Where does the Bible say...

Taken · Jan 4, 2021

theefaith said:
Where does the Bible say the Bible is the final authority?

Pss 119:160
Reveals Every Word of God IS True.

Tim 3:16-17
Reveals The Written Word of Scripture is For our Benefit to Verify What we "hear men speak", comparing with Gods Written Word, that what "is" spoken by men, be True or Not.

Every Individual has Freewill to Decide "whose" Word is their OWN final Authority.

Personally, I choose Gods Word as my final Authority, and Verify "mens" words Against Scriptural Written words, God Himself Approved, and the Lord Himself taught to use for Verification of men's teaching.

Glory to God,
Taken

theefaith · Jan 4, 2021

Taken said:
Pss 119:160
Reveals Every Word of God IS True.

Tim 3:16-17
Reveals The Written Word of Scripture is For our Benefit to Verify What we "hear men speak", comparing with Gods Written Word, that what "is" spoken by men, be True or Not.

Every Individual has Freewill to Decide "whose" Word is their OWN final Authority.

Personally, I choose Gods Word as my final Authority, and Verify "mens" words Against Scriptural Written words, God Himself Approved, and the Lord Himself taught to use for Verification of men's teaching.

Glory to God,
Taken

yes it is the word of God i agree
Where does it say the word of God is limited to the Bible alone, or that the Bible is the only or final authority

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

God always establishes order in men with the people’s obedience to hierarchical authority!

Joseph administered the kingdom under pharaoh while receiving obedience from His brothers!

Genesis 42:6
And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.

Illuminator · Jan 4, 2021

BarnyFife said:
Regardless of your and others' endless rhetoric and antagonistic questions, the Bible doesn't teach apostolic succession of infallibility.

Neither do Catholics. You repeatedly demonstrate a refusal or inability to understand every possible explanation. You can have the last word. Good bye.

BarneyFife · Jan 4, 2021

Illuminator said:
Neither do Catholics. You repeatedly demonstrate a refusal or inability to understand every possible explanation. You can have the last word. Good bye.

What I don't understand is a lot of denial and doubletalk. Adios.

Illuminator · Jan 4, 2021

The first Christians had no doubts about how to determine which was the true Church and which doctrines the true teachings of Christ. The test was simple: Just trace the apostolic succession of the claimants.

Apostolic succession is the line of bishops stretching back to the apostles. All over the world, all Catholic bishops are part of a lineage that goes back to the time of the apostles, something that is impossible in BarneyFife's made-in-America so called "church", so he bashes it with mindless ramblings.

The role of apostolic succession in preserving true doctrine is illustrated in the Bible. To make sure that the apostles’ teachings would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy,
“What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first three generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, and the generation Timothy will teach.

The Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, regularly appealed to apostolic succession as a test for whether Catholics or heretics had correct doctrine. This was necessary because heretics simply put their own interpretations, even bizarre ones, on Scripture. Clearly, something other than Scripture had to be used as an ultimate test of doctrine in these cases.

Thus the early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes, “Where in practice was the apostolic testimony or tradition to be found? . . . The most obvious answer was that the apostles had committed it orally to the Church, where it had been handed down from generation to generation. . . . Unlike the alleged secret tradition of the Gnostics, it was entirely public and open, having been entrusted by the apostles to their successors, and by these in turn to those who followed them, and was visible in the Church for all who cared to look for it” (Early Christian Doctrines, 37).
What the Early Church Believed: Apostolic Succession | Catholic Answers

BarneyFife · Jan 4, 2021

Illuminator said:
The first Christians had no doubts about how to determine which was the true Church and which doctrines the true teachings of Christ. The test was simple: Just trace the apostolic succession of the claimants.

Apostolic succession is the line of bishops stretching back to the apostles. All over the world, all Catholic bishops are part of a lineage that goes back to the time of the apostles, something that is impossible in BarneyFife's made-in-America so called "church", so he bashes it with mindless ramblings.

The role of apostolic succession in preserving true doctrine is illustrated in the Bible. To make sure that the apostles’ teachings would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy,
“What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first three generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, and the generation Timothy will teach.

The Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, regularly appealed to apostolic succession as a test for whether Catholics or heretics had correct doctrine. This was necessary because heretics simply put their own interpretations, even bizarre ones, on Scripture. Clearly, something other than Scripture had to be used as an ultimate test of doctrine in these cases.

Thus the early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes, “Where in practice was the apostolic testimony or tradition to be found? . . . The most obvious answer was that the apostles had committed it orally to the Church, where it had been handed down from generation to generation. . . . Unlike the alleged secret tradition of the Gnostics, it was entirely public and open, having been entrusted by the apostles to their successors, and by these in turn to those who followed them, and was visible in the Church for all who cared to look for it” (Early Christian Doctrines, 37).
What the Early Church Believed: Apostolic Succession | Catholic Answers

I thought I was getting the last word. Pretty disingenuous of you, I must say.

BarneyFife · Jan 4, 2021

Illuminator said:
The Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, regularly appealed to apostolic succession as a test for whether Catholics or heretics had correct doctrine. This was necessary because heretics simply put their own interpretations, even bizarre ones, on Scripture. Clearly, something other than Scripture had to be used as an ultimate test of doctrine in these cases.

Conclusion: Aggressive defenders of Catholicism can't decide whether Scripture is enough to support correct doctrine or not. But they demonize those who don't agree with them, regardless.

BreadOfLife · Jan 6, 2021

BarnyFife said:
Conclusion: Aggressive defenders of Catholicism can't decide whether Scripture is enough to support correct doctrine or not. But they demonize those who don't agree with them, regardless.

And yet YOU haven't pointed to a SINGLE doctrine that a Catholic can't defend using Scripture - have you.

That's what I thought . . .

Brakelite · Jan 7, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
And yet YOU haven't pointed to a SINGLE doctrine that a Catholic can't defend using Scripture - have you.

That's what I thought . . .

Lol. Sunday sacredness... The assumption of Mary...the immaculate conception... The entire priesthood as a mechanism for being mediators between God and man... The theory of there being a heavenly bank from which we can withdraw merit... Purgatory... Eternal torment... Natural immortality of the soul...

theefaith · Jan 7, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
And yet YOU haven't pointed to a SINGLE doctrine that a Catholic can't defend using Scripture - have you.

That's what I thought . . .

Even the immaculate conception and the perpetual virginity can be defended by scripture alone

BreadOfLife · Jan 7, 2021

Backlit said:
Lol. Sunday sacredness... The assumption of Mary...the immaculate conception... The entire priesthood as a mechanism for being mediators between God and man... The theory of there being a heavenly bank from which we can withdraw merit... Purgatory... Eternal torment... Natural immortality of the soul...

The assumption of Mary... (Rev. 12:1)

Sunday sacredness... (Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:2, Rev. 1:10)

the immaculate conception... (Luke 1:38)

The entire priesthood as a mechanism for being mediators between God and man... (James 5:13-15)

The theory of there being a heavenly bank from which we can withdraw merit... Yhis isn't a Catholic doctrine.

Purgatory... (Macc. 42-46, Matt. 5:25-26, 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32-35, and Luke 12:58-59)

Eternal torment... (Isa. 33:11, 14, Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46, Matt. 26:24, Mark 9:47–48, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9)

Natural immortality of the soul... (Dan. 12:2, Rom. 6:23, Psalm 146:4, 2 Tim. 1:10, Eccl. 9:10, Gen. 2:17, Matt. 25-46, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9, Rom. 2:7)

Anything else, son?

theefaith · Jan 7, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
The assumption of Mary... (Rev. 12:1)

Sunday sacredness... (Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:2, Rev. 1:10)

the immaculate conception... (Luke 1:38)

The entire priesthood as a mechanism for being mediators between God and man... (James 5:13-15)

The theory of there being a heavenly bank from which we can withdraw merit... Yhis isn't a Catholic doctrine.

Purgatory... (Macc. 42-46, Matt. 5:25-26, 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32-35, and Luke 12:58-59)

Eternal torment... (Isa. 33:11, 14, Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46, Matt. 26:24, Mark 9:47–48, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9)

Natural immortality of the soul... (Dan. 12:2, Rom. 6:23, Psalm 146:4, 2 Tim. 1:10, Eccl. 9:10, Gen. 2:17, Matt. 25-46, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9, Rom. 2:7)

Anything else, son?

heavenly bank IDK the merits of Christ are infinite supply of all graces!

Jn1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (Mary is the mother of divine grace)

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Illuminator · Jan 7, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
The theory of there being a heavenly bank from which we can withdraw merit... This isn't a Catholic doctrine.

no, it isn't, but I found this:
2006 The term "merit" refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.

2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.

2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God's gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us "co-heirs" with Christ and worthy of obtaining "the promised inheritance of eternal life."60 The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness.61 "Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God's gifts."62

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God's wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.
full context CCC 1987-2029

theefaith · Jan 8, 2021

Illuminator said:
no, it isn't, but I found this:
2006 The term "merit" refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.

2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.

2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God's gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us "co-heirs" with Christ and worthy of obtaining "the promised inheritance of eternal life."60 The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness.61 "Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God's gifts."62

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God's wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.
full context CCC 1987-2029

the infinite merits of Jesus thru the eternal sacrifice of the lamb of God are possessed by holy mother church!

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Brakelite · Jan 10, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
The assumption of Mary... (Rev. 12:1)

Sunday sacredness... (Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:2, Rev. 1:10)

the immaculate conception... (Luke 1:38)

The entire priesthood as a mechanism for being mediators between God and man... (James 5:13-15)

The theory of there being a heavenly bank from which we can withdraw merit... Yhis isn't a Catholic doctrine.

Purgatory... (Macc. 42-46, Matt. 5:25-26, 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32-35, and Luke 12:58-59)

Eternal torment... (Isa. 33:11, 14, Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46, Matt. 26:24, Mark 9:47–48, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9)

Natural immortality of the soul... (Dan. 12:2, Rom. 6:23, Psalm 146:4, 2 Tim. 1:10, Eccl. 9:10, Gen. 2:17, Matt. 25-46, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9, Rom. 2:7)

Anything else, son?

The mental gymnastics that must be undertaken to make those scriptures teach what you want them to teach must be very tiring. Take a rest mate.

BreadOfLife · Jan 10, 2021

Backlit said:
The mental gymnastics that must be undertaken to make those scriptures teach what you want them to teach must be very tiring. Take a rest mate.

Smug remarks - but NO actual refutations.
Gee, I wonder WHY . . .

theefaith · Jan 10, 2021

Backlit said:
The mental gymnastics that must be undertaken to make those scriptures teach what you want them to teach must be very tiring. Take a rest mate.

lk 1:49 immaculate conception of Mary & the miraculous conception of Jesus

theefaith · Jan 10, 2021

Backlit said:
The mental gymnastics that must be undertaken to make those scriptures teach what you want them to teach must be very tiring. Take a rest mate.

And the perpetual virginity of Mary
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow)

Truman · Jan 10, 2021

theefaith said:
Or where does it say you have the authority to read and make doctrines or faith for yourself?

The same place they got the authority to add the word church?

Truman · Jan 10, 2021

WaterSong said:
Predicated of course on reaching an agreement that the Bible contains the inspired words from God.
Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add a thing to what I command you nor subtract from it, so that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I am delivering to you.

And, "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it." Isaiah 55:11

The fact that translations differ shows me I should trust them as much as I trust denominations...which is not at all. I trust God.

Where does the Bible say...

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