Why do you reject authority?

Truther · Dec 27, 2020

Truther said:
The writer of Hebrews.....

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

...here

atpollard · Dec 27, 2020

Marymog said:
So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?

In the 14th Century, an attempt was begun to reform a Church leadership that had become fully apostate to the teachings of Christ ... going as far as Cardinals and Popes with harems and looting the treasury of the church to enrich their politically connected families. Those that opposed the abuse of the “sheep” were hunted down and executed as Heretics for suggesting reforms that even the Church embraced as a last resort when their corruption had torn the church apart. In the 16th Century, men arose and advocated a return to the Church that God has established in His Holy Word rather than one that ruled through ignorance and fear to sell salvation to the masses and fund the hedonism of the Bishops and Cardinals. The Church responded like it always had ... it labeled them heretics and ordered them killed. However, a strange event had occurred by then. Gutenberg had invented printing with movable type and the Bible had been translated into vernacular languages. As a result, many people now knew what God’s word actually says and could see the evil within the church for themselves. The result was that those that attempted to reform the Church were expelled from the church and left with no option but to pursue God apart from the apostate church leadership.

When the Church finally reformed the evil within itself a century later, it proclaimed those that had chosen to love God more than a corrupt clergy “anathema” and sealed forever the division within the Church between the early reformers and the later reformers. It is the same “church” that cast out the Eastern Brothers that cast out the Reforming Brothers and now blames both groups for “leaving the Church”.

Just as soon as you acknowledge in word and deed that Christ is head of His Body and the current Bishop of Rome is not Christ, you can rejoin the rest of the body that serves our Heavenly King and no earthly king. However this separation is by and of Rome’s making.

(PS. You still punish priests that attempt to expose abuse rather that covering it up to protect the Church. So Rome has learned nothing.)

Marymog · Dec 27, 2020

Backlit said:
The constitution guarantees religious liberty... Freedom of conscience. Catholicism, as it is being promoted on this thread and others in this forum, is an attack on the constitution and freedom of conscience. Protestants do not appreciate the danger their nation is in while they have a majority Catholic representation on the USSC, and numerous Catholics on prominent Government positions whose loyalties, if they are members of Knights of Columbus or Malta etc, are n not to the United States, but to a foreign power in Rome. The former attorney general W Barr was one such short true loyalties were often questioned and remain in doubt. The loyalties of those Catholics on this thread demanding Protestants here to surrender to Roman authority are not in doubt.

Sooooo I should surrender to Protestant authority??? Which Protestant teaching should I adhere to? Baptism saves....baptism doesn't save! Real Presence in the Eucharist....the Eucharist is just a symbol.....OR I don't need the Eucharist at all!! Some Protestants (the Reformers) believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin.....Some Protestants don't!!

Sooooo if I were to adhere to Protestant authority I can pick or choose which teaching I like......which makes ME the final authority.

See how your theory needs some work??

Mary

Marymog · Dec 27, 2020

atpollard said:
In the 14th Century, an attempt was begun to reform a Church leadership that had become fully apostate to the teachings of Christ ... going as far as Cardinals and Popes with harems and looting the treasury of the church to enrich their politically connected families. Those that opposed the abuse of the “sheep” were hunted down and executed as Heretics for suggesting reforms that even the Church embraced as a last resort when their corruption had torn the church apart. In the 16th Century, men arose and advocated a return to the Church that God has established in His Holy Word rather than one that ruled through ignorance and fear to sell salvation to the masses and fund the hedonism of the Bishops and Cardinals. The Church responded like it always had ... it labeled them heretics and ordered them killed. However, a strange event had occurred by then. Gutenberg had invented printing with movable type and the Bible had been translated into vernacular languages. As a result, many people now knew what God’s word actually says and could see the evil within the church for themselves. The result was that those that attempted to reform the Church were expelled from the church and left with no option but to pursue God apart from the apostate church leadership.

When the Church finally reformed the evil within itself a century later, it proclaimed those that had chosen to love God more than a corrupt clergy “anathema” and sealed forever the division within the Church between the early reformers and the later reformers. It is the same “church” that cast out the Eastern Brothers that cast out the Reforming Brothers and now blames both groups for “leaving the Church”.

Just as soon as you acknowledge in word and deed that Christ is head of His Body and the current Bishop of Rome is not Christ, you can rejoin the rest of the body that serves our Heavenly King and no earthly king. However this separation is by and of Rome’s making.

(PS. You still punish priests that attempt to expose abuse rather that covering it up to protect the Church. So Rome has learned nothing.)

Ok atpollard....I will accept your theory.

As of right now I "acknowledge in word and deed that Christ is head of His Body and the current Bishop of Rome is not Christ". That was pretty easy since The Church does not teach that....

But let's pretend that I left The Church TODAY to join "the rest of the body that serves our Heavenly King". Where do I go to do this? Whose interpretation of Scripture should I believe is the True interpretation? You Protestants have sooooo many contradicting teachings I can't figure which one is the True teacing......

Who's authority do you accept?

Curious Mary

PS...atpollard? What does that stand for?

Marymog · Dec 27, 2020

Backlit said:
Which ironically is frowned upon in Catholic circles. Proselytizing they call it. One wonders why so many are here.

Oh goodness backlit....another anti-Catholic lie....

Google Praedicate Evangelium instead of listening to the men who are lying to you!!!

I suspect you won't apologize either.....

Truther · Dec 27, 2020

Marymog said:
Sooooo I should surrender to Protestant authority??? Which Protestant teaching should I adhere to? Baptism saves....baptism doesn't save! Real Presence in the Eucharist....the Eucharist is just a symbol.....OR I don't need the Eucharist at all!! Some Protestants (the Reformers) believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin.....Some Protestants don't!!

Sooooo if I were to adhere to Protestant authority I can pick or choose which teaching I like......which makes ME the final authority.

See how your theory needs some work??

Mary

I will teach you. No worries.

Marymog · Dec 27, 2020

Truther said:
I will teach you. No worries.

And when does your infallible teaching from a fallible man start?

BreadOfLife · Dec 27, 2020

quietthinker said:
my sect??

Yes, whichever splinter group you belong to.
ALL Protestant sects are splinters or splinters of splinters of tbe Catholic Church.

BreadOfLife · Dec 27, 2020

Truther said:
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Great.
Now, show me where it talks about the WRITTEN Word of God being our "Sole" Authority.

THEN, we can have an intelligent conversation . . .

David H. · Dec 27, 2020

Marymog said:
I wonder if Paul was using manipulation and mind control?

St. Paul and his companions attended the temple on the Sabbath, but “the breaking of bread” occurred in the house “churches” of Christians. “The breaking of bread,” is a Eucharistic phrase in St. Luke’s writings. For example, when St. Paul was in Troas in Acts 20:7, we read: “On the first day of the week, when we gathered together to break bread…” Luke 24:30-31 records Cleopas and an unnamed disciple’s “eyes were opened” and they recognized Jesus “in the breaking of the bread.” And according to Luke 24:1, 13, this encounter was also on the first day of the week! St. Paul never says, “On the Sabbath, when we gathered to break bread.” Instead, the “breaking of bread” in Luke 24 and in Acts 20 occurs on the first day of the week; Sunday!!

For, in the first place, when you assemble as a church… it is not the Lord’s Supper that you eat. For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal, and one is hungry and another is drunk. What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God…For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it. (I Cor. 11:18-23)

Soooooo those “homes” were actually house “churches” in which “the breaking of bread” happened, and it happened on the first day of the week: Sunday.

You should practice what Paul is trying to manipulate you into doing...

Excuse me, I did not bring up anything about the Sabbath or the controversy surrounding it. Your argument here is off topic, and I was speaking to a Jehovah's witness, not you. Obviously this comment "irked you" in some way, perhaps because I tied the hierarchy of the Catholic church to the hierarchy of the Watchtower society, Because they use the same manipulation and mind control to keep their followers in line, yet are in denial of their manipulation they are under. Both organizations have the same hierarchichal structure, and claim the same divine inspiration and authority, One just has Pope, the other has A society. They Both use a tool known as Mystical manipulation to control their followers. What is mystical manipulation? Read the following link as it will explain it.

Eight Ways to Identify Religious Brainwashing: Mystical Manipulation (Part 2 of 8) | Liberty for Captives

Waiting on him · Dec 27, 2020

Marymog said:
I counted 3 questions in my post and you didn't respond to any of them. Why is that?

I hope your sitting down: You tell YOU what you should think. You follow your teachings. How is that working out for ya'?

No, I let Jesus teach, because He is my authority. Now, if He was liar and not here as you teach, then I would be teaching myself as you claim.

Waiting on him · Dec 27, 2020

Marymog said:
I counted 3 questions in my post and you didn't respond to any of them. Why is that?

I hope your sitting down: You tell YOU what you should think. You follow your teachings. How is that working out for ya'?

As to how it is working out for me, well, I’m not affiliated in any way with Godless murderers, child molesters, boaters, adulterers..... etc....

BreadOfLife · Dec 27, 2020

Backlit said:
What this entire discussion is about... Ecclesiastical authority in the context of Catholicism... Strikes at the very heart of Protestantism and American constitutional law. The God given right for every man to worship according to his or her own conscience. The Catholic hierarchy has hated the constitution since it's inception because it is an affront to Catholic global supremacy. View attachment 12305 View attachment 12305 View attachment 12306 View attachment 12307

The constitution guarantees religious liberty... Freedom of conscience. Catholicism, as it is being promoted on this thread and others in this forum, is an attack on the constitution and freedom of conscience. Protestants do not appreciate the danger their nation is in while they have a majority Catholic representation on the USSC, and numerous Catholics on prominent Government positions whose loyalties, if they are members of Knights of Columbus or Malta etc, are n not to the United States, but to a foreign power in Rome. The former attorney general W Barr was one such short true loyalties were often questioned and remain in doubt. The loyalties of those Catholics on this thread demanding Protestants here to surrender to Roman authority are not in doubt.

What a lying load of manure . .

I am in the Knights of Columbus - and one of the MAIN tenets of the K of C is Patriotism. Charity, Unity, FraternIty and Patriotism are the principles of the K of C. As for your charge that the Church has always "hated" the constitution - this is omplete nonsense as well. Not ONLY did I learn about the Constitution in a Catholic school - TWO of the signers of this documemt were Catholics - Daniel Carroll and Thomas Fitzsimmons.

THIS is wjy I refer to people like YOU as "Anti-Catholics". NOT because you simpoy "disagree" with the Church - but because you have to resort to LYING to make your points. In cse you forgot - God HATES dishonesty . . .
Exod. 20:16
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

Rev. 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters,
and ALL LIARS, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Waiting on him · Dec 27, 2020

Marymog said:
Apostolic Succession....

I’d rather sit with Christ in His throne.

this is the problem though, you would appear to rather impose you religious system on me. I you’ll take notice, I have no religious system that I’m trying to impose on you.

do as you wish.

BreadOfLife · Dec 27, 2020

Waiting on him said:
As to how it is working out for me, well, I’m not affiliated in any way with Godless murderers, child molesters, boaters, adulterers..... etc....

What "denomination", religious affiliation or faith tradition do you come from, then?

Are you a "Lone Ranger" Christian? Because if you ARE - that is completely anti-Biblical.

Waiting on him · Dec 27, 2020

So, if I were to submit to Catholic authority, would this mean that Christ in me is also under their authority, because let’s face it, if no one succeeded to these men’s authority they’d have no cause to glory.

Waiting on him · Dec 27, 2020

BreadOfLife said:
What "denomination", religious affiliation or faith tradition do you come from, then?

Are you a "Lone Ranger" Christian? Because if you ARE - that is completely anti-Biblical.

I’m not claiming autonomy or any isolated denomination, I’m governed by The Christ.

Marymog · Dec 27, 2020

Waiting on him said:
I’d rather sit with Christ in His throne.

this is the problem though, you would appear to rather impose you religious system on me. I you’ll take notice, I have no religious system that I’m trying to impose on you.

do as you wish.

No argument there. I think all Christians would rather sit with Christ on his throne.....that is what we call a mute point.

What is your definition of a "religious system"?

Marymog · Dec 27, 2020

Waiting on him said:
As to how it is working out for me, well, I’m not affiliated in any way with Godless murderers, child molesters, boaters, adulterers..... etc....

Hmmmm......your not affiliated with ANY denomination???? You sit in your dark basement reading and interpreting the bible instead of relying on other men to interpret it for you???

Fascinating....I guess your interpretation will never be wrong since you will always convince yourself that the Holy Spirit guided you to the truth!!

Mary

Marymog · Dec 27, 2020

Waiting on him said:
No, I let Jesus teach, because He is my authority. Now, if He was liar and not here as you teach, then I would be teaching myself as you claim.

Oh, you let Jesus teach you? That's a novel idea. You are the first Christian to claim that in 2,000 years.

Can you explain 1 thing for me WOH???? (I know you can't but it will be fun to see you try) There have been THOUSANDS of people that have claimed the same thing you just claimed. They, like you, believe Jesus is teaching them......Why do you all disagree with each other in what Jesus is teaching???? Is it really Jesus or Satan that is talking to you??? Is Jesus the king of confusion or is it satan........I know Jesus isn't confused sooooo it must be all of you that claim Jesus as your personal teacher!!!

Mary

Why do you reject authority?

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