Jesus As God

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Beano

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Feb 7, 2008
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Hi guys
my partner Judith is looking into the christian faith and is earnestly seeking for answers, her biggest stumbling block is that she cant see Jesus as God. If anyone has some helpfull scriptures here or insight on this I would be most gratefull. Oh and please pray for her too.
many thanks
kevin
 

brionne

Active Member
May 31, 2010
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Australia
Hi guys
my partner Judith is looking into the christian faith and is earnestly seeking for answers, her biggest stumbling block is that she cant see Jesus as God. If anyone has some helpfull scriptures here or insight on this I would be most gratefull. Oh and please pray for her too.
many thanks
kevin

He did call himself the 'son' of God...perhaps that is why she cant understand how he can be God and God's Son at the same time.

It doesnt make sense to me either. He cant be both.
 

fivesense

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Mar 7, 2010
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It is best to use the Bible references where it says, "Jesus is God". Without the evidence of the Holy Writings, the matter cannot be concluded. Should you find any specific reference to where it is spoken of Jesus being God, please post them for us as well. There is much in the way of reasoning from a human level about the subject, but not much evidence to supply.

fivesense
 

Paul

Member
Aug 19, 2006
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It is best to use the Bible references where it says, "Jesus is God". Without the evidence of the Holy Writings, the matter cannot be concluded. Should you find any specific reference to where it is spoken of Jesus being God, please post them for us as well. There is much in the way of reasoning from a human level about the subject, but not much evidence to supply.

fivesense


Seems like we have had this conversation recently. Beano, If you seriously want to know research the many names of God and the names of Jesus Christ. At His second coming every one will know He is God, and they will bow to Him but at that time it will be too late. They will even confess that He IS God but it will be to late, they will not be able to accept Him as Lord. They will all ready have changed to their spiritual bodies. Some on this forum don't like that but that is the way it is.

I am going to help you research the names:

THE DIVINE NAMES AND TITLES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. Companion Bible Appendix #98

All names and titles used of one Person represent the different relationships which are sustained by Him.
In the New Testament these are more varied, and not less important than those in the Old Testament; and Ap. 4 should be compared with this Appendix.
The following exhibition of them practically embraces all that is necessary to enable the English reader to understand them, and to grasp something of the perfection with which each is used.
The list of the Names, &c., is given according to the common English rendering of the A.V., as being more easy for reference. It does not include "Spirit" or "Holy Spirit" : for which see the separate Appendix, No. 101.
Reference is made, in the notes, to the following divisions and subdivisions :--

I. GOD.
GOD. Gr. Theos. The Greek language, being of human origin, utterly fails (and naturally so) to exhibit the wonderful precision of the Hebrew, inasmuch as the language necessarily reflects, and cannot go beyond the knowledge, or rather the lack of knowledge, of the Divine Being apart from revelation.
i. Theos corresponds, generally, with 'Elohim of the O.T., denoting the Creator (see Ap. 4. I); but it corresponds also with El (Ap. 4. IV), and Eloah (Ap. 4. V). Sometimes it corresponds with Jehovah (who is 'Elohim in Covenant relation), in which case it is printed GOD, as in the Old Testament (both A.V. and R.V.).
1. Theos is used in the N.T. of the Father, as the
revealed God (see John 1:1. Acts 17:24, &c.)
2. It is used of the Son (Matt. 1:23. John 1:1; 20:28,
&c. Rom. 9:5. 2Pet. 1:1. 1John 5:20). Cp.
Col. 2:9 and 2Pet. 1:3, 4.
3. It is used of the Holy Spirit (Acts 5 v. 3, compared
with v. 4).
4. It is used generically, as in John 10:34. Acts 12:22.
2Cor. 4:4. Phil. 3:19, &c.
5. It is used of false gods, as in Acts 7:43, &c.; and
is printed "god" as in the O.T.
ii. Cognate with Theos, there are three other words to be noted :
1. Theotes, rendered "Deity", and used of Christ.
Occurs only in Col. 2:9, and has relation to the
Godhead personally; while
2. Theiotes, rendered "Deity" also, is Deity in the
abstract. Occurs only in Rom. 1:20.
3. Theios, rendered "Divine", and is used of Christ.
Occurs only in 2Pet. 1:3, 4; and, with the Article,
in Acts 17:29, where it is rendered "Godhead".
Gr. = that which [is] Divine.

II. I AM.
Used by Christ of Himself, in John 8:58. See note on Ex. 3:14.

III. FATHER.
FATHER. Gr. Pater. Expresses relationship, the correlative of which is "son". When used of man it not only denotes parentage, but it sometimes has the wider meaning of "ancestor", "founder", or a "senior" (as in 1John 2:13, 14); also the author or source of anything (John 8:44. Heb. 12:9); and expresses a spiritual relationship, as in 1Cor. 4:15.
When used of God it denotes His relationship to His "beloved Son"; and to those ("sons") who have been begotten (not "born", see note on Matt. 1:1) into a new creation.
It implies "sons", not "offspring", as in Acts 17:28, 29. These were "offspring", and were existing (Gr. huparcho), as such, according to nature, on the ground of creation; not "sons" as being "begotten" into a new creation.

IV. ALMIGHTY.
ALMIGHTY. Gr. Pantokrator. This title belongs to the same God, as Creator, but expresses His relationship to all He has created, by the exercise of His power over "all the works of His hands". It occurs only in 2Cor. 6:18. Rev. 1:8; 4:8; 11:17; 15:3; 16:7, 14; 19:6, 15; 21:22.

V. POTENTATE.
POTENTATE. Gr. Dunastes = a mighty Prince, or Ruler (cp. Engl. "dynasty"). Used of God, only in 1Tim. 6:15. Elsewhere used, only twice, of earthly rulers, in Luke 1:52 (generally), and of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8:27.

VI. LORD.
This is the rendering of two Greek words : i. Kurios, and ii. Despotes; and one Aramaic, iii. Rabboni.
i. Kurios. Kurios means "owner" (and is so translated in Luke 19:33). It expresses the authority and lordship arising from and pertaining to ownership. Hence, while it is used of each Person of the Trinity, it is similarly used of the lower and human relationship of "master". Cp. Luke 19:33 and see below a. 4.
So much depends on the presence or absence of the Greek Article, when used of the Divine relationship that these are carefully distinguished in the subdivisions below.
For obvious reasons the four Gospels have been treated, below, apart from the other books of the N.T.
a. In the Four Gospels.
1. Used of Jehovah (Ap. 4. II), and printed "LORD" throughout.
A. With the Article (ho Kurios).
a. In quotations from the O.T. it occurs four (*1) times :
in Matt. 1:22; 2:15; 5:33; 22:44-.
b. In other connexions it occurs fourteen times : once in
Matt. (9:38); once in Mark (5:19); twelve times in
Luke (1:6, 9, 15, 25, 28, 46; 2:15, 22, -23, 38; 10:2;
20:42-).
B. Without the Article (Kurios).
a. In quotations from the O.T. it occurs twenty-nine times :
eight times in Matt. (3:3; 4:7, 10; 21:9, 42; 22:37; 23:39
27:10); eight times in Mark (1:3; 11:9, 10; 12:11, 29, 29
30, 36-); nine times in Luke (3:4; 4:8, 12, 18, 19; 10:27;
13:35; 19:38; 20:37); four times in John (1:23; 12:13, 38,
38).
b. In other connexions twenty-four times : six times in Matt.
(1:20, 24; 2:13, 19; 11:25; 28:2); once in Mark (13:20);
seventeen times in Luke (1:11, 16, 17, 32, 38, 45, 48, 66,
68, 76; 2:9, 23-, 24, 26, 39; 5:17; 10:21).

2. Used by Christ of Himself.
A. With the Article (ho Kurios).
a. In direct reference : six times (Matt. 21:3; 24:42; Mark 11:3;
Luke 19:31; John 13:13, 14).
b. In indirect reference : twice (Matt. 22:-44; Luke 20:-42).
B. Without the Article (Kurios).
a. In direct reference : eleven times (Matt. 7:21, 21, 22, 22; 12:8;
25:37, 44; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5, 46, 46).
b. In indirect reference : four times (Matt. 22:43, 45; Mark 12:37;
Luke 20:44).
3. Used of Christ by others.
A. By His disciples : fifty-nine times (Matt. 8:21, 25; 13:51; 14:28,
30; 16:22; 17:4; 18:21; 26:22; [not one in Mark (*2)] Luke
1:43; 5:8; 9:54, 57, 59, 61; 10:17, 40; 11:1; 12:41; 13:23;
17:37; 19:8, 34; 22:31, 33, 38, 49; 23:42; 24:34; John 6:68;
9:36, 38; 11:3, 12, 21, 27, 32, 34, 39; 13:6, 9, 25, 36, 37;
14:5, 8, 22; 20:2, 13, 18, 20, 25, 28; 21:7, 15, 16, 17, 20, 21).
B. By others than His disciples.
a. Rendered "Lord" eighteen times : twelve in Matt. (8:2, 6,
8; 9:28; 15:22, 25, 27-; 17:15; 20:30, 31, 38; 28:6); only
twice in Mark (*3) (7:28; 9:24); four times in Luke (2:11;
5:12; 7:6; 18:41); twice in John (6:34; 8:11).
b. Rendered "Sir" six times : John 4:11, 15, 19, 49; 5:7; 20:15
(Mary, addressing the supposed gardener).
c. By the Holy Spirit frequently in the narratives of the
Evangelists.
4. Used of others than Christ.
A. With the Article (ho Kurios), emphasizing ownership. Occurs
forty-two times : twenty-one times in Matt. (10:24, 25; 15:-27;
18:25, 27, 31, 32, 34; 20:8; 21:40; 24:45, 46, 48, 50; 25:18, 19,
21, 23, 23, 26); twice in Mark (12:9; 13:35); sixteen times in
Luke (12:36, 37, -42, 43, 45, 46, 47; 14:21, 23; 16:3, 5, 5, 8;
19:33; 20:13, 15); three times in John (13:16; 15:15, 20).
B. Without the Article (Kurios). Generally in courtesy, emphasizing
superior relationship. Occ. nineteen times. Rendered "Lord"
fourteen times (Matt. 18:26; 25:11, 11, 29, 22, 24. Luke 13:8,
25, 25; 14:22; 19:16, 18, 20, 25); "Master" twice (Matt. 6:24.
Luke 16:13); "Sir" four times (Matt. 13:27; 21:30; 27:63. John
12:21).
b. In the other books of the New Testament.
1. Used of Jehovah (Ap. 4. II), and printed "LORD" throughout;
as in the O.T.
A. With the Article (ho Kurios).
a. In quotations from the O.T. Occurs ten times (Acts 2:25, 34;
4:26; 7:33; 13:47; 15:17. Rom. 15:11. 1Cor. 10:26, 28.
Heb. 8:11).
b. In other connexions : Acts 2:47. 2Cor. 10:18. Heb. 8:2; 12:14.
James 5:-11. 2Pet. 3:9, 15. Jude 5. Rev. 11:15, 21, 22.
B. Without the Article (Kurios).
a. In quotations from, or references to, the O.T. : Acts 2:20, 21;
3:22; 7:30, 31, 37, 49. Rom. 4:8; 9:28, 29; 10:13, 16; 11:3,
34; 12:19; 14:11. 1Cor. 1:31; 2:16; 3:20; 14:21. 2Cor. 6:17,
18; 10:17. Heb. 1:10; 7:21; 8:8, 9, 10; 10:16, 30, 30; 12:5, 6;
13:6. 1Pet. 1:25; 3:12, 12.
b. In other connexions : Acts 1:24; 2:39; 5:9, 19; 17:24. 2Cor.
3:16. James 5:4, 10, 11-. 2Pet. 2:9, 11; 3:8, 10. Jude 9:14.
Rev. 4:8; 11:17; 15:3, 4; 16:5, 7; 18:8; 19:1, 6; 22:5, 6.
2. Used of Christ.
A. With the Article, as in Acts 2:-34. 2Cor. 3:17-, &c.
B. Without the Article, as in 1Cor. 8:6, &c.
ii. Despotes. Like Kurios (i, above) it denotes owner; but it includes (when used of God) the exercise of more absolute, unlimited and despotic authority and power in heaven and on earth. It is derived from deo = to bind, and pous = the foot. It occurs ten times in the New Testament, and is rendered five times "Lord"; and five times "Master" (see No. XIV. 2, below).
1. Used of Jehovah (Ap. 4. II) three times (Luke 2:29. Acts 4:24.
Rev. 6:10).
2. Used of Christ, twice (2Pet. 2:1. Jude 4).
iii. Rabboni. Aramaic for the Heb. Rabbi = my Master, or Teacher. See Ap. 94. II. 3. Occurs twice, once translated "Lord" (Mark 10:51); and once transliterated "Rabboni" (John 20:16).

VII. EMMANUEL.
EMMANUEL. Heb. 'Immanuel = God (El) with us (Isa. 7:14; 8:8). Used of Christ, Matt. 1:23, being another proof of His Deity (see No. Vi. i. a. 2. A. a. b.).

VIII. MESSIAH.
This is the Greek transliteration of the Heb. Mashiah, with the same meaning, Anointed. Used twice of Christ (John 1:41; 4:25).

IX. CHRIST.
This is the Greek translation of the Heb. Mashiah, See No. VIII. Christos has the same meaning, from chrio, to anoint. Hence, the Noun is used of and for the Messiah, and in the Gospels should always be translated "Messiah", as well as in the Acts, and sometimes in the later books of the New Testament.

X. JESUS.
Iesous is the same as the Heb. Jehoshua, or the abbreviated form Joshua (cp. Heb. 4:8), and means [the] Salvation of jehovah, or Jehovah [the] Saviour.
The name "Jesus" expresses the relation of Jehovah to Him in Incarnation, by which "He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross" (Phil. 2:8); Who, being God, did not deem His glory a thing not to be thus relinquished (see note on "robbery", Phil. 2:6). The name "Jesus" is the name associated with "the shame" which He endured in order to "save His People from their sins" (Matt. 1:21). His People therefore never addressed Him as "Jesus", but always as "Master" (No. XIV. v) or "Lord" (VI, i, a, 3). (John 13:13, 14. Luke 6:46), and so should all His people to-day; not following the example of demons (Matt. 8:29), or of His enemies, who irreverently called Him "Jesus".

XI. JESUS CHRIST.
In the combination of these two names, the former is emphatic by its position, the second being subsidiary and explanatory. In the Gospels it means "Jesus the Messiah". In the Epistles it means Jesus Who humbled Himself but is now exalted and glorified as Christ. Care should be taken to note the various readings.

XII. CHRIST JESUS.
This is the converse of "Jesus Christ" (XI) and denotes the now exalted One, Who once humbled Himself.

XIII. CHRIST THE LORD.
This is the Heb. Mashiah Jehovah = Jehovah's Anointed, as in 1Sam. 24:6. Occ. only in Luke 2:11; and with the Article = the Anointed of Jehovah, Luke 2:26.

XIV. MASTER.
This title is the translation of eight distinct Greek words, which are all carefully distinguished in the notes.
i. Kurios (the same as No. VI. i. a. 2, 3, above). Is used of the Lord in Mark 13:35. Eph. 6:9, and Col. 4:1. Used of others (Matt. 6:24. Luke 16:13). See Vi. i. a. 4. B., above.
ii. Despotes, see No. VI, ii, above. It occurs ten times, and is rendered five times "Lord" (see VI. ii); and five times "Master", once of the Divine Master (2Tim. 2:21); and four times of human masters.
iii. Oikodespotes = master of a house; house-master. It occurs twelve times, and is used in Parables by the Lord of Himself seven times, and of others thrice : it is rendered four times "house-holder"; five times "goodman of the house"; and three times "master" (Matt. 10:25. Luke 13:25; 14:21). Twice it is used of others than Christ (Mark 14:14. Luke 21:11).
iv. Epistates = Commander. Occurs five times as addressed to the Lord (Luke 5:5; 8:24, 24, 45; 9:33, 49; 17:13).
v. Didaskalos = Teacher, or as we should say "Doctor". Occurs fifty-eight times, and is twice explained as meaning "Rabbi". See No. vii, p. 144.
1. The Lord was addressed as Didaskalos ( = Teacher),
rendered "Master" thrity-one times; six times in Matthew
(8:18; 12:38; 19:16; 22:16, 25, 36); ten times in Mark
(4:38; 9:17, 38; 10:17, 20, 35; 12:14, 19, 32; 13:1);
twelve times in Luke (3:12; 7:40; 9:38; 10:25; 11:45;
12:13; 18:18; 19:39; 20:21, 28, 39; 21:7); three times
in John (1:39; 8:4; 20:16).
2. The Lord spoke of as "Master" by Himself eight times :
three times in Matthew (10:24, 25; 26:18); once in Mark
(14:14); thrice in Luke (6:40, 40; 22:11); once in John
(13:14).
3. The Lord spoken of as "Master" by others than Himself six
times : twice in Matthew (9:11; 17:24); once in Mark (5:35);
once in Luke (8:49); twice in John (11:28; 13:13).
4. Spoken of others than the Lord twice, and rendered "master"
in John 3:10. Jas. 3:1. In other renderings once "doctor"
(Luke 2:46), and ten times "teacher", once of the Lord
(John 3:2), and nine times of human teachers (Acts 13:1.
Rom. 2:20. 1Cor. 12:28, 29. Eph. 4:11. 1Tim. 2:7.
2Tim. 1:11; 4:3. Heb. 5:12).
iv. Kathegetes = A Guide or Leader. Used of the Lord by Himself three times (Matt. 23:8, 10, 10).
vii. Rabbi. The Hebrew term for "my Teacher", transliterated into Greek. Twice explained as meaning the same as the Gr. Didaskalos (see XIV. v, p. 143). Occurs seventeen times, and used as follows :
1. The Lord addressed as "Rabbi" five times (John 1:39, 49;
3:2, 26; 6:25). Rendered "Master" nine times (Matt.
26:25, 49. Mark 9:5; 11:21; 14:45, 46. John 4:31; 9:2;
11:8).
2. Used of others than the Lord four times (Matt. 23:7, 7, 8.
John 3:26).
viii. Rabboni. Aramaic for Rabbi (see Ap. 94. III. 38). Occurs twice, once transliterated (John 20:16); and once translated "Lord" (Mark 10:51).

XV. THE SON OF GOD.
This title expresses the relation of the Son to the Father (Matt. 1:20. Luke 1:31, 35); and of all those who are begotten of God (see note on Matt. 1:1. 1John 3:1).
It differs therefore from the relationship expressed by "the Son of man", which relates to "dominion" in the earth (see XVI, below).
As the Son of God, Christ is "the heir of all things" (Heb. 1:2), and is invested with "all power", and is "the Resurrection and the Life" (John 11:25), having power to raise the dead (John 5:25). As "the Son of man", all judgment is committed to Him (John 5:27) in the earth. See on No. XVI, below.

XVI. THE SON OF MAN.
This title, when used of Christ, always has the Article; and the word for man is anthropos (see Ap. 123, I).
When used of a human being, as in Ezekiel, it never has the Article (see notes on Ps. 8:4, and Ezek. 2:1).
To the "first man, Adam" was given dominion over the works of the Creator (Gen. 1:26). Through the Fall (Gen. 3), this dominion was forfeited, and lost, and is now in abeyance; no one son of Adam having any right to universal dominion. Hence, all the chaos, "unrest", and conflicts between men and nations, which must continue until He shall come Whose right it is to rule in the earth (Ezek. 21:27). The great enemy, who wrought all the mischief at the Fall, has tried, from time to time, to exercise this authority by setting up some human head. He tried Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander the Great, and others, and in later days Napoleon; but he will finally succeed for a brief period with the Antichrist, until "the second man", "the last Adam" (1Cor. 15:45), "the Son of Man", to Whom all dominion in the earth has, in the counsels of God, been given, shall take unto Him His great power and reign.
All this and more is contained in His title as "the Son of man". Its first occurrences is in Psalm 8, where in verses 1 and 8 His connection with the "earth" is proclaimed; and "dominion" over it is given to Him. It denotes Him Who is "the heir of all things", in virtue of which all things shall one day be put under His feet. "But now we see not yet all things put under Him. But we see Jesus, Who was made a little lower than the angels", humbling Himself unto death, even the death of the Cross (cp. Heb. 2:8, 9).
In support of this, the occurrences and distribution of this title in the N.T. are full of significance and instruction.
(1) As to the occurrences. We find the expression eighty-eight times : Matt. 8:20; 9:6; 10:23; 11:19; 12:8, 32, 40; 13:37, 41; 16:13, 27, 28; 17:9, 12, 22; 18:11; 19:28; 20:18, 28; 24:27, 30, 30 37, 39, 44; 25:13, 31; 26:2, 24, 24, 45, 64. Mark 2:10, 28; 8:31, 38; 9:9, 12, 31; 10:33, 45; 13:26; 14:21, 21, 41, 62. Luke 5:24; 6:5, 22; 7:34; 9:22, 26, 44, 56, 58; 11:30; 12:8, 10, 40; 17:22, 24, 26, 30; 18:8, 31; 19:10; 21:27, 36; 22:22, 48, 69; 24:7. John 1:51; 3:13, 14; 5:27; 6:27, 53, 62; 8:27; 12:23, 34, 34; 13:31. Acts 7:56. Heb. 2:6 (*4). Rev. 1:13; 14:14. On John 9:35 see note there.
The first is in Matt. 8:20, where the first thing stated of, and by, the One Who humbled Himself is that in this same earth "the Son of man had not where to lay His head."
The second, in like manner, is connected with the earth, and shows that He was God, as well as Man, having "authority on earth to forgive sins" (Matt. 9:6); and so the order of the occurrences may be carried out.
Note, in this connection, the contrast between the relationship to mankind of the Lord, as "the Son of God", and as "the Son of man" in John 5:25-27. Cp. Acts 10:40-42; 17:31.
(2) As to the distribution of this title : our of the whole number (88), no less than 84 are in the Four Gospels, which contain the record of His coming for this special purpose; and of His rejection. They are all used by the Lord of Himself.
After these 84 occurrences, we have one in the Acts (7:56) where Stephen sees Him "standing" as though not yet "set down", and waiting to be "sent" according to the promise of Jehovah by Peter in Acts 3:20 (cp. Heb. 10:13); and two in the Apocalypse (Rev. 1:13 and 14:14), where He comes to eject the usurper, and reign in righteousness over a restored earth. Heb. 2:6 (*4) is a quotation from Ps. 8, which can only be realized by Him.
This distribution of the title shows us that it has nothing whatever to do with "the Church of God"; and that those who belong to it have no relation to the Lord Jesus as "the Son of man". They stand related to Him as "the Son of God".
The distribution between the four separate Gospels is equally significant. In Matthew it occurs 32 times. Matt. 8:20 is the first occurrence in the New Testament, and it is interesting to contrast it with the last occurrence (Rev. 14:14). In the first He had "not where to lay His head", but in the last that head has on it "a golden crown", and in His hands is seen "a sharp sickle". With this He reaps in judgment the harvest of the earth, for the time to reap it will then have come. This is emphasized by the word "earth" being 6 times repeated in the verses 15, 16, 18, 19.
In Mark it occurs 14 times, which is twice seven; the two of testimony, and the seven of spiritual perfection of Jehovah's Servant.
In Luke it occurs 26 times.
In John it occurs 12 times, the number which stands associated with Divine governmental perfection. (See Ap. 10.)
Similarly significant are the first and last occurrences in the Four Gospels respectively : the first being in connection with the humiliation of "the Son of man", and the last with His glorification. Cp. Matt. 8:20 with 26:64; Mark 2:10 with 14:62; Luke 5:24 with 24:7; and John 3:13, 14 with 13:31.
Thus, while as "the Son of God" He is "the Heir of all things" (Heb. 1:2) as "the Son of man" He is the Heir to that dominion in the earth which was entrusted to the first man, and forfeited by him.

XVII. THE SON OF ABRAHAM (Matt. 1:1).
Expresses the relation of the Son of man, as being heir to the land given to Abraham (Gen. 15:18-21).

XVIII. THE SON OF DAVID (Matt. 1:1. Luke 1:32, &c.).
Expresses His relationship, as being the Heir to David's throne (2Sam. 7:12-16. Isa. 11:1. Acts 2:29-32; 13:33-37. Rev. 5:5; 22:16).

(*1) These numbers refer to the Received Greek Text. In some cases there are various readings, but in most of them the difference consists in the omission of the article. Any important variations are referred to in the notes.
(*2) Because, in Mark, the presentation of the Lord is as "Jehovah's Servant"; and a servant is not usually addressed as Lord. See notes on p. 1381. This is not a peculiarity of Mark, but shows the accuracy and perfection of this presentation by the Holy Spirit.
(*3) Once by a Gentile, the other being omitted by the Critical texts (though not by the Syr.).
(*4) The reference in Heb. 2:6 is a quotation from Ps. 8:4, and refers to "the first man", Adam; and only by application to the Lord.
 

Simpleman

New Member
Aug 27, 2010
34
1
0
Hi guys
my partner Judith is looking into the christian faith and is earnestly seeking for answers, her biggest stumbling block is that she cant see Jesus as God. If anyone has some helpfull scriptures here or insight on this I would be most gratefull. Oh and please pray for her too.
many thanks
kevin


I don’t see this as a stumbling block, I have faith in Jesus Christ, I see him as my savoir, yet I do not recognize him as God. I recognise him by what he say he is the Son of God.

Let's look at one or two passages of text and ask ourselves a couple of questions.

(1) Rev 1:1 “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him” Question : If Jesus is God why would he give himself a revelation?

(2) 1 Cor :15 24-28 “Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all”

Question : If Jesus is God in what way does he hand over the kingdom to God, and how does he become subject to the Father if they are co-equal as Trinitarians maintain?



 

veteran

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I don’t see this as a stumbling block, I have faith in Jesus Christ, I see him as my savoir, yet I do not recognize him as God. I recognise him by what he say he is the Son of God.

Let's look at one or two passages of text and ask ourselves a couple of questions.

(1) Rev 1:1 “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him” Question : If Jesus is God why would he give himself a revelation?

(2) 1 Cor :15 24-28 “Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all”

Question : If Jesus is God in what way does he hand over the kingdom to God, and how does he become subject to the Father if they are co-equal as Trinitarians maintain?


Firstly, Christ Jesus DID declare that He is GOD. That's why the scribes and Pharisees picked up stones to stone Him per the John 8 Scripture, because He said, "Before Abraham was, I am."

The "I AM" is the Sacred Name of YHVH. Those scribes and Pharisees knew very well Christ declared Himself as GOD, The I AM.

John 8:57-59
57 Then said the Jews unto Him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
59 Then took they up stones to cast at Him: but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(KJV)

Exod 3:14
14 And God said unto Moses, "I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
(KJV)


HOW can anyone claim Christ Jesus as The Saviour and not understand that He is God come in the flesh? That's what's puzzling to me.

Basically, GOD Himself came in the flesh to suffer upon the cross to defeat death, being Just in destroying it forever (Heb.2:14). He did that by sending Himself as The Saviour through the incarnation of Jesus Christ, His ONLY Begotten Son. Christ Jesus as God The Son is in relationship to His death upon the cross, and hence He is The Saviour Which ALL must go through to have eternal Life. That's why Christ Jesus ONLY is our Mediator to The Father, because The Son IS The Perfect Sacrifice for sin, for one and all time, our Redeemer.

Without GOD coming to die on the cross through His Son Christ Jesus, what else, or who else, could ever be a substitute? Could the sacrifice of animals ever given eternal Life? No. Could ascetic mystics, sorcerers, witchcrafts, spiritists, or any pagan worship give us eternal Life? No. Can anyone except GOD Himself give us eternal Life? No. It's as simple as that. If Christ Jesus were not God come in the flesh, then we have no Salvation unto eternal Life, for man cannot do it of himself. Only GOD can give it. And He chose to do it by sacrificing Himself upon the cross by being born through woman's womb.

I Jn 2:1-2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
(KJV)

Makes me wonder what preachers today are asking the believer what he or she believes before being baptized, especially if they haven't understood this simple matter of Who The Saviour is!




 

fivesense

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Firstly, Christ Jesus DID declare that He is GOD. That's why the scribes and Pharisees picked up stones to stone Him per the John 8 Scripture, because He said, "Before Abraham was, I am."
The "I AM" is the Sacred Name of YHVH. Those scribes and Pharisees knew very well Christ declared Himself as GOD, The I AM.
John 8:57-59
57 Then said the Jews unto Him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
59 Then took they up stones to cast at Him: but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(KJV)
Exod 3:14
14 And God said unto Moses, "I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
(KJV)
HOW can anyone claim Christ Jesus as The Saviour and not understand that He is God come in the flesh? That's what's puzzling to me.

Basically, GOD Himself came in the flesh to suffer upon the cross to defeat death, being Just in destroying it forever (Heb.2:14). He did that by sending Himself as The Saviour through the incarnation of Jesus Christ, His ONLY Begotten Son. Christ Jesus as God The Son is in relationship to His death upon the cross, and hence He is The Saviour Which ALL must go through to have eternal Life. That's why Christ Jesus ONLY is our Mediator to The Father, because The Son IS The Perfect Sacrifice for sin, for one and all time, our Redeemer.
Without GOD coming to die on the cross through His Son Christ Jesus, what else, or who else, could ever be a substitute? Could the sacrifice of animals ever given eternal Life? No. Could ascetic mystics, sorcerers, witchcrafts, spiritists, or any pagan worship give us eternal Life? No. Can anyone except GOD Himself give us eternal Life? No. It's as simple as that. If Christ Jesus were not God come in the flesh, then we have no Salvation unto eternal Life, for man cannot do it of himself. Only GOD can give it. And He chose to do it by sacrificing Himself upon the cross by being born through woman's womb.
I Jn 2:1-2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
(KJV)
Makes me wonder what preachers today are asking the believer what he or she believes before being baptized, especially if they haven't understood this simple matter of Who The Saviour is!

1C 8:6 yet to us is one God, the Father, of whom are the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are the all things, and we through Him;

Eph 4:6 (there is)one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in you all,;

1Ti 2:5 for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jn 20:17..., and say to them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and to your God.'

Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of the glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the recognition of him,

Jn 8:18 I am one who is testifying of myself, and the Father who sent me doth testify of me.'

Jn 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

You have no record of Jesus ever saying "I am God". He had a God, the Father. His Father does not have a God, for He is the only True God. The Creator, YHWH, emptied Himself of being in the FORM of God, in order to become fashioned as a man. His glory with His Father as the Creator of all things was discarded for our sakes.

YHWH, the I AM of the "O.T." is the logos, the Christ, the visible image of the invisible God. Without the Logos of God, nothing was made that was made. The Son unfolded and declared to us Who this One God is, His Father, and never pointed to Himself as being God. Son of God? Scripture cannot be broken. All who are the faith of Christ are sons of God. Does that association make us the One True God also?

In the volume of the book, it is written of Him. It is a story of His affairs with mankind from the beginning, the alpha and omega. The First-born of all creation, Who has been God's mouthpiece and creative presence from the start. He is the Mediator and always points to His Father.

Jn 5:21 'For, as the Father doth raise the dead, and doth make alive, so also the Son doth make alive whom he willeth;
1C 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

He was made a life-giving spirit, and prior to His exaltation, He was not so. Though He had power from His Father to raise the dead, it was not for the eons, for all those whom He raised, died once again. They did not receive immortality and incorruption at His hand. That is yet to come. That is our expectation.

AV Jn 5:19-21 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

fivesense
 

Simpleman

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Firstly, Christ Jesus DID declare that He is GOD. That's why the scribes and Pharisees picked up stones to stone Him per the John 8 Scripture, because He said, "Before Abraham was, I am."

The "I AM" is the Sacred Name of YHVH. Those scribes and Pharisees knew very well Christ declared Himself as GOD, The I AM.

John 8:57-59
57 Then said the Jews unto Him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
59 Then took they up stones to cast at Him: but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(KJV)

Exod 3:14
14 And God said unto Moses, "I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
(KJV)

“I am”: Given the context of the verse Jesus was not referring to his identity but rather his age, an age before time began. There is no scriptural justification to link John 8:58 with Exodus 13:13, 14.

"Ehyeh asher ehyeh--the self-existent and eternal God; a declaration of the unity and spirituality of the Divine Nature, the exact opposite of all the forms of idolatry, human, animal, and celestial that prevailed everywhere else. [It is]...however, not merely a philosophical phrase; the emphasis is on the active manifestation of the Divine existence....To the Israelites in bondage, the meaning would be, 'Although He has not yet displayed His power towards you, he will do so'....The answer which Moses receives in these words is thus equivalent to, 'I shall save in the way I shall save.' It is to assure the Israelites of the fact of deliverance, but does not disclose the manner. It must suffice the Israelites to learn that 'Ehyeh, I will be (with you) hath sent me unto you." (Hertz, p. 215)

“A. S. Lewis “The Four Gospels” According to the Sinaitic Palimpsest: “He said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I have been.”

The Twentieth Century New Testament: “‘Believe me,’ Jesus replied, ‘before Abraham was born I was already what I am.’”

G. M. Lamsa’s The Modern New Testament: “Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was born, I was.”

Jas. Murdock’s The Syriac New Testament: “Jesus said to them: Verily, verily, I say to you, That before Abraham existed, I was.”

F. Pfaefflin’s Das Neue Testament (German): “Jesus: ‘Before there was an Abraham, I was already there [war ich schon da]!’”

C. Stage’s Das Neue Testament (German): “Jesus said to them: ‘Truly, truly, I say to you: Before Abraham was born, I was [war ich].’”

Nácar Colunga’s Nuevo Testamento (Spanish): “Jesus answered: ‘In truth, in truth, I say to you: Before Abraham was born, I was [era yo].’”

F. Delitzsch’s Hebrew New Testament and that by Salkinson-Ginsburg both have the verb in the perfect form “I have been” (haiithi) instead of in the imperfect form”





 

veteran

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What confusion!

"Ehyeh asher ehyeh" - is the declaration Christ used for Himself as GOD. Those blind Jews understood that's what He said.

John 8:53
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest Thou Thyself?
(KJV)

Christ's response of "Before Abraham was, I am" was His answer, a direct declaration of His Existence in The Godhead from eternal.


John 8:58
[Before Abraham was] Before Abraham lived.

[I am] The expression I am, though in the present tense, is clearly designed to refer to a past time. Thus, in Ps 90:2, "From everlasting to everlasting thou art God." Applied to God, it denotes continued existence without respect to time, so far as he is concerned. We divide time into tho past, the present, and the future. The expression, applied to God, denotes that he does not measure his existence in this manner, but that the word by which we express the present denotes his continued and unchanging existence. Hence, he assumes it as his name, "I AM," and "I AM THAT I AM,"
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1997 by Biblesoft)

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, [prin (NT:4250) Abraam (NT:11) genesthai (NT:1096) - 'Before Abraham came into existence'] I am, [egoo (NT:1473) eimi (NT:1510)]. The difference between the two verbs applied to Abraham and Himself, in this great saying, is to be carefully observed. 'Before Abraham was brought into being, I exist. The statement, therefore, is not that Christ came into existence before Abraham did-as Arians affirm is the meaning: it is that he never came into being at all, but existed before Abraham had a being; which, of course, was as much as to say that He existed before all creation, or from eternity, as in John 1:1. In that sense, beyond all doubt, the Jews understood Him, as will appear from what follows
(from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1997 by Biblesoft)


I see now, that there ARE remnants of the blind scribes and Pharisees on this Forum afterall. I had wondered, now I doubt no more.
 

Xanderoc

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Hi guys
my partner Judith is looking into the christian faith and is earnestly seeking for answers, her biggest stumbling block is that she cant see Jesus as God. If anyone has some helpfull scriptures here or insight on this I would be most gratefull. Oh and please pray for her too.
many thanks
kevin

Here is a link explaining a Lesson on who Jesus is My link
 

veteran

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Beano,

The only way to understand this matter is by getting into God's Word from Genesis through Revelation and asking The LORD to reveal it.

Isa 43:10-13
10 Ye are My witnesses, saith the LORD, and My servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He: before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour.
12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are My witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
13 Yea, before the day was I am Me; and there is none that can deliver out of My hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
(KJV)

Isa 45:15
15 Verily thou art a God that hidest Thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
(KJV)

Isa 45:21-23
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside Me.
22 Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
(KJV)

Apostle Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5 that we all must appear before the judgment seat of Christ. In that Isaiah verse, Who is saying that, The Father or The Son? The answer is both, for they both are One. The only begotton Son Title was only for God's coming in the flesh as Jesus.


Hosea 13:4
4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but Me: for there is no saviour beside Me.
(KJV)

There is only one God The Saviour, not two or three or more.


The reason it's very important to understand this, is because of how Satan wants us to think that we can become our 'own' Christ. That's actually what the origin of all the false teachings about becoming 'a Christ' is about. The occultists are taught that Jesus was not God, but that He simply connected to a force they call Christ Consciousness, or Cosmic Consciousness. They teach the lie that all the main religious starters did the same, connected to an invisible force they claim is God. In that sense, they are actually teaching Satan's lie to Adam and Eve in God's Garden that they could become 'gods'.

That is why monks in the far east practice asceticism, for they think through eventual mastery over this life by attoning to a force in the spiritual realm will eventually release them from this world, to raise them to the heavenly plane as little gods. They seek perfection of their own through works. And that's why they refuse to believe that Jesus Christ God come in the flesh as The Saviour. It would mean they're wasting their time trying to be their own saviour.
 

TexUs

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Wow, lots of confusing replies for someone seemingly seeking a more simple answer????
OP... Here's my answer.

John 1:1.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

So, who is the "Word? Drop to verse 14:
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.


And verse 18:
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.




OP... That's scriptural proof of the Son being God... This is, by far, not the only passage, but it is a very simple and direct passage. I encourage you to read the entirety of it for yourself!


Edit- Another reference, as always... Read the passage for yourself. But head over to Colossians 1, another direct and simple passage that speaks of his supremacy over all things.
v15: The Son is the image of the invisible God
v19: For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him
 

Guestman

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Hi guys
my partner Judith is looking into the christian faith and is earnestly seeking for answers, her biggest stumbling block is that she cant see Jesus as God. If anyone has some helpfull scriptures here or insight on this I would be most gratefull. Oh and please pray for her too.
many thanks
kevin

The churches of Christendom have taught that Jesus is God since the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. and at the Council of Constantinople in 381 C.E. that the holy spirit was called "Lord" and "life-giver" One year later, in 382 C.E., another synod met in Constantinople and affirmed the full divinity of the holy spirit. That same year, before a council in Rome, Pope Damasus presented a collection of teachings to be condemned by the church. The document, called the Tome of Damasus, included the following statements:

“If anyone denies that the Father is eternal, that the Son is eternal, and that the Holy Spirit is eternal: he is a heretic.”
“If anyone denies that the Son of God is true God, just as the Father is true God, having all power, knowing all things, and equal to the Father: he is a heretic.”
“If anyone denies that the Holy Spirit . . . is true God . . . has all power and knows all things, . . .  he is a heretic.”
“If anyone denies that the three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are true persons, equal, eternal, containing all things visible and invisible, that they are omnipotent, . . .  he is a heretic.”
“If anyone says that [the Son who was] made flesh was not in heaven with the Father while he was on earth: he is a heretic.”
“If anyone, while saying that the Father is God and the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God, . . . does not say that they are one God, . . . he is a heretic."

From the picture of the Trinity doctrine that appeared after the Council of Constantinople in 381 C.E., from the Tome of Damasus in 382 C.E., from the Athanasian Creed that came some time later, and from other documents, it can clearly be determined what Christendom means by the Trinity doctrine. It includes the following definite ideas:

1. There are said to be three divine persons—the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit—in the Godhead.
2. Each of these separate persons is said to be eternal, none coming before or after the other in time.
3. Each is said to be almighty, with none greater or lesser than the other.
4. Each is said to be omniscient, knowing all things.
5. Each is said to be true God.
6. However, it is said that there are not three Gods but only one God.

Clearly the Trinity doctrine is a complex set of ideas including at least the above vital elements and involving even more, as revealed when the details are examined. But if we consider only the above basic ideas, it is apparent that if any are removed, what remains is no longer Christendom’s Trinity. To have the complete picture, all these pieces must be present. But is the trinity true ? Does the Bible support the belief that "the Father is God and the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God" ? In a word, No.

What is the Scriptural evidence for this ? Consider what Jesus said on several occasions. For example, Jesus when asked by James and John's mother if her two sons could sit down on each side of him in his kingdom, Jesus replied that "this sitting down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”(Matt 20:23) If Jesus is God, would he have deferred the sitting down in his kingdom to his Father ? No. If Jesus is God, would he even have a Father, since according to the trinitarian doctrine that he is "eternal" ? No. Jesus consistently called upon and prayed to his Father, such as at Matthew 11:25, 26; 26:39, 42 and Mark 14:36.

Furthermore, Jesus told the Jews: "What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality."(John 7:16, 17) What was Jesus saying ? That what he taught did not originate with him but came from God. If Jesus is God, would he have said that "what I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me" ? Would Jesus have used the word "or" in verse 17 to differentiate his "teaching" from God if he is God ?

Jesus further said: "I have not come of my own initiative, but he that sent me is real, and you do not know him. I know him, because I am a representative from him, and that One sent me forth.” (John 7:28, 29) If Jesus is God, then would have said that he had "not come of my own initiative", but that he was "a representative from him, and that One sent me forth.” ? In addition, Jesus told the Jews: "I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.” (John 8:28, 29) Could Jesus be God and yet be taught by the Father and always do "the things pleasing to" the Father ?

Based on just these few scriptural references, what can be determined ? That Jesus is not God. At John 20:17, after his resurrection from the dead, Jesus told Mary: "Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” If Jesus is God, would this be a true statement, that he was ' ascending....to his God ' ? No.

Some 65 years later, at Revelation 3, Jesus reaffirms this, saying: "The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine."(Rev 3:12) Hence, what can a reasonable person conclude after examining just these few Scriptures ? That Jesus is not God. What did Jesus tell about himself ?

In speaking with Nicodemus, Jesus told him: "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him."(John 3:16, 17) The apostle John restated what Jesus said: "God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him."(1 John 4:9) Therefore, Jesus is not God, but God's "only-begotten Son", the only son directly created by God.
 
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Duckybill

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If Jesus was not God He would have severely rebuked Thomas for this statement. But He didn't. Thomas was one of the 12. He knew who Jesus was.

John 20:28-29 (NKJV)

[sup]28 [/sup]And Thomas answered and said to Him, "MY LORD AND MY GOD!" [sup]29 [/sup]Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
 

Guestman

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Despite the fact that Jesus himself said that he is God's "only-begotten Son" at John 3:16, that he was ' taught by the Father' at John 8:28, that he was granted "all authority...in heaven and on earth" by his Father at Matthew 28:18, that he is unaware of the "day and hour" as to the time when the "great tribulation" is to begin, "but only the Father", at Matthew 24:36, that "the Father is greater than I am" at John 14:28, that he prayed "not as I will, but as you will" at Matthew 26:39, that he used an endearing term that only a child uses with regard to a loving Father, by saying: "Abba (meaning in Aramaic "O Father", corresponding with the word "papa" in English) Father" at Mark 14:36, individuals still give support to the trinity, that Jesus is God.

The apostle Paul clearly understood that Jesus is "the image of the invisible God, firstborn of all creation" at Colossians 1:15, that Jesus has a God and Father by telling the Ephesians: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" at Ephesians 1:3, reemphasizing that Jesus has a God to the Ephesians again, by saying "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him" at Ephesians 1:17, that Jesus is subservient to his Father, by saying that "the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God" at 1 Corinthians 11:3.

Those who say that Jesus is God, are no different than the religious leaders of Jesus day, that regardless of the mountain of evidence that showed him as the Messiah (meaning "anointed one"), as at Matthew 8:14-16, 9:35, the healing of the demon-possessed man at Matthew 12:22, whereby the Pharisees attributed the healing to Beelzebulb (thereby sinning against the holy spirit[Matt 12:31,32], resulting in their everlasting destruction upon death), of his changing water into wine at John 2, of his resurrecting Jairus 12 year old daughter at Mark 5:38-42 and of Lazarus resurrection at John 11, these hated him, even seeking to put him to death.(John 11:53) The religious leaders were unreasonable, not wishing to change their "ways", but remaining steadfast in their wrong beliefs. Jesus called them "blind guides", saying "Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted."(Matt 15:13, 14)

Those who say that Jesus is God have followed the "tradition" of the trinity without serious consideration of what the Bible really teaches about Jesus Christ. Very few examine the Bible without bias, but instead follow what has been taught by the churches. Very few give critical thought of the Bible, "chewing the cud" so to speak. Because to view it other than what "orthodox Christianity" has promoted often makes a person stop in their tracks. These are unwilling to reason on the Bible, and would make a distortion of justice in a court case, already having passed judgment upon someone without carefully examining the evidence of his innocence or guilt. It takes courage to speak the truth, for Jesus said that those who did, would be "hated".(John 15:18-20)

Despite what Jesus and his apostles taught regarding his crucial role as God's "servant"(Matt 12:18), most cast aside all of the evidence of his Sonship (Matt 16:16; Dan 7:13, 14), but have placed him as God. Because the nation of Israel threw aside all the miraculous works and weighty evidence supporting Jesus being the promised Messiah, even to the point of murdering Jesus Christ (1 Thess 2:14, 15), God cast them off forever.(Matt 23:37-39) Likewise, of the churches, for they are to be dealt with forcefully for their teaching that which is not true.(Rev 17:16; 18:8)
 
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