Only 2 Comings by Lord Jesus, Not 3

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Davy

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HIS OWN "ARM" DID, supportive scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

now Davy, is your "OWN" ARM a seperate enity from YOU.... :p YIKES!

Now what about that John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24, as to who, "MADE ALL THINGS". that will answer your question, AGAIN....

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

You don't stand a chance with your make-believe fantasies.

Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
KJV

Heb 1:13
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
KJV

Heb 2:14-16
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
KJV
 

101G

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You don't stand a chance with your make-believe fantasies.

Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
KJV

Heb 1:13
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
KJV

Heb 2:14-16
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
KJV
so we can take this as you cannot answer the John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 question? advoiding that? ... don't blame you.

see I'll answer you, that "3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person". is God's own "ARM", who is the "HE" of his OWNSELF, or in latman term "the ANOTHER" of his ownself. better known as the "Diversity" or the offspring in flesh. or the REDEEMER, or the SAVIOUR of man and Everything.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Davy

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so we can take this as you cannot answer the John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 question? advoiding that? ... don't blame you.

see I'll answer you, that "3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person". is God's own "ARM", who is the "HE" of his OWNSELF, or in latman term "the ANOTHER" of his ownself. better known as the "Diversity" or the offspring in flesh. or the REDEEMER, or the SAVIOUR of man and Everything.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

I'm not into the 'Oneness' doctrines of men. I agree with Bible Scripture that reveals there are 3 Persons in The Godhead. The Oneness doctrines of men are allied with Judaism, because even many Messianic Jews still have a hard time understanding about the 3 Persons in The Godhead. So you can make up all kinds of Judaic theories about The GOD of The Bible that you want, but the plentiful Scripture still exists to show that The Son Jesus Christ only is Who came in the flesh to die on the cross, even though He is part of The Godhead too.
 

amadeus

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That's still speculation like I pointed to, because the sending of The Holy Spirit Comforter was NOT... a coming of Christ Jesus. Like I said, Jesus' 1st coming was to die on the cross. His 2nd coming will be to take rule over all the earth and over all peoples, which of course has yet to happen today.
What if he has come already into the little bit of earth of you and me to rule in our hearts? Would that not be the 2nd coming if coming to die on the cross were the 1st?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" Col 1:27
 

Davy

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What if he has come already into the little bit of earth of you and me to rule in our hearts? Would that not be the 2nd coming if coming to die on the cross were the 1st?

THAT... idea is what a theory from men's leaven doctrines calls Full Preterism.

The Full Preterist believes that Jesus' 2nd coming was a 'spiritual' coming, not a literal bodily coming, and that it happened during the days of His Apostles.

One really can not get any farther from God's Word about Christ's return than with that kind of false doctrine.
 

Taken

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Only 2 Comings by Lord Jesus, Not 3
OP ^

The Son of man, God named Jesus,
Humbly, without Reputation, Came From Heaven, to Earth ONCE, and Left Earth, and Returned to Heaven

The Son of man, Scripture Reveals Shall Return to Earth, with Great Power.

 

amadeus

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THAT... idea is what a theory from men's leaven doctrines calls Full Preterism.

The Full Preterist believes that Jesus' 2nd coming was a 'spiritual' coming, not a literal bodily coming, and that it happened during the days of His Apostles.

One really can not get any farther from God's Word about Christ's return than with that kind of false doctrine.
This is really too bad! Help us dear Lord!
 

Timtofly

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And for an illiterate who also doesn't know how to count?
How serious is God about this? Is He not looking at a person's heart rather than giving him a theology test?
God is not looking at humanity, and declaring His will based on their will.

Did He plan it all out? He planned the highlights and humans evolved around the highlights. Jesus came to Abraham, a 5th coming. Jesus came to the 3 Hebrews in the fiery furnace, a 6th coming. Jesus was there in the beginning creating the world, a 7th coming. How many times will actually count to any human understanding? How can we even know the order and the correctness of the order?

We are talking about the finish of an earthly ministry that is also an earthly ministry like the first ministry. Jesus is not going to die again, and there is only 1 resurrection, but this time we see angels and they are physically here to collect the physical soul out of physical bodies. Jesus gave us a physical example: In time the beggar died and was carried away by the angels to Avraham’s side.

This is the Second Coming. When angels come and carry off the sheep to their resurrection.
 

amadeus

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God is not looking at humanity, and declaring His will based on their will.

Did He plan it all out? He planned the highlights and humans evolved around the highlights. Jesus came to Abraham, a 5th coming. Jesus came to the 3 Hebrews in the fiery furnace, a 6th coming. Jesus was there in the beginning creating the world, a 7th coming. How many times will actually count to any human understanding? How can we even know the order and the correctness of the order?

We are talking about the finish of an earthly ministry that is also an earthly ministry like the first ministry. Jesus is not going to die again, and there is only 1 resurrection, but this time we see angels and they are physically here to collect the physical soul out of physical bodies. Jesus gave us a physical example: In time the beggar died and was carried away by the angels to Avraham’s side.

This is the Second Coming. When angels come and carry off the sheep to their resurrection.

God has always, as I understand it, had a plan that covers the whole thing. But... how good must our vision be to partake in what He has for us? I know really nothing about these multiple comings of which you speak!

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts" Prov 21:1
 
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Paul Christensen

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God's Word teaches that Lord Jesus comes 2 times to this earth. It was first written of in the Old Testament prophets...

Christ's 1st coming to die on the cross:
Zech 9:9
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.


That was declared at Jesus' 1st coming per Matthew 21:1-9.


Christ's 2nd coming with Power to Rule over all:
Zech 9:10
10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.
KJV


The events to pay attention to in this 10th verse are, the cutting off of the chariot and horse from Jerusalem which represents battle. And the battle bow being cut off, meaning the end of all that strife in the world. And His dominion rule from sea to sea, etc., which is put for Christ's future reign over all nations with "a rod of iron" (Revelation 12:5; Psalms 2).

That is also what The New Testament prophecies show about our Lord Jesus' 2 times of coming. His 1st coming was to be meek as the Lamb slain to offer us forgiveness of sins. And His 2nd coming, which is still future, will be to take over all the kingdoms of this world on the 7th Trumpet (Revelation 11:15).


If you'll notice, there is no 3rd coming written of. Only 2:

Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

KJV

Pre-tribulationalism wrongly teaches there are 3 comings by Christ. The 1st was His coming to die on the cross. The 2nd time, which they try to be sneaky and say it really isn't a 2nd time, is alleged to be prior to the "great tribulation" to gather the Church, originally what John Darby in 1830's Great Britain said was a "secret" coming. And then they teach the 2nd coming is after the tribulation returning with Jesus to do battle, which that actually is a 3rd one in their false teaching.

1st coming - Christ died on the cross for the remission of sins for those who believe.
2nd coming - to gather His Church and do battle, beginning His reign over all.

That's all that is written of in God's Word, just 2 times, just like the above Hebrews 9:28 says "the second time". The Pre-trib Rapture school can't even get that verse right, as they slice that verse up and only say, "unto them that look for Him", and leave off that "second time". Why would they do that?

They do it because they are preaching a false doctrine from men that is leaven 'added' to God's Word. Their pre-trib rapture idea simply is not written. So chop and slice Scripture is the order of their day.

Direct Scripture is available directly from our Lord Jesus as to the timing of His return to gather His Church. It is written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 where He shows His return and gathering of the saints is AFTER... the tribulation. One cannot get any more straightforward than that.

God allows men's leaven false doctrines to deceive IF... the believer allows theirself to be deceived. It's no big mystery, as God allowed false ones to creep in among Israel to try His people with. He does this to test YOU, to see if you will listen to Him in His Word, or to men's doctrines.
The description of the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the catching up of those in Christ still alive in 1 Thessalonians is not a description of an extra coming again of Christ. Paul does not teach that Christ actually comes to the world at that time. He teaches that those who are in Christ, alive and dead will caught up to meet Christ "in the air", wherever that is. Because Paul would have had no real conception of the cosmos, "in the air" could mean either in space just above the earth, or somewhere beyond the known universe. But what he does teach is that rather than Christ coming to earth at that time, the church of true believers is taken up and transported to where Christ is. I believe that Christ comes nowhere near the earth at that time.

What proposes a problem to post-tribulation theologians is that the Scripture says that when Jesus comes back to earth He comes with tens of thousands of His saints (ie: the true believers in Christ). So, if true believers are still on earth when Christ comes again, where do the glorified believers who are with him come from, if they weren't taken up previously to meet Him somewhere in space?

The reason why post-tribulation theologians convenient ignore Paul's teaching to the Thessalonians, is that it does not fit their theology, and they have no real answer to it, because Paul teaches that at some time in human history, those in Christ who have died, and those still living will suddenly disappear from the world. Post Tribulation theologians can't tell us exactly when that will happen, because it doesn't fit with their time line of events. This is because when Christ comes again, He comes to intervene in the attempted destruction of Israel by defeating and destroying the armies of the AntiChrist, and then sets up His thousand year reign on earth. So, Paul's teaching of a rapture of the dead and living in Christ doesn't fit, so they deny that such a rapture is going to take place. Yet Paul clearly teaches that a rapture will take place, so they have to either say that Paul is mistaken or his teaching is so obscure that we cannot be understood.
 

Davy

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This is really too bad! Help us dear Lord!

If it doesn't align with Christ in The Word of God, then it is destined to be burned.

1 Cor 3:11-15
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
KJV
 

Davy

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The description of the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the catching up of those in Christ still alive in 1 Thessalonians is not a description of an extra coming again of Christ. Paul does not teach that Christ actually comes to the world at that time. He teaches that those who are in Christ, alive and dead will caught up to meet Christ "in the air", wherever that is. Because Paul would have had no real conception of the cosmos, "in the air" could mean either in space just above the earth, or somewhere beyond the known universe. But what he does teach is that rather than Christ coming to earth at that time, the church of true believers is taken up and transported to where Christ is. I believe that Christ comes nowhere near the earth at that time.

I have to stop you right there. Apostle Paul was a scholar of The Old Testament Books. That's all that was written down in his day. The Old Testament prophet Zechariah in Chapter 14 gives the detail of Christ's return with His saints to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem. That is on earth, and that is His destination of His coming of 1 Thessalonians 4. Acts 1 also reveals how Jesus ascended to Heaven in a cloud, and we are told there that's how He will return.

So you cannot just try to dump those Zechariah 14 and Acts 1 chapters because you're not familiar with them, or just because there was more detail first given in The Old Testament prophet Zechariah. No doubt Paul felt he had no reason to re-hash that Zechariah 14 Chapter with the Thessalonian Church, simply because they likely were already familiar with it. Why aren't you?


What proposes a problem to post-tribulation theologians is that the Scripture says that when Jesus comes back to earth He comes with tens of thousands of His saints (ie: the true believers in Christ). So, if true believers are still on earth when Christ comes again, where do the glorified believers who are with him come from, if they weren't taken up previously to meet Him somewhere in space?

That is not a problem at all for post-tribulational theology, simply because the actual 'gathering' event is on Jesus' descent to this earth, as written by Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. The 'destination' event is written in Zechariah 14 and Acts 1 like I said before. What Pre-tribulationalism teaches is completely foreign to The Word of God, because it wrongly teaches Jesus gathers His Church and then turns back and goes back into Heaven with them. Nowhere is that idea written, and certainly not by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4. So where do they get that idea? They simply made it up to serve their traditions of money-grubbing. And since there's a lot of money at stake, they naturally contest strongly anyone messin' with their false pre-trib rapture theory, which is nothing but their rice bowl they steal off of deceived brethren.


The reason why post-tribulation theologians convenient ignore Paul's teaching to the Thessalonians, is that it does not fit their theology, and they have no real answer to it, because Paul teaches that at some time in human history, those in Christ who have died, and those still living will suddenly disappear from the world.

The truly amazing thing about Pre-trib rapturists, is that they really do not know what Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4.
 
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101G

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I'm not into the 'Oneness' doctrines of men. I agree with Bible Scripture that reveals there are 3 Persons in The Godhead. The Oneness doctrines of men are allied with Judaism, because even many Messianic Jews still have a hard time understanding about the 3 Persons in The Godhead. So you can make up all kinds of Judaic theories about The GOD of The Bible that you want, but the plentiful Scripture still exists to show that The Son Jesus Christ only is Who came in the flesh to die on the cross, even though He is part of The Godhead too.
First thanks for your reply, just saw this, second, I'm not a Oneness doctrine man.... again, I'm a "Diversified Oneness" man. big difference. and no, I don't believe in three persons as one God. the scriptures are cleare, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." BINGO, there is no God "beside" him. that's plain and simp to read. as this verse, Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." again "ONE" person, and if he don't know any other PERSON(S) bedise himself, how you come up with two more "BESIDE" him?

see, this is why you're in ERROR, and don't understand the return of the Lord Jesus on Pentecost. and that he has a two fold return in his second coming. this is why true bible teaching by the Holy Spirit himself is needed.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Davy

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First thanks for your reply, just saw this, second, I'm not a Oneness doctrine man.... again, I'm a "Diversified Oneness" man. big difference. and no, I don't believe in three persons as one God. the scriptures are cleare, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." BINGO, there is no God "beside" him. that's plain and simp to read. as this verse, Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." again "ONE" person, and if he don't know any other PERSON(S) bedise himself, how you come up with two more "BESIDE" him?

see, this is why you're in ERROR, and don't understand the return of the Lord Jesus on Pentecost. and that he has a two fold return in his second coming. this is why true bible teaching by the Holy Spirit himself is needed.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Doesn't matter what you call yourself, the Oneness doctrine of man is about the denial of 3 Persons in The Godhead. The Bible teaches 3 Persons in The Godhead, God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit. Like I said, many Messianic Jews still struggle with understanding that because of their old covenant traditions they were taught.
 

101G

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Doesn't matter what you call yourself, the Oneness doctrine of man is about the denial of 3 Persons in The Godhead. The Bible teaches 3 Persons in The Godhead, God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit. Like I said, many Messianic Jews still struggle with understanding that because of their old covenant traditions they were taught.
first thanks for the reply, second, as I have asked before, if it's three persons in the Godhead, then reconcile John 1:3, and Isaiah 44:24, as to who "Made all things?". that's all to it, just that simple.

looking to hear your answer.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Davy

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first thanks for the reply, second, as I have asked before, if it's three persons in the Godhead, then reconcile John 1:3, and Isaiah 44:24, as to who "Made all things?". that's all to it, just that simple.

looking to hear your answer.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

You certainly need to study the Book of Hebrews.
 

101G

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You certainly need to study the Book of Hebrews.
so we can take this as you cannot reconcile John 1:3, and Isaiah 44:24 as to "WHO MADE ALL THINGS?"

quit stalling, is the Person in John 1:3 the same one Person in Isaiah 44:24 yes or No".

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

amadeus

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@Davy

Amadeus said: This is really too bad! Help us dear Lord!
Davy said:
If it doesn't align with Christ in The Word of God, then it is destined to be burned.
And who is to determine that it is properly aligned but God Himself? You and me in our carnal flesh are too blind to see it...

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

God has always responded as needed to anyone whose heart was directed toward Him. Now we see a Director for us here:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

Will that teaching then show us how to be properly aligned as God might define alignment?

Of course if a person regularly follows his own head, quenching the Spirit of God in him, he is back where Jeremiah said he was.

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

1 Cor 3:11-15
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
KJV

Indeed, the foundation must be the rock, that is the Rock, which will stand firmly before any storm that hits us rather than the sand which allows everything resting on it to wash away.

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Matt 7:24-27

Without that proper foundation, the Rock, which is Jesus, even though we use the best of building materials, be they gold, silver and/or precious stones, which will not burn, but they, those building materials, will be washed away in any case beforehand so never mind about the fire.

Don't you believe that a very ignorant person, even an illiterate, who cannot read a Bible for himself, can nevertheless encounter and build on that right Foundation, the Rock, which is Jesus? Will he go on to be a Bible scholar and great preacher or teacher for God? Perhaps not, but his Foundation will hold through all of the storms to the end of his course!
 
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