How Do You Observe Your Sabbath

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RND

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What is your definition of church?
Paul since you have decided not to answer any of my questions I won't be answering any of yours. If you want a definition of what a church is read your Bible. I have learned from you quickly that you like to engage in gamesmanship in order to hide from the obvious truth that scripture contains. Sad.
 

Selene

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yet according to the gospels, Jesus was critisized on a number of occasions because he did certain things on the sabbath which the religious leaders objected to. On the occasion of healing a crippled man on the sabbath they accused him of breaking the sabbath laws because healing was considered work. Another time he and his disciples plucked heads of grain and ate them on a sabbath and again Jesus was accused of doing work on the sabbath.

So Jesus view of the sabbath was obviously very different to the view of the jews. Jesus was not bound by their rules about the sabbath because he knew exactly what the purpose of the sabbath was....and it had nothing to do with rules and regulations.

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The Sabbath was holy to God. So, the commandment to keep holy the Sabbath Day means that the good things we do is considered holy. To help a neighbor in need, for example, is keeping holy the Sabbath Day. To give to the poor is keeping holy the Sabbath Day. Therefore, when Jesus goes around healing the sick during the Sabbath, He was following God's command to keep holy the Sabbath Day (Exodus 20:8). With compassion, Christ declares the sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing. The sabbath is the day of the Lord of mercies and a day to honor God.

In Christ,
Selene
 

brionne

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The Sabbath was holy to God. So, the commandment to keep holy the Sabbath Day means that the good things we do is considered holy. To help a neighbor in need, for example, is keeping holy the Sabbath Day. To give to the poor is keeping holy the Sabbath Day. Therefore, when Jesus goes around healing the sick during the Sabbath, He was following God's command to keep holy the Sabbath Day (Exodus 20:8). With compassion, Christ declares the sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing. The sabbath is the day of the Lord of mercies and a day to honor God.

In Christ,
Selene

so that begs the question, should holy acts only be performed only one day a week OR should we make every day as a day in which to do good?
 

Eccl.12:13

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Let's look a future time, here on earth, when not only God's sabbath will be observed but ALL of His rules and laws will be observed by ALL nations.

The following verses are about the period of time when Jesus will rule this earth for 1000yrs. Notice what ALL nations WILL keep. (Or suffer if they do NOT!)



ISAIAH 66:
[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[18] For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.


So God is rendering His fury upon ALL of the nations of the world. Let's continue....


[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Now let me ask the forum a few questions;

Do you think the "sabbath" spoken of above will be on the 7th day of the week or will God now say, "Go ahead and serve me on whatever day you like."?

Do you think it will be ok for those here during Christ 1000yr rule to buy, sell, and conduct business on God's sabbath day?

Do you think it will be ok to bake, cook or boil foods on God's sabbath day during His 1000yr rule?

Along with God's sabbath day, those remaining here on earth will also keep ALL of God's high days! Let's read it.....

Zech.14
[1] Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
[2] For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.


Again we have the same period of time spoken of in Isa. Jesus is coming bact to this earth to punish and then rule ALL nations. Now let's read what ALL nations will do.


[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

So even in Jesus kingdom here on earth ALL nations will keep the feast of Tabernacles.

Now do you think we will NOT keep ALL of God's other high days? Of course we will? And we will keep them just the way God told Moses to tell the nation of Israel to keep them. The same goes with God's sabbath.

Now let's read what will happen if some nations choose NOT to keep this high day....


[17] And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
[18] And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[19] This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


So you really Don't have a choice here; keep the high day, on the day God said, or have no rain for your crops!


Now do you think it will be any different for God's sabbath?

Of course not!


God's sabbath, high days, laws, statues and commandments are forever.......

Even during Christ's 1000 year rule here on earth.



One more question.....


If the sabbath was to be kept up until Christ died AND it WILL be kept during His 1000yr rule here on earth.....why would He suspend keeping it for now?

Remember the man that was stoned for gathering sticks on God's sabbath?

Will God deny that man entry into His kingdom, but allow others entry that broke the same law?

Is that a fair God?



.


.

 

RND

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so that begs the question, should holy acts only be performed only one day a week OR should we make every day as a day in which to do good?
Everyday. But that begs the question, should we ignore God's commandment because we good on other days of the week?
 

brionne

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Everyday. But that begs the question, should we ignore God's commandment because we good on other days of the week?

should we ignore the fact that God removed the mosaic law, and all its requirements, in favor of the one requirement of exercising 'faith' in his Son?


If God says that he does not require us to practice 'works of law' (that is works of the mosaic law), why are some christians contradicting him? And keep in mind that Abraham did not observe the sabbath and God did not require it of him....we are told to have the faith of Abraham...his faith did not include keeping a set of regulations or commandments.
 

Selene

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so that begs the question, should holy acts only be performed only one day a week OR should we make every day as a day in which to do good?

Holy acts should be preformed every day; however, the Pharisees misinterpreted the Sabbath Day, which is the day of rest. When God said to rest on this day, the Pharisees thought that absolutely no work sould be done, including holy acts. The Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath because he cured people during the Sabbath. It is considered a sin if one works on the Sabbath, but it is not a sin to do a holy act or good deed during the Sabbath.

In Christ,
Selene
 

RND

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should we ignore the fact that God removed the mosaic law, and all its requirements, in favor of the one requirement of exercising 'faith' in his Son?
Were the Ten Commandments "Mosaic"? Didn't God write them, with His finger, twice?


If God says that he does not require us to practice 'works of law' (that is works of the mosaic law), why are some christians contradicting him?
Ummm, there's a difference between works of the law and obeying the Ten Commandments. There are no works prescribed in the Ten Commandments.

And keep in mind that Abraham did not observe the sabbath and God did not require it of him...
How do you know that. Abraham kept all of God's Torah.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

we are told to have the faith of Abraham..
The we should be prepared to do as Abraham did which is to keep God's charge, God's commandments, God's statutes, and God's laws.
 

brionne

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Were the Ten Commandments "Mosaic"? Didn't God write them, with His finger, twice?
Ummm, there's a difference between works of the law and obeying the Ten Commandments. There are no works prescribed in the Ten Commandments.

not according to the Apostle Paul who quoted one of the ten commandments when he was explaining that the mosaic law was no longer a requirement for Christians to follow.

Romans 7:7 "What, then, shall we say? Is the Law sin? Never may that become so! Really I would not have come to know sin if it had not been for the Law; and, for example, I would not have known covetousness if the Law had not said: “You must not covet."... 12 Wherefore, on its part, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good... 14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am fleshly, sold under sin...25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with [my] mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with [my] flesh to sin’s law.
8:1 "Therefore those in union with Christ Jesus have no condemnation. 2 For the law of that spirit which gives life in union with Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death"


Notice that Paul says that the Law is good and holy, but its purpose was to highlight sin and death. When Christ came and gave his life to cover sin and death, the law was no longer needed to highlight it....Jesus himself takes sin and death away by his sacrifice and this is why we should not be so focused on the mosaic law....unless of course you feel you are still bound by sin and death and are not convinced that Jesus sacrifice is capable of removing sin and death?

How do you know that. Abraham kept all of God's Torah.

Abraham was born in 2018 BCE. Do you know when the Mosaic law was given to the Isrealites? Over 400 years later. So its not possible that Abraham kept the Torah because the Torah didnt exist.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The we should be prepared to do as Abraham did which is to keep God's charge, God's commandments, God's statutes, and God's laws.

Yes, and we dont need the Torah to do that. How many laws did God give Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden? They didnt have the Torah either but they knew Gods standards because it was a part of their God given conscience...hence why they knew they had done the wrong thing when they ate from the tree. Abraham was a man who practiced good in his life and he didnt need the mosaic law in order to know how to please God.
 

RND

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Maybe we should just call them the 9 Commandments!

not according to the Apostle Paul who quoted one of the ten commandments when he was explaining that the mosaic law was no longer a requirement for Christians to follow.

Romans 7:7 "What, then, shall we say? Is the Law sin? Never may that become so! Really I would not have come to know sin if it had not been for the Law; and, for example, I would not have known covetousness if the Law had not said: “You must not covet."... 12 Wherefore, on its part, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good... 14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am fleshly, sold under sin...25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with [my] mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with [my] flesh to sin’s law.
8:1 "Therefore those in union with Christ Jesus have no condemnation. 2 For the law of that spirit which gives life in union with Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death"


Notice that Paul says that the Law is good and holy, but its purpose was to highlight sin and death.
Has that purpose of the law changed?

When Christ came and gave his life to cover sin and death, the law was no longer needed to highlight it....
For those who have accepted Christ this is true but what about those that haven't accepted Christ?

Jesus himself takes sin and death away by his sacrifice and this is why we should not be so focused on the mosaic law....
Again are the Ten Commandments part of the Mosaic law?

unless of course you feel you are still bound by sin and death and are not convinced that Jesus sacrifice is capable of removing sin and death?
Oh I certainly believe Jesus' death on the cross covers believers in His righteousness. But as believers shouldn't we walk even as He walked?

Abraham was born in 2018 BCE. Do you know when the Mosaic law was given to the Isrealites? Over 400 years later. So its not possible that Abraham kept the Torah because the Torah didnt exist.
You mean it was impossible for the Torah to be verbally shared and given to Abraham by God? The fact of the matter is that it is clear from Genesis 26:5 that Abraham obeyed the law (torah) of God so I think it would be proper to include a verse that said he didn't if I were you!

Yes, and we dont need the Torah to do that. How many laws did God give Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden?
My guess is all of them! The fact of the matter is we can see where all Ten Commandments were broken before the flood so my guess is that these Ten Commandments were verbally communicated.

They didnt have the Torah either but they knew Gods standards because it was a part of their God given conscience...
Yet the Bible doesn't make that distinction at all. It clearly states that this happened when God gave mah the laws "in his heart" under the new covenant.

hence why they knew they had done the wrong thing when they ate from the tree.
Correct. But God had told them what was wrong did He not?

Abraham was a man who practiced good in his life and he didnt need the mosaic law in order to know how to please God.
The word Torah means "law" and hence we can conclude that Abraham was given some law that he obeyed.
 

brionne

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Maybe we should just call them the 9 Commandments!

Has that purpose of the law changed?

Yes it has.

Under the mosiac law people were condemned to death for their sins. But God no longer holds our sins against us so as to require the death penalty. He forgives us on the basis of Jesus ransom sacrifice. So YES, the purpose of the mosaic law to highlight sin and death has come to its end.


For those who have accepted Christ this is true but what about those that haven't accepted Christ?

“Each of us will render an account for himself to God.” ROMANS 14:12.

We all have a choice and we all make our own choice. Those who choose not to accept Christ have made a choice just as we have and their fate rests in Gods hands.


Again are the Ten Commandments part of the Mosaic law?
yes they are. They are the ten basic principles which govern all other laws of the Law covenant.

Oh I certainly believe Jesus' death on the cross covers believers in His righteousness. But as believers shouldn't we walk even as He walked?
Yes we should, but in order to do that we need to know the instructions he gave to the Apostles. Part of those instructions are to have faith in the sacrifice of Jesus and trust that his sacrifice will cover our sins. If we dont believe that his sacrifice is greater then the mosaic law, then we have missed the whole point of that law and the whole point of why Jesus laid down his life.

From the time it was installed, the mosaic law was the only way anyone could obtain a righteous standing and forgiveness of sins....but not all sins were forgiven under that law, the death penalty was required for some sins.
However, Jesus sacrifice made it possible to have even the worst sins forgivable by God and so no death penalty was required under Christ. The freedom Paul spoke about was freedom from the punishment of death under the mosaic law...in Christ all will be made alive but under law all will be held accountable.

You mean it was impossible for the Torah to be verbally shared and given to Abraham by God? The fact of the matter is that it is clear from Genesis 26:5 that Abraham obeyed the law (torah) of God so I think it would be proper to include a verse that said he didn't if I were you!

you need to clarify what you mean when you say 'Torah'. Im assuming you mean the 'mosaic law' and not simply the laws that God instructed Abraham with.

The Hebrew word 'Torah' means 'to instruct, to teaching, to show' .... God isntructed Abraham to move from the city Ur and go to the land of cannan. Abraham obeyed. God gave instructions to Abraham about circumcision and again Abraham obeyed. He was asked to offer his son as a sacrifice and again he obeyed. So at that time, the 'torah' was Gods verbal directions to Abraham to which Abraham obeyed. Yes, we can say that Abraham obeyed Gods commandments, but they were not the mosaic laws that Abraham was obeying.
 

Eccl.12:13

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"But God no longer holds our sins against us so as to require the death penalty."


Let's read to see if Paul said the same.......


Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Here Paul says if we sin wilfully. "IF WE SIN"!!!!

Again......what is God's definition of "sin"?

1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Paul is telling us what to look forward to if we break God's commandments...."laws"!

Let's read the fate of those that break God's laws wilfully......

[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


Notice what God calls those that break His laws wilfully......"ADVERSARIES"

"For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries"

"the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies."



Now understand this is WAY after the death of Jesus.

Sure does not sound as though Paul is saying God no longer holds our sins against us.

Actually, Paul is saying just the opposite.

Paul is telling us Jesus has already given us a free pass when He shed His blood.

If we continue to sin after knowing He has shed His blood for us, He is NOT coming back to do it again.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

And what does Paul tell us remains for those that break God's commandments/laws wilfully.....?

"...a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..."

Sure sounds like a "...death penalty..." to me!


.
 

brionne

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Let's read to see if Paul said the same.......


"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

And what does Paul tell us remains for those that break God's commandments/laws wilfully.....?

"...a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..."

Sure sounds like a "...death penalty..." to me!


The emphasis should be on 'IF WE SIN WILLFULLY'

Of course there will be an adverse judgement given to those who are willful sinners because in order to benefit from jesus sacrifice, we must become followers of Christ in faith and work at doing good. A willful sinner is not following christ, is not putting faith in christ and is not doing good.


The forgiveness is only for those who are putting faith in Christ.
 

fivesense

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Thanks for the reviews and replies. But again.....the topic is NOT about which day we serve the Lord. It is about the rules God gave us that tell us HOW to serve the Lord on His Sabbath!

"Thanks for nothing", is what I say to those who omit the Apostle Paul's teaching on any matter. If I was a Jew, maybe something in your original post would ring a bell. But, since I am not, the Holy Spirit cannot bear witness to what you are proclaiming as truth for today, indeed it is falsehood to all but the Jew. Revamp your post, supply what the Apostle to the Gentiles said on the subject, realizing he completed the word of God for us (Col 1:25), and what he says, goes for the nations, or Gentiles if you prefer, and not the rehash of a history of a failed race and society.

fivesense
 

fivesense

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Let's read to see if Paul said the same.......
Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Anyone who is intimate with God and familiar with Paul's writings would never claim him as the author of this letter to the Hebrews. It is way out of whack with what he taught and preached, and the likelihood of him doing an about face in proclaiming the truth is absurd. Besides, his commission was for the nations, not the Jews, although God chose certain Hebrews for membership in the Body of Christ through Paul's ministry.

Paul's message was about election, predesignation, grace, faith, justification, a spiritual body in heaven reigning with Christ, without race or rank, and many other things not found in any of the other Greek Writings. The consideration that Paul wrote this unsigned letter to the Jewish believers, who had lost hope in the promise of the Kingdom, comes from being unable to discern the spirit of grace to which Paul was witness of and animated his being.

fivesense
 

Strangelove

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I’m seeing a lot of this doctrine of “let’s get back to the old law” going around Christian forums lately and to be quite honest I find it very disturbing. It is nothing but attempted judaization of Christians. What was the point of Jesus? He clearly came and changed everything. The reason I love Jesus so much was because He used absolutely brilliant common sense when He gave His two commandments. He knew that times were changing. He knew that no one could keep the old laws in the present world and in the future. He knew that in a modern world things needed to be simplified. Love God, Love Others. How simple is that?

Then Old Law fanboys say. “Oh so now we can go out and murder!!” This is complete nonsense and you know it. You cant go out and murder if you love God and love others. Simples. Your logic is utterly flawed if you take this argument.

The question real Christians need to ask themselves is::::: Why is there so much emphasis with a lot of denominations these days in “let’s get back to the old law”?

I’ve never been to church in my life. When I read the NT it was PERFECTLY clear that all the old laws were no longer applicable to believers in Jesus. Only His 2 commandments stand now.

Why are so many so called Christians into this judaization thing now?.

Well, I think I know the answer. We are being conditioned to accept old law. Christians are being brainwashed into accepting various sets of laws from the OT in preparation for the golden nugget. THE NOAHIDE COVENANT. Lets take a look>>>From wikipedia:: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

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The Seven Laws of Noah (Hebrew: שבע מצוות בני נח‎ Sheva mitzvot B'nei Noach), often referred to as the Noahide Laws or Noachide Code, are a set of seven moral imperatives that, according to the Talmud, were given by God to Noah as a binding set of laws for all mankind.[1] According to Judaism any non-Jew who lives according to these laws is regarded as a Righteous Gentile and is assured of a place in the world to come (Olam Haba), the Jewish concept of heaven.[2] Adherents are often called "B'nei Noach" (Children of Noah) or "Noahides" and may often network in Jewish synagogues.

The seven laws listed by the Tosefta and the Talmud are[3]

Prohibition of Idolatry: You shall not have any idols before God.
Prohibition of Murder: You shall not murder. (Genesis 9:6)
Prohibition of Theft: You shall not steal.
Prohibition of Sexual immorality: You shall not commit any of a series of sexual prohibitions, which include adultery, incest, sodomy, and bestiality.
Prohibition of Blasphemy: You shall not blaspheme God's name.
Dietary Law: Do not eat flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive. (Genesis 9:4, as interpreted in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 59a)
Requirement to have just Laws: Set up a governing body of law (eg Courts)


The Noahide Laws comprise the six laws which were given to Adam in the Garden of Eden according to the Talmud's interpretation of Gen 2:16[4] and a seventh one, which was added after the Flood of Noah. Later at the Revelation at Sinai the Seven Laws of Noah were regiven to humanity and embedded in the 613 Laws given to the Children of Israel along with the Ten Commandments, which are part of, and not separate from, the 613 mitzvot. These laws are mentioned in the Torah. According to Judaism, the 613 mitzvot or "commandments" given in the written Torah, as well as their reasonings in the oral Torah, were only issued to the Jews and are therefore binding only upon them, having inherited the obligation from their ancestors. At the same time, at Mount Sinai, the Children of Israel (i.e. the Children of Jacob, i.e. the Israelites) were given the obligation to teach other nations the embedded Noahide Laws. However, it is actually forbidden by the Talmud for non-Jews (on whom the Noahide Laws are still binding) to elevate their observance to the Torah's mitzvot as the Jews do.[5][6]

While some Jewish organizations, such as Chabad have worked to promote the acceptance of Noahide laws, there are no figures for how many actually do.

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At first glance these laws look ok yeah? Look a lot like the 10 commandments that many people wrongly think we should still be observing. Only problem is>>>

Law number 1) Prohibition of Idolatry: You shall not have any idols before God.

THIS LAW PROHIBITS WORSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST.

IT IS PUNISHABLE BY BEHEADING.

If you don’t believe me then I’d be happy to go into it. Anyone who thinks they are innocently trying to obey Gods old laws has got mixed up in the head. You have been trained, and are trying to train fellow Christians to accept defunct Jewish laws. Your only one step away from accepting other ancient Jewish laws but this time coming from Talmudic Christ hating Pharisees that dress their laws up to look like the ten commandments.

I would advise you to come out of that immediately if you value your faith in Christ.

Regards,

Doc.
 

Eccl.12:13

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"The consideration that Paul wrote this unsigned letter to the Jewish believers.....comes from being unable to discern the spirit of grace to which Paul was witness of and animated his being."

fivesense

Maybe quotes from another book would be better for you? Let's read what Paul had to say to some Gentiles.....


Rom.3
[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

And WHO did Paul say was under the law?

"...that EVERY mouth may be stopped..."

"...and ALL the world may become guilty..."

And WHO has and continues to break God's laws, even after Christ has died for us? Let's let Paul tell us....


[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Let's continue with more of Paul's writings, that is if you are ok with THIS letter from Paul!


[30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
[31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Do we do away with the law because we have faith? Paul tells these Romans we ESTABLISH the law!

Let's read some more of Paul's writings to the Romans;

Rom.7
[7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So if Jesus did away with the law, how is it that Paul still tries to KEEP the law by not coveting?

Not only that, do you think the Romans reading this letter know now that they TOO are not to covet based upon the LAW of God? Of course they know! Let's continue.....


[9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Before Paul knew God's laws his old man was alive. He was doing what he wanted because he had no idea there were laws saying he cound not.

But when he learned that there was a law against those things his old man died.

[10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

These new laws which bring life eternal, Paul found to be death to that old sinful man.

Now let's read what Paul tells these Romans about God's laws....

[12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Paul tells them God's law is HOLY JUST AND GOOD! Now let's confirm this....

[13] Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Was that that was ordained to life (The Law) is what caused death to the old me? GOD FORBID! It was SIN that cause the old me to die and it was coming into the knowledge of God's law that did it. For sin, after understanding the commandment, became even more sinful. Let's continue...


[22] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Sounds like Paul is keeping God's laws. I wonder what these Romans are thinking while reading this?

[25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;

So is this a better letter, or do you think this letter is counterfiet also?


.

 

Eccl.12:13

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You have been trained, and are trying to train fellow Christians to accept defunct Jewish laws.


Did you know that ALL of God's laws were around BEFORE an Israelite was ever born?

It was a sin for Cain to murder and he knew it! How? His God told him so! Now just as God told him that do you not think Cain knew ALL of the rest of God's laws?

Of course he did!!!

Just because the first time we find God's laws written down in Ex. does not mean man did not know they exsisted and should be followed. Let's read.....


Josh. 24 [2] And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods. IDOLATRY BEFORE MOSES!
Exod. 20 [3] Thou shalt have no other gods before me.


Gen. 12
[13] Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.
[17] And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.
[18] And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?
[19] Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way. ADULTERY BEFORE MOSES!
Exod. 20 [14] Thou shalt not commit adultery.



Gen. 30
[31] And he said, What shall I give thee? And Jacob said, Thou shalt not give me any thing: if thou wilt do this thing for me, I will again feed and keep thy flock:
[32] I will pass through all thy flock to day, removing from thence all the speckled and spotted cattle, and all the brown cattle among the sheep, and the spotted and speckled among the goats: and of such shall be my hire.
[33] So shall my righteousness answer for me in time to come, when it shall come for my hire before thy face: every one that is not speckled and spotted among the goats, and brown among the sheep, that shall be counted stolen with me. STEALING BEFORE MOSES!
Exod. 20 [15] Thou shalt not steal.


Now how can one say these were Jewish laws when man was trespassing them way before a Jew was ever born?





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Strangelove

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Aug 29, 2010
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Did you know that ALL of God's laws were around BEFORE an Israelite was ever born?

Were talking about WRITTEN law not moralistic feeling. This topic is about keeping the old tradition of sabbath as it was written to the Jews in the OT.

Are we told to keep the sabbath before Moses was given the law?
 

Eccl.12:13

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Aug 28, 2010
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Were talking about WRITTEN law not moralistic feeling. This topic is about keeping the old tradition of sabbath as it was written to the Jews in the OT.

Are we told to keep the sabbath before Moses was given the law?


YES!


Exod.16
[23] And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.



But to get a better understanding....l
et's read what God's word has to say about others that knew and kept God's laws as well.....

Gen.4
[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.

God told Cain that "SIN" lieth at the door.

Gen.13
[13] But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

God said the men were "SINNER".

Gen.20
[9] Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.

Here we have a king who is NOT a Hebrew that knows what a sin is. The sin of adultry!

Gen.21
[26] And Laban said to Jacob, What hast thou done, that thou hast stolen away unawares to me, and carried away my daughters, as captives taken with the sword?
[27] Wherefore didst thou flee away secretly, and steal away from me; and didst not tell me, that I might have sent thee away with mirth, and with songs, with tabret, and with harp?

And here we know that Laban knows it is wrong to steal!

Now where do you think the nations learned that these acts were wrong?

Why and how would a strange king, Abimelech, even know that it was wrong for a man to sleep with anothers man's wife. Let's read what the word of God says.....

[6] And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

So God made it known that what the king was about to do was a sin.

All of these acts are sins. And ALL of the nations knew it. And who is the ONLY one that can declare what a sin is? God!

Now let's read what God says sin is;

1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

So, getting back to your question, "Are we told to keep the sabbath before Moses was given the law?"

Yes! Although we do know have a "written" record that they knew, we KNOW they knew what sin was based upon the scriptures.

Let's read what God said about Abraham...

Gen.26
[5] Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Now what laws did Abraham keep? Where did he learn of these laws? The answer can only be, From God!

One more thing.....God's laws were not given to the nation of Israel only......let's read.....

Exod.12
[38] And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

So there were "other" nations that also followed the laws of God. Let's read some more....


[28] And the rest of the people, the priests, the Levites, the porters, the singers, the Nethinims, and all they that had separated themselves from the people of the lands unto the law of God, their wives, their sons, and their daughters, every one having knowledge, and having understanding;
[29] They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;

So God's laws again was NOT only for Israel, but for ALL that had knowledge and understanding.



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