You just throw verses around out of context, But what you are really saying by your own words is you are really not a true Christian you are just an accuser Of Christians, Only God and the individual know if they are Saved its no-one elses business, but by your own words and Judgment you expose and trap yourself, Don't you see that
SinSinSin
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You just throw verses around out of context, But what you are really saying by your own words is you are really not a true Christian you are just an accuser Of Christians, Only God and the individual know if they are Saved its no-one elses business, but by your own words and Judgment you expose and trap yourself, Don't you see that
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
For proof that Christians can lose their connection with Jesus and be lost, read John 15:1-6. There Christ explains one of the great mysteries of eternal life. "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." Verses 5, 6.
The secret of continued life is continued abiding. If a person does not abide in Christ, he withers, dies, and is finally burned up. This proves that the relation of a believer to Christ is never a static thing based only on a past experience. It is a current, mutual sharing of a common life which is drawn from Him "who is our life" (Colossians 3:4). When the branch is separated from the vine, the source of life is gone, and only death can result. These words of Jesus are too clear to be misconstrued. Even believing, trusting Christians who are connected to the living vine may choose to separate from the vine. When they do, they die and will be cast into the fire and burned. Nothing can wither and die that has not previously been alive.
Jesus taught the same solemn truth about losing eternal life in the parable of the sower. In explaining the seed which fell among the thorns and the rocks, Jesus said, "Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away." Luke 8:12-13.
There are several things to note about this parable. First, only one class will finally be saved - the ones who brought forth much fruit. The groups represented by the wayside and rocks will not be saved. In verse 12, the wayside hearers did not have a chance to "believe and be saved," but in the next verse the stony ground hearers do "for a while believe." What kind of "believing" is this? According to verse 12, it is the kind that saves. So the ones who believed for a while were saved for a while, but in time of temptation they fell away. Eventually, of course, they were lost along with all the others, except the fruit-bearers. Here is an unequivocal teaching of our Lord that people can have a saving faith for a while, and yet lose it and be lost.
The secret of continued life is continued abiding. If a person does not abide in Christ, he withers, dies, and is finally burned up. This proves that the relation of a believer to Christ is never a static thing based only on a past experience. It is a current, mutual sharing of a common life which is drawn from Him "who is our life" (Colossians 3:4). When the branch is separated from the vine, the source of life is gone, and only death can result. These words of Jesus are too clear to be misconstrued. Even believing, trusting Christians who are connected to the living vine may choose to separate from the vine. When they do, they die and will be cast into the fire and burned. Nothing can wither and die that has not previously been alive.
Jesus taught the same solemn truth about losing eternal life in the parable of the sower. In explaining the seed which fell among the thorns and the rocks, Jesus said, "Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away." Luke 8:12-13.
There are several things to note about this parable. First, only one class will finally be saved - the ones who brought forth much fruit. The groups represented by the wayside and rocks will not be saved. In verse 12, the wayside hearers did not have a chance to "believe and be saved," but in the next verse the stony ground hearers do "for a while believe." What kind of "believing" is this? According to verse 12, it is the kind that saves. So the ones who believed for a while were saved for a while, but in time of temptation they fell away. Eventually, of course, they were lost along with all the others, except the fruit-bearers. Here is an unequivocal teaching of our Lord that people can have a saving faith for a while, and yet lose it and be lost.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
The apostle Matthew, in Matthew 2:15, took a verse out of context (Hosea 11:1) and applied to Jesus as being the Son of God when in the original context it was referring to Israel as the son of God.
In 2 Corinthians 9:6, taking it in its immediate context can give you an interpretation that is line with the word of faith teaching about sowing and planting financial seeds. But if you apply the hermeneutic of 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv), taking it out of context by applying a topical context of Luke 8:11, you can come up with a more orthodox interpretation.
I am accusing no one...however I will admit that I desire to strip away from false believers any false assurances that they may have of going to heaven; in order that they might come to a true knowledge of what it takes to enter into heaven and enter in through that door.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Now that's just good stuff. Absolutely brilliant. Kudos. No kidding.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Hermeneutics 101- the N.T. interprets the O.T. when its being quoted. Just sayin............Now that's just good stuff. Absolutely brilliant. Kudos. No kidding.
Except that the specific verse in the O.T. already had interpreted itself...so it is clear that Matthew took it out of context.
Of course, he did so under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit...
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but when's the last time you've seen the out-of-context thing presented so skillfully.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
hahaYeah, but when's the last time you've seen the out-of-context thing presented so skillfully.
FYI . . . those large fonts make it kinda hard to read . . .
Just the same, how is any different today from then? Search the Scriptures, the Law and the Prophets, for eternal life, but that life is not found in those Scriptures, it is found in Jesus Christ.
I don't diminish the Law and the Prophets. This was God's plan to restore us to Him. But the Law and the Prophets are not the Final Answer. Life is found in Jesus.
The OT taught rebirth though many didn't see it, maybe no one saw it there, I don't know. When Jesus came, it was like stepping out of the Shadows and into the Light.
And now being born again, being filled with the Holy Spirit, having personal relationship with our Creator, why not immerse ourselves into the fulness of knowing Him Himself?
Much love!
I counsel you to examine your building materials, and what it is you are saying. I find your words to tear down, and not build, as you endeavor to bring doubt to the children of God.
Much love!
You've taken a passage of some, and applied to all, and that is a mistake.
And you push the Law as the measure of righteousness, instead you should be pointing people to Jesus Himself. As we live unto Him, He should be our central focus.
You assume people deny God's power and speak to them as if that were true. To what benefit is that? It's not reality.
You realize, sauce for the goose and gander, if this is everyone, then this is You Too!
Much love!
I'm trying to explain to you that the child of God does not die, and we should spend our energies encouraging each other in good works while we wait for Jesus.
The child of God does not die. Never. The born again do not become unborn again. You can't seem to get settled on that truth, and while you say it doesn't matter, I quite disagree with you.
We benefit enourmously by understanding the truth of what God did for us. And in fact, it's by understanding that truth, this is what enables us to actually walk in it.
The child of God cannot die, because our life is found in Him, and He cannot die.
Our sins are forgiven, therefore, we do not die because of them.
This is what needs to be settled in your heart.
Much love!
The Bible teaches us that in believing and receiving Jesus, God gives us rebirth, and we will never die.
You go on to suppose that this person might someday again disbelieve. Whatever! That's a hypopthetical. "What if . . . " Such things are not real, and therefore you can turn them whatever way you want.
I'm not going to go on with you if we cannot have a straightforward converstation about these things.
Show me the person who believed and was born again, and now does not believe, and has died again. You cannot actually.
You want to get all wrapped up in hypothetical imaginations that's your thing, not mine. The fact is, Jesus said the one who believes in Him will never die. And there is so much in Scripture telling all about this.
The born again do not die again.
Life in Christ does not end, because Christ lives forever.
All sins are forgiven in Christ, therefore no sin will separate you from God - IF you are His child.
Get wrapped up in the grace that BB teaches, and discover the wonderful freedom from this fixation on sin and law.
Much love!
However, the third branch is the branch that does not live in Christ. You may assume that this refers to someone who was born again, but I don't make that same assumption.
Rather, there are two branches in Christ, one fruitful, which is made more fruitful, and one not, which is carried away. The third branch is dead, does not abide in Christ, and is gathered to be burned.
We all have our lives in Christ, even those of this world. This is a not a prooftext that when Paul wrote the born again would all appear with Christ, that he was wrong.
Much love!
Some how you are missing the core. I fear I've lacked patience!
Please, think about this.
Resting in the Gospel is not signified by resisting and struggling against sin. I know . . . its what we've believed for so many years! But the truth is this. When you trust Jesus for your life, for the next moment, for everything, there isn't that struggle. You do what is good, because it's who you are. When you are struggling, you are not trusting Him.
The struggling and fighting, it shows you still look at life the old way.
Free Grace teaching, as you call it, what the Bible tells us, is that all sins are forgiven, gone, and will not condemn us any more. So now we can truly rest - rest in His grace, not our struggle - and find that He does actually give us holy life.
You need to see Option 3. Not the legalist living of someone with something to prove. Not just throwing up your hands and saying, no use, don't try. Option 3. Trusting in the finished work of Christ.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Is it not assumed that established members on this board have already been pointed to Jesus?
It seems that now we must point to sound doctrine according to the word of God in order to be in Jesus according to truth:
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
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