Rome's 7 0F 10 Hills

Feel free to quote any reputable historian. Pick one, and show where there is a Median empire sandwiched between the Babylonian and Medo/Persian (under Cyrus the Great).

Click to expand...

I have. The historian I quote is Daniel of the bible. One that you refuse to listen to since your faith is in the secularist.

It's not that difficult to see that Darius conquered Babylon and ruled it for a short while. The Median Empire was smaller and shortlived and is the inferior kingdom. It is also explained in Daniel 8 as the smaller horn that came up first.

Your argument is totally debunked by the simple to understand scripture verses in Daniel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah. The info I posted from Wiki was what you asked for! You said that you had never seen any one interpret the inferior kingdom of Daniel 2 as the Medes. That theory is older than the one you believe in. Your bible prophecy experts and scholars have misled you.

You are the one that said,

I also challenge you to provide any historical authority which substantiates your claim of an independent Median Empire, and independent Persian Empire which fits between the Babylonian and Grecian Empires,

Click to expand...

Do you consider the bible a historical book?

You have a mountain of scriptural evidence working against you.　

In Isaiah 13, God say's He would stir up the Mede's against Babylon. Not the Persian's!

Daniel 5 quotes Darius the Mede as the one who "took" Babylon at the age of 62.

Daniel, Isaiah's, and Jeremiah's prophecies ascribe the conquest and destruction of Babylon to the Medes. NOT THE PERSIANS!

Daniel 5:31
"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

Isaiah 13:17
"Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, ie.(Babylon)

Jeremiah 51:11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.

You also said,

*Please do not cite others which skew the truth as you are doing. A simple Wikipedia should suffice.

Click to expand...

Where are you comming from??? I never quoted anyone or anything other than GODS WORD!

I don't like to quote Wiki if I don't need to. God's Word is very clear that the Medes conquered Babylon and I consider it unnecessary to quote anything or anyone else. So I granted your wishes anyway.

From Wiki...
Another view has been more popular among Jewish scholars, at least as far back as Flavius Josephus, and has support from 20th century Biblical scholars such as John J. CollinsHYPERLINK \l "cite_note-3"[4] as well as conservative Christian scholars such as H. H. Rowley, Gurney, Lucas, and Walton.[5]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-5"[6]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-lucas-6"[7] The proposed sequence is:

The gold head - Babylon

The silver breast and arms - Media

The copper belly and thighs - Persia

The iron legs - Greece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_2
_______________________________________________________________________

You said,

The problem with false doctrines is they supercede both Scripture and History. And you epitomize that circumstance.

Click to expand...

Well then stop believing in false doctrine and change your mind! Your problem is that you allow secular history to supercede biblical history. You don't like that about 10 verses in the bible debunk your theory, so you blame everything except yourself! Rather than admit that the bible proves you wrong on this issue you continue on your unbiblical rant.

The following verses alone debunk your theories!

You said Darius was the last king of Babylon. You said that Cyrus conquered Babylon.

Daniel 5:30 　¶In that night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain.

31 　And Darius the Median took the kingdom, being about threescore and two years old.

Daniel 6:1 　¶It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;


If you like I can break down these verses and spoon feed them to you but my guess is that you will continue to remain in denial.

I'm about spent trying to convince you on this very simple issue. The Word of God is abosolutely clear and that should be enough. But if you want to go against God's Word and continue on making a fool of yourself on a public forum...go right ahead!
What's this "to all" stuff? I thought it was you and I discussing this. I suppose your just trying to appease your 'listening audience' after I expose your explicit blunders.

kaoticprofit said:

...
Your argument is totally debunked by the simple to understand scripture verses in Daniel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah.
...

Click to expand...

Your argument is totally debunked by the simple inability to grasp the TRUTH of BOTH Scripture and History If a Word is given, that prophecy must be fulfilled. Unfortunately, you make GOD a liar.


Deuteronomy 18:22 (NKJV)
[sup]22[/sup] when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.


Jeremiah 28:9 (NKJV)
[sup]9[/sup] As for the prophet who prophesies of peace, when the word of the prophet comes to pass, the prophet will be known as one whom the LORD has truly sent.”



Provide your historical evidence or find a GOD who is "truly sent".


BibleScribe

kaoticprofit said:

What's disturbing is that a child could read the bible and figure out that Darius the Mede conquered Babylon.

"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

A child could read the bible and and figure out that the Mede's conquered Babylon.

Isaiah 13:17
"Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, ie.(Babylon)

Jeremiah 51:11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.

Some things are a no-brainer, and this my friend is a no-brainer.

It all started when Rome crucified Christ, destroyed the temple and perseciuted Christians afterwards etc. so then Rome acquired the stigmatization of the end-time beast. Protestants were, and many still are, convinced that somehow Rome will re-emerge in the last days. Their belief that Rome is the legs of iron and toes mingled with iron and clay was re-enforced by secular historians who attributed the conquest of Babylon to Cyrus the Great. The secularist have very little history on Darius and don't consider the bible historically authentic. What's sickening is that the Protestants know that there's little secular history on Darius and that the bible IS the historical authority on him. I believe that their denial of Darius and stigmatism of Rome can still be attributed to prejudisms that some Protestants still hold against Rome. They accept the historical value of the secularist and deny a simple historical truth in God's Word. And so do you.

These kind of blunders promoted by the Protestants have been caught onto by atheist Kyle Williams. He has attempted to debunk the book of Daniel and the bible primarily on the premise of the Protestant interpretation of the book of Daniel.

You and many Protestant's are saying that history proves Persia under Cyrus the Great conquered Babylon. But the bible says the Mede's under Darius conquered Babylon.
And that's just the information atheist Kyle William's used to debunk the bible. You've put your faith in the secular historian's about Darius. And so do the atheist! Google Kyle Williams debunks the bible and check it out.

I really don't know why Christian's have such a hard time accepting such simple truths.

I would prophesy in Jesus name that Darius conquered Babylon, that the legs of iron are Greece, and the iron and clay is the Arabs.

Enough said!

Click to expand...

Is that all you have as proof that Rome is not associated with the end times, and is not the legs of iron of Dan's statue?? And how is it that in one instance, "iron" is Greece, and then all of a sudden the "iron" somehow morphs into Arabs? Iron is either one or the other, they cannot represent two totally different things in any prophetic language, otherwise, God would be trying to confuse us simpletons.

Rev 12:3 & 4 clearly show - to any child - that the great red dragon "...stood before the woman ( Israel / Judaism ) which was READY TO BE DELIVERED, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." This text clearly indicates that Rome, that is, the Roman Empire, was the empire in existence at the time of the birth of Christ. Indeed, Herod - a puppet of the Roman Empire - seeked to kill Christ by initiating the "slaughter of the Innocents" whereby all male children under 2 yrs old were put to death, in an effort to kill Christ, bringing absolute credence to Rev 12:3 & 4. Further, there is ample evidence in Rev 17 & 18 that the Great Whore who sits on the very same dragon, is none other than the Catholic Church, who has it's central headquarters in Rome's Vatican City.

Show us outside of Daniel where any reference to Muslim nations figure-into the prophecies.

The Arab nations have their date with destiny alright. They will be obliterated by the hand of God. This is prophesied, and that is their only claim to fame in any of the prophecies. If your hatred of the Muslims is such that you seek a prophetic fulfillment for them from the pages of the Bible, then you should be content with their obliteration by God himself.

Hi kaoticprofit.

kaoticprofit said:

...
The silver breast and arms - Media

The copper belly and thighs - Persia
...

Click to expand...

BibleScribe said:

Deuteronomy 18:22 (NKJV)
[sup]22[/sup] when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Jeremiah 28:9 (NKJV)
[sup]9[/sup] As for the prophet who prophesies of peace, when the word of the prophet comes to pass, the prophet will be known as one whom the LORD has truly sent.”

Click to expand...

Once again: Provide your historical evidence and stop making empty excuses.







To All,

I would hope that all would see such a flagrant disregard for GODs Word. Either a prophecy is given and a fulfillment realized, or GOD is a liar.

Romans 16:18
For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

Colossians 2:4
Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words.

... for who is the the chief deceiver, and who should choose to follow that example?



But GOD's chosen know that a Word sent from GOD shall come to pass, as we are NOT called to be "simple".

BibleScribe

Is that all you have as proof that Rome is not associated with the end times, and is not the legs of iron of Dan's statue?? And how is it that in one instance, "iron" is Greece, and then all of a sudden the "iron" somehow morphs into Arabs? Iron is either one or the other, they cannot represent two totally different things in any prophetic language, otherwise, God would be trying to confuse us simpletons.

Click to expand...

You quote Revelation 12:3-4 and one paragraph to support the RRE. Thanks for the detailed exegesis. Sorry! That verse is subject to interpretation because Rome isn't mentioned in the verse.

Just remember this. I have asked all of you to quote one verse of end time prophecy that implicates Rome in the last days and nobody has been able to produce one.

And remember this. If you say Rome is the fourth kingdom, nothing can contradict that theory.

Another problem is that you guys have no hermeneutic. You have no structured objective method of interpretation. You guy's are mere novices at this. Many of you don't believe we need other biblical resources to better our study of God's Word and even call it "extra biblical" to research the meaning of biblical words in the language they were written in. You need to learn what "extra biblical" means.

Another thing is "are you willing to change your mind and willing to accept the truth even if it doesn't agree with what you already believe?" Do you believe what you read in the bible? If the answer is yes then why can't you believe that it wasn't Cyrus and the Persian's who conquered Babylon? Why can't you believe it was Darius and the Mede's!
What is it about Daniel 5:31 that you guys are having trouble understanding?

Daniel 5:31
"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

Media is the arms of silver or "inferior kingdom" and that changes the identity of the fourth kingdom i.e. the legs of iron and toes mingled with iron and clay.

We all agree that Babylon is the head of Gold. The correct identity of the fourth kingdom is dependent upon the correct interpretation of the arms of silver or the "inferior kingdom"

Was the Persian Empire the inferior kingdom?

If you think it was, I'd like you to be the first to prove it for Persia certainly was not inferior to Babylon! Look at what the word inferior means in Daniel 2 where it's the only place in the bible where the word inferior means ground.

The word inferior in Daniel 2:39 is #0772 "arah" which means earth, world, ground. So if "inferior" means ground, you have to explain how the Persian Empire was "land inferior" to Babylon when it was about 3-4 times the size of the Babylonian Empire! The Medo-Persian empire wasn't 'land inferior' and can't be the inferior kingdom! http://www.bluelette...ongs=H772&t=KJV

Daniel 8:3 explains the inferior kingdom.

I was by the river of Ulai. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had [two] horns: and the [two] horns [were] high; but one [was] higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
Daniel 8:19-21
And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end [shall be]. The ram which thou sawest having [two] horns [are] the kings of Media and Persia.

The higher horn that came up last is the Persian Empire. The other horn, the one that was not as high (smaller) that came up first is the Medes. This explains that the Mede's are the smaller kingdom that emerged first...i.e. the inferior kingdom of Daniel 2.

This is in accord with....
Isaiah 13:17
"Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, ie.(Babylon)

And in accord with....

Jeremiah 51:11 　Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.

12 　Set up the standard upon the walls of Babylon, make the watch strong, set up the watchmen, prepare the ambushes: for the LORD hath both devised and done that which he spake against the inhabitants of Babylon.

It's not difficult to see that Cyrus and Persia did not conquer Babylon and they are not "the inferior kingdom!" That is if you believe the written Word of God.

That makes the thighs of bronze the Persian Empire and the legs of iron and toes mingled with iron and clay the Grecian Empire.

If you believe that the fourth kingdom is Rome then I will ask you again.

How can the fourth kingdom be Rome when the word mixed which described the iron and clay is the Aramaic word 'arab' and it denotes an Arabian or infers Arabia?

http://www.bluelette...ngs=H6151&t=KJV

You want more proof about Greece?

The ‘little horn’ of Daniel 7 and 8 who takes his stand against the Prince of princes comes out of Alexander’s splintered kingdom and no where else. And the ‘king of the north" in Daniel 11 and 12, who exalts himself in the time of the end, comes out of the root of Antiochus, again a fragment of Alexander’s empire. Why then do so many prophecy experts continue to tell us that Rome is somehow the origin of the beast!?

It is my belief, and the belief of many others, that the man of sin will be an Assyrian, and come from the geographical area of Ancient Assyria, which is part of the Grecian Empire. Isaiah 10, 14, and 30 all depict an Assyrian as the tool of God's wrath in the last days. (Not a Roman) All the nations mentioned in every prophecy I know are Arab and/or Islamic today and they are commiting the abominations of the earth. Not Rome. Not Catholicism.

You guys have a lot to say but offer nothing in refute to what I ever post. Prove me wrong!

Wher is your proof? Where is your scriptural support?

Rev 12:3 & 4 clearly show - to any child - that the great red dragon "...stood before the woman ( Israel / Judaism ) which was READY TO BE DELIVERED, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." This text clearly indicates that Rome, that is, the Roman Empire, was the empire in existence at the time of the birth of Christ. Indeed, Herod - a puppet of the Roman Empire - seeked to kill Christ by initiating the "slaughter of the Innocents" whereby all male children under 2 yrs old were put to death, in an effort to kill Christ, bringing absolute credence to Rev 12:3 & 4. Further, there is ample evidence in Rev 17 & 18 that the Great Whore who sits on the very same dragon, is none other than the Catholic Church, who has it's central headquarters in Rome's Vatican City.

Click to expand...

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The woman of verse 2 is Israel who was to bring forth the Messiah. And the dragon is Satan. This chapter in no way a prophecy about Rome. How can the dragon be Rome when Michael fought against the dragon! And how did Rome draw 1/3 of the stars of heaven and cast them to earth? Your argument is moot!

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Show us outside of Daniel where any reference to Muslim nations figure-into the prophecies.

Click to expand...

Sure.

Ezekiel 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish,

Psalms 83:4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;
7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;
8 Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.
9 ¶Do unto them as unto the Midianites; as to Sisera, as to Jabin, at the brook of Kison:
10 Which perished at Endor: they became as dung for the earth.
11 Make their nobles like Oreb, and like Zeeb: yea, all their princes as Zebah, and as Zalmunna:
12 Who said, Let us take to ourselves the houses of God in possession. (The ultimate goal of Arab/Islamic countries!)

Isaiah 17:1 ¶The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
2 The cities of Aroer are forsaken: they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
3 The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the LORD of hosts.

'the burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem" (Zech. 12:1-2).
The nations that are round about Jerusalem are all Arab/Islamic!

The Arab nations have their date with destiny alright. They will be obliterated by the hand of God. This is prophesied, and that is their only claim to fame in any of the prophecies. If your hatred of the Muslims is such that you seek a prophetic fulfillment for them from the pages of the Bible, then you should be content with their obliteration by God himself.

Click to expand...

Islam doesn't get obliterated until the end when it and all un-repented Muslim's are destroyed or thrown into the bottomless pit.
Do you hate Catholic's? I'm a Catholic! Where is your forgiveness! Catholics aren't a threat to Israel, Christian's, or the world. Muslim's are!

Islam is evil. Not all Muslim's are evil. I don't hate Muslim's. So stop with that.

You are living in the past.

kaoticprofit said:

...
The silver breast and arms - Media

The copper belly and thighs - Persia
...

Click to expand...

BibleScribe said:

Hi kaoticprofit.

Once again: Provide your historical evidence and stop making empty excuses.

BibleScribe

Click to expand...

To All,

Where "kaoticprofit" would attempt to deceive you regarding an historical account (i.e. Median Empire, and Persian Empire) which never existed, please allow me to once again present what the historical record provides:


http://en.wikipedia....haemenid_Empire
...
At some point in 550 B.C.E., Cyrus the Great rose in rebellion against the Median empire (most likely due to the Medes' mismanagement of Persis), eventually conquering the Medes and creating the first Persian empire. Cyrus the Great would utilize his tactical genius,[sup][17][/sup] as well as his understanding of the socio-political equations governing his territories, to eventually incorporate into the Persian empire the neighbouring Lydian and Neo-Babylonian empires, and also leading the way for his successor, Cambyses II to venture into Egypt and defeat the Hittite Empire and the Egyptian Kingdom.


And of course this Medo/Persian history is recounted through to the Grecian King Alexander:

Darius III was taken prisoner by Bessus, his Bactrian satrap and kinsman. As Alexander approached, Bessus had his men murder Darius III and then declared himself Darius' successor, as Artaxerxes V, before retreating into Central Asia leaving Darius' body in the road to delay Alexander, who brought it to Persepolis for an honorable funeral. Bessus would then create a coalition of his forces, in order to create an army to defend against Alexander. Before Bessus could fully unite with his confederates at the eastern part of the empire,[sup][39][/sup] Alexander, fearing the danger of Bessus gaining control, found him, put him on trial on a Persian court under his control, and ordered his execution in a cruel and barbarous manner.[sup][40][/sup]


As such, certainly neither Wikipedia nor Scripture offers any intermediate empire between the Babylonian Empire under Darius the Mede, and the Medo/Persian Empire under Cyrus the Great.



As such, when examining the sequence of World Empires as given to King Nebuchadnezzar by Daniel we MUST find an historical fulfillment, -- and indeed do find such merit:


1. Gold, Babylonian
2. Silver, Medo/Persian
3. Bronze, Grecian
4. Iron, Roman
5. Clay, "divided"

And we should also anticipate that in the era approximate to the international recognition of the nation if Israel, we DO have a "divided" empire era consisting of three-superpowers. These are cited in Daniel 7 as:

Lion/Eagle, -- U.K./U.S.
Bear, -- Russia
Leopard, -- China

... and of course, we also will have a one-world-government:

"dreadful", -- United Nations



So where GOD is "Intelligent", we who are created in HIS image are to be equally intelligent.


BibleScribe

What's with the "to all" stuff!

To All,
Where the "Scribbler" would attempt to deceive you regarding an historical account (i.e. Median Empire, and Persian Empire) which he say's never existed, please allow me to once again present what biblical historical record provides:

Daniel 5:31
"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

Isaiah 13:17
"Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, ie.(Babylon)

Jeremiah 51:11 　Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.
12 　Set up the standard upon the walls of Babylon, make the watch strong, set up the watchmen, prepare the ambushes: for the LORD hath both devised and done that which he spake against the inhabitants of Babylon.

[quote name='kaoticprofit' timestamp='10 August 2011 - 06:35 PM']
...
The silver breast and arms - Media

The copper belly and thighs - Persia
...
[/quote]


[quote name='BibleScribe' timestamp="12 August 2011 - 08:21 AM']
Hi kaoticprofit.

Once again: Provide your historical evidence and stop making empty excuses.

BibleScribe
[/quote]



To All,

Where "kaoticprofit" would attempt to deceive you regarding an historical account (i.e. Median Empire, and Persian Empire) which never existed, please allow me to once again present what the historical record provides:


http://en.wikipedia....haemenid_Empire
...
At some point in 550 B.C.E., Cyrus the Great rose in rebellion against the Median empire (most likely due to the Medes' mismanagement of Persis), eventually conquering the Medes and creating the first Persian empire. Cyrus the Great would utilize his tactical genius,[sup][17][/sup] as well as his understanding of the socio-political equations governing his territories, to eventually incorporate into the Persian empire the neighbouring Lydian and Neo-Babylonian empires, and also leading the way for his successor, Cambyses II to venture into Egypt and defeat the Hittite Empire and the Egyptian Kingdom.


And of course this Medo/Persian history is recounted through to the Grecian King Alexander:

Darius III was taken prisoner by Bessus, his Bactrian satrap and kinsman. As Alexander approached, Bessus had his men murder Darius III and then declared himself Darius' successor, as Artaxerxes V, before retreating into Central Asia leaving Darius' body in the road to delay Alexander, who brought it to Persepolis for an honorable funeral. Bessus would then create a coalition of his forces, in order to create an army to defend against Alexander. Before Bessus could fully unite with his confederates at the eastern part of the empire,[sup][39][/sup] Alexander, fearing the danger of Bessus gaining control, found him, put him on trial on a Persian court under his control, and ordered his execution in a cruel and barbarous manner.[sup][40][/sup]


As such, certainly neither Wikipedia nor Scripture offers any intermediate empire between the Babylonian Empire under Darius the Mede, and the Medo/Persian Empire under Cyrus the Great.



As such, when examining the sequence of World Empires as given to King Nebuchadnezzar by Daniel we MUST find an historical fulfillment, -- and indeed do find such merit:


1. Gold, Babylonian
2. Silver, Medo/Persian
3. Bronze, Grecian
4. Iron, Roman
5. Clay, "divided"

And we should also anticipate that in the era approximate to the international recognition of the nation if Israel, we DO have a "divided" empire era consisting of three-superpowers. These are cited in Daniel 7 as:

Lion/Eagle, -- U.K./U.S.
Bear, -- Russia
Leopard, -- China

... and of course, we also will have a one-world-government:

"dreadful", -- United Nations



So where GOD is "Intelligent", we who are created in HIS image are to be equally intelligent.


BibleScribe

BS said,

Once again: Provide your historical evidence and stop making empty excuses.

Click to expand...

The empty excuses come from the prophet and historian Daniel, Jeremiah, and Isaiah.......from God's Holy Word which you call "empty excuses!"

Daniel 5:31
"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

Isaiah 13:17
"Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, ie.(Babylon)

Jeremiah 51:11 　Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.

You also said,

So where GOD is "Intelligent", we who are created in HIS image are to be equally intelligent

Click to expand...

I commend you for your willingness to appear like a foolish idiot on a public forum!

[quote name='kaoticprofit' timestamp='10 August 2011 - 06:35 PM']
...
The silver breast and arms - Media

The copper belly and thighs - Persia
...
[/quote]


[quote name='BibleScribe' timestamp="12 August 2011 - 08:21 AM']
Hi kaoticprofit.

Once again: Provide your historical evidence and stop making empty excuses.

BibleScribe
[/quote]



To All,

Where "kaoticprofit" would attempt to deceive you regarding an historical account (i.e. Median Empire, and Persian Empire) which never existed, please allow me to once again present what the historical record provides:


http://en.wikipedia....haemenid_Empire
...
At some point in 550 B.C.E., Cyrus the Great rose in rebellion against the Median empire (most likely due to the Medes' mismanagement of Persis), eventually conquering the Medes and creating the first Persian empire. Cyrus the Great would utilize his tactical genius,[sup][17][/sup] as well as his understanding of the socio-political equations governing his territories, to eventually incorporate into the Persian empire the neighbouring Lydian and Neo-Babylonian empires, and also leading the way for his successor, Cambyses II to venture into Egypt and defeat the Hittite Empire and the Egyptian Kingdom.


And of course this Medo/Persian history is recounted through to the Grecian King Alexander:

Darius III was taken prisoner by Bessus, his Bactrian satrap and kinsman. As Alexander approached, Bessus had his men murder Darius III and then declared himself Darius' successor, as Artaxerxes V, before retreating into Central Asia leaving Darius' body in the road to delay Alexander, who brought it to Persepolis for an honorable funeral. Bessus would then create a coalition of his forces, in order to create an army to defend against Alexander. Before Bessus could fully unite with his confederates at the eastern part of the empire,[sup][39][/sup] Alexander, fearing the danger of Bessus gaining control, found him, put him on trial on a Persian court under his control, and ordered his execution in a cruel and barbarous manner.[sup][40][/sup]


As such, certainly neither Wikipedia nor Scripture offers any intermediate empire between the Babylonian Empire under Darius the Mede, and the Medo/Persian Empire under Cyrus the Great.



As such, when examining the sequence of World Empires as given to King Nebuchadnezzar by Daniel we MUST find an historical fulfillment, -- and indeed do find such merit:


1. Gold, Babylonian
2. Silver, Medo/Persian
3. Bronze, Grecian
4. Iron, Roman
5. Clay, "divided"

And we should also anticipate that in the era approximate to the international recognition of the nation if Israel, we DO have a "divided" empire era consisting of three-superpowers. These are cited in Daniel 7 as:

Lion/Eagle, -- U.K./U.S.
Bear, -- Russia
Leopard, -- China

... and of course, we also will have a one-world-government:

"dreadful", -- United Nations



So where GOD is "Intelligent", we who are created in HIS image are to be equally intelligent.


BibleScribe

To All,

Scripture says that prophecy must be confirmed by history:

Deuteronomy 18:22 (NKJV)
[sup]22[/sup] when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Jeremiah 28:9 (NKJV)
[sup]9[/sup] As for the prophet who prophesies of peace, when the word of the prophet comes to pass, the prophet will be known as one whom the LORD has truly sent.”


And where false doctrines fail to meet this dictate, these false teachers unabashedly create a false history:

kaoticprofit said:

...
The silver breast and arms - Media

The copper belly and thighs - Persia
...

Click to expand...

But the title of this Topic is in reference to Revelation 17, which calls the seven mountains, seven kings. And I would simply observe that both Scripture and History provide for seven world empires for which the last three are concurrent, being "divided" between the three superpowers.

Does Daniel 7 leave any clarity to the imagination? Isn't the U.K./U.S. the Lion/Eagle? Isn't Russia the Bear, and don't the three ribs represent the three (and ONLY three) internationally recognized violations of Agreements and National Sovereignty? And is it surprising that where Leopards were imported from Africa, but Tigers not yet imported from the east, that Daniel should call the vertically marked cat which he saw, by the circularly marked cat which he could name? And isn't China the Tiger (i.e., Leopard), and doesn't China have Four Heads, and Four Wings, as fulfilled by the respective branches of government, and the "Four Modernizations" in which nearly every non-perishable item is marked "Made In China"?


Thus it should not come as a surprise when GOD provides what History has substantiated:


1. Gold, Babylonian
2. Silver, Medo/Persian
3. Bronze, Grecian
4. Iron, Roman
-- Clay, "divided"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, -- U.K./U.S.
-- 6. Bear, -- Russia
-- 7. Leopard, -- China


... and of course, we also will have a one-world-government:

-- 8. "dreadful", -- United Nations


But what good is Prophetic Scripture if our doctrines blind us, and who benefits from our ignorance? -- Could GOD have made Prophecy any more clear?



BibleScribe

BS,
On another thread you said,
　

It's really not hard for us to follow Scripture, for we receive from GOD. However, not all are as firmly planted in Christ, and thus I would adjure the less rooted Christians to be wary of wolves, -- both here in this Forum and in this Topic.

Click to expand...

So why is it that you deny........
Daniel 5:31
"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

Isaiah 13:17
"Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, ie.(Babylon)

Jeremiah 51:11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.

There aren't any wolves on this forum. In the early days of the church, false prophets were excommunicated from the church and false teachers were given a second chance. These wolves typically do not come from within it. They come from outside of it.

So many Christian's are bent on slandering the church. Identifying people as wolves within the church does nothing for the cause of Jesus Christ. That's what the devil wants people to hear! i.e. that there are 'wolves' in the church!

kaoticprofit said:

BS,
So why is it that you deny........

Click to expand...

If you fully read the quote you attributed to me, then you should discern that you are NOT of the first group, or the second group, but are from the third group. Thus you don't follow Scripture, and do not receive from GOD. So why do you ask for that which you cannot receive?


BibleScribe




To All,

Please be most assured that I can easily defend both Scripture and History in the correct identification and assignment of Darius the Mede. That's a simple process.

Of course I choose not to argue with a brick wall, or head, -- for Scripture instructs us not to answer a fool according to his folly. But if ANYONE should express an interest in that discussion, I would most gladly present that case for TRUTH.

BibleScribe

BibleScribe said:

If you fully read the quote you attributed to me, then you should discern that you are NOT of the first group, or the second group, but are from the third group. Thus you don't follow Scripture, and do not receive from GOD. So why do you ask for that which you cannot receive?


BibleScribe




To All,

Please be most assured that I can easily defend both Scripture and History in the correct identification and assignment of Darius the Mede. That's a simple process.

Of course I choose not to argue with a brick wall, or head, -- for Scripture instructs us not to answer a fool according to his folly. But if ANYONE should express an interest in that discussion, I would most gladly present that case for TRUTH.

BibleScribe

Click to expand...

Hey Scribbler. If false teachings were electricity, you would be a walking power plant!

Is there anything you do besides SLANDER?



You may be old, feeble, and weak in mind, -- but you should never forget to fear GOD.

John 20
[sup]23[/sup] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

BibleScribe

BibleScribe said:

Is there anything you do besides SLANDER?



You may be old, feeble, and weak in mind, -- but you should never forget to fear GOD.

John 20
[sup]23[/sup] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

BibleScribe

Click to expand...

I'm just adding a little humor to your sickening replies!

I have a great idea. I'm putting you and the other num skull popeye on ignore. That way I don't have to deal with junk or punks!

To ALL,

Well, to popeye and the Scribbler anyway!

You are both on ignore. Thank God for the ignore option!

It is done! The only thing I now see is, "This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by BibleScribe."....and popeye of course.

You are so full of blather, but that's ok. I suppose that dementia has visited you, but I feel sorry for those around you.

Its been a while since I surfed this site and it still gets dominated by the same posters strongly pushing their own theories onto others as though others are so blind and naive. That and arguments within themselves. What worries me is when theories that are mostly unique to the individual and not ideas that are generally accepted by the church as a whole. From my experience within the church, God confirms things through many.

I think most Christians from across the ages feel and accept that Rome was and is the beast with ten horns. I think Revelations 12 more than most confirms that this beast started as the Rome Empire. That's without the prophesied of Daniel.

Rome never really fell or got truly destroyed as a city. It still to this day sits as a powerful identity within an empire split into many divisions. split into many but help together as a powerful allegience through pacts and treaties.

Look even at the time of the crusades. It was a war fought by a beast of many divisions all held together as one. Iraq, Afghanistan are lead by the same nations just years ahead. The United States of America was basically colonized and run by people descended from the lands of the Roman Empire. As were countries such as Australia.

When we look at Islam, do we count it as a whole? or do we say, "no that wasn't Mecca, that was Istanbul" or "no, that wasn't Saudi Arabia, that was Iran".

There are two major beast with real global influence sitting on the Earth today. One born from Rome and the other born from Mecca.

Then we have the God's kingdom spread across the Earth which was born from Israel.

Tsigano said:

...
I think most Christians from across the ages feel and accept that Rome was and is the beast with ten horns. I think Revelations 12 more than most confirms that this beast started as the Rome Empire. ...

Click to expand...

Hi Tsigano,

I don't disagree that many have failed to understand simple world history, in that the Roman Empire dissolved between 425 - 625 AD, according to historians.

However, who in their right mind would think that if all the earth shall be subject to a one-world government that this references Europe? Are the other continents exempt for this Scriptural dictate? Does Jesus return to rule and reign only over this quadrant of the earth?

So then one might add the evidence which you disregard, -- that being the evidence from Daniel 2:45, which clearly states there are not FOUR world empires (i.e., 1,2,3,4a,4b), but instead FIVE (i.e., 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE). And who is this Fifth "divided" empire, except the three superpowers?

And being Daniel 2 demand FIVE; and Daniel 7 depicts FOUR, then isn't it reasonable to observe that the Lion/Bear/Leopard represent the three superpowers, and the "dreadful" is the one-world-government?

And where this "dreadful" is judged by Jesus, then the three would continue for a "season and a time" until they are converted into the New Millennium Kingdom?

Daniel 7:11-12
[sup]11[/sup] “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. [sup]12[/sup] As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.


And of course, it's important to recognize the 10 aligned nations, which were identified in August of 1993. But where history clearly supports the future, conjecture is absent any evidence.



BibleScribe