SinSinSin

We can clearly read who belongs to Messiah Jesus.

Galatians 5
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

BarnyFife said:

Wasn't the King James corrupted by Catholic and Anglican Theology?

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Again my friend. You are barking up the wrong tree.

I don’t care about King James.

I care about all of God’s words.

Most Modern Bibles are missing inspired scriptures. Period.

Michiah-Imla said:

By the way, my response did not focus on the word “lawful”.

I’m perplexed why you chose to bring up KJV-onlyism regarding that word. The word translated “lawful” bears no weight here. The “unspeakable” words are the focus here.

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You emphasized neither. I merely assumed that the word lawful was the source or your remark about presumption. The KJV-only remark was not directed at anyone in particular. When you suggest mistranslation around here they usually come out of the woodwork. I apologize for any perplexity my assumption caused you.

BarnyFife said:

You emphasized neither. I merely assumed that the word lawful was the source or your remark about presumption. The KJV-only remark was not directed at anyone in particular. When you suggest mistranslation around here they usually come out of the woodwork. I apologize for any perplexity my assumption caused you.

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It’s all good friend.

There’s no ill will.

07-07-07 said:

We can clearly read who belongs to Messiah Jesus.

Galatians 5
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

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Unfortunately, most of us don't have a heart-reading machine.

farouk said:

@Gideons300 I appreciate your posts; they don't seem to me to be condescending at all.

Hope this is proving to be a peaceful holiday period for you and yours.

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Thank you Farouk. We awoke Christmas morning to 4" of snow and sunny skies. I am 71 and it was my first white Christmas. It was awesome.

blessings to you,

Gids

Michiah-Imla said:

Again my friend. You are barking up the wrong tree.

I don’t care about King James.

I care about all of God’s words.

Most Modern Bibles are missing inspired scriptures. Period.

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Sorry. How about pre-modern translations, then? I'm honestly not trying to pigeon-hole you. My point was that I don't think my interpretation of the verse requires any presumption. But it's perfectly all right if you disagree. I'm not sure what you mean by "all of God's words." All we have are manuscripts and translations, am I right? As far as I know, neither "lawful" nor "unspeakable" arr added (although I'm not implying that you believe either of them are). Candidly speaking, I guess I'm pressing you a little on the presumption idea. We can drop it whenever you like, though.

BarnyFife said:

My point was that I don't think my interpretation of the verse requires any presumption.

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Well, that portion of scripture does not say that Christ taught Paul the gospel.

Let’s look at it:

2 Corinthians 12:1-4 KJV
[1] It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

[2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; such an one caught up to the third heaven.

[3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;

[4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

There’s nothing here that says Christ taught Paul the gospel.

But you can find that here:

Galatians 1:11-12 KJVS
[11] But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. [12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

But this just means that Paul got this revelation directly from the Lord, not the other Apostles (who were eyewitness of what was revealed to Paul later).

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

07-07-07 said:

We can clearly read who belongs to Messiah Jesus.

Galatians 5
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

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This is an amazing scripture. Would you mind sharing what that means to you? No baiting. Truly curious. Thanks in advance.

Gideon

Gideons300 said:

This is an amazing scripture. Would you mind sharing what that means to you? No baiting. Truly curious. Thanks in advance.

Gideon

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Hi. Let's walk through the Scriptures to shed Light on it.

John 3
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans 8
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

What are the works of the flesh?

Galatians 5
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Who then belongs to Messiah Jesus?

Galatians 5
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

07-07-07 said:

Hi. Let's walk through the Scriptures to shed Light on it.

John 3
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans 8
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

What are the works of the flesh?

Galatians 5
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Who then belongs to Messiah Jesus?

Galatians 5
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Click to expand...

That’s good teaching right there.

07-07-07 said:

Hi. Let's walk through the Scriptures to shed Light on it.

John 3
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans 8
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

What are the works of the flesh?

Galatians 5
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Who then belongs to Messiah Jesus?

Galatians 5
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

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So, if Christians are found still battling these things, does this men they are not saved, or are they carnal believers, or something else?

If someone is born again, do they automatically find victory over the sins of the flesh? Or is there something that must happen to "activate" ones new nature?

blessings,
Gideon

How does one not fall back into human effort.... i.e. the flesh trying to kill the flesh..... in ones attempts to walk as a new creature? Theoretically, it may be a done deal, but practically speaking, there is a lot of confusion out there.

blessings,

Gideon

Gideons300 said:

How does one not fall back into human effort.... i.e. the flesh trying to kill the flesh.....

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Hi @Gideons300

If I may; the flesh must be crucified through the Spirit.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

2 Peter 1:5-7,10 KJVS
[5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall

BarnyFife said:

Lawful is very likely a mistranslation. What could Christ peak that is unlawful? The word translated "lawful" can also be translated "possible." And here we go. I have just gone down the KJV-only rabbit hole.

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"Allowed"

He saw things he is not allowed to speak about.

07-07-07 said:

Hi. Let's walk through the Scriptures to shed Light on it.

John 3
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans 8
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

What are the works of the flesh?

Galatians 5
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Who then belongs to Messiah Jesus?

Galatians 5
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Click to expand...

Circumcision 'in the flesh' is the sign of being in covenant with God.

Genesis 17:11
11You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.

The putting aside of the deeds of the flesh in spiritual circumcision by the Spirit is the sign that you are in covenant with God through Jesus Christ.

1 John 3:7-24
7 ...The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.
18 ...let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth. 19This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence:
24The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

The putting off of the deeds of the flesh in spiritual circumcision shows that you are a child of God and belong to him. Not putting off the deeds of the flesh shows that you do NOT belong to God and are a child of the devil. Free Grace theology says that is not true and says that disobedient, uncircumcised people can be saved, born again children of God too. That's not what the Bible says.

Gideons300 said:

How does one not fall back into human effort.... i.e. the flesh trying to kill the flesh..... in ones attempts to walk as a new creature? Theoretically, it may be a done deal, but practically speaking, there is a lot of confusion out there.

blessings,

Gideon

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@Gideons300

As John Newton wrote:

" 'Tis grace that brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home."

Philippians 1.6: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

Michiah-Imla said:

Hi @Gideons300

If I may; the flesh must be crucified through the Spirit.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

2 Peter 1:5-7,10 KJVS
[5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall

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Consider a point if you will. What is crucifying the flesh and mortifying the deeds of the body are two separate things? You see, we are told we were crucified.... and died.... when Jesus died. The truth is, we are never told to crucify the flesh. As a matter of fact, Paul tells us in Romans 8 that we are no longer in the flesh but in the spirit and we owe the flesh nothing.

Of course we still have fleshly bodies and will until we meet Jesus. But we are told that our natures are NEW. Now. God plants us as those born again in a place of victory, and then tells us to keep our bodies under our control, for now we can.

It is not up to us to subdue our old nature. It will be like wrestling a ghost, and yet millions of God's own attempt do so daily. Self cannot crucify self. If we believe that we are a mixture of old nature and new nature, it will lead to unwinnable battles, three steps forward, two to four steps backwards.

But the truth is, we are already new. We simply have failed to believe it so, and as a result, we have not made our tree "good" through an act of audacious faith, believing our old nature to truly be dead.

It is, and when we awaken to that truth, our lives will never be the same.

blessings,

Gideon

Gideons300 said:

Consider a point if you will. What is crucifying the flesh and mortifying the deeds of the body are two separate things? You see, we are told we were crucified.... and died.... when Jesus died. The truth is, we are never told to crucify the flesh. As a matter of fact, Paul tells us in Romans 8 that we are no longer in the flesh but in the spirit and we owe the flesh nothing.

Of course we still have fleshly bodies and will until we meet Jesus. But we are told that our natures are NEW. Now. God plants us as those born again in a place of victory, and then tells us to keep our bodies under our control, for now we can.

It is not up to us to subdue our old nature. It will be like wrestling a ghost, and yet millions of God's own attempt do so daily. Self cannot crucify self. If we believe that we are a mixture of old nature and new nature, it will lead to unwinnable battles, three steps forward, two to four steps backwards.

But the truth is, we are already new. We simply have failed to believe it so, and as a result, we have not made our tree "good" through an act of audacious faith, believing our old nature to truly be dead.

It is, and when we awaken to that truth, our lives will never be the same.

blessings,

Gideon

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@Gideons300 What a tremendous chapter is Romans 8!