Glad to see another with that understanding.
The attack of satan on the gospel that I preach.
- Thread starter justbyfaith
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[~QUOTE="justbyfaith, post: 911062, member: 7886"]First of all, I really don't disagree with most of what this person says. But something in what I have said causes them to disagree with me.
Secondly, we find in 2 Timothy 3:16 that all scripture (including what we find in the Old Testament) is profitable for doctrine, etc.
And, in 2 Peter 1:3-4, we find that we have been given many precious promises, some of which are given in the Old Testament, by which we can become partakers of the divine nature.
This only goes to show that one does not need to always go to the New Testament for doctrine.
Your point that John the Baptist baptized for the remission of sins is a good one. I hadn't seen that or I would gave used it also.
Other than that, I see nothing in the New Testament that I might have been able to use to show forth a refutation of @Blood Bought 1953's contention that repentance is only towards God and not away from sin.
I think that I may have mentioned in some of the beginning posts of this thread that God is holy (1 Peter 1:15-16) and therefore to turn to God is to turn to holiness and therefore away from unholiness (sin); but I don't remember at this point whether or not I said that in the beginning posts of this thread or elsewhere (I suppose that I can go and check, but whatever I find, it will not lead me to edit this post).[~/QUOTE]
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First, Merry Christmas to you.
The Old Testament had been building upon the coming of the messiah. Jesus was born in Bethlehem, fulfilling the scriptures.
Jesus was asked to show them the father, and he replied, "when you have seen me you have seen the father"
He also had told them that the miracles were done by the father that was in him.
Jesus said destroy my body and in three days "I" will raise it back up.
After the death, burial, resurrection, Jesus ascended up into heaven.
Now, where exactly does Jesus stop being Father manifest in the flesh?
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
no you don't as you have gone on record here several times stating that the Son IS the Father.
I rest my case as a trinitarian would NEVER declare such oneness heresy.
TheslightestID
Active Member
Well lets look at all the religions that spawned from those very doctrines. If the bible is Gods word they therefore must all be right because is not God inerrant.
But I say that the Father is not the Son; which indicates a true distinction between the members of the Trinity.
And also, above, I have made another distinction that sets me apart from user and other Oneness adherents; I have said that, while Jesus is the Father manifested in the flesh, He is not the Father as He dwells in eternity as a Spirit without flesh.
This may confuse you if you are merely looking at words; you might see a contradiction there if that is what you are looking for. But if you read my writings as you would the Bible; seeking to reconcile every apparent contradiction: then you might come to the knowledge of the truth.
The devil fights hard against the real doctrine of the Trinity because he knows that if people are rooted and grounded in it, they will not fall for any of his cults.
My contention is primarily against the doctrine of Tritheism.
How many Gods do you have? If Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not the same Person (the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God, 1 Corinthians 12:4-6) in some way, shape or form then you have three Gods; and that is Tritheism.
But if the distinction is made in that each member of the Godhead is the same Spirit while one member is encapsulated in human flesh and the Holy Ghost is distinct from the Father in that He has lived a human life, then you have one God. And you would do well to believe in one God (James 2:19).
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He might if he were seeking common ground with Oneness believers in order that he might win them over to the doctrine of the Trinity.
How in the flippin' world did you clarify anything from that absolute demented rubbish, above, that you just offered as an explanation to your reprobate doctrine, called the trinity?
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JenniferAutumn
Member
I think some of you should take a break from these discussions if it is so stressful. It may be better to just talk with people that are posting what you believe in instead of lashing out and saying rude things to each other. I'm new to this group and to see the way everyone talks to each other is very sad to me. Hope you all had a lovely holiday.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Depends on what doctrine you are talking about. If you want to examine anything about salvation, you look to the New Testament. The Old Testament contained a shadow of Christ concealed. You can find Jesus (as Lord and Messiah) all through the Old Testament. He is more revealed in the New Covenant and repentence has the only focus on Jesus as the way, the truth and the life.
In fact, no one can repent unless they turn to Christ as the source of life.
The Old Testament more accurately defines repentance for us where the New Testament does not.
The Old Testament is therefore, "profitable for doctrine" and I would not disparage what is written in the Old Testament as concerning doctrine as it defines repentance.
It is defined, at the very least, in these passages:
Ezekiel 33:11-20, especially Ezekiel 33:19.
2 Chronicles 7:14.
I would not presume to think that none of these scriptures apply to the New Testament church; for they have a history of applying to the New Testament church.
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I put into practice all that is in the New Covenant - the Old Covenant is not mine.
The Law and the Prophets were a school master, a pedagogue pointing to Christ and His New Covenant with us.
"Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" Acts 15:10
I will not wear the yoke of the Law, and the requirements thereof - for it was not purposed for the Gentile to do so. Legalism is harmful to spiritual growth. In many of these passages that you point out, the Lord is addressing the HOUSE OF ISRAEL.
That said, I value the OT, it's foundational and supportive; the stories have morality and have many lessons within. Sin hasn't changed, the perspective of how we deal with the burden has. It is God's Word, it is profitable, but not all of it is applicable in my life.
Genesis is most important - the beginning, Our origins. The Stories of the Flood, of Moses, Abraham, Joseph, Daniel, Job are all invalueable. Proverbs has wisdom; with Psalms we praise and worship. The Prophets delivered valuable messages, warnings and rebukes for their lives and future and some for ours as well, they proved these messages were from God. Certain instructions were specifically for His chosen people. Not all of it is for us. How is Deuteronomy or Leviticus applicable to the Christian walk? Do you practice 624 laws and repenting each one?
I know that churches that spend too much time studying the Law become legalistic. Be careful with that yoke.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
You are going the completely wrong way if you are upset when men don’t approve of you. Why does this mans disapproval of you matter to you at all?
The law is basically found in the Pentateuch....what do you do with the rest of the Old Testament?
What do you say about scriptures such as Romans 15:4, 1 Corinthians 10:11, 2 Timothy 3:16, and 2 Peter 1:3-4?
My point has to do with what appears to be your rejection of the testimony of Ezekiel 33:11-20 and 2 Chronicles 7:14.
If you are saying that the Old Testament isn't profitable for doctrine, I'm afraid that you are at odds with what the Bible teaches (in 2 Timothy 3:16).
Of course it must be rightly divided.
But, are you saying that taking Ezekiel 33:11-20 and/or 2 Chronicles 7:14 literally is not rightly dividing the word of truth? Perhaps you could give your exposition of these passages as they are rightly divided; if you consider that I have wrongly divided them.
For I consider that these passages give us a sound definition of what it means to repent.
Because I have considered him to be a solid teacher in the past. However, when I began to delve into what I considered may have been a secret love of sin in his life, I began to say things that would draw out whether such a thing were so. And it proved to be the case.
But why does his disapproval matter to me? Because I would rather be on the same team. I think that he simply does not understand where I am coming from or else we would be; because for the most part I hardly disagree with any of his statements. They are technically on the up-and-up. But I decided to delve into whether those statements meant a certain thing in his life; and it turned out that they did; and as the result of that he turned on me. Before that we were friends.
Therefore I feel betrayed by him.
You may as well ask Jesus, why does it matter to you that Judas betrayed you? You ought to just forgive Judas, after all, his behaviour only put you on the Cross. Why did you say that it would be better for him if he had never been born, Lord? I thought that you were a forgiving God!
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
As I have said, we learn, receive comfort, hope, warnings and perspective, etc.
... death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye ... >>> O house of Israel?
This is directed at Israel who were under the Law. They were judged by the Law. The wages of sin is death.
14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; 15 if the wicked restore the pledge, give again that which he had taken by robbery, walk in the statutes of life, committing no iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
This repentance is strictly dealing with the Law. In the New Testament, Christ is the who we turn to for life. It is He who died for our sins. We can't just turn from sins and not die, we must turn to Christ and believe.
"if my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."
Healing is good, I'm sure many are praying for America. I kind of think judgment is coming and it's too late. You think we'll have some healing soon?
Never said that, you are using the entire Old Testament against something I said about one doctrine on repentance? Stick to your topic.
Again sin is sin, but we just don't turn away from sin and leave it at that. We turn to Christ. His power defeated sin, He fulfilled the Law for us, they could not do it, they had no power to defeat sin by just turning away from it.
More power to ya.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Yes they did. Otherwise God would not have told them to stop sinning.
God warned them over and over again; in some cases even telling them to stop sinning:
Exodus 20:20
Psalms 4:4
Psalms 68:21
Psalms 85:8
Isaiah 1:16
Jeremiah 23:22
Ezekiel 3:21
Hosea 5:4
Amos 5:14
What they could not do was rid themselves of their old sins. This is why the book of Hebrews says this:
Hebrews 10:1-4 KJVS
[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. [2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. [4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Everyone has the ability to cease from evil works. The problem back then was that there was not that perfect sacrifice that could take away sins that were committed.
We have that perfect sacrifice now in Christ Jesus.
And our conscience is clear from the guilt of sin. And those who are faithful followers will be watchful and diligent not to defile their conscience with new sins.
1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
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