

Hugs
good points !
 

Behold

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In another thread this was the discussion I though deserved its own thread.
@justbyfaith made some unbiblical claims against Jesus below in response to Watersong.
@WaterSong said
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. Mark 2: 27-28 If anyone had a right to "work" on Sabbath day it was he.
In doing this he demonstrated doing the work of God did not violate Sabbath.
!

Reader,
Are we under the Law or are we under Grace? ?
Don't know?
Better find out, asap..

"Where there is no law, there is no Transgression", and so, there is no Sin found in Christ, as "Christ is THE END OF THE LAW for every one who BELIEVES".....= born again.
Do you believe? Are you born again? Then Christ is the end of the Law for you.....as he KEPT IT in your place, as if you did..
Welcome to Salvation... its a GIFT.

This is why God had Paul write Romans 4:8.
It says that if you are born again, God does not charge you with your sin.

How can that be?
Because He has charged all of your Sin to Jesus, who died for them All.. "the sin of the world", and that includes yours.

"but ummm....but.........ummmmm, are you saying Behold..... are you teaching that we are not to keep the COMMANDMENTS"..

Beat ya to it, self saver....

You are to understand WHY you are not to keep them to try to stay SAVED...
So, keeping them is perfect, as long as you are not doing it because you believe this has to be done to stay saved.
When you get there in your BELIEVING, then you have stepped out of Self Righteousness, and into the Kingdom of God's Grace in your HEAD, as you are already there via your born again Spirit.
 

justbyfaith

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Reader,
Are we under the Law or are we under Grace? ?
Don't know?
Better find out, asap..

"Where there is no law, there is no Transgression", and so, there is no Sin found in Christ, as "Christ is THE END OF THE LAW for every one who BELIEVES".....= born again.
Do you believe? Are you born again? Then Christ is the end of the Law for you.....as he KEPT IT in your place, as if you did..
Welcome to Salvation... its a GIFT.

This is why God had Paul write Romans 4:8.
It says that if you are born again, God does not charge you with your sin.

How can that be?
Because He has charged all of your Sin to Jesus, who died for them All.. "the sin of the world", and that includes yours.

"but ummm....but.........ummmmm, are you saying Behold..... are you teaching that we are not to keep the COMMANDMENTS"..

Beat ya to it, self saver....

You are to understand WHY you are not to keep them to try to stay SAVED...
So, keeping them is perfect, as long as you are not doing it because you believe this has to be done to stay saved.
When you get there in your BELIEVING, then you have stepped out of Self Righteousness, and into the Kingdom of God's Grace in your HEAD, as you are already there via your born again Spirit.

As I have been preaching...that we are no longer bound by the letter, being delivered from the law; so that we are no longer bound to the letter but are obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).

Fact is, if someone is born again, their behaviour will be that of obedience...because in bearing the fruit of the Spirit there is no law that will condemn him.

Gal 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Those who are obedient to the Spirit are not under the law...because the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. Therefore the requirement of a set of do's and don'ts is not needed; because the man is governed by the love that the Holy Spirit has shed abroad in his heart (Romans 5:5); which love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4)..

And we obtain the Holy Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:14).
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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The Sabbath Day and Jesus

justbyfaith says:
That's right, He did not violate the spirit of the sabbath day laws; although He did violate the letter.[/Quote\]

You are in error justbyfaith. At Luke 13: 14-16 Jesus showed what hypocrital statements the Jews were making against anyone doing kind deeds on the Sabbath. The Sabbath day law was never to be used in such a way that kind deeds we're not to be done on the Sabbath or to punish anyone doing kind deeds on the Sabbath.
 

justbyfaith

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The Sabbath Day and Jesus

justbyfaith says:
That's right, He did not violate the spirit of the sabbath day laws; although He did violate the letter.[/Quote\]

You are in error justbyfaith. At Luke 13: 14-16 Jesus showed what hypocrital statements the Jews were making against anyone doing kind deeds on the Sabbath. The Sabbath day law was never to be used in such a way that kind deeds we're not to be done on the Sabbath or to punish anyone doing kind deeds on the Sabbath.
I am not in error and I also believe in the sound doctrine of the Trinity.

There is also no point in discussing other issues with you until you come to a biblical understanding of the Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because that is the pivotal subject on which your salvation depends. Until you are willing to accept that Jesus is the Son of God according to the definition given in Isaiah 9:6 (kjv), if you die you will be dying in your sins. This means that you will die in your sins if you die until and unless you accept the understanding that Jesus is the great I AM.

Other subjects are inconsequential in my discussions with you until you obtain the possibility of salvation by accepting the doctrine of Christ's Deity.

It is also true that your error in this subject matter is going to have an effect on your doctrine in other subject matters.

However, Jesus clearly broke the sabbath in John 5:18 because He claimed to be working on the sabbath in John 5:16-17 and wasn't lying.

Therefore, His claim that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God, was also valid.

If you do the study on the matter you will find that what I am saying is true.

'nuff said!
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I am not in error and I also believe in the sound doctrine of the Trinity.

There is also no point in discussing other issues with you until you come to a biblical understanding of the Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because that is the pivotal subject on which your salvation depends. Until you are willing to accept that Jesus is the Son of God according to the definition given in Isaiah 9:6 (kjv), if you die you will be dying in your sins. This means that you will die in your sins if you die until and unless you accept the understanding that Jesus is the great I AM.

Other subjects are inconsequential in my discussions with you until you obtain the possibility of salvation by accepting the doctrine of Christ's Deity.

It is also true that your error in this subject matter is going to have an effect on your doctrine in other subject matters.

However, Jesus clearly broke the sabbath in John 5:18 because He claimed to be working on the sabbath in John 5:16-17 and wasn't lying.

Therefore, His claim that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God, was also valid.

If you do the study on the matter you will find that what I am saying is true.

'nuff said!

The pivotal point is John 3:16 which you and many have trying to convince me to deny. So don't answer any of posts, I'm still going to post and I'll continue believing that Jesus is the Christ the Only Begotten Son of God. Jesus is not God he's the Only Begotten Son of God.
 

justbyfaith

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The pivotal point is John 3:16 which you and many have trying to convince me to deny. So don't answer any of posts, I'm still going to post and I'll continue believing that Jesus is the Christ the Only Begotten Son of God. Jesus is not God he's the Only Begotten Son of God.
The son that was given shall have the name of "The everlasting Father" according to Isaiah 9:6. In order to deny this you have to engage in eisegesis and change the wording of the scripture as it exists in the kjv, not once, but twice.

He shall have also the name of "The mighty God..." compare Psalms 50:1 (kjv).

Psa 50:1, [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] The mighty God, even the LORD (i.e. Jehovah), hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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The son that was given shall have the name of "The everlasting Father" according to Isaiah 9:6. In order to deny this you have to engage in eisegesis and change the wording of the scripture as it exists in the kjv, not once, but twice.

He shall have also the name of "The mighty God..." compare Psalms 50:1 (kjv).

Psa 50:1, [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] The mighty God, even the LORD (i.e. Jehovah), hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
Yes both Jesus and Jehovah are said to be mighty Gods in scripture, but nowhere in scripture is Jesus said to be Almighty God this is only applied to Jehovah and him alone.
Also yes Jesus is our eternal Father but not in the sense that Jehovah God is. Before the first man Adam fathered children, he disobeyed God and fell into sin. So the first man Adam lost his relationship as Gods son. So all of Adams descendants have all inherited sin from our forefather Adam along with all it's consequences, namely aging and death. Being released from the consequences of sin could only be realized by having a perfect Father, one who had not inherited sin and it's consequences. That person was the last Adam Jesus Christ. Just as the first Adam had no human Father neither did the last Adam Jesus Christ. Since the first Adam lost his relationship as Gods Son for himself and his offspring mankind needed a new father who was perfect , one like Adam when he was created. The point is if we exercise faith in the random sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God Jesus Christ he will become our Everlasting Father and our savior. So Jesus is our Everlasting Father because he replaced the first man Adam as our Eternal Father but Jehovah God is our eternal Father because he is our creator and the source of all life.