Why, I Am A Christian

Upon the advice of a dear friend - I would never say the Bible - I have exp. it to be true that atheists know
way more about the Bible than I do and like to debate it, usually angrily, and I am no match.

I cannot answer an intellectual atheist with a smile and a shrug, as in "Sorry, you just don't
get it." Makes a Christian (me) look like they don't have a brain. ( And he thinks he's made his point all too well.)

If asked why I am a Christian -----I can say handily that Jesus was the greatest teacher on the planet- I can talk about His words with personal experience, because I have applied His words and look someone directly in the eyes with depth, clarity, fresh, amazed happiness and gentle power that His directions and words actually WORK!!

The whole Bible - no way, especially the Old Testament. Even the New T. ---they wll attack me over all the inconsistencies within the Gospels. ( And they know all of them!!! They have done their homework.)
I have no real answer to that.

I'm about the heart of the Bible - not the historical accuracies or inaccuracies. (Which they point out.)
And it's the love and joy that I have that utimately has my atheist friends go.... Hmmm -she's different than other Christians, she doesn't want to argue or explain by quoting some Bible - and after months they see I'm the real deal - not some nutty zealot quoting verses trying to "prove" something, but livin' the dream, walkin' the walk; appying what my Jesus told me to.

Now with another believer, we can talk about the Bible. Not with a militant atheist, no way, my friend was right.
They are way too prepared for an intellectual battle.

That's just me - you all do what you have been... if it's working.

I'm at a loss, to be honest. I've been trying my hardest to answer all of my husband's questions. I'm at the end of my spiritual rope here. I learn and read the bible, hungry for knowledge for not only myself but to help my husband understand. He's reading 'Mere Christianity' by C.S. Lewis right now, at my insistence. He's just really hung up on the terms of salvation. He thinks that a child murderer can go, 'Sorry about that God, I promise I won't do it again!" and even if he genuinely means it and genuinely believes in Christ, goes out and does it again, he can get into heaven. I just don't know what to say. Our debates are at an impasse because of this. It's my biggest obstacle and while I admit this, I'm not defeated. I'll keep trying to expose my husband to the word of Christ, have patience and pray that he'll understand it all-- but I can't help but feel that there should be something more I should tell him, something that I'm missing.

Hi Miss Hepburn, nice to see you back, and i fully agree with your post. See the problem is we are not supposed to know the bible we are supoosed to know Christ, to become like Him. As you can see atheists can know the bible better the nyou, it is not the evidence of God, it is what you allow Christ to do in you that be comes the evidence, it is what they can see in you that will make them want to change. knowing the bible isnt knowing Christ, it is knowing about Christ, the only way to Know Christ is ti learn from Him, but it is even harder to talk to christians about Jesus, because all they want to know is what the bible says, and they have the bible so its pointless repeating it over again. If you want your husband to see something, go to Jesus, ask Him to rteach you and change you, when He starts His work in you, you will not have to say anything, for your husband will se the change and want to know what is different.

In His Love

mjrhealth said:

Hi Miss Hepburn, nice to see you back, and i fully agree with your post. See the problem is we are not supposed to know the bible we are supoosed to know Christ, to become like Him. As you can see atheists can know the bible better the nyou, it is not the evidence of God, it is what you allow Christ to do in you that be comes the evidence, it is what they can see in you that will make them want to change. knowing the bible isnt knowing Christ, it is knowing about Christ, the only way to Know Christ is ti learn from Him, but it is even harder to talk to christians about Jesus, because all they want to know is what the bible says, and they have the bible so its pointless repeating it over again. If you want your husband to see something, go to Jesus, ask Him to rteach you and change you, when He starts His work in you, you will not have to say anything, for your husband will se the change and want to know what is different.

In His Love

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He sent you a letter and you think you don't need to know what it says, amazing! I believe if you don't know His Word you don't really know Him.

He sent you a letter and you think you don't need to know what it says, amazing! I believe if you don't know His Word you don't really know Him.

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He may have given you a letter, but He gave me Jesus. You can know about someone by reading their diary, but you will never know their intimate thoughts or subtil ways, untill you spend time with them. Next time your wife / husband says, " come to bed", tell them no. id rather read your diary. then see what happens.

In His Love

Jar said:

I'm at a loss, to be honest. I've been trying my hardest to answer all of my husband's questions. I'm at the end of my spiritual rope here. I learn and read the bible, hungry for knowledge for not only myself but to help my husband understand. He's reading 'Mere Christianity' by C.S. Lewis right now, at my insistence. He's just really hung up on the terms of salvation. He thinks that a child murderer can go, 'Sorry about that God, I promise I won't do it again!" and even if he genuinely means it and genuinely believes in Christ, goes out and does it again, he can get into heaven. I just don't know what to say. Our debates are at an impasse because of this. It's my biggest obstacle and while I admit this, I'm not defeated. I'll keep trying to expose my husband to the word of Christ, have patience and pray that he'll understand it all-- but I can't help but feel that there should be something more I should tell him, something that I'm missing.

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This is off-topic, but I sense the need to address more important. Please be patient.

Jesus is the Savior of all men, specially of them which believe. Your husband is part of the "all men". Agreed?

There is no passage of the Bible that changes this one, absolute truth.

The lake of fire, the second death, is just that, death for a second time. Those who have been vessels fitted for destruction go there after they are resurrected to life to face the condemnation of not believing on the Son.

Death is abolished in the end of all things.

All are made alive in Christ, as all had died in Adam.

The second death has no time frame connected to it in the Bible, but we know that death and sin are cast into the lake of fire as well, and that Christ abolishes death and sin is no more.

Death and sin cease at the consummation of all things, and Christ has reconciled all things unto His Father.

Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

Do not allow anyone to keep this truth from permeating your soul and spirit. He will reign, He will subdue, He will subject all unto Himself. He will abolish death, sin will be no more, and His Father will become All in all.

1C 15:25-28 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Phl 4:6 for nothing be anxious, but in everything by prayer, and by supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God;

Your spouse has been ransomed with a price. The Ransomer will not give up what He has captured back from the enemy. He is not a fool or a man to let anyone slip out of His hands. The future fate of your spouse may be terrible and extremely sad, but it is not forever, it has an end, and it is being made alive in Christ. That he may not share in the same spiritual blessing you look forward to, living a deathless life alongside the Christ of God, is regrettable. But he is not "lost" forever. His time of reconciliation with God must be justified with blood or with fire. He, like you, must wait for the mercy of God to come into his life.

I am hoping that your awareness of the consummation of all things in God will allow you to be free to serve your spouse in sincerity and humility, knowing that his fate is not eternal separation from God. The above passages defy that lie of the Manipulator. They are the final word on the subject. Have peace in your soul towards your husband, since God is at peace with him already, having made his salvation sure through the death of His Son on the Cross, at the time and season appointed of God, not you or anyone else.

Jar said:

I'm at a loss, to be honest. I've been trying my hardest to answer all of my husband's questions. I'm at the end of my spiritual rope here. I learn and read the bible, hungry for knowledge for not only myself but to help my husband understand. He's reading 'Mere Christianity' by C.S. Lewis right now, at my insistence. He's just really hung up on the terms of salvation. He thinks that a child murderer can go, 'Sorry about that God, I promise I won't do it again!" and even if he genuinely means it and genuinely believes in Christ, goes out and does it again, he can get into heaven. I just don't know what to say. Our debates are at an impasse because of this. It's my biggest obstacle and while I admit this, I'm not defeated. I'll keep trying to expose my husband to the word of Christ, have patience and pray that he'll understand it all-- but I can't help but feel that there should be something more I should tell him, something that I'm missing.

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Your husband is suffering from something that is classically known as the 'pride of life.' His attempt to rebutt your argument by the use of a fictious and ridiculous example is a strong indicator that he is mentally refusing to consider the challenge. According to your description of the situation, he is and remains unconvinced as to the efficacy of the gospel, unrepentant of his sins, proud of his attitude and unsaved in the extreme.

He cannot make peace with God in his present mental and spiritual state and is therefore in danger of eternal judgment.

There is no kind way to say it and anything less would be a lie to you and a disservice to your husband.

If you believe that there is nothing more you can tell him, there probably isn't. For now.

I would advise that you continue in prayer and in living your life before your husband in righteousness and unrestrained testimony as to your daily walk with Christ. Further attempts at debate may prove counterproductive. For now.

If you are aware that your prayers for him are being heard, then you must wait and watch for a time when the Holy Spirit will begin to work with him. Pride is usually broken by hard times. God may get his attention in that way in order to convince him of his sinful pride and need for divine help. Such times may not be pleasant for either of you. Be patient. For now.

Bide your time and pray. For now.

You are not alone. Ever.

Thank you all for the advice... I don't have much to say, only that your kind responses have given me a lot to think about.

I'm really sorry that I hijacked the thread-- I really did think it related to what you were asking >.< Or perhaps I was projecting.

I think there are hundreds or even thousands of issues that lead people to Christianity, but basically only two reasons for staying Christian: some people are primarily focused on their personal Salvation and Eternal Life, others seem more focused on the Christian Church and community and the life-style model Jesus gave us.
Surely everyone often hears, or feels, the call of God. And I believe that the Holy Spirit will guide each of us, if only we ask. But non-Christians who have some familiarity with the Church have essentially said no--or perhaps, later-- to both of these principals: they say they are not concerned--or don't believe--in Eternal Life, and they will not participate in the Christian life style taught by Jesus.
At the root of both these refusals is often misunderstanding (confusion, ignorance, or bad experience), but quite often the primary cause is vanity. Most educated non-Christians can not accept God's demand for humility, putting God and one's neighbor first. CS Lewis' wonderful--but misleadingly titled-- book, The Great Divorce, is a delightful fantasy about the nature of Heaven--and a very serious but easy to read and enjoyable examination of the psychology that leads many people to reject these two essences of Christianity, and Heaven itself, including some who call themselves Christian and go through many of the motions. I recommend it very strongly and hope those who have read it will comment here.
For my part, I am most strongly drawn to Christianity by the observation and the belief that Jesus intended His Church to be His Kingdom here on earth, and the Joy and Peace He promised are right here for the true Christian, despite our trials and tribulations.

eschator83 said:

I think there are hundreds or even thousands of issues that lead people to Christianity, but basically only two reasons for staying Christian: some people are primarily focused on their personal Salvation and Eternal Life, others seem more focused on the Christian Church and community and the life-style model Jesus gave us.

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Your post is good as far as it goes. I've quoted your first lines here to emphasize a critical problem.

Your entire argument leaves out the action of the Holy Spirit with the single exception of your statement that 'everyone feels .... the Holy Spirit'. That statement is also false. Everyone does not sense the presence of the Holy Spirit. In fact, many have to be educated as to what it means before they can appreciate the Masters touch.

Returning to the single reason for remaining Christian, I am obligated to state here that Christianity is NOT strictly a cerebral exercise. If it were, then that would be sufficient all by itself. However, there is the interaction of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. Christianity is a relationship, not a religion. This is a key point and not one to be emphasized too much.

The NT is full of references to 'Christ in us' and that for good reason. We who have surrendered to God and accepted Christ walk in life together with Him.
He is in us and He will keep us. THAT is why we remain.

[email protected] said:

Your post is good as far as it goes. I've quoted your first lines here to emphasize a critical problem.

Your entire argument leaves out the action of the Holy Spirit with the single exception of your statement that 'everyone feels .... the Holy Spirit'. That statement is also false. Everyone does not sense the presence of the Holy Spirit. In fact, many have to be educated as to what it means before they can appreciate the Masters touch.

Returning to the single reason for remaining Christian, I am obligated to state here that Christianity is NOT strictly a cerebral exercise. If it were, then that would be sufficient all by itself. However, there is the interaction of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. Christianity is a relationship, not a religion. This is a key point and not one to be emphasized too much.

The NT is full of references to 'Christ in us' and that for good reason. We who have surrendered to God and accepted Christ walk in life together with Him.
He is in us and He will keep us. THAT is why we remain.

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It is the preponderence of evidence that this single passage (one only) that Christ is in us, uses the Greek word "en" in the sense of being among.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in (among) you, the hope of glory:

Christ glorified in His resurrected body dwells in the heavens, with His Father, seated at His right hand. His geographical location is clearly stated throughout the Scriptures. The Spirit is not limited to such a confinement, and it is that Spirit that resides in us, not the Christ Himself. I use the following passage to indicate the verity of this conclusion:

1C 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed,

The idea of Christ being bodily in believers is not the testimony of Scripture, but misapprehension of spritual truth. Being "in Christ" is another matter, and there are not less than 88 references to that as being what you may have miscontrued as the "NT is full of references to 'Christ in us'". There is only one passage in fact that says such a thing, and the evidence that it is not so, and mistranslating the sense of the Greek word, en, is overwhelming. This misapprehension has lead to many a false doctrine.

fivesense

fivesense said:

The idea of Christ being bodily in believers is not the testimony of Scripture, but misapprehension of spritual truth. Being "in Christ" is another matter, and there are not less than 88 references to that as being what you may have miscontrued as the "NT is full of references to 'Christ in us'". There is only one passage in fact that says such a thing, and the evidence that it is not so, and mistranslating the sense of the Greek word, en, is overwhelming. This misapprehension has lead to many a false doctrine.

fivesense

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You wanna rephrase that?

It sounds as though you deny that Christ indwells the believer.
Or are we dancing on the head of a pin, making fine points out of a common testimony that believers 'know' Christ.
Are you defining that phrase or are you denying it altogether? Or are you making another point completely?

[email protected] said:

You wanna rephrase that?

It sounds as though you deny that Christ indwells the believer.
Or are we dancing on the head of a pin, making fine points out of a common testimony that believers 'know' Christ.
Are you defining that phrase or are you denying it altogether? Or are you making another point completely?

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Have you completed a search for the declaration of the word of God, seeking the evidence for "Christ in us"? The Holy Spirit of God indwelt our Savior making Him one with His Father. In Him the fulness of the Deity dwelt. For us, the indwelling of Holy Spirit makes us one with the Christ and His God, and it is the earnest of the Spirit that we have obtained. As I have pointed out to you, and apart from human reasoning, there is only one passage that affirms your contention that Christ Himself indwells the believer, and that passage can bear scrutiny and is subject to the whole counsel of God's word. If you would be honest to confirm what I say about this singular passage, this would not be an issue. It is His Spirit that indwells the believer, and it is that which is not to be denied.

fivesense

Our relationship to God the Father is through His Son. His Son, in His glorified body, is seated at the right hand of God in the heavens.

Hb 8:1 . Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Mk 16:19 . So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Eph 4:8-9 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

The Lord resides bodily in the heavens with His Father, and His presence in the saints is through His spirit. As the man, Christ Jesus, He does not occupy human flesh.

Ro 8:9 And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ-this one is not His;

The above passage marks what is in the believer that qualifies him or her as part of the Body of Christ.

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1C 12:12-13 . For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Jn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jn 16:7 . Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

The presence of the Spirit of God in mankind was dependent upon the Lord's departure from the earth. While He is on earth, His spirit remaining in Him could not be imparted, as it is part of Him and cannot be removed. The Holy Spirit of God works through Christ's spirit to remind us of the things He said, and to convict the world of sin and judgment and righteousness. He is the Mediator between God and man.

It is the presence of God's Holy Spirit and the Lord's spirit sent from above, that indwells the believer, not God Himself, not Christ the second Adam, but the Spirit of them both reside in us, making us temples and sanctified vessels before Him in divine service.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

It is not possible for God the Father to dwell in flesh. Neither can the glorified Man, the Christ of God, inhabit sinful beings. It is His spirit that is given to us that allows access to Them.

The whole counsel of the word of God underlines the fact that it is spirit entirely which dwells in us. Christ Jesus cannot be removed from the glory He has obtained through obedience unto death, at His Father's side on His throne of glory. His sacrifice has released Him from being bound in flesh to earthly tabernacles. It is His spirit alone, and His Father's Holy Spirit, that indwell the believer.

Christ is not a person, it is a title, it means anointed. The spirit of the Lord is upon us, and in us, to perform the works of God.

fivesense

fivesense said:

Have you completed a search for the declaration of the word of God, seeking the evidence for "Christ in us"? The Holy Spirit of God indwelt our Savior making Him one with His Father. In Him the fulness of the Deity dwelt. For us, the indwelling of Holy Spirit makes us one with the Christ and His God, and it is the earnest of the Spirit that we have obtained. As I have pointed out to you, and apart from human reasoning, there is only one passage that affirms your contention that Christ Himself indwells the believer, and that passage can bear scrutiny and is subject to the whole counsel of God's word. If you would be honest to confirm what I say about this singular passage, this would not be an issue. It is His Spirit that indwells the believer, and it is that which is not to be denied.

fivesense

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ok then. To continue....

You seem to be saying that Christ Himself does not indwell the believer.
Logical
Instead, the Holy Spirit is doing the indwelling.
Again, logical.

Do I understand your position correctly?

If so, then I must agree that Christ does not BODILY live within anyone and that His spirit/Holy Spirit is that which indwells the believer.

So what is your point? Are we arguing about something we already agree on....and just missing agreement because of language?

the carnal mind is not trained to recieve spiritual things. this we all know, so if i be in christ-and christ be in me-if my words be his words and his words be my words we are one in word ,yet he was the word made flesh, yet he acended up on high to be with the father ,who also is in me, because i am in christ, and christ is in him-.confusing no-. new creatures,born of the spirit children of light empowered to become the sons of GOD. put of the old man put on jesus