Gifts Of The Spirit Are NOT Proof That You Have The Holy Spirit

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Dec 28, 2020
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the determined....the forceful.....those with their eye on the goal to the cost of all else are entering God's kingdom.
again....the disenfranchised, marginalised ....the publicans and harlots (Matt 21:31).... those hungering and thirsting.

Anyone who claims to have the Holy Spirit without repentance to Jesus' teachings is trying to take the Kingdom of Heaven by violence.
 

amadeus

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Perplexing.
Is it?
What was with the children of Israel when Moses came down from the mountain?

"Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart." II Cor 3:12-15

Is it only the natural children of Jacob today with veils covering their hearts?
 
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2nd Timothy Group

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Is it?
What was with the children of Israel when Moses came down from the mountain?

"Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart." II Cor 3:12-15

Is it only the natural children of Jacob today with veils covering their hearts?

So . . . you are cleverly stating that I am under the Curse. Thanks! :)

I give it to you, Lord, to do as you wish.
 

amadeus

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So . . . you are cleverly stating that I am under the Curse. Thanks! :)

I give it to you, Lord, to do as you wish.
Are you paranoid, my friend? Why do you jump to conclusions like that? We might even become friends for real if you were not so quick to presume I was attacking you or putting you down.
 
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Pearl

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340396_574975d7a32719c4c230f4396819ca25.png

1 Corinthians 12 : Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. . . . 4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. . . . 7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,a]">[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues." 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

So as I understand the quote: You might have one of these gifts of the Holy Spirit. But whichever one it is is not proof that we have the Holy Spirit. If we don't have the Holy Spirit he would not impart his gifts to us. So to my thinking that is proof in itself.
 
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amadeus

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Nah, don't be sad. I'm not. :)

None of this bothers me . . . things are all good!
I remember that Jesus wept and so when I have doubts about another person, it makes me sad! Of course very often I know little or nothing about another person's heart!

"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content." Phil 4:11
 

Paul Christensen

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and do you really think that's what I'm saying Amos?
I think the word "suffering" is misquoted. 17th Century use of the word meant "to allow". This makes the reference to say: "The kingdom of heaven allows violence and the violent take it by force". It means that faith is not passive like many suppose when they say, "I believe the gospel" but do nothing about it. That is just a mental assent to the gospel that leads nowhere. True faith is assertive. It not only believes the gospel but it takes decisive action to press into God to make the gospel true in fact, leading to salvation.
 

amadeus

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What is wrong, Amadeus? We, Christians, do not play the Devil's game of fear, shame, and guilt. You are free in Christ, good sir. Why, then, struggle?

I advise you to feel perfectly comfortable. :)
Oh my friend in the Lord alone I am comfortable. He is my place of rest as Jesus said it...

"Come unto me...and I will give you rest"

But this place, this forum is no place of rest. This is one of the battlegrounds. Better than the offline world of men? Hmmm? At age 77 myself with an extremely vulnerable wife who has almost no immune system I avoid most of those places offline... simply staying home and caring for her needs. I used to teach and preach in a church setting but when carnal men removed my old pastor, God called me out of there as well, a good while before Covid-19.

The Lord won't let me quit this place and others similar even though at times my flesh yearns to do so. Each day I must come back because He still has work for me. No retirement or vacations from God. I am not really complaining because there is no place I would rather be than busy at the Lord's work... but what is His work for me?

Talk about at times walking into hell? Have you ever seen yourself as a hell maker when you thought you were serving God? You don't have to answer that. When you misunderstood me and refused to back off consider what my flesh was going through. Could you picture yourself in my shoes? God and Elijah? God told Elijah to get away from that way of thinking!

So here and elsewhere on the Internet [also off it seems] many want confrontations. If need be and God is in it, so am I, but my flesh is tired and my flesh is still asserting itself. God is in control, but at times I make it difficult.
 
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Paul Christensen

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Oh my friend in the Lord alone I am comfortable. He is my place of rest as Jesus said it...

"Come unto me...and I will give you rest"

But this place, this forum is no place of rest. This is one of the battlegrounds. Better than the offline world of men? Hmmm? At age 77 myself with an extremely vulnerable wife who has almost no immune system I avoid most of those places offline... simply staying home and caring for her needs. I used to teach and preach in a church setting but when carnal men removed my old pastor, God called me out of there as well, a good while before Covid-19.

The Lord won't let me quit this place and others similar even though at times my flesh yearns to do so. Each day I must come back because He still has work for me. No retirement or vacations from God. I am not really complaining because there is no place I would rather be than busy at the Lord's work... but what is His work for me?

Talk about at times walking into hell? Have you ever seen yourself as a hell maker when you thought you were serving God? You don't have to answer that. When you misunderstood me and refused to back off consider what my flesh was going through. Could you picture yourself in my shoes? God and Elijah? God told Elijah to get away from that way of thinking!

So here and elsewhere on the Internet [also off it seems] many want confrontations. If need be and God is in it, so am I, but my flesh is tired and my flesh is still asserting itself. God is in control, but at times I make it difficult.
I am 73 years old, so I am a young guy compared to you. When I moved cities a year ago, I left all my friends and contacts, and came to place where I had no contacts, or even a church to go to. I asked the Lord to guide me into what He had for me here, and I was directed to a small Union church (Methodist/Presbyterian) with six old ladies and one gentleman in it. I was puzzled why I was led to such a church where there seemed to be no prospects for serving the Lord effectively. He told me, "It is more about what you can put into a church than what you can get out of it. That church needs someone like you to teach them the Bible." After a year, I am on the management committee, conduct services and preach once a month, and am the backup pianist when the normal one is away. Before I joined that church, although I could play the piano for myself, I had no confidence to play for a church congregation. Because of the total support I got from the others when I first tried to play a hymn that I knew, I was greatly encouraged and I got over the "hump" to be able to play in the services. In my previous church I nearly got there, but two people criticised me and their criticism destroyed any confidence I had and I didn't think I would ever be able to play the piano in church services. But it took six old ladies and a Methodist minister to enable me to play, and being able to play in services is a major achievement for me.

So, I an encouraged that there is still miles on the clock for me and that God has created a ministry for me in the most unlikely place. God has never stopped creating since he created the world. He is always creating a future for us, and He is quite able to create wonderful things out of nothing, and open doors for us that are not there!

So, maybe you could think outside the square and ask the Lord to guide you to a church that you would make a meaningful contribution. It may be in a totally different denomination that you are used to. I have a Pentecostal background, but over the years the Lord has led me to Anglican, Baptist and Presbyterian churches where doors of contribution have always opened for me, and no one has rejected me because of my background. I never thought that I would end up in a small church with six old ladies, and that I increased the male membership by 100%! If you start thinking outside of the square, you may see that there are churches in your area that are crying out for manpower, and that your gifts may be totally welcome. It may be only denominational prejudice that may prevent many from going through doors that God has designed for them. My Union church has many liberal elements to it and I have to pick the meat from the bones, but when I preach, I don't compromise, but preach the Bible, and my ministry is being welcomed. This is the Holy Spirit and God's grace at work for those valuable people.
 
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amadeus

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I am 73 years old, so I am a young guy compared to you. When I moved cities a year ago, I left all my friends and contacts, and came to place where I had no contacts, or even a church to go to. I asked the Lord to guide me into what He had for me here, and I was directed to a small Union church (Methodist/Presbyterian) with six old ladies and one gentleman in it. I was puzzled why I was led to such a church where there seemed to be no prospects for serving the Lord effectively. He told me, "It is more about what you can put into a church than what you can get out of it. That church needs someone like you to teach them the Bible." After a year, I am on the management committee, conduct services and preach once a month, and am the backup pianist when the normal one is away. Before I joined that church, although I could play the piano for myself, I had no confidence to play for a church congregation. Because of the total support I got from the others when I first tried to play a hymn that I knew, I was greatly encouraged and I got over the "hump" to be able to play in the services. In my previous church I nearly got there, but two people criticised me and their criticism destroyed any confidence I had and I didn't think I would ever be able to play the piano in church services. But it took six old ladies and a Methodist minister to enable me to play, and being able to play in services is a major achievement for me.
For many years when I was attending a church where their services were held at 4:30PM on Sunday afternoon, I would almost always enjoy visiting other churches in the area for their morning services. I did that for years until the Lord called us out of there. We moved 50 miles to do God's work, which we thought was one thing, but turned out to be very different. We were there to support the pastor and his wife as we discovered. My wife became the confidant and close sister in the Lord to the pastor's wife, who was also the primary pianist, for those last few months of her life. We moved there in April. In July she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and told by the doctors that the end for her was near. They could nothing but ease her suffering a little. Indeed, she died in September, but not without teaching my wife by example how to live even closer to God. My wife had not expected that as she had been serving God at my side me for 36 years. It is never too late to grow closer to God.

I continued working with the other half of that marriage [66 year duration], the pastor. When a power hungry person in the church had the pastor removed I stayed with him, now a lonely widower who loved God. I still visit him weekly for a Bible study. It has been 8 years since his wife passed on. He is now 95 years old and still travelling to churches to minister to people even though he had no official position. God is not finished with him yet.

Why does God do what He does? He certainly always knows what He doing. We simply need to follow closely!


So, I an encouraged that there is still miles on the clock for me and that God has created a ministry for me in the most unlikely place. God has never stopped creating since he created the world. He is always creating a future for us, and He is quite able to create wonderful things out of nothing, and open doors for us that are not there!
God has blessed you and used you. Thank you for sharing this here.
So, maybe you could think outside the square and ask the Lord to guide you to a church that you would make a meaningful contribution. It may be in a totally different denomination that you are used to. I have a Pentecostal background, but over the years the Lord has led me to Anglican, Baptist and Presbyterian churches where doors of contribution have always opened for me, and no one has rejected me because of my background. I never thought that I would end up in a small church with six old ladies, and that I increased the male membership by 100%! If you start thinking outside of the square, you may see that there are churches in your area that are crying out for manpower, and that your gifts may be totally welcome. It may be only denominational prejudice that may prevent many from going through doors that God has designed for them. My Union church has many liberal elements to it and I have to pick the meat from the bones, but when I preach, I don't compromise, but preach the Bible, and my ministry is being welcomed. This is the Holy Spirit and God's grace at work for those valuable people.
When they first put my pastor out a couple of years ago I began visiting assemblies around us kind of expecting to eventually be led somewhere since I no longer had a 'home church'. I was doing that but mostly alone as my wife simply did not have the strength or endurance to go all of those places and to sit in a pew any more. Then along came Covid-19 and I haven't been in a church building since. Between the needs of my wife and my old pastor and a little bit online, I am really fully occupied. When my pastor needs help of any kind, it is me he calls. He never had natural children and has outlived all of his other family. When he sick, which is rarely, I am the one he calls. I am the one who responds. I might have liked to find something like what you found, but God was not in it. Perhaps there is still a future like that for me, but not at the moment.

Thank you for your interest and kindness.
 
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2nd Timothy Group

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Oh my friend in the Lord alone I am comfortable. He is my place of rest as Jesus said it...

"Come unto me...and I will give you rest"

But this place, this forum is no place of rest. This is one of the battlegrounds. Better than the offline world of men? Hmmm? At age 77 myself with an extremely vulnerable wife who has almost no immune system I avoid most of those places offline... simply staying home and caring for her needs. I used to teach and preach in a church setting but when carnal men removed my old pastor, God called me out of there as well, a good while before Covid-19.

The Lord won't let me quit this place and others similar even though at times my flesh yearns to do so. Each day I must come back because He still has work for me. No retirement or vacations from God. I am not really complaining because there is no place I would rather be than busy at the Lord's work... but what is His work for me?

Talk about at times walking into hell? Have you ever seen yourself as a hell maker when you thought you were serving God? You don't have to answer that. When you misunderstood me and refused to back off consider what my flesh was going through. Could you picture yourself in my shoes? God and Elijah? God told Elijah to get away from that way of thinking!

So here and elsewhere on the Internet [also off it seems] many want confrontations. If need be and God is in it, so am I, but my flesh is tired and my flesh is still asserting itself. God is in control, but at times I make it difficult.

Amadeus . . . I have tasted literal Hell, and I have tasted literal Heaven. I have felt Powers that are not a part of this Universe.

We need to simplify. We need to believe. We need to be Faithful. We need to know how to rest even though we live in an unrestful world. Be easy; be easy.

Did I mention that we need to simplify? Be simple, Amadeus. You've been waiting for that message, so don't let it slip away as though it were not written.

You'll be fine. :)
 
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amadeus

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Amadeus . . . I have tasted literal Hell, and I have tasted literal Heaven. I have felt Powers that are not a part of this Universe.

We need to simplify. We need to believe. We need to be Faithful. We need to know how to rest even though we live in an unrestful world. Be easy; be easy.

Did I mention that we need to simply? Be simple, Amadeus. You've been waiting for that message, so don't let it slip away as though it were not written.

You'll be fine. :)
Thank you for your kind words and that simple message. What a mighty God we serve!
 
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