Joan of Arc remains

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Christina

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Joan of Arc remains 'are fakes' Bones thought to be the holy remains of 15th Century French heroine Joan of Arc were in fact made from an Egyptian mummy and a cat, research has revealed. In 1867, a jar was found in a Paris pharmacy attic, along with a label claiming it held relics of Joan's body. But new forensic tests suggest that the remains date from between the third and sixth centuries BC - hundreds of years before Joan was even born. The study has been reported in the news pages of the Nature journal. Forensic scientist Dr Philippe Charlier, who led the investigation, told Nature: "I'd never have thought that it could be from a mummy." Rouen relics France's national heroine - canonised in 1920 - was convicted of heresy and witchcraft and burned alive in 1431, aged just 19. The "relics" were said to have been found at the stake in the Normandy town of Rouen where Joan was burned. Perhaps it was created to increase the importance of the process of beatification in 1909 Philippe Charlier, Raymond Poincare Hospital The remains consisted of a charred-looking human rib, chunks of what appeared to be blackened wood, a 15-centimetre fragment of linen, and a cat thigh bone. In medieval Europe it was common practice to throw black cats into the pyres of supposed witches. Recognised as genuine and sacred by the Church, the "remains" are now housed in a museum in Chinon belonging to the Archdiocese of Tours. Stink bombshell Dr Charlier, from the Raymond Poincare Hospital in Garches, near Paris, obtained permission to study the relics from the France's Catholic Church last year. He used a range of scientific tests such as spectrometry, electron microscopy, and pollen analysis. Those tests dated the bone to between the seventh and third centuries BC, Dr Charlier said. The cat bone dated from the same period and also was mummified. The researchers also found pollen from pine trees, probably from resin used in ancient Egyptian embalming. Pines did not grow in Normandy during the 15th Century. Dr Charlier also recruited two smell experts, Sylvaine Delacourte and Jean-Michel Duriez, from the perfume industry. They were independently asked to sniff the relics as well as nine other samples of bone and hair from Dr Charlier's lab without being told what they were. Both smelled hints of "burnt plaster" and "vanilla" in the samples. The plaster smell backs up claims that Joan was burnt on a plaster stake, to make the spectacle last longer. But a vanilla smell is inconsistent with cremation. It comes from the compound vanillin, which is released during the decomposition of a body. Medicinal purpose Analysis of the black crust covering the rib and the cat bone showed that it was not caused by fire, but an embalming mix of wood resins, bitumen and chemicals such as malachite. In medieval times and later, powdered mummy remains were used for medicinal purposes, "to treat stomach ailments, long or painful periods, all blood problems," Philippe Charlier told the Associated Press. The researchers' assumption is that a 19th Century apothecary was behind the fake, and transformed the remains of an Egyptian mummy into a fake relic, Dr Charlier said. Why it was done remains a mystery. According to Philippe Charlier it was probably not for money: "Perhaps it was for religious reasons. "Perhaps it was created to increase the importance of the process of beatification in 1909." Story from BBC NEWS:http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/scie...ure/6527105.stm
 

betchevy

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The reason for these relics are??????? To make money? to make money by bringing in tourists? I am not sure even if the shroud of Turin is Christs that we should honor it as if it were holy. That is the key word HOLY....Would an inadimate object be considered holy? ever? The Arc of the Covenant was the holiest object ever, but only because it was the footstool of God. If God left it, as I believe he did after Israel began to worship other gods, then wouldn't its holiness also be gone? The Stone of Scone was carried by the tribes throughout their time in the desert and was the stone which gave them water when struck both times, but does that make it holy? I don't think its holy, but it is an important piece of heritage. What amazes me is almost no one even knows about this stone and its origins. A
 

Bamp;#39;midbar

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Shalom, Betchevy! I got your PM, but I can't answer it until I make more posts. At least, that is what it tells me when I try to answer you. I'm new, so that is why you haven't met me before. Thanks for the welcome.
smile.gif

Would an inadimate object be considered holy? ever?
Some inanimate objects were called "holy", such as certain garments a priest wore.
Leviticus 16:4 "He shall put on the holy linen tunic, and the linen undergarments shall be next to his body, and he shall be girded with the linen sash and attired with the linen turban (these are holy garments). Then he shall bathe his body in water and put them on.
I've heard of the Stone of Scone, but I didn't know it was connected to the rock that gave water. I thought it was connected to Jacob. Can you give a link showing the connection?
 

betchevy

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This is the name of a Biblical Archelogist who wrote a book in the 70's called the Stone of Destiny. I am searching for a good site where this may be located on line, but the only one so far is not up at the moment. But there is the name of the author and book. I will continue to search and post the link. You can purchase it from a place in Arkansas for about $10 its # is 800-643-4645. They carry all of Dr. Capts books....You are right they were holy objects... iI was also thinking on this subject that and object could be unholy... there is a difference in unholy and unclean or unclean and sinful.I have a Talit and haven't used it yet , being a woman I am not sure yet I should... but the garment that Elijah threw down to Elisha was a powerful garment....perhaps holy?
 

Christina

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Bet I believe B'midbar is right I'm 99% sure the stone was used as Jacobs pillow. when he dreamed of the latter to heaven (Jacobs latter) but I'll leave a little % for you to prove me mistaken.
 

Bamp;#39;midbar

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(betchevy;8627)
I have a Talit and haven't used it yet , being a woman I am not sure yet I should... but the garment that Elijah threw down to Elisha was a powerful garment....perhaps holy?
I wonder about the mantle of Elijah. First, the hairy mantle seems to be part of the clothing especially for a prophet. John the Baptist has a camel's hair garment (a hairy mantle?) in Mat 3:4, and in Zech 13:4 it seems like it might be associated with prophets as well.
Zechariah 13:4 On that day the prophets will be ashamed, every one, of their visions when they prophesy; they will not put on a hairy mantle in order to deceive,
I don't recall that Elisha uses the mantle again in the same way as he does that first day to part the waters. So perhaps it is a symbol of the passing of the power/position from Elijah to Elisha, but perhaps not. Perhaps it was actually used to transfer the power or spirit. Either way, I think God was ultimately responsible, because Elijah said to Elisha that how the double portion thing went depended upon what Elisha saw when the chariots came. See 2 Kings 2:9-10, or 1-18 for the whole story.This reminds me of how Elisha's bones seem to be the occasion of a miracle. After he dies and is buried, a dead man is tossed onto his bones because the people who are in charge of burying the man are apparently in a hurry because of raiders. But when the body falls on the bones of Elisha, the man is raised to life. Had power remained in the bones? Was it that the bones were from a holy man? At the least, God used it as an occasion of a miracle. 2 Kings 13:20-21.For a modern mind like my own, it seems like touch does something in the bible, as seems to be the case with unclean, which is transmitted by touch, as when a menstruating woman sits on a chair and then a man merely touches the chair. I agree with you, though, unclean and holy and sinful are not the same concepts.
Leviticus 15:22 'Whoever touches any thing on which she sits shall wash his clothes and bathe in water and be unclean until evening.
Just thinking out loud. Thanks for trying to look up the reference.