Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Well the whole substance of Christ and God / man thing is something that will come to you as you go along.Jesus on the Cross
I have a confession to make
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it is more than jsut that but i think the most significant thing was the cross and not the resurrection. it makes me sad but it just makes sense to me
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
its not all about me though, i am not pretending to know better i just have questions & doubts i guess, all i ever hear is Jesus died for me, Jesus on the cross, Thanking Jesus for giving his life so freely as God had ascribed, who says thank God for the resurrection? His spirit would still have come upon us whether he came back to life or not after Calgary.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
There is all kinds of questions like that....and you are not going to have all the answers at the beginning of your journey.
There are a lot of people here that can quote scriptures for you. What is that going to do for you? If that is all you needed you would not be saying what you are saying....right?
As they say, a long journey starts with the first step. So take that journey with Christ and He is powerful enough to reveal the rest to you. Focus on Him, not on yourself or what you understand. Christ is the Way, you are not.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
It's ok. I often wonder what happened to the hundred pounds of spices Nicodemus and Joseph brought to the grave.
Jhn 19:38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
Jhn 19:39 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
Jhn 19:40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
Jhn 19:41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
Jhn 19:42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
So was Jesus laid in the garden wrapped up in linen with 100 pounds of spices?
Who laid him in the sepulchre if they left him in the garden?
Next chapter begins where the last ended:
Jhn 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Jhn 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
and yet Jesus makes his first appearance where?
Jhn 20:14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
Jhn 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
3 days pass from the High Sabbath to the first day of the week.
And all I can suggest is going back to Eden where God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam. And gave him mouth to mouth ressucitation and raised him from the dead.
My mother died 3 times in one night from strokes and the doctors brought her back 3 times. She lived another year and a half and passed away in her sleep.
We don't really know what Nicodemus and Joseph did with his body other that wrap up in linen with a hundred pounds of spices.
Now whether they gave him CPR or God breathed into him the breathe of life..
nevertheless Jesus rose from the dead.
And on that day.. They didn't kill God like they are trying to do today.
They are trying to wipe out all memory of him which would leave us all in utter darkness.
But during these last 4 years there has a been a revival. And during this last week more so than I seen in my 55 years on earth.
Stuart, I don't have the answers, but I sure have a lot of questions too.
One thing is for sure..
without faith...
nothing matters.
Believe God
Keep the Faith
God Bless You
Hugs
Jhn 19:38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
Jhn 19:39 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
Jhn 19:40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
Jhn 19:41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
Jhn 19:42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
So was Jesus laid in the garden wrapped up in linen with 100 pounds of spices?
Who laid him in the sepulchre if they left him in the garden?
Next chapter begins where the last ended:
Jhn 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Jhn 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
and yet Jesus makes his first appearance where?
Jhn 20:14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
Jhn 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
3 days pass from the High Sabbath to the first day of the week.
And all I can suggest is going back to Eden where God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam. And gave him mouth to mouth ressucitation and raised him from the dead.
My mother died 3 times in one night from strokes and the doctors brought her back 3 times. She lived another year and a half and passed away in her sleep.
We don't really know what Nicodemus and Joseph did with his body other that wrap up in linen with a hundred pounds of spices.
Now whether they gave him CPR or God breathed into him the breathe of life..
nevertheless Jesus rose from the dead.
And on that day.. They didn't kill God like they are trying to do today.
They are trying to wipe out all memory of him which would leave us all in utter darkness.
But during these last 4 years there has a been a revival. And during this last week more so than I seen in my 55 years on earth.
Stuart, I don't have the answers, but I sure have a lot of questions too.
One thing is for sure..
without faith...
nothing matters.
Believe God
Keep the Faith
God Bless You
Hugs
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Questions are gooood!
Means you are paying attention.
Paul Christensen
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The fact that Jesus rose from the dead is the believers' assurance that one day they will rise from the dead also. If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, that assurance is lost and there will be no resurrection of the dead. Jesus is not at the right hand of the Father, and the Holy Spirit never came to the church. This means that Christianity is just another dead religion with no better hope than those of pagan religions. That also means that those who profess Christianity serving a living Saviour, and therefore have nothing more than just "getting religion". No resurrection means that Jesus can be accused of being a liar when He clearly said, "Destroy this temple (meaning His body) and I will raise it up in three days". Also the promise, "In my house are many mansions, and I will go and prepare a place for you" is meaningless because without His resurrection He hasn't gone anywhere except the grave where He still remains.
We need the work of the Holy Spirit in order to be born again, but in order for the Holy Spirit to come to the church, Jesus needed to be resurrected and ascended to the right hand of the Father. Unless that happened, the Holy Spirit never came and therefore no one was born again.
So, without the resurrection of Christ, as the Bible describes it, a professing Christian's faith is worthless and his or her hope is in this life only.
So, I guess it is a matter whether you believe the Gospels and Paul's letters or not.
@Stuart God is more than death, if he was only death he would be Satan.
Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
You might enjoy a making alive story (dead for 45 minutes "brain death" after 5): https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...n-nation-mom-prays-son-back-to-life/22883985/
Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
You might enjoy a making alive story (dead for 45 minutes "brain death" after 5): https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...n-nation-mom-prays-son-back-to-life/22883985/
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Then you have Lazarus who laid in the grave for 4 days and Martha and Mary said by now he stinketh.
I don't think they wrapped him up with 100 pounds of spices.. but he did have the linen cloths.
Embalming was what they did in Egypt. And When Josephs father Jacob passed away they embalmed him and laid him in the cave with Abraham.
believe...
Gen 50:1 And Joseph fell upon his father's face, and wept upon him, and kissed him.
Gen 50:2 And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father: and the physicians embalmed Israel.
Gen 50:3 And forty days were fulfilled for him; for so are fulfilled the days of those which are embalmed: and the Egyptians mourned for him threescore and ten days.
Forty days.. Lazarus was 4 days... And the Egyptians mourned for 70..
Time works funny in the bible..
just saying..
Hugs
Paul Christensen
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There is a good book written by an author who initially set out to disprove the resurrection of Christ, but when he reviewed the evidence, he changed his direction and wrote the book to prove it without a doubt. His book, which can be downloaded is: "Who Moved The Stone?" by Frank Morison.
Why is it difficult to believe in a resurrection if you believe in a Creator?
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I believe God raised Jesus from the dead. That is our hope as well. And the resurrection of Jesus is our reassurance that "God keeps his Word" .
Literally..
I also believe there is a physical resurrection and a spiritual one.
The physical is that which upon dying we return to God.
The spiritual is that which is recieved upon believing in God himself.
And this IS eternal life.... to know thee... the one true God... and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent.
It's in the "knowing" ...that eternal life is found.
If you don't know God.. your just a dead tree walking.. wandering stars..
That's why Paul explained to the Ephesians who the "UNKNOWN" God is. That way they had no excuse and couldn't claim ignorance of sin.
There comes a time when everyone needs to acknowledge good from evil, right from wrong.
That's the law in our hearts.
Fundamental truth.
But 100 pounds of spices..
That needs a shovel..
and popcorn
Hugs
Literally..
I also believe there is a physical resurrection and a spiritual one.
The physical is that which upon dying we return to God.
The spiritual is that which is recieved upon believing in God himself.
And this IS eternal life.... to know thee... the one true God... and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent.
It's in the "knowing" ...that eternal life is found.
If you don't know God.. your just a dead tree walking.. wandering stars..
That's why Paul explained to the Ephesians who the "UNKNOWN" God is. That way they had no excuse and couldn't claim ignorance of sin.
There comes a time when everyone needs to acknowledge good from evil, right from wrong.
That's the law in our hearts.
Fundamental truth.
But 100 pounds of spices..
That needs a shovel..
and popcorn
Hugs
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
Hello my friend,
If you don't believe in the Resurrection, then I'd stop taking communion immediately.
1 Corinthians 11:29-30 NLT - "For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God's judgment upon yourself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and sick and some have even died."
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Paul writes to those who doubt the resurrection saying if Christ is not risen we are of all men most miserable.
The resurrection is God's stamp of approval of Jesus. It is the resurrection that validates Jesus' sacrifice.
Had Jesus not come forth from the grave, the testimony of the disciples is a lie as would be the rest of scripture and whatever one then believes becomes no more than an exercise in mental gymnastics and ultimately as valueless as any pagan view.
The resurrection is God's stamp of approval of Jesus. It is the resurrection that validates Jesus' sacrifice.
Had Jesus not come forth from the grave, the testimony of the disciples is a lie as would be the rest of scripture and whatever one then believes becomes no more than an exercise in mental gymnastics and ultimately as valueless as any pagan view.
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liafailrock
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There's nothing wrong with questioning the faith as it makes one's position to both believe and defend it all the stronger. However, whatever conclusion you come up with, then stay with it. If he did not raise, then understand he would not be the Son of God nor a great man. The Son of God and great man would not lie about a thing like the resurrection and claims about himself, so he would have to be a nut. How do we know that? It's in the 10 commandments not to lie (the scriptures Jesus claimed to believe in). In addition, the writers of the bible, specifically , the new testament writers (and Jesus himself confessed it) that the whole bible spoke of him. That's the account given in the book of Luke after his resurrection. So, the bible can then embrace chaos theory and also be deemed inappropriate if there's no resurrection. And along that line, we may then even question the existence of God, because if the Son of God (whom the bible attributes the creation of the universe) cannot raise, it really puts a serious doubt on God himself. It really snowballs.
But on the opposite side, we have Einstein who stated the the most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it's comprehensible. For there to be a "law" of nature there has to be a lawgiver. To to put it another way, two unthinking non-conscious inanimate objects can do a math equation (i.e. act in accordance with the equation) . How is that? By the Laws of physics. But to be comprehensible implies a thinking,conscious being, even if the universe is a God unto itself (and at this point I won't ask how one defines God).Then let's get back to Christ. The riddle has to be then solved how a dead man pulled this off to look like he arose 2000 years later (someone stealing the body or perpetuating a hoax is out of the logical question). Maybe the best shot one has is to question history in that it never happened past explaining how every society in the world seems to base something off this man. So these are some basic questions and investigations I left you with. Godspeed in all you do in your search.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Hi Stuart:
That is a tough place to be in. The bible focuses on the Resurrections of Jesus from the dead. It is placing our trust in HIs death and Resurrection from the dead that saves us! I will not sugar coat that.
If you really want to believe, He will grant you the faith to believe. I cannot stress this enough, this is the question that must be answered by everyone that determines their eternal destiny.
If you wish, I can list many verses that show that Jesus came to die and to conquer death in His body and truly physically rose from the dead. After that, it would be up to you and god.
Hello @Stuart,
As you will already know, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17). So read the word of God concerning the resurrection in such chapters as 1 Corinthians 15, and ask God to give you the faith to believe what you read.
You have told us that you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is God's only begotten Son. You also believe that He took upon Himself the penalty of your sin when He died in your place upon Calvary's cross. That in itself is wonderful, and a cause for rejoicing. For you have obviously seen and acknowledged your own need of a Saviour, and placed your trust in Him as your Saviour and Lord.
Yet if Christ has not risen from the grave, then He is still dead, have you thought of that? Where does that place you? Without a living Saviour you have no hope of eternal life!!! You also have no Intercessor between you and your heavenly Father: for no man can come to the Father except through Him.
The resurrection was the sign that the sacrifice of His Son on our behalf had been accepted by God. Without that His sacrifice would have been made in vain.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Stuart,
If I were in your shoes, these responses would not be very helpful because one can't simply conquer doubts by TRYING to believe. So let me ask you 2 questions that might lead to a solution:
(1) Would it be helpful to you to lay out in detail the historical evidence for Jesus' resurrection? I'd wager no one has ever done that for you. Mere assertion of the Gospel accounts is unhelpful.
(2) Have you ever read about group Near-Death Experiences and NDEs with powerful physical verifications that are evidentially comparable to New Testament resurrection accounts? These would be very helpful to me, if I shared your skepticism. I can provide both types of evidence if you so desire.
If I were in your shoes, these responses would not be very helpful because one can't simply conquer doubts by TRYING to believe. So let me ask you 2 questions that might lead to a solution:
(1) Would it be helpful to you to lay out in detail the historical evidence for Jesus' resurrection? I'd wager no one has ever done that for you. Mere assertion of the Gospel accounts is unhelpful.
(2) Have you ever read about group Near-Death Experiences and NDEs with powerful physical verifications that are evidentially comparable to New Testament resurrection accounts? These would be very helpful to me, if I shared your skepticism. I can provide both types of evidence if you so desire.
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