How Could Have Satan Sinned?

CharismaticLady said:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.
I, among others, have noticed that modern versions leave out crucial information.

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I think you left out some crucial information too! That quote was from Matthew chapter 5:

22) But I tell you, that everyone who is angry with his brother without a cause will be in danger of the judgment; and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ will be in danger of the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna.

So don't call anyone a fool!

Although I think Jesus was implying that even if you think badly of somebody then you are at risk of sinning against them, so you should try not to be angry with anyone, and be patient with their apparent foolishness.

WaterSong said:

What's curious in the aftermath of that fall to earth is when we find Lucifer/Satan, or ha Satan, cannot do anything without God's permission. (Job 1)
Another curious thing in the post war era is, why did God let Lucifer and those angels who obeyed him to live after they lost the war?
Only to let them vex humans on earth.

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I use that photo in another Forum. I really think that is what Jesus looks like. How could a little 4-year old Girl get visions of heaven and Jesus (with Atheist Parents mind you) and then have this prodigy talent to paint that portrait at 7 years old? And then Colton Burpo confirmed it in that book, "Heaven Is For Real". Saw the movie too, wonderful acting, a good holiday movie.
Anyways, back to the OP.
Satan needs God's permission! With Job, Satan accused him, made a bet with God that he would curse him if He didn't bless him with everything, so God let Satan do all that he did, destroy everyone and everything except for him - for our lessen, for us to have strength and know that whatever happens, God is there, can be trusted and that there is a purpose. He causes all things to work for good...
Many believe that the Garden of Eden was perfect? Physically yes, but was the environment perfect? How could it be perfect when an opportunity existed that could possibly cause death and separation from God, get them kicked out and suffer curses and pass them down throughout all generations to come? Furthermore, how perfect can a place be with Satan roaming around trying to lure you, tempt you into falling? It wasn't perfect, it was planned. Wait a minute now, the Fall of Man was planned? What kind of heresy are you talking about ... have you lost your mind you might say?
We cannot know Good, the attributes of God, and we cannot really appreciate them unless we know their opposites, that is sin and evil. Could know forgiveness, love, truth, justice, hope, faith, healing, unless we actually experienced what it was like to live with the opposite; pain and suffering, lies, hate, hopelessness, etc.
It was a perfect plan. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was put there so that we can understand and appreciate. Otherwise, why would he put that tree AND Satan in there. And as you said, why wouldn't he destroy all of them? Because LOVE can not be forced on us. He loved us, but we could not really love him and He cannot force us to, it comes willingly and with a cost, sacrifice, death, and that was His plan from the start , before the foundation of the world. That He would send a Savior, to die for our Sins - that greatest act of love ( which we would have never known or appreciated).
Example: The Haiti Earthquake took about 300k lives. Most would say that was evil. What was interesting about Haiti, one of the poorest nations on earth, is that it was filled with false religions, Voodoo and others. People were in fear of evil spirits that controlled them in bondage. The earthquake hits and what happens. They were flooded with help, food, doctors, love unconditionally and then gospel came as well. Afterwards, many came to Christ. So was that an evil act or just God altering the path of Haiti?

Isaiah 45:7 says "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." KJV
Other translations for the word evil, use calamity, disaster, trouble, destruction, woe.

April_Rose said:

When he was in Heaven and there's no sin in Heaven? Also, would God forgive him if he repented?

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He gave Satan creaturely free will to choose or not.

Teh Bible doesn't say anything about offering forgiveness if satan repented so it is a moot question.

Angels are pure spirits and cannot change their minds so there is no means of repentance

keithr said:

Just hating someone is not a sin, although actions performed out of hatred for somebody might well be

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Acting from hate or anger usually results in sin... But is the feeling of hate a sin???
I notice that i cannot control the feelings that first come to me. Anger and hate will often be my first feeling to something...

So the emotion of anger/hate is not a sin... But what if we hold onto such hate???
What if my hate towards somebody is allowed to fester inside, grinding down my spirit and soul over time???

Resentment... Is that a sin??? We are called to forgive so there should be no resentment.

So to the question of weather hate is a sin or not i would say that it can be, in the form of bitterness, resentment.

April Rose have you ever heard that saying "no sympathy for the devil"? We should not have sympathy for the devil who is unimaginably evil and wicked.

April_Rose said:

When he was in Heaven and there's no sin in Heaven? Also, would God forgive him if he repented?

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Satan coveted God's Throne. Sin was and is possible in the heavenly dimension, which Satan still is free to appear before God's throne to accuse us, like he did with Job, which of course is bearing false witness, which is a sin.

The king of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28 is a parable pointing to Satan, because it speaks of one who was the "anointed cherub that covereth", and was in God's Garden of Eden. We know that can never apply to the flesh king of Tyre, but it can about Satan, as a heavenly cherub is the type of being he is.

God is not going to ever forgive Satan, for God has already judged him and sentenced him to perish at the future "lake of fire" event after Christ's future thousand years reign (Revelation 20). Only Satan and his angels that rebelled are already judged and sentenced to perdition.

CharismaticLady said:

This may answer your question:

Here is a difference in Bible translations:

King James Version:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

New American Standard Bible:
22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be answerable to the court.


I, among others, have noticed that modern versions leave out crucial information.

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Ahh thats a very keen observation... A charismatic observation...
I often look at other bible versions as well for this same reason... I know KJV is the best but i just do it.
Im more of a numbers person so i just miss too much trying to read KJV...

I would say then that our hate for the evil one is a righteous indignation

keithr said:

I think you left out some crucial information too! That quote was from Matthew chapter 5:

22) But I tell you, that everyone who is angry with his brother without a cause will be in danger of the judgment; and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ will be in danger of the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna.

So don't call anyone a fool!

Although I think Jesus was implying that even if you think badly of somebody then you are at risk of sinning against them, so you should try not to be angry with anyone, and be patient with their apparent foolishness.

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I'm zeroing in of the absent wording in modern translations. This is just one segment from the whole Sermon on the Mount and Lord's Prayer. Other verses that modern translations leave out crucial words is Romans 8:1 and 1 John 5:7. Whenever a new version comes out on the market, all I have to do is look up one of these verses to know whether it is complete, or corrupted.

Cristo Rei said:

Ahh thats a very keen observation... A charismatic observation...
I often look at other bible versions as well for this same reason... I know KJV is the best but i just do it.
Im more of a numbers person so i just miss too much trying to read KJV...

I would say then that our hate for the evil one is a righteous indignation

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Absolutely. We can be angry, and still not sin. And you named it correctly, "righteous indignation" like Jesus and the moneychangers!

April_Rose said:

I don't have any sympathy for the devil, I was just asking some questions about him,.. but it is rather sad that he was created to be the most beautiful angel in Heaven and went rogue like that,.. but I don't actually feel for him personally.

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I think when Satan tempted Eve in the garden, it may have been his first sin too. Because he was in the Garden of Eden, I assume, before iniquity was found in him. Satan was also known as the King of Tyre.

Ez. 28

11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

17 “Your heart was b]">[b]lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

18 “You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.” ’ ”

Pearl said:

Do angels have free will, I didn't think they did.

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Oh Pearl....all of God's intelligent creation throughout the Universe has free will....probably also the animals but I can't comment on that definitively. Love does not produce autonotoms. When Lucifer challenged the government of God a portion of the angels sided with him....they choose whom they would serve.

The joy in loving and being loved is ability of free expression and the respect of it.....any coercion results in its loss.

theefaith said:

Angels are pure spirits and cannot change their minds so there is no means of repentance

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this is just not correct theefaith. Angels are an intelligent order a little above humans.

April_Rose said:

I don't have any sympathy for the devil, I was just asking some questions about him,.. but it is rather sad that he was created to be the most beautiful angel in Heaven and went rogue like that,.. but I don't actually feel for him personally.

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please make the effort and read the chapter on 'The origin of Sin' that I posted to you in the book 'The Great Controversy'.
It will give you quiet a perspective and plenty of food for thought. Read it even if you don't agree with it.

April_Rose said:

Really? How do you know that?

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It is the very reason God created man as a vessel to Carry His Spirit, if HE had not we would all be in the same boat, and would have no salvation. Does one care about the outside of the vessel as long as the wine is sweet and good, which is why Jesus said to mentioned to the Pharisses about cleaning the outside of the cup while the inside is filled with sin.