What Does Blasphemy of The Holy Spirit Actually Mean?

2nd Timothy Group · Dec 15, 2020

TheslightestID said:
Then you are saying, you don't actually have to do good, in order to get to heaven?

Nope. I'm saying that it is through the Effectual, Causal Power of God that makes us obey. This Power is called the Laws of the Spirit of Life (Rom 8:2), and the Laws, which are alive within a person's Heart is what it means to possess the Mind of Christ. Anyone who has the Mind of Christ, those who have lifted their Hearts to Jesus for Holy Purification, they share in the Divine Nature of Christ (2 Pet 1:4).

True Christians are first Drawn and Chosen, and they are then enabled to obey. This is what the Entire Bible is about . . . it is about the Power of God to orchestrate all things upon the earth. A good reading of the entire Old Testament shows that God is in control of virtually every mind of every living thing, and even controls rocks that just might split open and give forth the Water of the Holy Spirit. God is in control of ALL things. All things.

Deuteronomy 30:6 NLT - "The LORD your God will change your heart and the hearts of all your descendants, so that you will love him with all your heart and soul and so you may live!" - Enjoy the Word of God! It is Powerful and Amazing!

justbyfaith · Dec 15, 2020

TheslightestID said:
The bible disagrees with you completely. Pay special attention the bold in the following scriipture, as it refutes your claim simply and absolutely.

James 2:14–26

ESV

Faith Without Works Is Dead

"14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith rapart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even uthe demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also aRahab the prostitute justified by works bwhen she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead."

justbyfaith said:
The verses in James that speak of being justified by works are speaking of being justified ("declared righteous") before men (take a good look at Romans 4:2).

justbyfaith · Dec 15, 2020

2nd Timothy Group said:
Nah. A sober reading of the [entire] Bible makes it clear that it is the Circumcision of Christ, whether it was performed prior to His death, burial, and resurrection, or after. Salvation is entirely the Work of God, who is Christ. Below is one verse out of many similar verses.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NLT - "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship idols. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you so that you will follow my decrees and be careful to obey my regulations."

Have fun with it. Eze 36 states the exact same thing as Eze 11 (above).

I think that in order for Him to "sprinkle clean water on you" you normally have to submit to baptism.

I suppose that He can just save you on some rainy day by hitting you with some rain; but I think that this is primarily referring to being baptized; and in order to be baptized properly you must first die to self; because the next step is that you are buried and then risen with Christ.

So then, repentance is a prerequisite for baptism in the holy scriptures; and through the sprinkling of baptism a person may receive a new heart and a new spirit so that thenceforth the Lord will cause them to walk in His statutes and in His judgments.

justbyfaith · Dec 15, 2020

TheslightestID said:
The bible disagrees with you completely. Pay special attention the bold in the following scriipture, as it refutes your claim simply and absolutely.

James 2:14–26

ESV

Faith Without Works Is Dead

"14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith rapart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even uthe demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also aRahab the prostitute justified by works bwhen she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead."

justbyfaith said:
See Ephesians 2:8-9;

Romans 4:1-8 (Romans 4:5-6);

Titus 3:4-7 (Titus 3:5);

Romans 11:5-6.

2nd Timothy Group · Dec 15, 2020

justbyfaith said:
I think that in order for Him to "sprinkle clean water on you" you normally have to submit to baptism.

The Faith is the exact same in the OT as the NT. This sprinkling is the Holy Spirit. The Old Testament is a picture of what takes place in the New Testament (less the paid debt of Christ . . . the dead would be given the opportunity to believe in Christ).

Have fun!

2nd Timothy Group · Dec 15, 2020

justbyfaith said:
I suppose that He can just save you on some rainy day by hitting you with some rain; but I think that this is primarily referring to being baptized; and in order to be baptized properly you must first die to self; because the next step is that you are buried and then risen with Christ.

So then, repentance is a prerequisite for baptism in the holy scriptures; and through the sprinkling of baptism a person may receive a new heart and a new spirit so that thenceforth the Lord will cause them to walk in His statutes and in His judgments.

You've just described the Core of the entire Bible. Colossians 2:9-15. Study those seven verses until your mind is blown away. Then Life will begin . . . and you won't believe it.

justbyfaith · Dec 15, 2020

2nd Timothy Group said:
The Faith is the exact same in the OT as the NT. This sprinkling is the Holy Spirit. The Old Testament is a picture of what takes place in the New Testament (less the paid debt of Christ . . . the dead would be given the opportunity to believe in Christ).

Have fun!

You must consider the following if you believe that baptism is not in water but only in the Holy Spirit.

Act 10:45, And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46, For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48, And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Here, they were already baptized in the Holy Ghost, but Peter commanded them to be baptized in water.

Why?

And, how is baptism only in the Holy Spirit and not in water in light of this passage?

BARNEY BRIGHT · Dec 15, 2020

Prayer Warrior said:
Sorry, Barn, but I have no idea what you’re talking about, so I’ll just leave it at that.

I was actually posting to justbyfaith anyway.

justbyfaith · Dec 15, 2020

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
You said at post #75 that you believe the Word to be, "The Only Begotten Son of God," now you're posting as though you didn't post that when you said, "Is that what I said in post #75 ?
Do you even know what you believe and if you do can you express it clearly?

posts #1-#6 of the following thread:

True Trinity.

2nd Timothy Group · Dec 15, 2020

justbyfaith said:
You must consider the following if you believe that baptism is not in water but only in the Holy Spirit.

Act 10:45, And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46, For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48, And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Here, they were already baptized in the Holy Ghost, but Peter commanded them to be baptized in water.

Why?

And, how is baptism only in the Holy Spirit and not in water in light of this passage?

Not sure of what to say, here. The Circumcision of Christ had already taken place, and it is this Work of Christ that grants Salvation. So, after their baptism into the Holy Spirit, the lifting of the Curse of Adam and Eve, and having now received the Gift of the Holy Spirit, and now having the full Debt paid for their sins . . . Peter, as it seems to me, gave the option of baptism by water to the Jews within Cornelius's house. They were Gentiles, and Jews by Law shouldn't have even been in Cornelius's house. Baptism, to me, doesn't seem to be a requirement, but an option.

What I can say is that I know the difference between believing that I have been indwelt by the Spirit (though my life never changed) and from knowing that I have been Indwelt by the Spirit. My experience involves a place and time, as well as the experiencing my Baptism by Fire, being cleansed of the Curse of Adam and Eve. After being Purified, which was unbelievable, the Indwelling Power of God was even more unbelievable. Again, I have experienced the lifting of the Curse of Adam and Eve, and by this lifting, I have been Enabled to finally Obey. But I did nothing. This Work was all from God . . . nothing from me.

I was baptized in water when young . . . it meant nothing and did nothing. I became a horrible person. But the Baptism by Fire produced within me the True Fear of the Lord, and the Indwelling Holy Spirit enabled me to Obey, for that was the moment in which I was allowed to share in the Divine Nature of Christ (2 Pet 1:4). I now live by the Indwelling Laws of the Spirit of Life (Romans 8:2).

I wish everyone could experience Holy Transformation.

justbyfaith · Dec 15, 2020

2nd Timothy Group said:
I was baptized in water when young . . . it meant nothing and did nothing.

If you were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, then it procured for you what you would later experience.

If not, then I would say, can any man forbid water concerning you that you should not be baptized also in Jesus' Name?

Be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Paul Christensen · Dec 15, 2020

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
You said at post #75 that you believe the Word to be, "The Only Begotten Son of God," right? Then I asked you what John 1:14 means to you and you said, "It means to me that Jesus is God." If you believe as you said that the Word is, " The Only Begotten Son of God and it saids at John 1:14 the Word was made flesh, doesn't that mean it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became flesh not God?

Are you either a Mormon or a JW? Sounds like you are expressing their doctrines.

Paul Christensen · Dec 15, 2020

Prayer Warrior said:
Sorry, Barn, but I have no idea what you’re talking about, so I’ll just leave it at that.

The JWs believe that Jesus was a created being and not God. They conveniently ignore the various references that Jesus clearly indicated that He is God. When Jesus forgave the sins of the paralytic who was lowered through the roof, the Pharisees present asked, "Isn't God the only One who can forgive sins?" They were the strict theologians at the time, and they knew that God is the only One who can forgive sins, and so they were puzzled and offended that Jesus went right ahead and forgave the man's sins. Also, Jesus said, "Before Abraham, I AM". This is what God said to Moses out of the burning bush,
"I AM that I AM. Tell Pharaoh that I AM has sent you." Only God can use the expression I AM, and so it proves that Jesus is the same God who spoke to Moses out of the burning bush.

BARNEY BRIGHT · Dec 15, 2020

Paul Christensen said:
Are you either a Mormon or a JW? Sounds like you are expressing their doctrines.

I'm a JW

Paul Christensen · Dec 15, 2020

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
I'm a JW

OK. I understand your position. I see no point in arguing the point about this. All that happens is we get sucked down into the vortex of a stalemate. It is much better to stick to what we have in common. But the best of British luck with the other chaps on the thread!

2nd Timothy Group · Dec 15, 2020

justbyfaith said:
If you were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, then it procured for you what you would later experience.

I don't see how that can be True. The Bible is clear that no True Christian will become worse in their behavior, but better.

2 Corinthians 3:14-18 KJV - "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord."

The Holy Veil was removed a few years ago, baptized by the Holy Spirit in the middle of the Arizona Desert . . . no water was involved. Water baptism accomplished nothing for me, as I turned into a man who conducted all sorts of unbelievable evil. True Children of the Lord do not develop patterns of sin, but instead, they are relieved of them. But as said, after my water baptism . . . I remained a True child of the Devil.

1 John 3:8-10 KJV - "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

As said, after my Spiritual Baptism, I was then, and only then, Enabled to Obey by the Effectual, Causal Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Lastly, be cautious in judging the Experience that others have. Just because you haven't had that experience yourself, doesn't mean that our experiences are null and void.

2nd Timothy Group · Dec 15, 2020

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
I'm a JW

Welcome to the Christian forum, Barney. Mad respect to you for coming to "this side" and chatting it up with "us." It can't be easy.

justbyfaith · Dec 16, 2020

2nd Timothy Group said:
I don't see how that can be True. The Bible is clear that no True Christian will become worse in their behavior, but better.

2 Corinthians 3:14-18 KJV - "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord."

The Holy Veil was removed a few years ago, baptized by the Holy Spirit in the middle of the Arizona Desert . . . no water was involved. Water baptism accomplished nothing for me, as I turned into a man who conducted all sorts of unbelievable evil. True Children of the Lord do not develop patterns of sin, but instead, they are relieved of them. But as said, after my water baptism . . . I remained a True child of the Devil.

1 John 3:8-10 KJV - "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

As said, after my Spiritual Baptism, I was then, and only then, Enabled to Obey by the Effectual, Causal Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Lastly, be cautious in judging the Experience that others have. Just because you haven't had that experience yourself, doesn't mean that our experiences are null and void.

It says in Acts 2:38-39 that if you repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. It does not say when you will receive the gift; only that it is certain that you will.

So, if your baptism was in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, you received the Holy Ghost later as the result of that; no matter how much later it was.

Of course repentance is a needed factor also; so if you were baptized and only repented later, that might explain why you received the Spirit upon repenting instead of when you were baptized.

2nd Timothy Group · Dec 16, 2020

justbyfaith said:
It says in Acts 2:38-39 that if you repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. It does not say when you will receive the gift; only that it is certain that you will.

So, if your baptism was in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, you received the Holy Ghost later as the result of that; no matter how much later it was.

Of course repentance is a needed factor also; so if you were baptized and only repented later, that might explain why you received the Spirit upon repenting instead of when you were baptized.

Okie doke.

BARNEY BRIGHT · Dec 16, 2020

2nd Timothy Group said:
Welcome to the Christian forum, Barney. Mad respect to you for coming to "this side" and chatting it up with "us." It can't be easy.

No not easy but we are to preach the truth to everyone. They may not agree with what I say but I can at least say I told them.

What Does Blasphemy of The Holy Spirit Actually Mean?

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