I would like to ask all of you, if you think it is possible, that the two witnesses are not two men, but the church or believers. Jewish believers and Gentile believers Rev 114These are the two olive trees, and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.These are the two olive treesWho in the bible has been called his olive trees?Romans 11:24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?Here we see Jewish believers being called natural olive trees and the Gentile believers, the wild olive treeAlso the two witnesses are called the two lampstands that stand before the LordWe see in chapter 2 of revelations the 7 lampstand are 7 churches I think it is possible that the two witnesses are the church the Jewish believers and the gentile believersAfter all aren’t we to witness to the all the world
two witnesses
- Thread starter John
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
What you say does makes sense but how do you explain them being killed by antichrist and reviving?
It’s a good question. I asked for all of your opinions, so let’s see if this makes sense to you.Rev 11For three and a half days many from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth. 11 But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked onI would say this is talking about the tribulation, for three and half years there will be persecution of the church. Then after the three and one half years1 Corinthians 15:51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory.1 thessalonians 4:16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.REV 11:12 11But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies lookedThis is, for lack of a better word the “rapture”This is when those who are in Christ are changed, at his return. To answer your question this is how they are revived
John, this is a good topic that I've been in discussions about before. Your point of view is definitely one that can be made IMHO. I'll say first that from Scripture we'll know when they show up be it a church, group, or single individual. I'm certain we'll know them. However, I believe that they are two very specific people. Now it's my own personal opinion on the matter here, but I believe that these are two prophets and they are Moses and Elijah. The reason I believe it is these two is they were at the transfiguration and this is the biggest reason for me. I'll call your attention to some verses that often get overlooked: Zechariah 4:11-14Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. That's not the kicker though, back up to the beginning of the chapter: Zechariah 4:2-3And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. It's clear that these are the same: Revelation 11:4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. The problem with supposing these are indeed churches is that there is a three day period in which they lie dead. Of course this makes one think resurrection, but it doesn't follow I Corinthians 15 in my view. It says in a moment, not in three days. The other thing is that the the seventh angel has yet to sound the trumpet. In the verse you referenced it says at the final trump in I Corinthians 15, and in Revelation 11 the final trump does not sound until the 7th, a few verses later in the same chapter.
John I have also heard this before in fact I think I have a article about that somewhere on this site So I have considered it However I have come two the conclusion that it is two men(individuals) that are the two witness but I believe one will be a Jew representing the old covenant and one will be a christian representing the new covenant. I believe this because when the two witness appear the Jews will not as of yet believe in Christ so a christian witness would not be listened to nor accepted as a witness from God by the Jews. In like manner a christian would not listen to a witness or accept that he was from God if he was not accepting of Christ as messiah. So for the two wittiness's to accomplish what they come here to do. I truly believe that God will send one Jew and one Christian. If I had to guess who I would probably say Elijah and John the Baptist but we shall see who they are when they get here.
Hello swampfox I think you are right it is a good topic, but there is one thing that bothers me about your post and that is. I have no Idea of what IMHO is
The problem with supposing these are indeed churches is that there is a three day period in which they lie dead. Of course this makes one think resurrection, but it doesn't follow I Corinthians 15 in my view. It says in a moment, not in three days.quote
actually it says three and 1 half days, referring, to me, to the second half of the finally 7 years .Danial's final 7Rev11:2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 42 months= 3 1/2 years 1260 =3 1/2 years I am not sure but isn't this Danial's final 7what I am saying is, I believe it to be a 3 1/2 year period, not three days look at Matthew 2415 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' [a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22 "If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the wilderness,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. 29 "Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' 30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the peoples of the earth [c] will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. I think this great distress is where we see the witnesses or the believers dieing for their beliefs , for messiah. 3 1/2 years refers to the persecution time of the church for the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period Rev 6:10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed. So to try to answer your question, The church is being persecuted for three and one half years. For three and one half years Christians are being killed, but they will be raised in a moment, when he returnsAs far as the seventh trumpet I think it is happening at the same time as the believers are being changed in a moment. I feel a lot of Revelation overlapsMy views I am not forcing them on anyone, just something that makes sense to meAlso ,if Moses and Elijah were the two witnesses, they would have to die twice and be resurrected twice, well Moses anywayIts very late here I hope I made a little sense
The problem with supposing these are indeed churches is that there is a three day period in which they lie dead. Of course this makes one think resurrection, but it doesn't follow I Corinthians 15 in my view. It says in a moment, not in three days.quote
actually it says three and 1 half days, referring, to me, to the second half of the finally 7 years .Danial's final 7Rev11:2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 42 months= 3 1/2 years 1260 =3 1/2 years I am not sure but isn't this Danial's final 7what I am saying is, I believe it to be a 3 1/2 year period, not three days look at Matthew 2415 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' [a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22 "If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the wilderness,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. 29 "Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' 30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the peoples of the earth [c] will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. I think this great distress is where we see the witnesses or the believers dieing for their beliefs , for messiah. 3 1/2 years refers to the persecution time of the church for the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period Rev 6:10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed. So to try to answer your question, The church is being persecuted for three and one half years. For three and one half years Christians are being killed, but they will be raised in a moment, when he returnsAs far as the seventh trumpet I think it is happening at the same time as the believers are being changed in a moment. I feel a lot of Revelation overlapsMy views I am not forcing them on anyone, just something that makes sense to meAlso ,if Moses and Elijah were the two witnesses, they would have to die twice and be resurrected twice, well Moses anywayIts very late here I hope I made a little sense
Yes these two witnesse's are somehow linked to the abomination of desolation , are also mentioned in Zecariah, with more explanaition, not that that helps, but must be figurativtly talking about something, perhaps the reign of the beast, which we know lasts 1260 years.
Similar threads
