the ages of the heaven and earth

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betchevy

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I just re-read Swampsfox's study of the Three ages of the Earth and would like to open a discussion of it in this thread. I would like to also add this preface you must have read the study to participate in the discussion of the study.The most wonderful thing I find about these concepts is the fact that inside each of us is a spiritual body, waiting to be released and returned to the Father. Secondly this teaching answered the questions I had about dinosaurs and why they were not taken on the ark. The last point I'd like to make at this time is I can't wait til the last age, when we will have perfect spiritual bodies again, and I hope God has a great assignment for me. I'd like to work with animals, but knowing God's sense of humor, I'll be some great thinker from this age's teacher....arghhhhh, lol.
 

betchevy

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Stong Condordance 1977 state this as 430 Elloeem Plural of 433 (rarely)(diety) gods in the ordinary sense( rule this one out) but specifically used of the supreme God ....angelsx eceeding. God.So God in Genesis 1 is speaking to his angels the Wwword indicates He was there with His angels there and when He say to them in verse 26...Let us make man in our image... He is speaking to the angels... what can we drw from this...1. the angels were there during creation, 2. God and the angels look somewhat alike(our image)Genesis 1:26 And God said: Let us make man in our image and after our likeness, let him have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creepeth on the earth. This is on the sixth day... this man is the hunter gatherer... and he has no dominion over the Garden, but only the rest of the earth. the cattle in the Strongs is 929 a dumb beast any large quadrupled legged beast... so four legged animals...So God and the angels were there together God renewed the earth, remade the things on the earth and made men in their image...they gave this man an ability to subdue the animals of the earth. The 6th days ends, they all rest...The sabbath day is created on the seveth day... God and the angels rested...
 

John

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Hello I would dis agree with your conclusion I believe this is a discussion between God the Father and God the son. Remember John 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. notice here it say, nothing that has been made was made without him. Meaning to me, that he could not have been created, but he is the creator So to me Elohim =God the Father,God the Son and God the holy spirit. When God the Father says lets make man in our image, I believe he is talking to God the Son
 

betchevy

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I like the way that you draw conclusions, I agree that Christ was there in the beginning, but the Word was written in aramaic language that says it includes when plural, the angels and that is the premise of the study. John,I am not asking you to totally accept everything in the study, but I am asking you to use the wonderful mind God has given you to look at these premises and see if they make sense, because you have a sensible mind. Its a good God given strength, and you have been taught some things that do not hold true when you look at the orignal language. Can we agree that the verses in question were written in aramaic, the word Eloheem is plural and according to this study we take that to mean as agreed by definition that God was speaking to the angels.. that is the premise, use your mind to think of things in that way. I think we need to look at the orignal texts to get at truth, not continue in tradition for traditions sake. Just because Jesus was there, do you think the angels could not have been and that God definately did not speak to them as the word elloheem indicates? Because that is what eloheem means in the Hebrew, plural God and the angels...
 

John

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Hello I am sorry that I don't quite understand how you have come to the conclusion Elohiym means God is speaking to his angels. I have never been a very good English student, so Hebrew and Aramaic will slow me down a little If you think I am following tradition for the sake of tradition, then be specific so, I can examine myself and see if you are right. That is what is great about a forum like this. You can see what others believe and then you have a chance to examine your own beliefs and check them with scripture. If I question you, Please don't take offense. Show me where you think I am wrongI listen, I may not agree, but I do listen To answer your question I think it is possible angels were there,But I don't think it is who God is talking to. If I say to you lets go for a walk, or lets make a cake or lets have some coffee, it is something we are doing together. Lets go.We go together. That to me means, when the Father says lets make man in our image. He has to be talking to the one who can create man. The Son through whom all things were made. God can not say to the Angels lets create there is only one creator. I am sure the angels were there Worshiping him praising him loving him. I just am not sure that every time you see Elohiym, that means the angels are also present Elohiym is used many times in the bible We see Elohiym speaking to Abraham does this mean the Angels are present. I believe Elohyim is referring to the God head
 

betchevy

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So the angels were there in the time of the renewal of the earth... they had lived on the earth before and had been through the Katabol or the great shaking when god had stopped all life on earth. The premise I need you to see is that the bodies of these angel look like the bodies of men. Infact they are so close that one day when you are in heaven in a spiritual body you will be able to recognize your loved one also in a spiritual body. WHY? because we look like the same spiritual body we occupied before the Katabol..The spirit man in each of us IS that spiritual body entrapped inside this flesh. The moment we die, that spirit is freed to go to the Father and be judged. We live in Texas and have gone to a park outside Dallas, where ther are footprints of dinosaurs and also footprints of men huge men footprint in this same river bed of rock. Perfect feet, no sign of wear or scaring. These are the footprints left by the spiritual bodies living on the earth at the time of the dinosaurs.... See them in Grove Park, Texas...The spirits are either of those who followed Satan or did not.. the Word says 1/3 did, God made flesh bodies, so He didn't have to destroy this 1/3 of the angelic bodies...Okay, lets talk about this and see if we can go on.....
 

John

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I believe that there could be a gap between verse 1 and verse 2. I have always felt it was possible that Satan and the angels dwelt on earth in a time before man and in this time Satan rebelled against God and was thrown down with 1/3 of the angels. I believe this to be possible. I believe the fallen angels may be what we call demons. I don't believe you have given me enough information, to believe that man has existed before as fallen angels. This to me seems to much like reincarnation
 

betchevy

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PLEASE READ THE STUDIES AT THE TOP OF THE SITE!!!That way you will know what I am talking about. The true sin in the garden the 3 earth ages, would be a good start...I hope many more that John join us in this discussion and study...
 

betchevy

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There is appointed unto men once to live and once to die... it is not reincarnation....
 

John

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QUOTE]There is appointed unto men once to live and once to die... it is not reincarnation.... Yesterday 09:19 PM [/QUOTE]That is exactly my point. The study is teaching that we all lived before in an earlier age.
So what was the first earth age? This first age was inhabited by us, but not in the flesh form in which we are now. As Genesis tells us later, God created our current bodies from the dust of the earth. We had no physical bodies but animals did exist. This explains the remains of fossils found on this earth that date back millions of years but the lack of any human remains that date back so long.

We had bodies, but in the form of spiritual bodies. When we died, we returned to God just as well will when we die in this age. We're now in two bodies. There is the soul, which returns to God, and then there is the physical body which returns to dust.

I'll step aside here and make a point. I'm definitely not proporting any sort of reincarnation. We're here in the second age as humans to make the ultimate decision. You are either for God, or against God. There is no middle ground. We do not know what we did in the first age, God has placed a veil around this, we're here to make our decision in this age. Think of this age as a proving ground to find our true allegiance. You have the free will to make your choice. Satan also has the ability to tempt and deceive us once again
.I don't have a problem with an earlier age, My problem is with that fact that we were here before. Why isn't this reincarnation? Because its a different age? It is suggested that we are here to make the ultimate discussion, we are for God or against him. Why is it assumed that the angels that fell didn't have to make the same choice. Scripture says that they rebelled against God, it seems to me that they did make a choice. They knew God and rebelled.They also made the ultimate discussion I think it makes more sense that the fallen angels are evil spirits we see in the bible or demons and not spirit man given another chance
 

betchevy

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John said:""I don't have a problem with an earlier age, My problem is with that fact that we were here before. Why isn't this reincarnation? Because its a different age?""Because we were not flesh... God created all souls at that time souls are not flesh, but spirit..Once to live and once to die (in the flesh.) my addition.JOhn said""It is suggested that we are here to make the ultimate discussion, we are for God or against him. Why is it assumed that the angels that fell didn't have to make the same choice. Scripture says that they rebelled against God, it seems to me that they did make a choice. They knew God and rebelled.They also made the ultimate discussion""God loves all his creation, and didn't want to destroy any.. this is his plan oterwise, he could have just done away with them AND NOT MADE FLESH MEN AT ALL the angels that fell get their chance just as every one does.John said"""" I think it makes more sense that the fallen angels are evil spirits we see in the bible or demons and not spirit man given another chance[/QUOTE]""""The evil sprits come from the Nephellium who refuse to be born of woman, but instead came to earth and mated with her instead.., These are the same who will return with Satan...Its the spirit that inhabits the souls are in heaven under Michaels care until the end when he kicks them out to here. Spirit is so foregn to us, it is sooo hard to understand, but we know the Spoirit of God, and the spirit of evil...both exist here, but we don't see a physical being, because they are not in this deminsion with us. Until god sends them for the very end.of this age. these are doom to be destroyed with Satan they made their choiceto not obey to become flesh.John, I so much appreicate you willingness to look at this. I will be praying for you this it very deep and you wiill need Gods help to get it. I wish I could give you a big hug for trying and having such a sweetness about things you cannot see as truth..
 

HammerStone

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It's not reincarnation because the spirit is separate from the soul and Ecclesiastes 12, as just one example, documents that. One cannot be reincarnated into something that you were never incarnated into in the first place.Think about Jesus in John as well. There are two births in this life, but man is only given to die once.Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:There are also two deaths and again that's scripturally documented in the book of Revelation on several occasions (amongst others). I'm sure that you're familiar with them. In each respective case, there is no contradiction.I see a little confusion here about the fallen angels. Ezekiel 28 tells us about Satan and his condemnation of turning to ashes from within. He is the leader of the rebellion if you will. All the others were followers. Everyone has their choice and this age is the chance to get it right. The fallen angels, Hebrew nephilim, are those that have chosen not to enter into this world born into a flesh body. They defied and will continue to defy God in future - for the end times will be like the days of Noe (Noah) according to Matthew 24:37-38 and Luke 17:26.
 

John

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Thank you bets for the kind wordsI would have to ask ,why do you think that, when God created man he didn't create him body soul and spirit, why do you believe that we lived and died before.Quote:We had bodies, but in the form of spiritual bodies. When we died, we returned to God just as well will when we die in this age. We're now in two bodies. There is the soul, which returns to God, and then there is the physical body which returns to dust. I thought the spirit could not die but live forever with God in heaven or without God in Hell. I would also like to ask if the fallen angels knew God ,did they see him and hear him, were they ever in his presents ?
 

HammerStone

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I would also like to ask if the fallen angels knew God ,did they see him and hear him, were they ever in his presents ?
We have a thread here about "What is heaven?" - and we've talked about it other times - you'll find that according to Scripture it is where the throne of God is right now. If these angels have fallen from heaven and intermingled with the daughters of men (Genesis 6) then there's your answer. Yes, they chose in this age to not enter into the flesh body. This bothers a lot of people, but the book of Job documents that even Satan himself stands before God.
 

John

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If the spirit of man comes from fallen angels, and they were in the presents of God How do we explain this scripturesJohn 646No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. Jesus is speaking here about the time he was with the Father before his incarnation only he has seen the Father If we were spirits of fallen angels then, as you have said, we would also have seen the Father and we also would have been from the Father. This also brings up another subject If no one has seen the Father, then who walked, with Adam, and Abraham and so on, but we can discuss that another time
 

Christina

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(John;8743)
If the spirit of man comes from fallen angels, and they were in the presents of God How do we explain this scripturesJohn 646No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. Jesus is speaking here about the time he was with the Father before his incarnation only he has seen the Father If we were spirits of fallen angels then, as you have said, we would also have seen the Father and we also would have been from the Father. This also brings up another subject If no one has seen the Father, then who walked, with Adam, and Abraham and so on, but we can discuss that another time
I think there is some confusion here angels and men are different creatureswe are made in the likeness of God and the angles. Only a third of the angles rebelled (fell from grace)and followed Satan and are still with him.These fallen(rebelling angles) saw the daughters of men and found them attractive and mated with them resulting in a race of Giants Gen 6:4. If men and angles were the same it would not have been a sin for them to mate. It was this race of hybrids Nephillium that was the reason for the flood. This was Satans attempt to foil the blood line Christ would eventually come through. Noah's family being the only Pure blood line left,all others had been defiled by this mating with the Angles. does this help at all with your questions?
 

John

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Kriss, If i am confused I apologize, but it seems to me that this lesson is teaching, that our spirits came from the fallen Angels
God told us what happened to the first age here through Jeremiah. This destruction was much greater than that of the flood of Noah. God's wrath was incurred because 1/3 of his children rebelled about him. However, in God's truly amazing Grace, he withheld destruction and gave us a second chance. Think about it like this. If you had three kids and one of them rebelled completely from you, could you ever bring yourself to kill them? God gave us a second chance in this second age!
Quote:So what was the first earth age? This first age was inhabited by us, but not in the flesh form in which we are now. As Genesis tells us later, God created our current bodies from the dust of the earth. We had no physical bodies but animals did exist. This explains the remains of fossils found on this earth that date back millions of years but the lack of any human remains that date back so long. Quote:We had bodies, but in the form of spiritual bodies. When we died, we returned to God just as well will when we die in this age. We're now in two bodies. There is the soul, which returns to God, and then there is the physical body which returns to dust. Quote:I'll step aside here and make a point. I'm definitely not proporting any sort of reincarnation. We're here in the second age as humans to make the ultimate decision. You are either for God, or against God. There is no middle ground. We do not know what we did in the first age, God has placed a veil around this, we're here to make our decision in this age. Think of this age as a proving ground to find our true allegiance. You have the free will to make your choice. Satan also has the ability to tempt and deceive us once again I don't agree with this theory but am always willing to look and listenagain if I misunderstood my apologies
 

Christina

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I see why you are confused John. I know this and I'm confused by the above posts. I know whem Satan rebelled he took 1/3 of the angls with him. Angels are Gods chidren also.
 

Christina

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here is another study that might help explain thingsFirst Earth Age: The first earth age was the time spoken of in Genesis 1:1, II Peter 3, and Jeremiah 4:18 to the end of the chapter. Mankind did not exist in the flesh, however the animal world did. It was far more expanded then what is common in this earth age. An example of this is in the elephant world, where there are three known species existing today, living in the world. In the first earth age, there were over thirty types that have been dug up. All souls were created in the first earth age, and lived in what we call their soul bodies. The reason that we find no fossils today dating back beyond 6,000 to 10,000 years is because man did not exist in the flesh body. All souls were in existence then.It was also in the first earth age that Satan, the most beautiful of all angels allowed his pride to overcome him, and the fall, of not only Satan came, but one third of all souls that existed then also fell. This brought about the Fall of Satan, and the end of the first age. It is because of that fall, or "toho the destruction, where by all animals and living forms on earth came to an end.Second Earth Age: The second earth age started with Genesis 1:2, and God's plan of reconstruction of this earth, and all that was to live on it, began. This is the age of the flesh, whereby all souls were required to be born of woman, from the womb, [of water, within the womb] And be tried and tested, and for this God gave each soul what is called "free-will". They had the right to chose God, or Satan. However there are some that were special in this earth age, for they are the ones that took a stand against Satan's rebellion against God, and thus they were judged and set aside in that first earth age, and those people are what we call the "elect".The purpose of God sending a Son to be born of woman, was established before the start of this flesh age, for God laid his plan out in the constellations in the heavens, and that is what the signs of the ages are. Now it is important to know that the races were created separate and prior to Adamic, or "ruddy complected man", and it was through the Adamic race that God selected to send His Son, through the womb of woman, Mary. This is why it was forbidden of mixed marriages in the beginning, for Satan had polluted mankind with his sexual union with Eve, and from that union came Cain, and his offspring,and the Kenites.Heres another viewhttp://www.loveyah.com/eterpst.htmmaybe looking at these thee view it will become a clearer picture to you