Christ's Furthest Ancestor

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Webers_Home

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FAQ: How was Christ biologically related to Adam without having a biological
father? (Luke 1:26-34)


A: The woman wasn't a discreet creation, i.e. Eve wasn't a solo specimen
constructed directly from dust like Adam was; instead, Eve was made from
already-created human material taken from Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-22)

In other words: chemically, organically, and biologically; Eve was just as
much the Man as Adam; except of course for gender. (Gen 2:23)

So then, any posterity that Eve's body might engender would be Adam's
posterity just as much as they would be hers because every part of the
posterity's bodies-- including their brains --would be constructed with
material taken from their mother's body; which was, in turn, constructed
with material taken from Adam's body.

Addressing the Serpent, God said:

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and
her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." (Gen
3:15)

Pretty much everybody on both sides of the aisle agrees that passage
predicted Christ.

"her seed" indicates that Christ would be Eve's biological posterity; and if so,
then he would also be Adam's biological posterity because all of Eve's bodily
parts and functions were constructed of material taken from Adam's body.

There's more.

Mary's pregnancy is stated to be caused not by an implant, rather, caused
by conception.

Luke 1:31 . .You will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall
name him Jesus.

In order for Mary's pregnancy to be the result of conception, her body's seed
would have to be involved. Well, unless someone can prove beyond the
slightest hint of sensible doubt that Mary's body was in no way the biological
posterity of Eve's body, then we have to conclude that Eve's seed was the
origin of Mary's seed; and if so, then the origin of Mary's seed was Adam's
body.
_
 

Nancy

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FAQ: How was Christ biologically related to Adam without having a biological
father? (Luke 1:26-34)


A: The woman wasn't a discreet creation, i.e. Eve wasn't a solo specimen
constructed directly from dust like Adam was; instead, Eve was made from
already-created human material taken from Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-22)

In other words: chemically, organically, and biologically; Eve was just as
much the Man as Adam; except of course for gender. (Gen 2:23)

So then, any posterity that Eve's body might engender would be Adam's
posterity just as much as they would be hers because every part of the
posterity's bodies-- including their brains --would be constructed with
material taken from their mother's body; which was, in turn, constructed
with material taken from Adam's body.

Addressing the Serpent, God said:

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and
her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." (Gen
3:15)

Pretty much everybody on both sides of the aisle agrees that passage
predicted Christ.

"her seed" indicates that Christ would be Eve's biological posterity; and if so,
then he would also be Adam's biological posterity because all of Eve's bodily
parts and functions were constructed of material taken from Adam's body.

There's more.

Mary's pregnancy is stated to be caused not by an implant, rather, caused
by conception.

Luke 1:31 . .You will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall
name him Jesus.

In order for Mary's pregnancy to be the result of conception, her body's seed
would have to be involved. Well, unless someone can prove beyond the
slightest hint of sensible doubt that Mary's body was in no way the biological
posterity of Eve's body, then we have to conclude that Eve's seed was the
origin of Mary's seed; and if so, then the origin of Mary's seed was Adam's
body.
_

Now, that is interesting. Have not heard this before and, at least to me, it makes sense! How else could Christ be of that lineage?
Good stuff :)
 
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justbyfaith

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FAQ: How was Christ biologically related to Adam without having a biological
father? (Luke 1:26-34)


A: The woman wasn't a discreet creation, i.e. Eve wasn't a solo specimen
constructed directly from dust like Adam was; instead, Eve was made from
already-created human material taken from Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-22)

In other words: chemically, organically, and biologically; Eve was just as
much the Man as Adam; except of course for gender. (Gen 2:23)

So then, any posterity that Eve's body might engender would be Adam's
posterity just as much as they would be hers because every part of the
posterity's bodies-- including their brains --would be constructed with
material taken from their mother's body; which was, in turn, constructed
with material taken from Adam's body.

Addressing the Serpent, God said:

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and
her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." (Gen
3:15)

Pretty much everybody on both sides of the aisle agrees that passage
predicted Christ.

"her seed" indicates that Christ would be Eve's biological posterity; and if so,
then he would also be Adam's biological posterity because all of Eve's bodily
parts and functions were constructed of material taken from Adam's body.

There's more.

Mary's pregnancy is stated to be caused not by an implant, rather, caused
by conception.

Luke 1:31 . .You will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall
name him Jesus.

In order for Mary's pregnancy to be the result of conception, her body's seed
would have to be involved. Well, unless someone can prove beyond the
slightest hint of sensible doubt that Mary's body was in no way the biological
posterity of Eve's body, then we have to conclude that Eve's seed was the
origin of Mary's seed; and if so, then the origin of Mary's seed was Adam's
body.
_

No, for the Holy Ghost created a supernatural specimen of "seed" that became one with the egg in Mary's womb.

This "seed" was the Holy Ghost as He became manifested physically and unified with Mary's egg to form a zygote that would become the Son of God.

The origin of this seed was supernatural creation and not the result of Eve carrying down her DNA to Mary.

I was the "seed of the woman" in that its origins were to be found in Mary's womb; but its creation was supernatural and did not carry the sin-DNA of Adam and Eve....it was the Holy Ghost become physical and then united with the egg in Mary's womb so that the human being that would come forth of this would be 100% Man and 100% God.
 
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Nancy

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No, for the Holy Ghost created a supernatural specimen of "seed" that became one with the egg in Mary's womb.

This "seed" was the Holy Ghost as He became manifested physically and unified with Mary's egg to form a zygote that would become the Son of God.

The origin of this seed was supernatural creation and not the result of Eve carrying down her DNA to Mary.

I was the "seed of the woman" in that its origins were to be found in Mary's womb; but its creation was supernatural and did not carry the sin-DNA of Adam and Eve....it was the Holy Ghost become physical and then united with the egg in Mary's womb so that the human being that would come forth of this would be 100% Man and 100% God.

Hello JBF,
What you said is how I've always and only looked at this subject but, how do you answer Weber's question of : "How was Christ biologically related to Adam without having a biological father? (Luke 1:26-34) "
 

ChristisGod

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FAQ: How was Christ biologically related to Adam without having a biological
father? (Luke 1:26-34)


A: The woman wasn't a discreet creation, i.e. Eve wasn't a solo specimen
constructed directly from dust like Adam was; instead, Eve was made from
already-created human material taken from Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-22)

In other words: chemically, organically, and biologically; Eve was just as
much the Man as Adam; except of course for gender. (Gen 2:23)

So then, any posterity that Eve's body might engender would be Adam's
posterity just as much as they would be hers because every part of the
posterity's bodies-- including their brains --would be constructed with
material taken from their mother's body; which was, in turn, constructed
with material taken from Adam's body.

Addressing the Serpent, God said:

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and
her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." (Gen
3:15)

Pretty much everybody on both sides of the aisle agrees that passage
predicted Christ.

"her seed" indicates that Christ would be Eve's biological posterity; and if so,
then he would also be Adam's biological posterity because all of Eve's bodily
parts and functions were constructed of material taken from Adam's body.

There's more.

Mary's pregnancy is stated to be caused not by an implant, rather, caused
by conception.

Luke 1:31 . .You will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall
name him Jesus.

In order for Mary's pregnancy to be the result of conception, her body's seed
would have to be involved. Well, unless someone can prove beyond the
slightest hint of sensible doubt that Mary's body was in no way the biological
posterity of Eve's body, then we have to conclude that Eve's seed was the
origin of Mary's seed; and if so, then the origin of Mary's seed was Adam's
body.
_
So would you say the adam and eve were the only 2 human beings with the exact same DNA ?
 

ChristisGod

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No, for the Holy Ghost created a supernatural specimen of "seed" that became one with the egg in Mary's womb.

This "seed" was the Holy Ghost as He became manifested physically and unified with Mary's egg to form a zygote that would become the Son of God.

The origin of this seed was supernatural creation and not the result of Eve carrying down her DNA to Mary.

I was the "seed of the woman" in that its origins were to be found in Mary's womb; but its creation was supernatural and did not carry the sin-DNA of Adam and Eve....it was the Holy Ghost become physical and then united with the egg in Mary's womb so that the human being that would come forth of this would be 100% Man and 100% God.
What on earth are you talking about ?

The Holy Spirit became PHYSICAL ?

huh .............................

Got Scripture ???????
 
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CharismaticLady

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So would you say the adam and eve were the only 2 human beings with the exact same DNA ?

I would say they had the "same" DNA. Related, yes. But God created woman, and woman has different DNA than man. Identical twins have the same DNA, but Fraternal twins of boy and girl do not.
 

CharismaticLady

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No, for the Holy Ghost created a supernatural specimen of "seed" that became one with the egg in Mary's womb.

This "seed" was the Holy Ghost as He became manifested physically and unified with Mary's egg to form a zygote that would become the Son of God.

The origin of this seed was supernatural creation and not the result of Eve carrying down her DNA to Mary.

I was the "seed of the woman" in that its origins were to be found in Mary's womb; but its creation was supernatural and did not carry the sin-DNA of Adam and Eve....it was the Holy Ghost become physical and then united with the egg in Mary's womb so that the human being that would come forth of this would be 100% Man and 100% God.

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that the seed of the woman, the egg in Mary, did NOT have the same DNA as her other eggs? That is the only way Mary could not pass down the sin gene. I think you are close...

What I think happened, is the same thing that can happen to all Christians. The egg was "born again" in the same sense that our nature is. 1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

Many say only Jesus could live a sinless life. That is half true. No one is born sinless as He was, but no matter how bad we sinned in our past before Jesus, He not only cleansed away those sins, He took away the sin nature that produced them. That is why it was only necessary for Him to cleanse our PAST sins 1 John 1:8, and not our PRESENT AND FUTURE sins as false teaching fails to understand, because our new nature doesn't willfully sin. Jesus came to make many brethren just like He was in His human state. Romans 8:29-30, 1 John 3:5.

Even after being dead to sin, we still have the freedom of choice. Be wise and continue non-stop walking in the Spirit. Sinning is what separates a true Christian from a false one. Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Read all of 1 John 3. (And never let any of the false ones who can only relate to needing to sin, tell you that 1 John 1:8 is after being born again.)
 
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Webers_Home

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That is the only way Mary could not pass down the sin gene.

It's believed by a pretty large percentage of modern Christians that the so
called fallen nature is inherited from one's biological father. Oh? From
whence did the woman get it?

She was constructed with material taken from Adam's body prior to the
forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after his wife was
born; then it was impossible for Adam to pass the so-called fallen nature to
her by means of procreation.

In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had
something to do with the change that took place in the first couple's moral
perception; but now I seriously doubt it because the woman was the first to
eat it, and when she did, nothing happened.

She remained shameless and went about in the buff as usual; the woman's
self awareness was unchanged, and her feelings about the human body
remained the same. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that she began to
think that full frontal nudity is indecent; so I'm pretty sure that the
underlying cause is far more serious than the chemistry of that fruit.

Ruling out Adam, and ruling out the fruit; we're left with two alternatives:
either God did it to them or the Serpent did it. My money is on the Serpent,
a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2)

He has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the
human body and the human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke
13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment
that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it
takes effect. As soon as Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both
immediately set to work with the fig leaves.


FAQ: Why wasn't the woman effected by the Serpent's power when she
tasted the forbidden fruit?


A: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come into
the world, they would come via a male's actions just as life and
righteousness would later be offered to the world via a male's actions. (Rom
5:12-21)


FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of
the womb?

A: Adam and his wife demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but I'm
guessing that for most of us it's in the womb. (Ps 51:5 & 58:3)

Bottom line: Jesus didn't inherit the fallen nature simply because it isn't
inherited; and all that was necessary to protect Mary's baby from infection
was to keep the Serpent's paws off him.
_
 
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CharismaticLady

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It's believed by a pretty large percentage of modern Christians that the so
called fallen nature is inherited from one's biological father. Oh? From
whence did the woman get it?

She was constructed with material taken from Adam's body prior to the
forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after his wife was
born; then it was impossible for Adam to pass the so-called fallen nature to
her by means of procreation.

In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had
something to do with the change that took place in the first couple's moral
perception; but now I seriously doubt it because the woman was the first to
eat it, and when she did, nothing happened.

She remained shameless and went about in the buff as usual; the woman's
self awareness was unchanged, and her feelings about the human body
remained the same. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that she began to
think that full frontal nudity is indecent; so I'm pretty sure that the
underlying cause is far more serious than the chemistry of that fruit.

Ruling out Adam, and ruling out the fruit; we're left with two alternatives:
either God did it to them or the Serpent did it. My money is on the Serpent,
a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2)

He has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the
human body and the human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke
13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment
that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it
takes effect. As soon as Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both
immediately set to work with the fig leaves.


FAQ: Why wasn't the woman effected by the Serpent's power when she
tasted the forbidden fruit?


A: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come into
the world, they would come via a male's actions just as life and
righteousness would later be offered to the world via a male's actions. (Rom
5:12-21)


FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of
the womb?

A: Adam and his wife demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but I'm
guessing that for most of us it's in the womb. (Ps 51:5 & 58:3)

Bottom line: Jesus didn't inherit the fallen nature simply because it isn't
inherited; and all that was necessary to protect Mary's baby from infection
was to keep the Serpent's paws off him.
_

Well Adam was the willful culprit, sinning willfully against God's command to him. Mary was innocent, so was easily tricked. She wasn't street-wise to know she should not believe everything she hears. They didn't know they were naked when Eve ate innocently, until when Adam ate willfully. Hebrews 10:26. Yet Paul takes Adam's side. Typical! Are women's hands not holy? Are we just known for shallowness and fashion?

Look at verse 12. It is not a command from God, but Paul's will and denial.

8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; 9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. 11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.
 

justbyfaith

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Hello JBF,
What you said is how I've always and only looked at this subject but, how do you answer Weber's question of : "How was Christ biologically related to Adam without having a biological father? (Luke 1:26-34) "

What on earth are you talking about ?

The Holy Spirit became PHYSICAL ?

huh .............................

Got Scripture ???????

Genesis 3:15 w/ Luke 1:35...

How about John 1:14 w/ Luke 1:35?

Are you saying that the seed of the woman, the egg in Mary, did NOT have the same DNA as her other eggs?

The "seed of the woman" is a supernatural occurence...normally the seed comes from the man. So no, the seed of the woman is not the egg in Mary. But yes, the "seed of the woman" did not have the same DNA as Mary's eggs.
 

Philip James

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"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and
her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." (Gen
3:15)

Pretty much everybody on both sides of the aisle agrees that passage
predicted Christ.

And Mary. She is 'the woman' . We see that again in Rev 12...

Peace be with you!
 

Webers_Home

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FAQ: Can it be known for certain whether Jesus' mom was biologically
related to David?


A: Yes; very easily.

First off: David is said to be Jesus' ancestor.

Luke 1:32 . . He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest:
and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David.

Now, a clever sophist could construe that verse to mean Jesus was David's
descendant by some other means besides biologically; however the Bible
also says:

Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh

The Greek word for "seed" in that passage is sperma (sper'-mah) which is a
bit ambiguous because it can refer to spiritual progeny as well as to
biological progeny; for example:

Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.

That seed is obviously spiritual progeny; whereas David's seed is biological
because it's "according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.

Seeing as how Joseph wasn't Jesus' biological father, then we're left with
Jesus' mom as the default path of flesh connecting to David's flesh.
_
 
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