feasts of charity?

JohnDB · Dec 26, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
What rod is Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Yet future?
Lamentations 3:1-24 I am the man that hath seen affliction by the rod of his wrath. [2] He hath led me, and brought me into darkness, but not into light. [3] Surely against me is he turned; he turneth his hand against me all the day. [4] My flesh and my skin hath he made old; he hath broken my bones. [5] He hath builded against me, and compassed me with gall and travail. [6] He hath set me in dark places, as they that be dead of old. [7] He hath hedged me about, that I cannot get out: he hath made my chain heavy. [8] Also when I cry and shout, he shutteth out my prayer. [9] He hath inclosed my ways with hewn stone, he hath made my paths crooked. [10] He was unto me as a bear lying in wait, and as a lion in secret places. [11] He hath turned aside my ways, and pulled me in pieces: he hath made me desolate. [12] He hath bent his bow, and set me as a mark for the arrow. [13] He hath caused the arrows of his quiver to enter into my reins. [14] I was a derision to all my people; and their song all the day. [15] He hath filled me with bitterness, he hath made me drunken with wormwood. [16] He hath also broken my teeth with gravel stones, he hath covered me with ashes. [17] And thou hast removed my soul far off from peace: I forgat prosperity. [18] And I said, My strength and my hope is perished from the Lord : [19] Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall. [20] My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me. (2 Corinthians 12:21)[21] This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope. [22] It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. [23] They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. [24] The Lord is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.

The Scepter is the rod of iron.

A ruler's scepter was one usually non functional...it would be made of gold and precious stones and look amazing.
But it was in fact a representation of a weapon of war.
God's Scepter of iron is a metaphor for God being active in destroying sin. (War hammer)

And it happens that we can be guilty of corporate sin as well as individual sin.
"No one snowflake feels responsible for the avalanche"

A Lament is a song written to mourn the death. Lamentations was written by Jeremiah to lament the death of the nation of Israel. The people were to go into exile into Babylon as a result of sinful lifestyles.

Now parts of this can be seen as a reference to the suffering of Jesus...not all but occasionally. It's highly metaphoric language saying everything in a metaphoric fashion...it's mostly lost on us today.

But the passage in question is talking about good guys are going to die right along with the wicked and feel powerless to stop anything. No "magic" words of comfort or encouragement to behave justly can be discovered. (Wormwood)

VictoryinJesus · Dec 26, 2020

@Ziggy couldn't quote your whole post and respond because the word count. You said: “I don't see the following as a feast of charity. There is a whole lot of negativity going on... IMO that is.”

“Betrayal, broken, bringing to remembrance, show the Lord's death, guilty, examine yourself, damnation, no discernment, weak, sick, sleep, judge yourself or be judged, chastened, condemnation.”

See your point about negativity. Byrd use to mention on the forum about ‘your love feast’. but I could never understand what he was trying to communicate: was it the ‘feasts of charity’ or what we call or claim as our “feasts of charity”? Still have so many questions about ‘feasts of Charity’ and value your perspective. If Charity which seeks not its own but that of another ...is ‘feasts of Charity’ then would it be ‘feasts of Christ’?

One verse that has been on my mind for weeks is Luke 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.

always heard that as when He comes ...he will come forth and serve me. But consider Paul’s rebuke of what was delivered to him from the Lord, he gave. Same as the Lord who when He was betrayed ‘gave’ what was delivered of God. Luke 12:37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes.(A) Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them.

But consider the question which is greater he that sits at meat to be served or he that serves? the Lord Will dress himself and come forth and make them sit (down)and will ...come forth to serve.

Consider to ‘love His appearance’, the desire of ‘The Lord Will dress himself to serve and come forth’. Needed is the coming forth. In charity seeks not its own but that of another. An example in the multitude being told to sit and the serving ‘passing’ of meat (loaves and fish)?

What is needful (imo) is not for when He comes, He will dress himself to serve and come forth to serve (wait) on me ...this isn’t a hope(again an opinion). but instead that He will dress himself with fruits and come forth to serve another...them that sit. Without His coming forth, without His dressing himself to serve ...what else could there be to give unless He first comes forth to minister to another. Giving them meat in due season.

Joel 2:14-16 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the Lord your God? [15] Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: [16] Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

From google search “Will come forth . . .—Better, and as He passes on will minister unto them. The Greek verb expresses, not the “coming out” as from another chamber, but the passing from one to another, as when He washed the disciples’ feet, in John 13:5.”

Luke 10:30-33 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. [31] And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. [32] And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. [33] But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,...

Luke 22:26-27 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. [27] For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

‘He will dress himself’ and come forth (rejoicing) to (serve) minister to them. Luke 12:37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes.(A) Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them.

Does Christ sit at the table to be served,
or does He serve? Probably really botched that up but only seeing more and more every day ...the promise and only hope is He Will dress himself to serve and come forth. Otherwise it is going no where because what is being served it absent and void of Him.

JohnDB · Dec 26, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
but I could never understand what he was trying to communicate: was it the ‘feasts of charity’ or what we call or claim as our “feasts of charity”?

If I can but in here for a second...

Feasts of charity are feasts of love.

Many olde English Bibles use the word "charity" as the modern word "love".
In latin it's a bit different as there are 7 different words for love that don't exist in English. Agape, phileo, eros, and etc.

Translation is not going to be an exact science.

VictoryinJesus · Dec 26, 2020

JohnDB said:
If I can but in here for a second...

Feasts of charity are feasts of love.

Many olde English Bibles use the word "charity" as the modern word "love".
In latin it's a bit different as there are 7 different words for love that don't exist in English. Agape, phileo, eros, and etc.

Translation is not going to be an exact science.

do see the translations are different. Love and charity...how do they differ? Is Charity the wrong word then but instead feast of love?

VictoryinJesus · Dec 26, 2020

JohnDB said:
The Scepter is the rod of iron.

A ruler's scepter was one usually non functional...it would be made of gold and precious stones and look amazing.
But it was in fact a representation of a weapon of war.
God's Scepter of iron is a metaphor for God being active in destroying sin. (War hammer)

And it happens that we can be guilty of corporate sin as well as individual sin.
"No one snowflake feels responsible for the avalanche"

A Lament is a song written to mourn the death. Lamentations was written by Jeremiah to lament the death of the nation of Israel. The people were to go into exile into Babylon as a result of sinful lifestyles.

Now parts of this can be seen as a reference to the suffering of Jesus...not all but occasionally. It's highly metaphoric language saying everything in a metaphoric fashion...it's mostly lost on us today.

But the passage in question is talking about good guys are going to die right along with the wicked and feel powerless to stop anything. No "magic" words of comfort or encouragement to behave justly can be discovered. (Wormwood)

“He hath set me in dark places, as they that be dead of old. [7] He hath hedged me about, that I cannot get out: he hath made my chain heavy. [8] Also when I cry and shout, he shutteth out my prayer. [9] He hath inclosed my ways with hewn stone, he hath made my paths crooked. [10] He was unto me as a bear lying in wait, and as a lion in secret places.”

What is the difference in ‘hewn stone’ above and ‘hewn out of (in)a rock’ ? Matthew 27:58-60 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. [59] And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, [60] And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

Mark 15:45-46 And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph. [46] And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.

farouk · Dec 26, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
Habakkuk 2:15-20 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness! [16] Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the Lord's right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory. [17] For the violence of Lebanon shall cover thee, and the spoil of beasts, which made them afraid, because of men's blood, and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein. [18] What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols? [19] Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it. [20] But the Lord is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.

1 John 5:10-12 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. [11] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. [12] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

@VictoryinJesus Searching passage in Habakkuk there...

farouk · Dec 26, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
do see the translations are different. Love and charity...how do they differ? Is Charity the wrong word then but instead feast of love?

@VictoryinJesus Where in 1 Corinthians 13 the KJV has 'charity', some other versions have 'love'.

VictoryinJesus · Dec 26, 2020

farouk said:
@VictoryinJesus Where in 1 Corinthians 13 the KJV has 'charity', some other versions have 'love'.

Yes...it can be confusing

the whole passage on eating and drinking from the Lord’s table when coming together...seems more like an rebuke in: whether to sit at meat or to serve?

Luke 22:26-27 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. [27] For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

See Charity as the definition of Christ. All listed in suffers long, is not puffed up, rejoices not in evil, endures all things, bears all things... is it too far a stretch to think on:
(A) Truly I tell you, Charity will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come forth and wait on them.

Charity will gird himself to serve...and will come forth to wait on them. Which seems to be the opposite of what was happening when Paul spoke of them coming together for the worse and for this cause ...many are weak among you and do sleep.

Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

JohnDB · Dec 26, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
do see the translations are different. Love and charity...how do they differ? Is Charity the wrong word then but instead feast of love?

It's a difference in time...a span of a few hundred years not in intent or meaning.

JohnDB · Dec 26, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
“He hath set me in dark places, as they that be dead of old. [7] He hath hedged me about, that I cannot get out: he hath made my chain heavy. [8] Also when I cry and shout, he shutteth out my prayer. [9] He hath inclosed my ways with hewn stone, he hath made my paths crooked. [10] He was unto me as a bear lying in wait, and as a lion in secret places.”

What is the difference in ‘hewn stone’ above and ‘hewn out of (in)a rock’ ? Matthew 27:58-60 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. [59] And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, [60] And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

Mark 15:45-46 And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph. [46] And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.

Not much difference except one is talking about a prison and the other is a tomb.

You are using a concordance which is helpful for finding similar uses of a word but getting lost in the hermeneutics of the various books as far as: Audience, purpose of writing, and then the focus of the writing in what it's relating.

And I understand that it's confusing when some of us do something that appears to be similar.

Like when we were talking about the Scepter/war hammer of Judah's and the leadership being passed on to the Messiah.

How to apply these prophecies is very confusing when some of the metaphoric language comes from as far away as 5,000 years ago in a completely different culture very different from our own.

And there are literally hundreds of references to rocks and stones in the Old Testament...and it's a foreshadowing of Jesus.
The real reason it's confusing is that Jesus was not a carpenter. The greek word "Tekon" was used as the word that described Joseph's occupation as well as Jesus' which meant general construction worker.
The ruins of the city Sapphoris is within commuting distance of Nazareth where He grew up. (Jews lived outside of Roman cities) Sapphoris is there today being pored over stone by stone looking for a cutter's mark that was often used to demonstrate the day's labor. They are looking for a mark Jesus would have placed there. The reason being is that the entire city was built out of rock and stone. Just like everything else.

Nazareth itself is/was a tiny one blink town that was filled with "self righteous" people. And considering it's the Jews saying that...that says a LOT right there.

Jesus would have worked as a stone mason for years before he put on the robes of a schmeekah Rabbi.
To this day the whole of Israel is covered in rocks... except for areas of Judean wilderness and areas around the River. Then there's no so much as sand or dirt or water. No bugs or birds either with that sun beating down.
When I went in the summer the Golan Heights were covered in dead brown grass. The winter is when it is green and grows. But I'm digressing from the topic.

Jesus wanted to be found...He wanted to be worshipped and loved by "His People". No one had a clue...and it upset him on more than one occasion.
Jerusalem stone is unique...it's used as a capstone on the bridges in San Antonio.

Ziggy · Dec 26, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
@Ziggy couldn't quote your whole post and respond because the word count. You said: “I don't see the following as a feast of charity. There is a whole lot of negativity going on... IMO that is.”

Thank You Victory,
I have so much sand in my eyes lately I can't see anything with clarity.
I don't know if I'm under some kind of spiritual attack, but everything I try to post is negative.

Jhn 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
Jhn 13:4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
Jhn 13:5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.

Act 6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
Act 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

Jhn 13:12 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
Jhn 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
Jhn 13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
Jhn 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
Jhn 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
Jhn 13:17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

All things are naked before him.

Amen

Hugs

Davy · Dec 26, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
What rod is Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Yet future?
Lamentations 3:1-24 I am the man that hath seen affliction by the rod of his wrath. [2] He hath led me, and brought me into darkness, but not into light. [3] Surely against me is he turned; he turneth his hand against me all the day. [4] My flesh and my skin hath he made old; he hath broken my bones. [5] He hath builded against me, and compassed me with gall and travail. [6] He hath set me in dark places, as they that be dead of old. [7] He hath hedged me about, that I cannot get out: he hath made my chain heavy. [8] Also when I cry and shout, he shutteth out my prayer. [9] He hath inclosed my ways with hewn stone, he hath made my paths crooked. [10] He was unto me as a bear lying in wait, and as a lion in secret places. [11] He hath turned aside my ways, and pulled me in pieces: he hath made me desolate. [12] He hath bent his bow, and set me as a mark for the arrow. [13] He hath caused the arrows of his quiver to enter into my reins. [14] I was a derision to all my people; and their song all the day. [15] He hath filled me with bitterness, he hath made me drunken with wormwood. [16] He hath also broken my teeth with gravel stones, he hath covered me with ashes. [17] And thou hast removed my soul far off from peace: I forgat prosperity. [18] And I said, My strength and my hope is perished from the Lord : [19] Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall. [20] My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me. (2 Corinthians 12:21)[21] This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope. [22] It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. [23] They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. [24] The Lord is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.

Our Lord Jesus does not begin to rule over the nations with that "rod of iron" until He returns to this earth, literally. Zechariah 14 and Acts 1 reveals where and how He will return to this earth. As of right now, Lord Jesus is sitting on the right hand of The Father's throne in Heaven, still expecting, until all His enemies are made His footstool (Hebrews 10:12-13).

VictoryinJesus · Dec 26, 2020

Davy said:
Our Lord Jesus does not begin to rule over the nations with that "rod of iron" until He returns to this earth, literally. Zechariah 14 and Acts 1 reveals where and how He will return to this earth. As of right now, Lord Jesus is sitting on the right hand of The Father's throne in Heaven, still expecting, until all His enemies are made His footstool (Hebrews 10:12-13).

we maybe do not hear the same there or see it differently. Only sharing another perspective on Zechariah 14.

verse 8 speaks of ‘living waters shall go out’
“And it shall come to pass in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; ...in summer and in winter shall it be.

Living water. John 4:11-14 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? [12] Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? [13] Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: [14] But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

also how many times He spoke of being the Living water, the fountain of Living water: Jeremiah 17:13 O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters.

verse 9 speaks of “in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name One.”
... “and Jehovah shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall Jehovah be one, And His Name One.”
And His Name One: John 14:13-14 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. [14] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

1 John 5:7-8 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one. [8] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

John 17:21-23 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. [22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: [23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us ;

Verse 12 And this shall be the plague wherewith Jehovah will smite all the peoples that have warred against Jerusalem: their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their sockets, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
...Though the outward man perishes. Seek the Kingdom (Reign) of the Lord where thief does not approach nor moth consume.
Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Lamentations 3:22 It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

verse 17 speaks of ‘those who goes not up unto Jerusalem to worship the King ...upon them shall be no rain.
17 And it shall be, that whoso of [all] the families of the earth goeth not up unto Jerusalem to worship the King, Jehovah of hosts, upon them there shall be no rain.

which goes with Verse 8 And it shall come to pass ...living waters shall go out from Jerusalem. And His word to the woman by the well that He IS the Living water
John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
...And it shall be, that whoso of [all] the families of the earth goeth not up unto Jerusalem to worship the King, Jehovah of hosts, upon them there shall be no rain.
(John 3:5-7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

just an opinion but not sure how He isn’t the Living water spoken of...

Davy · Dec 27, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
we maybe do not hear the same there or see it differently. Only sharing another perspective on Zechariah 14.

verse 8 speaks of ‘living waters shall go out’
“And it shall come to pass in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; ...in summer and in winter shall it be.

Living water. John 4:11-14 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? [12] Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? [13] Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: [14] But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

also how many times He spoke of being the Living water, the fountain of Living water: Jeremiah 17:13 O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters.

Maybe you haven't studied this...

Ezek 47:1-12
47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.

2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.

3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles.

4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.

5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.

6 And he said unto me, 'Son of man, hast thou seen this?' Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.

7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.

9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
KJV

That is Christ's future Millennium timing. The metaphors in the New Testament verses you posted are symbolic metaphors to that real River of God that was at one time established upon this earth, literally, per Genesis 2. Recall the River in God's Garden of Eden that flowed out of His Garden and fed four other literal rivers upon the earth, two of which are still located on earth today (Euphrates, and Hiddikel or Tigris). God's future Salvation will include glorious events upon this earth that will be quite literal. The return of His literal River and Tree of Life on earth is just two of those things.

verse 9 speaks of “in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name One.”
... “and Jehovah shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall Jehovah be one, And His Name One.”

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us ;

Sorry, but Lord Jesus is not yet... reigning over all nations today, and there still are definitely false gods still being worship on earth today. So it's very, very easy to know the Zedekiah 14:9 verse is still future.

Verse And this shall be the plague wherewith Jehovah will smite all the peoples that have warred against Jerusalem: their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their sockets, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
...Though the outward man perishes. Seek the Kingdom (Reign) of the Lord where thief does not approach nor moth consume.
Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Lamentations 3:22 It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

We cannot just turn a prophesied future literal event into a symbolic metaphor. God's Word works the other way, we recognize when HE... gives a symbolic metaphor first, and then we learn the literal meaning He is using it for. But when He gives us a literal event that's to happen, we cannot turn that into symbolic metaphor. It doesn't work that way. Thus this event of God's consuming fire will be a real literal destruction upon the wicked on this earth at the last day of this world, as written in many Scriptures (Zephaniah 3:8; 1 Thessalonians 5 about the "sudden destruction"; Ezekiel 38:15-23; Zephaniah 1:14-18; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 19 with God's cup of wrath; etc.).

verse 17 speaks of ‘those who goes not up into Jerusalem to worship the King ...upon them shall be no rain.
17 And it shall be, that whoso of [all] the families of the earth goeth not up unto Jerusalem to worship the King, Jehovah of hosts, upon them there shall be no rain.

which goes with Verse 8 And it shall come to pass ...living waters shall go out from Jerusalem. And His word to the woman by the well that He IS the Living water
John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
...And it shall be, that whoso of [all] the families of the earth goeth not up unto Jerusalem to worship the King, Jehovah of hosts, upon them there shall be no rain.

Your linking those New Testament verses is totally irrelevant with those, because He is speaking of literal rains from the sky upon their lands, and it's not a metaphor for the living waters of God's River. The Zechariah 14 Scripture is Christ's future Millennium timing, not this present world timing. See what Jesus said to the Church of Philadelphia in Revelation 3:9. That "synagogue of Satan" being made to come worship at the feet of His elect is what time this Zechariah event is about. That is when those rebellious will bow to Christ.

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Once again, those left that came up against Jerusalem is not about believers, it's about Christ's enemies, and the nations of the unsaved during Christ's future thousand years reign of Revelation 20.

VictoryinJesus · Dec 27, 2020

Davy said:
Maybe you haven't studied this...

Ezek 47:1-12
47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.

2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.

3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles.

4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.

5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.

6 And he said unto me, 'Son of man, hast thou seen this?' Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.

7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.

9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
KJV

That is Christ's future Millennium timing. The metaphors in the New Testament verses you posted are symbolic metaphors to that real River of God that was at one time established upon this earth, literally, per Genesis 2. Recall the River in God's Garden of Eden that flowed out of His Garden and fed four other literal rivers upon the earth, two of which are still located on earth today (Euphrates, and Hiddikel or Tigris). God's future Salvation will include glorious events upon this earth that will be quite literal. The return of His literal River and Tree of Life on earth is just two of those things.

Sorry, but Lord Jesus is not yet... reigning over all nations today, and there still are definitely false gods still being worship on earth today. So it's very, very easy to know the Zedekiah 14:9 verse is still future.

We cannot just turn a prophesied future literal event into a symbolic metaphor. God's Word works the other way, we recognize when HE... gives a symbolic metaphor first, and then we learn the literal meaning He is using it for. But when He gives us a literal event that's to happen, we cannot turn that into symbolic metaphor. It doesn't work that way. Thus this event of God's consuming fire will be a real literal destruction upon the wicked on this earth at the last day of this world, as written in many Scriptures (Zephaniah 3:8; 1 Thessalonians 5 about the "sudden destruction"; Ezekiel 38:15-23; Zephaniah 1:14-18; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 19 with God's cup of wrath; etc.).

Your linking those New Testament verses is totally irrelevant with those, because He is speaking of literal rains from the sky upon their lands, and it's not a metaphor for the living waters of God's River. The Zechariah 14 Scripture is Christ's future Millennium timing, not this present world timing. See what Jesus said to the Church of Philadelphia in Revelation 3:9. That "synagogue of Satan" being made to come worship at the feet of His elect is what time this Zechariah event is about. That is when those rebellious will bow to Christ.

Once again, those left that came up against Jerusalem is not about believers, it's about Christ's enemies, and the nations of the unsaved during Christ's future thousand years reign of Revelation 20.

it is late here. Have they come against His? Then have they not come against New Jerusalem? John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit (One)and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. (As one)

“neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed”

can only think of one fruit which is not consumed and it is the fruit of the Spirit of God which is the fruit of Life.

VictoryinJesus · Dec 27, 2020

Davy said:
and it's not a metaphor for the living waters of God's River.

is the Living waters of God’s River, The Son?
Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

The Living water God’s River and God’s River Living water...
John 16:27-30 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I (water of Life)came out from God. [28] I (water of Life) came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. [29] His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. [30] Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou (the Living water) camest forth from God.

VictoryinJesus · Dec 27, 2020

Davy said:
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
KJV

shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit ... and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

not sure how you insist it has to be literal trees that will be for fruit ...instead of the fruit of the Spirit of God —the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance, (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; the manner of fruit, His fruit, thereof shall be meat...the leaf thereof for medicine: 1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

(Imo) to reduce fruit, His meat, to apple and oranges is to remove all the promises and hope in ‘will neither be consumed’ nor ‘fades not’ but is healing for the nations.

to insist in one place of literal trees and literal fruit and even so also on ‘a pure River’.

yet do you say the axe in laid unto the root of the trees are literal trees as well.

Deuteronomy 20:19-20 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life ) to employ them in the siege: [20] Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, (which bear no fruit)thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued. (Subdued unto who?)

Matthew 3:10-12
[10] And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: [12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

“the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down,”...what fruit is to be brought forth? apples and oranges or the fruit of the Spirit of God? The axe is laid to the root of the trees ...what trees?

Psalm 1:1-4 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. [2] But his delight is in the law of the Lord ; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. [3] And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. [4] The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

Luke 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

John 15:7-9 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. [8] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. [9] As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

(Isaiah 44:1-28)

So what Fruit is for meat? (Consumed not or destroyed by an all consuming fire, but remains when tried by the fire)?
What leaf is for medicine (healing of the nations)(that fades not away)...what trees bear fruit if not those trees planted of the Lord? What incorruptible seed planted grows and increases and bears fruit and meat and heals?

Ziggy · Dec 27, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
When the Pharisees, unless I’ve misunderstood, were before the Lord teaching one must eat of his flesh and drink of his blood...which when those heard, even his disciples, they had never heard such a thing before. John 6:32-34 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. [33] For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. [34] Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

John chapter. The miracle of the 5 loaves and 2 fishes. That is the foundation of this question.
Now after many people from all around had gathered and ate of the bread which Jesus break and distributed,
Jhn 6:14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.

Those men:
Jhn 6:1 After these things Jesus went over the sea of Galilee, which is the sea of Tiberias.
Jhn 6:2 And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased.

Now these men got excited by the miracles and so:
Jhn 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain
himself alone.

During this time the disciples decided to go fishing.. Jesus wasn't with them. This is the night a storm came and Jesus walked on water.
Then the following day:

Jhn 6:22 The day following, when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was none other boat there, save that one whereinto his disciples were entered, and that Jesus went not with his disciples into the boat, but that his disciples were gone away alone;
Jhn 6:23 (Howbeit there came other boats from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they did eat bread, after that the Lord had given thanks

Jhn 6:24 When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus.

Jhn 6:25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?
Jhn 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

So these aren't Pharisees, they are just men from Tiberias who were following Jesus.
Tiberias = "from the Tiber (as river-god)"
a city of Galilee near the Lake of Gennesaret, which Herod Antipas, tetrarch of Galilee, greatly enlarged and beautified, and named Tiberias in honour of Tiberias Caesar
It is now called Tubariyeh, a poor and wretched town of about 3,000 inhabitants, swarming with fleas for which the place is notorious throughout Syria:

One more thing I would like to add about Tiberias. This is the same river after the Lord's death that Peter went a fishing and the Lord met them on the beach:

Jhn 21:1 After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.
Jhn 21:4 But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
Jhn 21:5 Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.

The same location as the miracle of loaves and fishes. Have ye any meat? ...... No.
Tiberias = "from the Tiber (as river-god)"

Jesus, not only Lord of the Sabbath but of the river also

They wanted more bread.. Jesus' response..
next

JohnDB · Dec 27, 2020

There exists water and types of water in scriptures symbolising various things

Living water is flowing water...like a river, stream or spring. Every mikveh (Baptism ritual for priests) was made out of flowing water.

Also water was a symbol for Law.

Ziggy · Dec 27, 2020

Jesus is replying to the men seeking his miracles from Tiberias:

Jhn 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Have to make a note of.. God the Father sealed... seal up those things Daniel... or sealed with the Holy Spirit.. or the Seal of the Testimony?
That's probably another shovel.. anywho.. back to bread.

Now Jesus just got finished telling them, it's not because of the miracles but because you ate bread that you seek me.
And then they say.. like they got wax in their ears or something..

Jhn 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So from verse 1 these guys seen miracles of healing, miracles of feeding crowds.. I don't know if they witnessed him walking on water from other boats. Nevertheless, they seen these other things. And they ask him... smh

Jhn 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Jhn 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

so we have some really blind and deaf people here.. This is patience.
This is the next day mind you.. Feeding 5000 with 5 loaves and 2 fishes to show us a sign.. short memories too.

Jhn 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Hmm what was Moses feeding them? Manna.. simply, we don't know what it is.. but it fills our belly.
Now these guys from Tiberias.. they have their own ship. Fishing is good industry. These aren't the poor folk.
God makes it rain on the everybody. But they seem to want to get into the bakery business because it draws more crowds than fish.

Manna was for the children in the wilderness alone. Jesus is the bread from heaven for all.
Now he calls them out:

Jhn 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Jhn 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

One thing of interest.. psht one lol.. Remember how many baskets were left over after feeding everyone?

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Now Jesus goes into the whole discussion about eating his flesh and drinking his blood to those that have just seen and believed not.
It won't matter what he says, THEY ARE NOT LISTENING.
So he got their attention by using the most offensive thing someone could say to a Jew. Eat my flesh and drink my blood.
They had NO discernment between carnal and spiritual. NONE.
Even his disciples questioned... umm, Lord, whatchutalkingbout??
So Jesus plainly says:

Jhn 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
Jhn 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Jhn 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Jesus tells them right here.. My words are LIFE. The FLESH profits NOTHING.
But he said it to mock the mockers, because He knew who believed and who had eyes to see and ears to hear.

The great falling away:

Jhn 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Jhn 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Jhn 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Peter didn't say bread and he didn't say wine.. he said WORDS of eternal life.

Hugs..
Jesus is sealed by the Father.. hmm
where's my shovel?

feasts of charity?

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