I won't be saved until I'm resurrected and brought into heaven, you must be lucky or something
Gifts Of The Spirit Are NOT Proof That You Have The Holy Spirit
- Thread starter Amos Ministries
- Start date
-
- Tags
- gifts of the spirit
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
There’s no luck involved. I was born again—of the Spirit. I was made a new creation. I’ve been transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of Jesus Christ. I was an enemy of God; now I am accepted in the beloved. I know that I have eternal life, and no one will snatch me out of Jesus’ hand. I am sealed with the Holy Spirit and a whole lot more!!!I won't be saved until I'm resurrected and brought into heaven, you must be lucky or something
Look at Mary, she had the Angel come to her and she abided, not to mention she was Full of Grace.
Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with you.
So god was with her and she with God.
Mary is regarded as the embodiment of the Church, she is as us the body of the Church, she represents us in a way as just as we represent his body, without her we would not be representing Emmanuel who is (God with us). so we are just as she was in relation to God when we have his Grace.
We who are truly born again are walking with Jesus Christ, abiding in him as he is our Lord and Saviour and we regard him as the King of Israel, that means he is our King as to who truly only serve him, because such are of the Kingdom of God and are not of this world, of the blighted and cursed that are happy to be led by Sin and following along like a fool with this world.
Christ Jesus came to call you out of this blighted world and into his Kingdom, that is who is of his body who abide in him.
Mary abided in God and was pure, open to God and not corrupted of this world and that's why God came to her, she was full of Grace in fact Bible says and God never comes to anyone who is totally blighted, look at Moses and Jacob Israel and Simon Paul they were openly seeking as to God and that's what everyone needs to be able to come to God, they knew this world was under a curse of Sin depraving all around them and they looked and Prayed to God for help in fact.
Look at Nathaniel that's a great example of a true Israelite Servant of God, Jesus said so in fact.
Look at St Stephen who was full of Grace and what did they all see the face of an Angel, I am sure this was the Key that opened the door for God to speak to Simon Paul. St Stephen had just given a detailed facts of the History of the Jews and they could not handle the truth, so they killed him just as they had did with all who God sent, because they were under a curse lead by Satan's works, Religion never saver anyone, but the Truth does and the Holy spirit is the God honest Truth in it's self in fact.
I hope you mean born again of the Holy Spirit.
Not Spirit ? and their are many of such, but there is only one Holy Spirit.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
I capitalized Spirit to show that I was talking about the Holy Spirit. In John 3 Jesus talks about being born of the Spirit.
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
But . . . it is the Gifts of the Enabling, Effectual Holy Spirit that produce the fruit. We produce nothing through our own power.
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
To the ones who do what they are taught, which is to test the Spirit that is within folks. Why? To ensure that they have received the True Gospel.
1 John 4:1 NKJV - "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world."
I wish someone would have tested me, but the "Christian" church doesn't seem to think that this is important. It is important to test the Spirits within others, for if we don't, it's going to be tough to convince Jesus that we actually loved people while here on earth.
Do you adhere to 1 John 4:1?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
you needn't be concerned Timo if your heart is bone fide.....you are being tested....present tense. You might not now how or by whom.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Their divisions were effecting the whole church. (1 Corinthians 11:20-22).
I'm not putting words in his mouth, LoL, but your position seems to, which is why I was asking you about it.
Paul Christensen
Well-Known Member
- Mar 2, 2020
- 3,068
- 1,619
- 113
- 76
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- New Zealand
Just to satisfy my curiosity: Which components of Evangelism do you believe are lies and not part of authentic Christianity?
Of course I don't believe that a person is saved just by saying a simple prayer. I believe that true conversion to Christ is a work of the Holy Spirit and it must be earnestly sought for. The Scripture says that if one seeks God with all their heart they will find Him. The problem with many professing Christians they think that just "receiving Christ" by praying a prayer is all they need to be converted to Christ, but all they get is the entry point to the Christian religion. They fail to go further by pressing into God until they know that there has been a total and comprehensive change of heart that characterises a true conversion to Christ.
It may be that confirmation may be a good challenge to those who were baptised as infants, but never really committed themselves to Christ, and that with good teaching about the need to make a full commitment to Christ as part of the confirmation process would lead to a positive outcome and true conversion to Christ could result from it. So, it is not the rite itself that does anything, but the way the candidate approaches it in his or her heart. The Scripture says that with the heart a person comes to Christ in faith, and confession of their heart commitment is made verbally. The Evangelical equivalent is believers' baptism. The actual rite of baptism does nothing if the person comes to it depending on just the rite itself without making a heart commitment to Christ through it.
Paul Christensen
Well-Known Member
- Mar 2, 2020
- 3,068
- 1,619
- 113
- 76
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- New Zealand
I base my opinion on 1 Corinthians 1:4-7:
"I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
This shows that the hard core of the Corinthian church was very sound and on a solid foundation of faith in Christ. I think the lesson for us is that every excellent church has its problems and leaders of churches must be open to instruction and correction if issues arise. II Corinthians shows that the Corinthian church was open to instruction and correction from Paul, because in this second letter he acknowledges that they took his correction on board and dealt with the issues that he put to them in the first letter.
But many churches create greater problems for themselves because they are not open to correction and instruction and treat any believer outside of their own denomination as suspect and not qualified to correct them, even though the correction may very well be supported by Scripture. Every church system has its traditions, whether enshrined in their doctrine, or unspoken. Even the most unstructured autonomous church has its "traditions", expressed in "this is the way we do things here and we will not change".
It may be a shock to many that the Corinthian church, in its faith in Christ, openness to the Spirit, and sound doctrine taught by Paul and Apollos, is vastly superior than most modern churches.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Correct. But none of the above takes away from 1 Corinthians 11.
Your original post was, "... a genuinely Spirit-filled person is living and walking in the Spirit, and therefore when any spiritual gift is manifested, it is correct and genuine, and points others to Christ." This seems to be judgmental on your part. You do recognize that a person can be walking in the Spirit one minute and in the flesh the next, correct? In genuine gifts one minute, and in sin and error the next? This is fairly basic, so I was a little shocked at your original post, but maybe you were referring to something else.
Paul Christensen
Well-Known Member
- Mar 2, 2020
- 3,068
- 1,619
- 113
- 76
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- New Zealand
The problem is that Paul clearly says that the Corinthians were enriched and do not come short in any gift. You seem to be implying that in chapter 11 that all of the Corinthian Christians were being gluttons and getting drunk. But Paul doesn't say that. He certainly says that gluttony and drunkenness are serious issues for which I am not denying, but to say that the whole church was so infected that the manifestation of the gifts were false, is applying "one plus one equals three" to Paul's teaching.
Either Paul is teaching under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit or he is not. If his letter is inspired, then the Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself. He does not say at the beginning of the letter that the church is not coming behind in any gift and that it is enriched; and then in another part of the letter that the church is so corrupted that the gifts are not authentic.
It is a favourite tactic of Cessationists to try and show the Corinthian church was corrupted by chaos, indiscipline, and pagan occult influences, that their manifestation of the gifts was chaotic and corrupted by pagan influences. But they use selected Scriptures to try and prove their point, and ignore references that don't fit their prejudiced views.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
No. I said their divisions (the worst and most grievous sin they were committing, which was causing many to be sick or die) was effecting the entire church, yet the suggestion from the letter is that virtually all of them were nevertheless operating in genuine spiritual gifts.
Gotta move on. God bless, and hope your 2021 is a good one.
- H
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Regardless of the gift you have, according to the Bible, a spiritual gift is not proof that you have received the Holy Spirit. To determine whether or not you have the Holy Spirit, you must adhere to a certain set of beliefs which are the teachings of Jesus without compromising or manipulating them.
The gift of prophecy is the gift you should eagerly pursue, but this gift can put you in opposition with the established church and denomination (as it was with every prophet in the Old Testament, and in the New Testament with Jesus and the Apostles). The church also understands that if you haven’t developed any spiritual gifts as a result of their teachings, you may doubt the authenticity of their doctrinal teachings and find another church or change denominations. And so, the Pentecostal church pushes speaking in tongues as irrefutable proof of the Holy Spirit.
The Apostle Paul himself states that speaking in tongues is the least of all the gifts and that we should desire the greater gifts.
1 Corinthians 12:28 – And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:31 – Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
This is because the purpose of speaking in tongues does not usually benefit the people around, as it is more of a personal edification. Unless there is someone around who can interpret (which is rare precisely due to inauthentic tongues speakers), those around you who hear, cannot grasp what you are saying and you both become foreigners to each other. For these reasons, Paul encourages us to excel in gifts that build up the church.
Hi Amos:
YOu are incorrect in saying that the proof of the Spirit is holding to a set of beliefs. Let me explain why:
1. when one is saved they do not become an instant theologian. One must be taught sound doctrine in order to believe in sound doctrine. While it is true that a believer will come to hold "the fundamentals of the faith", it isn't necessarily true at salvation.
2. The moment one is saved, they are filled with the Holy Spirit. We do not just get a"wing" then a week later, "the beak" then "a claw" etc. We get all of the Holy Spirit all at once. Then comes the process of renewing the moind as Paul said in romans 12. Letting the Word of God take hold in our hearet so we can reject the lod ways and adopt the Godly ways.
3. The proof that one is a believer is a growing manifestation of the fruit of the Spirit as listed in Galatians. Jesus said people we would know we are His disciples if we had love for one another, not attained to theological heights. We should not reject the latter for the former but while we grow inknwoledge we should also grow in the fruit of the Spirit.
Hope this helps.
If a person is really hungry and thirsty for the right things, will not God fill him?
"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6
Will not His sheep, those who are, not continue to hear His voice rather than the voices of strangers?
"But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:2-5
Tough to convince? If we do what God wants us to do, will He not know it? As for testing others or teaching them rightly, if that is what God tells us we need to do, then we must. Someone with that assignment from God will also be hearing His voice so as to know what to do and when. Of course babies know almost nothing, while teenagers know a bit more and may believe they know a whole lot more. God knows all of the hearts and provides help for His people to grow:
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." Eph 4:11-16
Perhaps at times and in places there is no one we can see who is working fully in one of those ministries, but God is watching it all. He will fill the gaps when filling is needed of someone who requires filling. He may use someone who is not a prophet to prophesy or someone who is not a teacher to teach... But His work will be done while it is day! When and where is the night?
"I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work." John 9:4
I strive to always adhere to God's Word. Sometimes renewed surrender is needed. God is always there when we need Him.
As most of us daily try to eat our meat and potatoes, so also we should desire to eat His flesh and drink His blood to have always Life!
"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53
To know if you have the Holy Spirit, you must look at:
1 Corinthians 12:3 – Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
Saying “Jesus be cursed” is not done with your lips. It is an action where you decide not to believe in Jesus’ teachings and choose to follow your own compromised interpretation of Jesus’ teachings that suits you.
Saying “Jesus is Lord” means to agree with Jesus’ teachings and his interpretation of God’s word, without manipulating or compromising them. It means to obey his teachings by living your life by his standards of right and wrong and not your own compromised version that suits you.
Luke 6:46 – “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
We must discern whether we are in agreement with Jesus’ teachings.
1 Corinthians 2:14 – The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
We should examine ourselves to see if we are indeed of the faith.
2 Corinthians 13:5 – Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
Lamentations 3:40 – Let us examine our ways and test them, and let us return to the Lord.
1 Corinthians 11:28-32 – Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.
We must test ourselves to see if we are indeed aligned with Jesus’ teachings such as:
Luke 14:33 – In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.
Other translations:
Luke 14:33 NLT – So you cannot become my disciple without giving up everything you own.
Luke 14:33 NASB – So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
Jesus instructs us to give up all of our possessions in order to be considered his disciple. This is what all of the disciples did. Anyone today who is a Christian, is a disciple of Jesus. This instruction is for every Christian believer.
Matthew 19:27 KJV – Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
Luke 18:28 KJV – Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
The very basis of Jesus’ entire ministry was to teach us not to compromise the word of God by adding exceptions to His words. Jesus came to teach us to follow the word of God without exceptions and compromise. And wherever we fall short, we confess, repent and ask God for forgiveness. Simply put, we must never blur the lines about what Jesus has taught us to be right and wrong by lowering his standards.
We must not be like the Pharisees and scoff at Jesus’ teachings and make excuses.
Luke 16:13-14 – No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.” 14 The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all of this and were scoffing at Jesus.
We must be willing to follow all of the Bible’s teachings, even if we don’t agree with them personally. Otherwise, we cannot claim to have the same spirit as Jesus, if we disagree with him.
Luke 6:30 – Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.
We cannot disagree with any of the teachings of Jesus and claim to have the Holy Spirit.
When we accept all that Jesus has said without manipulating and compromising his word, and apply it to our everyday lives, then we know that we have the Holy Spirit. If we accept all that Jesus taught, then we know we have the same spirit that Jesus had. Until then, tongues can be manufactured which the weak take as a sign that they have the Holy Spirit. This is dangerous because if you believe you already have the Holy Spirit, you will stop looking for it and so you will never receive it.
Matthew 7:7 – “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
In order to receive the Holy Spirit, we must make seeking and asking for it, the first and only priority in our lives.
Matthew 6:33 – But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness…
Having the Holy Spirit is not as easy as just speaking in tongues. Jesus himself states how difficult it is to enter the kingdom of God, which is receiving the Holy Spirit.
Mark 10:24 BLB – And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answering says to them again, “Children, how difficult it is to enter into the kingdom of God!
Speaking in tongues is not evidence that you have entered the kingdom of heaven, meaning you have received the Holy Spirit. I encourage everyone to keep pushing forward in your faith. Don’t settle for what the church tells you out of a motive not to offend, so that you will come back week after week. Many churches have compromised speaking the truth because they see a decrease in church attendance and tithing whenever they have tried. Through their own evil nature, people simply change churches to one that speaks an easy, uplifting message of what they want to hear.
2 Timothy 4:3 – For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Lamentations 2:14 – Your prophets have seen for you false and deceptive visions; they have not uncovered your iniquity, to bring back your captives, but have envisioned for you false prophecies and delusions.
1 Corinthians 12:3 – Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
Saying “Jesus be cursed” is not done with your lips. It is an action where you decide not to believe in Jesus’ teachings and choose to follow your own compromised interpretation of Jesus’ teachings that suits you.
Saying “Jesus is Lord” means to agree with Jesus’ teachings and his interpretation of God’s word, without manipulating or compromising them. It means to obey his teachings by living your life by his standards of right and wrong and not your own compromised version that suits you.
Luke 6:46 – “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
We must discern whether we are in agreement with Jesus’ teachings.
1 Corinthians 2:14 – The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
We should examine ourselves to see if we are indeed of the faith.
2 Corinthians 13:5 – Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
Lamentations 3:40 – Let us examine our ways and test them, and let us return to the Lord.
1 Corinthians 11:28-32 – Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.
We must test ourselves to see if we are indeed aligned with Jesus’ teachings such as:
Luke 14:33 – In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.
Other translations:
Luke 14:33 NLT – So you cannot become my disciple without giving up everything you own.
Luke 14:33 NASB – So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
Jesus instructs us to give up all of our possessions in order to be considered his disciple. This is what all of the disciples did. Anyone today who is a Christian, is a disciple of Jesus. This instruction is for every Christian believer.
Matthew 19:27 KJV – Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
Luke 18:28 KJV – Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
The very basis of Jesus’ entire ministry was to teach us not to compromise the word of God by adding exceptions to His words. Jesus came to teach us to follow the word of God without exceptions and compromise. And wherever we fall short, we confess, repent and ask God for forgiveness. Simply put, we must never blur the lines about what Jesus has taught us to be right and wrong by lowering his standards.
We must not be like the Pharisees and scoff at Jesus’ teachings and make excuses.
Luke 16:13-14 – No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.” 14 The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all of this and were scoffing at Jesus.
We must be willing to follow all of the Bible’s teachings, even if we don’t agree with them personally. Otherwise, we cannot claim to have the same spirit as Jesus, if we disagree with him.
Luke 6:30 – Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.
We cannot disagree with any of the teachings of Jesus and claim to have the Holy Spirit.
When we accept all that Jesus has said without manipulating and compromising his word, and apply it to our everyday lives, then we know that we have the Holy Spirit. If we accept all that Jesus taught, then we know we have the same spirit that Jesus had. Until then, tongues can be manufactured which the weak take as a sign that they have the Holy Spirit. This is dangerous because if you believe you already have the Holy Spirit, you will stop looking for it and so you will never receive it.
Matthew 7:7 – “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
In order to receive the Holy Spirit, we must make seeking and asking for it, the first and only priority in our lives.
Matthew 6:33 – But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness…
Having the Holy Spirit is not as easy as just speaking in tongues. Jesus himself states how difficult it is to enter the kingdom of God, which is receiving the Holy Spirit.
Mark 10:24 BLB – And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answering says to them again, “Children, how difficult it is to enter into the kingdom of God!
Speaking in tongues is not evidence that you have entered the kingdom of heaven, meaning you have received the Holy Spirit. I encourage everyone to keep pushing forward in your faith. Don’t settle for what the church tells you out of a motive not to offend, so that you will come back week after week. Many churches have compromised speaking the truth because they see a decrease in church attendance and tithing whenever they have tried. Through their own evil nature, people simply change churches to one that speaks an easy, uplifting message of what they want to hear.
2 Timothy 4:3 – For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Lamentations 2:14 – Your prophets have seen for you false and deceptive visions; they have not uncovered your iniquity, to bring back your captives, but have envisioned for you false prophecies and delusions.
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
Similar threads
