Who are the elect? Not the pious IMO

Mantis said:

I personally think the elect are NOT people that are pious. I think the elect are people who are so screwed up that if God didn't intervene in their lives, they would perish. I think I am elect, not because I am pious but because Jesus came to me in such a supernatural way that if he didn't I would have perished. He let me know he is very real and he is God. And when I met him I realized we knew each other, from before earth born life. So I realized he foreknew me. This was before I ever started reading the Bible.

I think God looked through the future and knew who would eventually accept him and who would reject him. I think the elect are idiots such as myself that would throw away their eternity for some pleasures of Satan and after living in sin for so long and seeing its horrible consequences, finally realizing they need God. Not knowing the sever consequences of rejecting God, Jesus knew I was too stupid to realize what I was doing. In repentance I prayed to God and he answered my prayer(Thank you Jesus!!!!).

There is not much about the elect, explaining who they are. That is my opinion on who they are. Not saying I am correct, but that is what I think.

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Hi Mantis!
I believe the elect are all and any who heed His call. He said that if He be lifted up, He would draw ALL men tp Him but, as we know...very many will not heed that call.

Mantis said:

That’s an interesting quote from Jesus. Another is something like “MANY are called but few are chosen”.
Do you think he calls everyone?

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I do. The ones who are chosen are the contrite in heart, the ones who KNOW they need a savior and repent of their ways. I have had personal dealings with the Calvinistic doctrine, back in the 90's, it had me reeling and stole my hope and joy of salvation. But, God did not let me go! Oh no, He was NEVER away from my mind as I wondered how He would create people specifically for hell,...to show His glory. That is not the God I know and Love. I'll probably get attacked for writing this but I really don't care anymore what others on here think of me and, I know I am not liked by several here but...it's okay! All that matters is what God say's about His children, and I am one of His children!
He Loves You. Don't let the wrested scripture verses stop you from seeking Him!
In Him always,
nancy

Mantis said:

I personally think the elect are NOT people that are pious. I think the elect are people who are so screwed up that if God didn't intervene in their lives, they would perish. I think I am elect, not because I am pious but because Jesus came to me in such a supernatural way that if he didn't I would have perished. He let me know he is very real and he is God. And when I met him I realized we knew each other, from before earth born life. So I realized he foreknew me. This was before I ever started reading the Bible.
.

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I had a vision as a child and one visitation about four years ago. I would have to admit that I don't personally feel like I am the elect - and that's because I just don't feel like I'm that high up there in terms of Biblical knowledge or character. If I had to choose the "elect" in our times, although he is passed, I would have thought someone like Billy Graham. I wasn't all that high up there on standards either when it happened. I was into some bad stuff, but he still came to me but that's kind of the point.

We love because He first loved us.
1 John 4:9

Second, I think that my visitation (for me personally) was because I was messing up so much, turned my back on Christ, and it wasn't God's plan for me. "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
John 20:29

Now it could be totally different for you but that is just my experience. I think part of the reason that some people are "screwed up", as you put it and I am well ready to admit that I was a little more than screwed up, is because they have also experienced a lot of hurt. To be honest, I think that God knows more about that hurt and is more understanding of it than anyone else ever could possibly be, because he knows you and your experiences, and exactly how it was.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

I had a vision as a child and one visitation about four years ago. I would have to admit that I don't personally feel like I am the elect - and that's because I just don't feel like I'm that high up there in terms of Biblical knowledge or character. If I had to choose the "elect" in our times, although he is passed, I would have thought someone like Billy Graham. I wasn't all that high up there on standards either when it happened. I was into some bad stuff, but he still came to me but that's kind of the point.

We love because He first loved us.
1 John 4:9

Second, I think that my visitation (for me personally) was because I was messing up so much, turned my back on Christ, and it wasn't God's plan for me. "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
John 20:29

Now it could be totally different for you but that is just my experience. I think part of the reason that some people are "screwed up", as you put it and I am well ready to admit that I was a little more than screwed up, is because they have also experienced a lot of hurt. To be honest, I think that God knows more about that hurt and is more understanding of it than anyone else ever could possibly be, because he knows you and your experiences, and exactly how it was.

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@FluffyYellowDuck That quote from John's First Epistle - the whole, short Epistle, indeed - is so searching...

Mantis said:

How could someone not like you? I think there are a lot of people who have pride when it comes to doctrine and Bible knowledge which leads to arguments. I like what you said about not caring what other think of you. I’m in the same boat. Only Christian in my family. You have to get to the point of only caring what God thinks of you. People just straight up don’t get along anymore.

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I should have re-phrased that, some on here don't like my beliefs? Oh this place is packed full of pride brother. I'm right, your wrong...on and on. If God knows our hearts, that is all that SHOULD matter...do we please men? Never!
And you are correct Mantis, people just "straight up don't get along anymore. It sometimes resembles young kids fighting among each other, at a certain point, mom doesn't even care who did what or even started it! She's tired of her children always fighting. Kind of makes me think that God is pretty low on patience with us as, with all the fighting, it only shows that we do NOT love one another. And He commanded us TO love one another. Some will not consider certain people brothers or sisters, or even saved if not believing as they do. Are we open for what He has for us? Genuinely open to Him? If so, HE will make things clear, Amen!!

When I was 2 years old, my earliest memory was that I became aware, or conscious.
In front of this awareness was a shining light.
All around the light was darkness.
In 1994 as I sat in a Christian Adults In Recovery group, the leader of the group, a Vineyard pastor, related the same story.
It was the first and only time I've ever heard anyone else tell this story.
I've tried over the past while to understand who the elect are, and though I have a pretty good idea, I can't say for sure.
What I can say for sure is that God has clearly shown me that I am one of the 12,000 chosen from the tribe of Levi, who have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7).
As a Levite, I am a forerunner whom God has led through my personal great tribulation so I can assist others through theirs.
My job, as I see it, is to assist in waking up the lost sheep of the House of Israel, and to assist those who God is calling out of the tribes of Jacob in washing their own robes.
One day around last September, Jesus resurrected Himself, along with me, in my heart.
I believe much, if not most of the 144,000 are to be found in the Christian church.
Apart from God, my go-to source for information on the gathering of the lost ten tribes of the ancient northern kingdom of the house of Israel, sent into Assyrian exile by God for worshiping idols and demons 2,700 years ago, is Brit/Am Hebrew Nations with Yair Davidiy, who, though he is an orthodox Jew, is friendly to Christians and in my opinion, is being used in a large way by our God.
I understand that Christian theology and doctrine can make this hard to accept, but nevertheless, it is true.
This thread seems like I've found my home on this forum.

@FluffyYellowDuck Here's a great, assuring passage for believers to know they are indeed the chosen of God:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." (Ephesians 1.3-6)

farouk said:

@FluffyYellowDuck Here's a great, assuring passage for believers to know they are indeed the chosen of God:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." (Ephesians 1.3-6)

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Lovely scripture, indeed! Thank you

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Lovely scripture, indeed! Thank you

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@FluffyYellowDuck YW; Ephesians is so searching and sublimely encouraging!

Mantis said:

I personally think the elect are NOT people that are pious.

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The elect are neither pious nor impious. The elect are those who have been justified by grace through faith and elected to be perfected and glorified. Divine election is purely by the grace of God, and confirms the fact of the eternal security of the believer.

Enoch111 said:

Divine election is purely by the grace of God, and confirms the fact of the eternal security of the believer.

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Indeed; I would strongly see eternal security as Scriptural; Romans 8 strongly affirms it.

Enoch111 said:

The elect are neither pious nor impious. The elect are those who have been justified by grace through faith and elected to be perfected and glorified. Divine election is purely by the grace of God, and confirms the fact of the eternal security of the believer.

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It brings the scripture to mind...

For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. - Matthew 24:24

Now if they were all perfected and glorified, how would they be deceived? Jesus was tempted by Satan himself, and only he could be perfect, but he himself also said, "Why do you call me good? Only the father is good." Or do you mean as perfect as a human can get?

Here is what I found so far:

• Isaiah 42:1, God’s elect is Jesus Christ.
• Isaiah 45:1, God’s elect are the people of Israel.
• Isaiah 65:9, God’s elect are people that inherit God’s mountains or land.
• Isaiah 65:22, God’s elect are those who inherit the new heavens and a new earth.

From this link

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Now if they were all perfected and glorified, how would they be deceived?

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Obviously you have not understood what was said. Election refers to FUTURE perfection and glorification at the Resurrection/Rapture.

And you have also misunderstood the verse you quoted. It says "if it were possible" (KJV). Which means that it is not possible.

Enoch111 said:

Obviously you have not understood what was said. Election refers to FUTURE perfection and glorification at the Resurrection/Rapture.

And you have also misunderstood the verse you quoted. It says "if it were possible" (KJV). Which means that it is not possible.

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Okay, I see what you're saying. Perhaps, but it seems to me that the use of the phrase "even the elect" would just be "even the elect," and not worth noting if it were impossible. Or, alternatively, had it been impossible, I would think that it would just say "except for the elect." I also consider that "if it were possible" would be based on person to person.

Out of curiosity, I looked it up in the Geneva. (Which is older than the KJV and used by the pilgrims.) Seems the phrase isn't even there.

Geneva Version:
Matthew 24:4 And Iesus answered, and sayd vnto them, Take heede that no man deceiue you. Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceiue many.

It just stops there.

@FluffyYellowDuck To get a sense of the eternal purposes of God grasped by the church, I think Ephesians read in conjunction with the letter to Ephesus is Revelation makes for a good exercise.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Okay, I see what you're saying. Perhaps, but it seems to me that the use of the phrase "even the elect" would just be "even the elect," and not worth noting if it were impossible. Or, alternatively, had it been impossible, I would think that it would just say "except for the elect." I also consider that "if it were possible" would be based on person to person.

Out of curiosity, I looked it up in the Geneva. (Which is older than the KJV and used by the pilgrims.) Seems the phrase isn't even there.

Geneva Version:
Matthew 24:4 And Iesus answered, and sayd vnto them, Take heede that no man deceiue you. Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceiue many.

It just stops there.

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@FluffyYellowDuck Do you have a copy of the Geneva Bible?

I wish I had...