How Do You Define Death?

Nancy · Jan 4, 2021

April_Rose said:
Okay I'll admit that I don't know what that means, but I'm betting with every bit of knowledge that I got that that isn't what it's saying. Why would God create animals in the first place if He didn't have a further purpose for them? (Oh and that's a rhetorical question btw.)

Isaiah 11:6-9
The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea."

And of course, we KNOW that there will be horses there!!!

Revelation 19:11
"Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war."

Ecclesiastes 3:21
"Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?"

Several more but, I think we get the pic! YAY!

Nancy · Jan 4, 2021

quietthinker said:
the story/parable in itself is not the focus of attention. It is the message conveyed that matters. Miss the message and everything is missed.

Hi Q.T.,
Not to mention that Jesus ONLY spoke in parables when in public.

Matthew 13:34
"All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:"

And I do agree Q.T. - "It is the message conveyed that matters."

I say they are used to illustrate the truth of a matter. They are all true to life situations, after all. Even if all the parts or details of the parable never happened...the truth and core message is still the same.

Nancy · Jan 4, 2021

BarnyFife said:
All scripture is given...

I was just thinking the same thing. If that was true, why not lighten our load and just rip out the parts that are "just poetry"

And, who is to say what parts are "just poetry" and which are not??

quietthinker · Jan 4, 2021

Nancy said:
Hi Q.T.,
Not to mention that Jesus ONLY spoke in parables when in public.

Matthew 13:34
"All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:"

And I do agree Q.T. - "It is the message conveyed that matters."

I say they are used to illustrate the truth of a matter. They are all true to life situations, after all. Even if all the parts or details of the parable never happened...the truth and core message is still the same.

Yes Nancy. Interpreting parables is like interpreting the sacrifices in the OT. One can create ones own meaning and turn the sacrifice into something removed from its intent just as one can a parable. Herein is revealed whether one is wise or foolish.

Nancy · Jan 4, 2021

quietthinker said:
Yes Nancy. Interpreting parables is like interpreting the sacrifices in the OT. One can create ones own meaning and turn the sacrifice into something removed from its intent just as one can a parable. Herein is revealed whether one is wise or foolish.

Hi Q.T.,
OT sacrificial concepts are not something that I know much about except of course, the sacrifices, yearly, for their sins. All of the ceremonial laws and other types of sacrifice to God are pretty foreign to me.

Taken · Jan 4, 2021

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
Taken said:
Death- Separation from God...
body or soul or spirit[/Quote\]

Jesus Christ said death was like sleep. Most probably like deep sleep. People are not aware of there surroundings during deep sleep. People who say your awake in heaven at the moment of death are saying Jesus doesn't know what he's talking about. The dead don't begin to wake from the dead until the resurrection begins at the second presence of Jesus Christ.

Physical "bodily" Death is like "sleep", unaware... like sleep, in a fashion, that all Body's shall be risen up and Judged.
Some risen in glory.
Some risen in damnation.

quietthinker · Jan 4, 2021

Nancy said:
Hi Q.T.,
OT sacrificial concepts are not something that I know much about except of course, the sacrifices, yearly, for their sins. All of the ceremonial laws and other types of sacrifice to God are pretty foreign to me.

hmmmm, I'm surprised to hear this. Liberation from poorly cobbled views that abound in Christian circles starts with an understanding of sacrifice.....in particular the Hebrew tabernacle/temple yearly rituals/cycles.

In short, they are symbols of the story of Salvation. Every part and practice reflects an aspect of this story....an understanding of which is extremely helpful if one wants a deeper understanding.....even a more accurate one of how God deals with the story of sin.

Nancy · Jan 4, 2021

quietthinker said:
hmmmm, I'm surprised to hear this. Liberation from poorly cobbled views that abound in Christian circles starts with an understanding of sacrifice.....in particular the Hebrew tabernacle/temple yearly rituals/cycles.

In short, they are symbols of the story of Salvation. Every part and practice reflects an aspect of this story....an understanding of which is extremely helpful if one wants a deeper understanding.....even a more accurate one of how God deals with the story of sin.

"hmmmm, I'm surprised to hear this."

Lol, you shouldn't be surprised as, the mainline church's for the most part do not teach on these things very much, if at all. Not that there are not church's out there that DO teach more deeply on this but...I've not really "belonged" to a body that did.
Also, we have to keep in mind some of the ones who may not have the intellect or understanding to be able to delve that deeply, some living near me, cannot even read... This is something that I think should be included in private groups of bible study. I see so many kind of fading out, fidgeting, getting on their phones or just plain bored when the "deeper" things of God are being explained from the pulpit.

And, yes..."the story of sin"...it's on every page. So, yeah, I'd say it's pretty darned important! It is the only thing He asks us not to do...one thing. Kinda like A&E, lol. And to realize how all of those rituals, cycles and tabernacles, feasts, DO all lead up to our "ultimate" sacrifice, Christ

is very interesting indeed but, also can be complicated, confusing also...so, that too is on the shelf next to a lot of other things!

amigo de christo · Jan 4, 2021

For the end of sin is death .
Now LIFE and LIFE ETERNAL , THAT IS KING JESUS . Let all that has breath run to HE ALONE for salvation . LET THE LORD be praised .

BARNEY BRIGHT · Jan 4, 2021

Taken said:
Physical "bodily" Death is like "sleep", unaware... like sleep, in a fashion, that all Body's shall be risen up and Judged.
Some risen in glory.
Some risen in damnation.

Nowhere in the scriptures does it say it's just the body that's dead. The scriptures when talking about death is talking about the death of a person. Those who believe we have souls instead of believing the truth that we are souls, will never believe in death. They will never believe it's the person who dies. When God said Adam was dust and he was returning to the dust God was talking to the person who was Adam when God said that, God wasn't talking only to some part of Adam but God was to the person who was Adam.

CharismaticLady · Jan 4, 2021

quietthinker said:
hmmmm, I'm surprised to hear this. Liberation from poorly cobbled views that abound in Christian circles starts with an understanding of sacrifice.....in particular the Hebrew tabernacle/temple yearly rituals/cycles.

In short, they are symbols of the story of Salvation. Every part and practice reflects an aspect of this story....an understanding of which is extremely helpful if one wants a deeper understanding.....even a more accurate one of how God deals with the story of sin.

I praise God that the denomination I was raised in was SDA, and not one of those liberal churches that hardly know the milk of the gospel, let alone the deeper things. SDA was like grade school, learning the basics that are so important to build on. Then I went on to another denomination that taught their version of grace (wrong), but at least I learned that there was more. But I had to get out of all denominations to learn the meat, that leads to sinlessness, the apostles teachings that I don't find in any denomination.

quietthinker · Jan 4, 2021

Nancy said:
"hmmmm, I'm surprised to hear this."

Lol, you shouldn't be surprised as, the mainline church's for the most part do not teach on these things very much, if at all. Not that there are not church's out there that DO teach more deeply on this but...I've not really "belonged" to a body that did.
Also, we have to keep in mind some of the ones who may not have the intellect or understanding to be able to delve that deeply, some living near me, cannot even read... This is something that I think should be included in private groups of bible study. I see so many kind of fading out, fidgeting, getting on their phones or just plain bored when the "deeper" things of God are being explained from the pulpit.

And, yes..."the story of sin"...it's on every page. So, yeah, I'd say it's pretty darned important! It is the only thing He asks us not to do...one thing. Kinda like A&E, lol. And to realize how all of those rituals, cycles and tabernacles, feasts, DO all lead up to our "ultimate" sacrifice, Christ is very interesting indeed but, also can be complicated, confusing also...so, that too is on the shelf next to a lot of other things!

We are in need of as much help as we can get in understanding Salvation Nancy. Imagine if a mechanic said 'oh well, now that I have the engine in front of me I can scrap the plans, I don't need them any more, they are not important because I have the real deal in front of me.' He can do that but will be the poorer for it in his understanding. Plans are great reference points....they reveal angles and elements/details that are not seen or easily missed.....details that give a rounded picture.

CharismaticLady · Jan 4, 2021

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
Nowhere in the scriptures does it say it's just the body that's dead. The scriptures when talking about death is talking about the death of a person. Those who believe we have souls instead of believing the truth that we are souls, will never believe in death. They will never believe it's the person who dies. When God said Adam was dust and he was returning to the dust God was talking to the person who was Adam when God said that, God wasn't talking only to some part of Adam but God was to the person who was Adam.

Not sure what you are getting at here, but what I believe about what needs to be born again is the mind and spirit (our nature) which dies with Christ on the cross, and is resurrected to immortality to partake of the divine nature of God. The third part of us is the body, which doesn't sin, as it is just a shell, but will die BECAUSE of Adam's sin, and must also put on immortality.

BARNEY BRIGHT · Jan 4, 2021

CharismaticLady said:
Not sure what you are getting at here, but what I believe about what needs to be born again is the mind and spirit (our nature) which dies with Christ on the cross, and is resurrected to immortality to partake of the divine nature of God. The third part of us is the body, which doesn't sin, as it is just a shell, but will die BECAUSE of Adam's sin, and must also put on immortality.

I was replying to another member who was saying that it's only the body that sleeps in death. I replied that the scriptures don't talk about only the body sleeping in death but instead when the scriptures speaks about a person sleeping in death that's exactly what that means, that person, is sleeping in death. When Jesus said Lazarus was sleeping in death to his Apostles, Jesus was talking about the person they knew as Lazarus was sleeping death. Jesus didn't say that only Lazarus body was sleeping. This is the piont the scriptures talk about persons sleeping in death not just bodies. When someone is saying only the body sleeps in death, they're saying the person is still living and they believe like the pagans do who didn't believe in death but instead believed death was just a doorway to another plain of existence. So in other words people who believe only the body sleeps in death, believe the person lives on elsewhere. Basically I believe such people are agreeing with the serpent that told Eve she wouldn't die. Eve who was a person died, she is dead.

CharismaticLady · Jan 4, 2021

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
I was replying to another member who was saying that it's only the body that sleeps in death. I replied that the scriptures don't talk about only the body sleeping in death but instead when the scriptures speaks about a person sleeping in death that's exactly what that means, that person, is sleeping in death. When Jesus said Lazarus was sleeping in death to his Apostles, Jesus was talking about the person they knew as Lazarus was sleeping death. Jesus didn't say that only Lazarus body was sleeping. This is the piont the scriptures talk about persons sleeping in death not just bodies. When someone is saying only the body sleeps in death, they're saying the person is still living and they believe like the pagans do who didn't believe in death but instead believed death was just a doorway to another plain of existence. So in other words people who believe only the body sleeps in death, believe the person lives on elsewhere. Basically I believe such people are agreeing with the serpent that told Eve she wouldn't die. Eve who was a person died, she is dead.

When Paul said that he would rather die so that he could be with the Lord, he meant immediately. And the fact that when Jesus returns he will bring those saints who have died with Him, from where were those spirits if not heaven. To be born again is to put on immortality, so our consciousness doesn't end at death. Our mind and spirit are immortal, and our body must die and then wait for the resurrection to put on immortality. There is nothing pagan about what the Bible says.

BarneyFife · Jan 4, 2021

CharismaticLady said:
When Paul said that he would rather die so that he could be with the Lord, he meant immediately. And the fact that when Jesus returns he will bring those saints who have died with Him, from where were those spirits if not heaven. To be born again is to put on immortality, so our consciousness doesn't end at death. Our mind and spirit are immortal, and our body must die and then wait for the resurrection to put on immortality. There is nothing pagan about what the Bible says.

The Bible also reports that the serpent said: "Ye shall not surely die."

CharismaticLady · Jan 4, 2021

BarnyFife said:
The Bible also reports that the serpent said: "Ye shall not surely die."

So? In the wilderness Satan told some truth to Jesus, but for Jesus to act on it would be the sin of presumption.

farouk · Jan 4, 2021

CharismaticLady said:
When Paul said that he would rather die so that he could be with the Lord, he meant immediately. And the fact that when Jesus returns he will bring those saints who have died with Him, from where were those spirits if not heaven. To be born again is to put on immortality, so our consciousness doesn't end at death. Our mind and spirit are immortal, and our body must die and then wait for the resurrection to put on immortality. There is nothing pagan about what the Bible says.

To the eternal glory of Christ, Ephesians 1 ends with a glorious affirmation of the Resurrection and its importance to the believer.

farouk · Jan 4, 2021

CharismaticLady said:
Not sure what you are getting at here, but what I believe about what needs to be born again is the mind and spirit (our nature) which dies with Christ on the cross, and is resurrected to immortality to partake of the divine nature of God. The third part of us is the body, which doesn't sin, as it is just a shell, but will die BECAUSE of Adam's sin, and must also put on immortality.

@CharismaticLady 1 Corinthians 15 is a wonderful chapter.

Nancy · Jan 4, 2021

quietthinker said:
Yes Nancy. Interpreting parables is like interpreting the sacrifices in the OT. One can create ones own meaning and turn the sacrifice into something removed from its intent just as one can a parable. Herein is revealed whether one is wise or foolish.

Yeah...and that would go for all scripture, I'd think.

"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
2 Peter 3:16

How Do You Define Death?

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