Mystery, Babylon The Great

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Martin W.

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If you take time to read all the prophets, you'll see the whole purpose of having brought back Israel to her land (in '48) is to save Jerusalem, not destroy her. You have to read it. Jerusalem is God's bride. Probably the WORST interpretation of Mystery Babylon that exists is that she's Jerusalem. It's so contrary to end-day events, prophecies, purposes, logic, etc. Can you imagine GOd bringing back Israel after 2000 years of punishment just so He can get destroy her with fire? How sadistic is that?!!?
Read the bible, read about Armaggedon, read about where Jesus will return to. Read Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Zacharia, etc. Read read read... Forget "interpretations". Read!

I agree
 

shilohsfoal

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Looks like you believe the same thing she does..


Rev 18;7
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

I got news for you.New Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven is the city of God.
Not that whore of a city that calls herself Jerusalem.
 

Martin W.

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Looks like you believe the same thing she does..


Rev 18;7
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

I got news for you.New Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven is the city of God.
Not that whore of a city that calls herself Jerusalem.


Unfortunately (for you) the city you call a "whore" is the same city God chooses for his temples.
 

veteran

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Per God's Word, He brought destruction upon Jerusalem when His people rebelled against Him...

II Ki 21:12-15
12 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.
13 And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet of the house of Ahab: and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down.
14 And I will forsake the remnant of Mine inheritance, and deliver them into the hand of their enemies; and they shall become a prey and a spoil to all their enemies;
15 Because they have done that which was evil in My sight, and have provoked Me to anger, since the day their fathers came forth out of Egypt, even unto this day.
(KJV)


II Ki 23:26-27
26 Notwithstanding the LORD turned not from the fierceness of His great wrath, wherewith His anger was kindled against Judah, because of all the provocations that Manasseh had provoked Him withal.
27 And the LORD said, I will remove Judah also out of My sight, as I have removed Israel, and will cast off this city Jerusalem which I have chosen, and the house of which I said, My name shall be there.
(KJV)


II Ki 25:1-10
1 And it came to pass in the ninth year of his reign, in the tenth month, in the tenth day of the month, that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came, he, and all his host, against Jerusalem, and pitched against it; and they built forts against it round about.
2 And the city was besieged unto the eleventh year of king Zedekiah.
3 And on the ninth day of the fourth month the famine prevailed in the city, and there was no bread for the people of the land.
4 And the city was broken up, and all the men of war fled by night by the way of the gate between two walls, which is by the king's garden: (now the Chaldees were against the city round about:) and the king went the way toward the plain.
5 And the army of the Chaldees pursued after the king, and overtook him in the plains of Jericho: and all his army were scattered from him.
6 So they took the king, and brought him up to the king of Babylon to Riblah; and they gave judgment upon him.
7 And they slew the sons of Zedekiah before his eyes, and put out the eyes of Zedekiah, and bound him with fetters of brass, and carried him to Babylon.
8 And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month, which is the nineteenth year of king Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, a servant of the king of Babylon, unto Jerusalem:
9 And he burnt the house of the LORD, and the king's house, and all the houses of Jerusalem, and every great man's house burnt he with fire.
10 And all the army of the Chaldees, that were with the captain of the guard, brake down the walls of Jerusalem round about.
(KJV)


Jerusalem has been sieged something like 27 times in its history. It will be sieged by God's enemies one more time in the days of Christ's return. So let us not deceive ourselves of how God has treated Jerusalem in the past because of how His own rebelled against Him as written in The Bible. Nor should we allow ourselves to be deceived about Christ's enemies taking Jerusalem for the last days, and their doing abominations there against The LORD.

The majority of the house of Judah in the nation state of Israel today STILL refuse God's Promised Saviour Jesus Christ. Instead of turning to Christ Jesus The Messiah, they want to start up the Old Covenant worship again with animal sacrifices. That was one of the reasons the Jews wanted to return to Jerusalem, because since the temple was destroyed by the Romans in 69 A.D., they haven't been able to do proper worship (Old Covenant worship per their view).


 

veteran

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Mystery Babylon is the United States of America! Check this out :

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

It is so simple!


No, The United States of America is not "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT..." of Revelation 17.

But America does have deceived people and leaders that are busy working to setup Mystery Babylon. That's about support for the setting up of a one-world government over all nations with Jerusalem as its head city.

The 'woman' upon which is written that title of "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" is a certain city, as we are told in the last verse of that chapter of Rev.17.

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
(KJV)



Read your Bible for yourself.

 

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Choir Loft
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AGAIN ?

That whole thing of oral law being placed above Torah --- the abominations and harlotry to idols NEVER LEFT.

Babylonian talmud began the overspreading of abominations - once it hit Israel, it went everywhere else, and mutated / picked up garbage from other sources as it went.


Take a look at Eze. where He says "son of man, set your face against Jerusalem ..."

"see the 70 elders of Israel ... " (those who think they are hidden in what they TRULY practice --- the SANHEDRIN being reformed is a big thing to look at here)

"see those weeping for Tammuz"

and finally ...

"see those who cry out for all the idols spread through My city ...." (paraphrased, these are the ones who realize the worship is not what Judaism used to be)


those chapters in early Eze. still have a final fulfillment ....






"A work I recommend to look at that mystery school history was written by a member of the Philosophical Research Society, a society that statesman Benjamin Franklin started. The work is called 'The Secret Teachings Of All Ages' by Manly P. Hall. It is a work that even initiates today often refer to."


Brother, if you are aware of these things or were aware of them before / as you began to heed His call - that is one thing.

Those seeking to follow Him are better off sticking with the Word which is sharper than any 2 edged sword.

Things of confusion ultimately just slows your spiritual growth.

and may very well be a stumbling block to a young one ....





People have GOT to stop assuming that

1- a PHYSICAL EVENT in the past automatically means prophecy refers to a PHYSICAL FULFILLMENT

2- turn that first sentence inside out



There were about one percent of people alive back then as there are now --- they way Yah spoke forth His word to us in THESE DAYS was to allow these physical events to flourish and grow in a spiritual application

Why did the Jews not recognize Yeshua ? because He wasnt their warrior-king, throwing down Rome's rule by physical force


He said, "greater things that these, even you will do"

but we do not go and draw a physical sword against all those who give an outward appearance of evil .... "our battle is not against the flesh"

I suggested a google of 'rebuilding Babylon' and a gibberish answer is the reply.
Did anyone perform that simple task?

This IS being accomplished. Please pick up on this and place some remark other than to deny it.
My post isn't about Jews or some obscure book in the dusty stacks of a remote library.

Get you head out of the dust and ashes of the past and have a look at what is REALLY going on.
What does this REAL EVENT mean? No useful discussion can continue without addressing reality.

Please google it and real it before you denounce the story.
 

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Choir Loft
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Mystery Babylon is the United States of America! Check this out :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esJogTzgqgg&feature=related

It is so simple!

You will find few people to support this theory.

It matters not whether its true or false.
Most Americans believe the flag of the USA to be some sort of sacred object instead of the banner for global domination it has become.

American, and dare I include Christian, reaction to revelations about what our general government is up to may be generally classified as denial.

No assertions or conclusions about the wickedness of America are taken seriously by anyone. It doesn't matter if they are religious or atheist.
Therein lies the measure of the depth of our depravity and the heaviness of God's judgment against us.

Oh yes, we ARE suffering the increasing pressure of divine judgment.

Few admit it's possible and fewer still admit that it is upon us at this moment despite signs everywhere.
We are too big to fail (pride goes before a fall), and we are basically a good people (there are none righteous, not even one).

See Ezekiel 14.

Now is the time for God's people to repent and to seek His face, for His desire is reconciliation and salvation for us.
Though the nation is judged, we may be saved.
 

veteran

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You will find few people to support this theory.

It matters not whether its true or false.
Most Americans believe the flag of the USA to be some sort of sacred object instead of the banner for global domination it has become.

American, and dare I include Christian, reaction to revelations about what our general government is up to may be generally classified as denial.

No assertions or conclusions about the wickedness of America are taken seriously by anyone. It doesn't matter if they are religious or atheist.
Therein lies the measure of the depth of our depravity and the heaviness of God's judgment against us.

Oh yes, we ARE suffering the increasing pressure of divine judgment.

Few admit it's possible and fewer still admit that it is upon us at this moment despite signs everywhere.
We are too big to fail (pride goes before a fall), and we are basically a good people (there are none righteous, not even one).

See Ezekiel 14.

Now is the time for God's people to repent and to seek His face, for His desire is reconciliation and salvation for us.
Though the nation is judged, we may be saved.


Christ's enemies support that theory that America is the endtime Babylon. And that's most likely where some here that claim to be in Christ who also support it are getting that idea from. Per Rev.13, God is giving the dragon power to overcome Christ's saints and over all nations in the last days. But it still does not mean Christ's saints living among those nations are of metaphorical Babylon. That's something those whom HeroOfGod listens to is not revealing, as they attempt to hide what the endtime Babylon harlot of Rev.17 actually represents, i.e., fallen Jerusalem into idol worship when the false messiah shows up there in our near future.
 

RND

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Simple. Because the DAUGHTER does whatever the MOTHER wishes. I don’t doubt the documented involvement of the RCC in the killing of the Jews for a second. It’s plain to see. The reason for the killing was to create worldwide sympathy for the Jewish religion and prepare the people for the land. (WW1 was to prepare the land for the people).

You didn’t see? Ok lets go through it again:::::>>
1) The only references to great <3173> city <4172> in the Greek are in the Revelation. The first reference definitely refers to Jerusalem "where their Lord was crucified."
Revelation 11:8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great <3173> city <4172> which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

Check out the others.

Revelation 16:19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered great Babylon, to make her drain the cup of the fury of his wrath.

Revelation 17:18 And the woman that you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth."

Revelation 18:10 they will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, "Alas! alas! thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon! In one hour has thy judgment come." 16 "Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, bedecked with gold, with jewels, and with pearls! 18 and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning, "What city was like the great city?" 19 And they threw dust on their heads, as they wept and mourned, crying out, "Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth! In one hour she has been laid waste. 21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So shall Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and shall be found no more;

2) Jerusalem is guilty of all of the blood of the righteous, saints, and prophets...

Matthew 23:34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 that upon you may come ALL the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechari'ah the son of Barachi'ah [A to Z], whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all this will come upon this generation. 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38 Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'" (see also Luke 11:49-51)

while it is Babylon who is found drunk with the blood of the saints, prophets, and all slain upon the earth.

Revelation 17:5 and on her forehead was written a name of mystery: "Babylon the great, mother of harlots and of earth's abominations." 6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her I marveled greatly.

Revelation 18:21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So shall Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and shall be found no more... 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of ALL who have been slain on earth."

Revelation 19:2 for his judgments are true and just; he has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication, and he has avenged on her the blood of his servants."

3) Because of her guilt, Jesus warns Jerusalem of her house being left desolate, and tells His disciples of it's destruction.

Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38 Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate. Matthew 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. 2 But he answered them, "You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down."

The disciples first question to Him... WHEN will this [destruction of the temple] occur?

Matthew 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?"

Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. 21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are in the midst of the city depart, and let not those who are in the country enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 "Woe to those who are with child and to those who nurse babes in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land, and wrath to this people, 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

I am continually astonished when people view Luke 21:20-24 as a past occurrence. Considering the fact that the preceeding verses as well as the following verses are nearly identical to the accounts in Matthew and Mark, and considering the fact that Dan 11:45 has the Antichrist camped out "between the seas and the beautiful Holy Mountain" around the time of the beginning of the great trib (see 12:1), and considering Rev 11:2 says the outer court of the temple is given to the nations (Gr. ethnos) who"will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months," I think it is entirely probable that Jerusalem's desolation is yet future, and she "will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles (Gr. ethnos) until the times of the Gentiles (Gr. ethnos) be fulfilled."

Could this desolation Jesus warns of be a part of the destruction of Mystery Babylon the Great?... initiated by the abomination of desolation?

4) The Lord, through the prophet Jeremiah, warns "the daughter of Zion", pictured here as a harlot, and describes her desolation.

Jere 4:27 For thus says the Lord, "The whole land shall be a desolation, Yet I will not execute a complete destruction. 28 "For this the earth shall mourn, And the heavens above be dark, Because I have spoken, I have purposed, And I will not change My mind, nor will I turn from it." 29 At the sound of the horseman and bowman every city flees; They go into the thickets and climb among the rocks; Every city is forsaken, And no man dwells in them. 30 And you, O desolate one, what will you do? Although you dress in scarlet, Although you decorate [yourself with] ornaments of gold, Although you enlarge your eyes with paint, In vain you make yourself beautiful; [Your] lovers despise you; They seek your life. 31 For I heard a cry as of a woman in labor, The anguish as of one giving birth to her first child, The cry of the daughter of Zion gasping for breath, Stretching out her hands, [saying,] "Ah, woe is me, for I faint before murderers."

Compare this account to the description of Mystery Babylon in the Revelation.

Reve 16:19 And the great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath.. 17:4 And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality... 16 And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.

Could this merely be a coincidence?

5) Both Jerusalem and Babylon are destroyed by forces coming from the north.

Jer 1:14 Then the Lord said to me, " Out of the north the evil will break forth on all the inhabitants of the land. 15 "For, behold, I am calling all the families of the kingdoms of the north ," declares the Lord; "and they will come, and they will set each one his throne at the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, and against all its walls round about, and against all the cities of Judah... 7:34 "Then I will make to cease from the cities of Judah and from the streets of Jerusalem the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride; for the land will become a ruin... 26:2 ...'Stand in the court of the Lord's house, and speak to all the cities of Judah, who have come to worship [in] the Lord's house... 9 ...'This house will be like Shiloh , and this city will be desolate, without inhabitant'

Jer 50:1 The word which the Lord spoke concerning Babylon, the land of the Chaldeans, through Jeremiah the prophet...3 "For a nation has come up against her out of the north ; it will make her land an object of horror, and there will be no inhabitant in it.

6) Jerusalem and Babylon both drink from the cup of the Lord's anger.

Isai 51:17 Rouse yourself! Rouse yourself! Arise, O Jerusalem, You who have drunk from the Lord's hand the cup of His anger; The chalice of reeling you have drained to the dregs.

Reve 16:19 And the great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath.

7) One angel with a bowl said, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great HARLOT..." (Rev 17:1-19:4.) Immediately after that (Rev 19:5...) the BRIDE is ready! Then in Rev. 21:9..., another angel who had a bowl says "Come, I will show you the BRIDE, the wife of the Lamb..." Is it merely a coincidence that the bride has made herself ready only after (and immediately after) the harlot is judged?

8) Jerusalem is referred to as both a harlot and the Lord's bride.

Isaiah 1:1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem... 21. How the faithful city has become a harlot, she that was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers. Ezekiel 16:2 "Son of man, make known to Jerusalem her abominations..." (read whole chapter)

Jeremiah 2:2 "Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, Thus says the LORD, I remember the devotion of your youth, your love as a bride, how you followed me in the wilderness, in a land not sown... 20. "For long ago you broke your yoke and burst your bonds; and you said, 'I will not serve.' Yea, upon every high hill and under every green tree you bowed down as a harlot. (see Jer.3.)

Revelation 21:9..."Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10 And in the Spirit he carried me away to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem...

9) Just before the 7th trumpet, the two witnesses/prophets are slain in Jerusalem (see Rev. 11:8 above.) Just after the 7th trumpet is sounded, an angel declares, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great..." (Rev. 14:8.) Is it just a coincidence, or are the two events (prophets being slain and Babylon being judged) related, possibly being a fulfillment of Matt. 23:34-35?

Matthew 23:34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 that upon you may come ALL the righteous blood shed on earth...

10) It seems that Jerusalem and New Jerusalem have a lot in common, or perhaps they are one and the same.

Isai 52:1 Awake, awake, Clothe yourself in your strength, O Zion; Clothe yourself in your beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city. For the uncircumcised and the unclean Will no more come into you... 7 How lovely on the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news... 60:3 "And nations will come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising... 11 "And your gates will be open continually; They will not be closed day or night, So that [men] may bring to you the wealth of the nations, With their kings led in procession.

Nahu 1:15 Behold, on the mountains the feet of him who brings good news, Who announces peace! Celebrate your feasts, O Judah; Pay your vows. For never again will the wicked one pass through you; He is cut off completely.

Reve 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God (Rev 13:6) is among men, and He shall dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be among them... 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God... 24 And the nations shall walk by its light, and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory into it. 25 And in the daytime (for there shall be no night there) its gates shall never be closed; 26 and they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 27 and nothing unclean and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

It almost seems as if Jerusalem herself is "born-again"!

11) Why have a "New Jerusalem" if the old one is still around?

12) What is the big mystery in "Mystery Babylon" if it really is the same as historical Babylon?

13) Jerusalem is surrounded by seven hills

ten-horns.gif




The president of Isreal is simply the political Zionist leader. Do US presidents meet with them. Of course. But what we really want to look out for is meetings with Talmudic Rabbis

What laws HAVN’T they changed. All bad fruit comes from the first peoples of the Bible, the Isrealites. They have provided ALL replacements for God on Earth INCLUDING the pagan RC hierarchy and the pope. RC doctrine can be traced directly to Talmudic Judaism.

Daniel plainly tells us that the "little horn" comes out of the Roman empire. Israel and Jerusalem never came out of Rome.

The little horn that came up last represents the nation state of Israel who as the scripture tells ,defeated Syria,Jordan and Egypt which are three of the horns in the promised land.
The "little horn: comes out of Rome so it can't be Israel.
 

veteran

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It's not about Rome. It's about Jerusalem with Christ's enemies in control her. Rome didn't kill any of God's OT prophets, for they were killed long before the Roman Church ever began...


Rev 18:24
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
(KJV)


Matt 23:29-31
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
(KJV)


Acts 7:51-53
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
(KJV)


1Thes 2:14-15
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
(KJV)


Matt 23:29-35
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
(KJV)


Luke 13:34
34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
(KJV)


 

RND

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Rome has more blood on her hands than anyone in Jerusalem ever imagined. Jerusalem doesn't control the world, the Papacy does. Daniel 7 makes it clear that the antichrist comes out of the fourth kingdom.....the fourth kingdom was the Roman Empire. All the Protestant Reformers believed this and were willing to die for their beliefs. The notion that it is Jerusalem is a fantasy found only in fiction books and movies.
 

242006

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Rome has more blood on her hands than anyone in Jerusalem ever imagined. Jerusalem doesn't control the world, the Papacy does. Daniel 7 makes it clear that the antichrist comes out of the fourth kingdom.....the fourth kingdom was the Roman Empire. All the Protestant Reformers believed this and were willing to die for their beliefs. The notion that it is Jerusalem is a fantasy found only in fiction books and movies.

All the Protestant Reformers also thought that the resurrection day of Christ was 'Easter'. Just because some died in rebellion against the RCC does not mean that they were correct in asserting that Rome, headquarters of the RCC, is the city spoken of in Rev. 17. Certainly, those reformers had a prejudiced viewpoint since they were regularly persecuted by the RCC.

Your strawman argument carries no validity or credibility in determining which city is spoken of in Rev. 17. Veteran is correct -- it is Jerusalem.
 

whirlwind

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Babylon is a spiritual world-wide city. Not Jerusalem. Not Rome. Not America but the world....she is everywhere. And, until He calls us and we answer...we are residents.

Jeremiah 51:6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; He will render unto her a recompence.

Revelation 18:2-4 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.​


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veteran

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True, our Lord Jesus did point to endtime Babylon as a false spiritual concept over the whole earth too. But at the end of Rev.17 He also proclaimed it being headed at a certain city on earth...

Rev 17:15-18
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
(KJV)


Back in Rev.11:8, we are shown what "great city" our Lord was pointing to...

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(KJV)


Jerusalem is where our Lord Jesus was crucified, even though technically His crucifixion was just outside its gates.
 

whirlwind

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True, our Lord Jesus did point to endtime Babylon as a false spiritual concept over the whole earth too. But at the end of Rev.17 He also proclaimed it being headed at a certain city on earth...

Rev 17:15-18
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
(KJV)


Back in Rev.11:8, we are shown what "great city" our Lord was pointing to...

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(KJV)


Jerusalem is where our Lord Jesus was crucified, even though technically His crucifixion was just outside its gates.




Being "just outside the gates" is important. There are only two spiritual cities....His holy city Jerusalem and the great city Babylon/the world. He was crucified just outside Jerusalem...in the world. That is the reason for the rather odd wording in [Revelation 11:8].....

Revelation 11:3-11 I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. (8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.​


There are many "two witnesses" for we are of the two groups, the olive trees and candlesticks and they/we have prophesied/taught for a long time. However, at the end of 3-1/2 days (which is 3,500 years in the Lord's reckoning) His spirit enters us...the last days begin/have begun! (I believe this time was in 2009...3,500 years from the 1491 BC Exodus) We now "stand upon our feet" as He teaches us and we prophesy/teach others.

The "two prophets" are not the two witnesses. They are rather represented by Elijah and Moses...the law and the prophets. In other words the two prophets are the contents of the Bible. The truth found therein torments those that believe the deception therefore they continue to dwell "upon the earth," in the world/Babylon while those filled with His Spirit dwell in heaven (while walking on the earth.)

The killing, I see, as spiritual. Have you been "slain" on various forums for teaching truth? If you were banned then your "dead body" lays in their street and you won't be put in a grave. You can't be for you are not only spiritually alive but they can't bury your body of words. Have you been dismissed from churches, groups, etc. for teaching truth? If yes then they killed you and they're happy about it.

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.


He calls His children," My people," out of her...out of Babylon. " Many are called and few are chosen." So in understanding where He was crucified, He tells us it was "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt." That means wickedness (Sodom) and worldly, carnal lusts (Egypt)....the world and the world is just outside the gates of the spiritual Holy City.


Isaiah 53:5-6 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.​


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veteran

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Although I do see a prophetic connection of the two candlesticks as two symbolic Churches, I don't see the two who's bodies will lay dead in the street of Jerusalem as a metaphor. I believe all nations will see their dead bodies left in the street using today's media technology.
 

whirlwind

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Although I do see a prophetic connection of the two candlesticks as two symbolic Churches, I don't see the two who's bodies will lay dead in the street of Jerusalem as a metaphor. I believe all nations will see their dead bodies left in the street using today's media technology.


I am given to understand that the "two candlesticks/churches" are Smyrna and Philadelphia. As they represent many people so do the two olive trees for they are the wild and natural olive...Gentile and Israel in the house of the Lord.

Psalm 52:8 But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.

Jeremiah 11:16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult He hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.​

When I first understood that the two witnesses meant two groups was when I saw that there were two olive trees and two candlesticks....so already four were mentioned. It couldn't literally be two entities. Then I saw the verses about churches being candlesticks, etc.


As for the dead bodies....they are the dead bodies of our old man....already laying in the streets of the world Veteran. We have died to self for we are His....


Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.​



The world sees us, sees that Christ dwells in us, walks in us, sees that we are His and they can't "suffer" us to be put in graves. Why? Because we live, both physically and spiritually. Our old man is crucified but we live.


Revelation 11:8-9 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.


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bud02

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True, our Lord Jesus did point to endtime Babylon as a false spiritual concept over the whole earth too. But at the end of Rev.17 He also proclaimed it being headed at a certain city on earth...

Rev 17:15-18
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
(KJV)


Back in Rev.11:8, we are shown what "great city" our Lord was pointing to...

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(KJV)


Jerusalem is where our Lord Jesus was crucified, even though technically His crucifixion was just outside its gates.

And who controlled Jerusalem at the time of Christ?