He continually uses smoke screens to answer simple questions. He rips out "Jesus is the Son of God" and "God the Father" from the Bible.
"American government has been overcome by Demons....."
All governments are ran by Satan!
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"American government has been overcome by Demons....."
All governments are ran by Satan!
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Interesting. As I've said I won't go through all this thread to find those proofs. However, I did see him say this on page 6. I do not reject that the Lord Jesus is the Son of God, I been saying this all along.
I myself proclaim Jesus is the Son of God!
Jesus is also more than the Son. He is the Almighty manifest in the flesh...
That same God which spoke to Moses through a burning bush, overshadowed Mary and she conceived a seed. That one spirit simultaneously inhabits that seed AND remains in heaven (omnipresent). When Mary gives birth, we now have SPIRIT become FLESH. That bouncing baby boy is the ALMIGHTY manifest in the flesh. That is how, and why Jesus can say, "the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." ... and ... "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father."
John 14:10 "...the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Compare the following references:
The Lord God is the Creator. Isaiah 42:5.
The Lord Jesus is the Creator. John 1:3-10.
The Lord God said, "I am He." Isaiah 43:10.
The Lord Jesus said, "I am He." John 8:24.
The Lord God is the only Saviour. Isaiah 43:10-11.
The Lord Jesus is the Saviour. Titus 1:4.
The Lord God shall reign forever. Psalms 146:10.
The Lord Jesus reign forever. Luke 1:33.
The Lord God is the King of Israel. Isaiah 43:15.
The Lord Jesus is the King of Israel. Matt 27:37.
The Lord God is the First and the Last. Isaiah 44:6.
The Lord Jesus is the First and the Last. Revelation 1:8.
Is it possible Jesus is both the Father and the Son? Jesus himself addressed this very question...
Luke 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son? [42] And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, [43] Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. [44] David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Impossible! Science is based on physical evidence. It can go as far as quantum physics, which is theory. They can actually postulate/infer that there are more than four dimensions and even upwards of 10 - but that is theory.
"The invisible things of Him" are clearly seen. JESUS IS THE CREATOR, A PERSON. HE IS GOD, SPIRIT - OUTSIDE AND AND INDEPENDENT OF OUR PHYSICAL UNIVERSE. His power is supernatural and invisible. But not just power, His thoughts, His Love are invisible and manifest in our universe.
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col. 1:16-17
The word "consist" can also be translated "held together".
That means every atom in the universe is held together by His supernatural power. Common sense would dictate that if He created the universe, He existed before the universe.
Some advice, Don't mess with the WORD. If you are not a believer in Jesus and have not been baptized by the Holy Spirit, you cannot discern scripture. One needs to be transformed spiritually in order to discern the depths of scripture.
The WORD, (LOGOS) is Jesus, the exact expression and illumination of God. He transcended into our physical realm and became flesh.
Don't mess with the WORD, He is God, He is Holy. He has attributes that transcend and are manifest into our realm but be careful not tonkean on your own understanding. He shares some of His knowledge with us in scripture but don't go off on a sci-fi tangent.
Simply, Jesus made the world's, by His supernatural power - not by nature.
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101G
Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, to all.
since you're so righteous, have you ever once thanked, 101G in any of your POSTS?, you say I reject Jesus, the Son of God, but do not the bible say, Matthew 5:43 "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy." Matthew 5:44 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"
well let's see, you been saying, "You reject Jesus, the Son of God and "God the Father", when in fact I have never rejected Jesus, at all in any area. but you accuse me of this. I have never receive a thank you from you in any post, but I, (even Knowing that you accuse me falsely), I still have thank you for your replies, majority of the times... but have you, mr. rightious, Holy than thou, have ever, or even ONCE, say thanks you for a reply? and when I end a post I end it in PICJAG, Peace in christ Jesus, Almighty God....... so am I rejecting Jesus there? when was the last time you even told me peace in Christ Jesus?
understand something kcnalp, you want me to get a speck out of my eye when you have a whole beam in your own eye. Matthew 7:3 "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
Matthew 7:4 "Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"
Matthew 7:5 "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Here is how I believe Jesus was the root of David, and was also his son:
Jesus was the creator. Jesus created Adam, who procreated Seth............who procreated Jesse, who procreated David.
Jesus is the offspring of David because he is a son. David procreated Solomon.......... who procreated Mary, who procreated Jesus in the flesh.
Jesus used it as a riddle to confound the Jews. But we understand the riddle.
The question you have to ask yourself about "the beginning" is: What beginning are we talking about. The beginning of the universe, or the beginning of the earth. I believe "the beginning" in John 1, is referring to the beginning of the creation of the earth.
Another question: How can Jesus be with God in the beginning, and be God at the same time? I answer this as you have noted: There is a numerical difference between the Father and the Son. IOW there are 2 of them numerically. The Father did share His self with His Son, who became flesh.
So I believe when Jesus became flesh, he came to earth, and his God, God the Father stayed in heaven. 2 numerically different entities, 1 on earth, and 1 in heaven. Today, Jesus sits on the right side of his God, God the Father awaiting the second coming. 2 numerically different entities. one sitting on the right side of the other.
This makes sense to me, that Jesus is the literal Son of God. The Father (1), and the Son (2).
Alvertsky
Active Member
LOL what is to be continued if this is proven?The Trinity debate is over. Science and the Bible are (as usual) in agreement.
The Godhead has been Scientifically proven to exist beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Let's go over some of the basics, beginning with this verse...
Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"
There is an incredible amount of information packed in that verse. We will now break it down into easy to understand parts.
Invisible Things of Him
The 'Invisible Things of Him' is the Word of God that serves as the foundation of the Reality that we live in. It can be likened to Software Code running a Simulation, similar to the movie The Matrix...
Like a game of Sims, our Universe exists in this Code. How do we know? God has taught us this...
Hebrews 11:3
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear"
In stunning plainness of speech, God is teaching us that our entire Reality is made of things that are completely invisible to us.
In other words, there is a 'Framework' behind all that we see. That Framework is the Word of God...
To be continued...
101G
Well-Known Member
in response to your Post #128.
First thanks for the reply, Second, ERROR. lets take this one by one.
#1. you said, "Here is how I believe Jesus was the root of David, and was also his son:
Jesus was the creator. Jesus created Adam, who procreated Seth............who procreated Jesse, who procreated David".
Jesus the Son/ordinal Last did not, let me repete this, "DID NOT CREATE ADAM", as the Son, but his, his, person did...
and this is scriptural. Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," here, the "he", is the ordinal First of the Son's own self.... did you get that? who is before David, who is David ROOT, because he created all things. now don't argue with 101G, argue with the Lord Jesus the Son, who was speaking at Matthews 19:4.#2. you said, "Jesus is the offspring of David because he is a son. David procreated Solomon.......... who procreated Mary, who procreated Jesus in the flesh". ERROR, son here is not biological, the Lord Jesus was never procreated by any human not the Spirit, but only his body that he came in. the account in Matthews and Luke are Legal genealogy, of a HOUSE COVENANT OF PROMISE BY GOD, in which through a KING, on Joseph, LEGAL side, is coming into the world. and on Mary LEGAL side this KING of the world, is also "HIGH PRIEST". the HOUSE of Abraham by Faith, produce the anstery of whom the Saviour of the World to come. as said, Joseph LEGAL side, the KING, and Mary's LEGAL side, the ecclesiastical or the PRIESTHOOD, of an everlasting priesthood.
so the KING side, Joseph, LEGAL side, as with any King, comes a Kingdom in which the King rules. and a Kingdom rule is in it’s GOVERNMENT. supportive scripture, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
on Mary's, LEGAL side, an everlasting priesthood. which she was a descendant from the levitical priesthood, which by promise is to be replace, Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." and why? Hebrews 7:24 "But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood."
and here is the key point in the Matthew genealogy, listen, Matthew 1:1 "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." HOLD it, son od David?, the Son of Abraham? did not Abraham come before David? yes, so this is not a human genealogy, but a LEGAL one of promise by FAITH, so why Faith? for a NEW EVERLASTING COVENANT is Coming, How do we know that a New Covenant is going to be instituted? answer, Genesis 14:18a "And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine”.
question, what do we do each first Sunday? that’s right we take communion, in the remembrance of our Saviour in the new covenant that he has made with us. the BREAD is his body, and the wine is his blood. and Melchizedek priesthood is an EVERLASTING one.
so this is not a genealogy, or a genetic history on Joseph side in Matthews, or in Luke on Mary’s side. but a promise of a comming SEED without human mother or father. understand, we all know, ..... by scripture, that Joseph is not the Lord Jesus biological human Father, nor Mary his biological human mother. Mary only was the surrogate mother to that flesh that was BORN, and God dwelt in. Mary is not the biological human mother of the Lord Jesus, but she, was the surrogate mother to that flesh that was BORN, which she carried for nine months.
so no, no, the Lord Jesus was the EQUAL shared of himaelf in that flesh as the offspring or the diversity of God, which Mary bore, and God MANIFESTED in. BINGO.
#3. you said, "The question you have to ask yourself about "the beginning" is: What beginning are we talking about. The beginning of the universe, or the beginning of the earth. I believe "the beginning" in John 1, is referring to the beginning of the creation of the earth".
Another ERROR on your part. lets go to 1 John 1 and reveal the mystery. listen, 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;" (I ask you Gregory, was the apostle John at the beginning of the earth or heaven, to see or hear, or handle what really was at the beginning? .... NO, lets see what beginning John 1:1 is speaking about, listen and learn, Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;"
YIKES!.) so that beginning is shot down.#4. you said, "Another question: How can Jesus be with God in the beginning, and be God at the same time? I answer this as you have noted: There is a numerical difference between the Father and the Son. IOW there are 2 of them numerically. The Father did share His self with His Son, who became flesh.
So I believe when Jesus became flesh, he came to earth, and his God, God the Father stayed in heaven. 2 numerically different entities, 1 on earth, and 1 in heaven". my God, what did you say, 1 and another 1. on earth and in heaven, what do then think a numerical difference is? (lol. oh well,
but you said, " The Father did share His self with His Son, who became flesh. So I believe when Jesus became flesh, he came to earth, and his God, God the Father stayed in heaven". lets see if this is true, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." notice he said "SON OF MAN, NOT the Son of GOD... (smile)...
YIKES!. the SAME ONE PERSON, Spirit. and where did the Son of Man come from? John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." side note: if he's not of this world, then Mary is not his mother. while he was speaking to Nicodemus on EARTH, the same one person was in heaven, read John 3:13 again. lets back this up, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" a. the Form of God is "Spirit", meaning his NATURE, per John 4:24a. and "Being" is present tense. so what was in that flesh was Spirit, how do we know this?, because Philippians 2:6 states, "EQUAL WITH" God, well you have a little problem, God have NO EQUAL....... Uh O, now Gregory, if you can find me a verse that says God have an EQUAL, (WITH HIM, and HIM is one PERSON), if you can, then we all have a big Problem, because, Isaiah 40:25, and Isaiah 46:5, put any end to anyone EQUAL to .... or with, (outside ) of "HIM", the ONE PERSON.
#5. you said, "This makes sense to me, that Jesus is the literal Son of God. The Father (1), and the Son (2)." Making sense is rubbish and lead to the ditch, the Scriptures, the Truth, MAKE FAITH. for we walk by Faith and not by sight, or the senses. Understand, Jesus is the Father for he has no earthly father or mother, (per John 8:23). as said, son here is not biological. listen by example in the bible, 2 Timothy 1:2 "To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord." (so, was Timothy Paul NATURAL own son? no, of course not. son here is not biological, but metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics, or character). or this, 1 Timothy 1:2 "Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.". in the Faith, that's how he's a son. I didn't believe you knew that... oh well.
so all of your assessment above in post#128 has fallen apart.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Alvertsky
Active Member
Weren't the jews selling trinkets in the temple also the root of david? So are you saying that Jesus was the same as them? or is the point that he was not the same as them
Think
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
This notion of yours amounts to pantheism, which is the believe that all that exists is God. IOW, pantheists believe that God and the universe (all existing matter) are identical.
But God is spirit, and the Godhead (meaning God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) has existed eternally; therefore, God is not the universe and exists apart from His creation. In fact, God is unchanged by His creation.
I’ve noticed that you have some very unorthodox ideas. What do you call your “religion”?
1010G
Before I continue this discussion, I want you to know that I am almost 70 years old. I have studied the gospel of Jesus Christ my whole life and I have read the bible many, many times. I have been touched by the Holy Spirit many times and love God and Jesus with all my hearts.
With that said, I do not need for you to write words like: listen, listen and learn, BINGO, yikes, so all of your assessment above has fallen apart.
We are grown men trying to learn from each other. I treat you with respect, I expect the same. Thank you.
101G says:
Then you say:
No, I did not. Is the ordinal First of the Sons's own self "his person" or God, the ordinal one of Jesus's self.
Just tell me who the Father is of Jesus, and who is his mother?
Before I continue this discussion, I want you to know that I am almost 70 years old. I have studied the gospel of Jesus Christ my whole life and I have read the bible many, many times. I have been touched by the Holy Spirit many times and love God and Jesus with all my hearts.
With that said, I do not need for you to write words like: listen, listen and learn, BINGO, yikes, so all of your assessment above has fallen apart.
We are grown men trying to learn from each other. I treat you with respect, I expect the same. Thank you.
101G says:
So Jesus's, "his" person created Adam. Not the Son, but his "his" person did. That sounds difficult to understand.
Then you say:
No, I did not. Is the ordinal First of the Sons's own self "his person" or God, the ordinal one of Jesus's self.
You would have a hard time taking the biological aspects of motherhood away from Mary by calling her the surrogate mother. Are you trying to prove that Jesus, the ordinal 2 of his self had no Father and mother? Is it because you thing Jesus, the ordinal 2 of his self was born of Jesus, the ordinal 1 of himself, also called the diversity of God? Very confusing.
Just tell me who the Father is of Jesus, and who is his mother?
So you have made the case that the "beginning" in John 1:1 refers to the beginning of the ministry of Jesus? Interesting. This would eliminate the "Word", who we know is Jesus, from creating everything at the beginning or creation of the earth. Interesting. This is all I have time for today. Thanks for the discussion.#3. you said, "The question you have to ask yourself about "the beginning" is: What beginning are we talking about. The beginning of the universe, or the beginning of the earth. I believe "the beginning" in John 1, is referring to the beginning of the creation of the earth".
Another ERROR on your part. lets go to 1 John 1 and reveal the mystery. listen, 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;" (I ask you Gregory, was the apostle John at the beginning of the earth or heaven, to see or hear, or handle what really was at the beginning? .... NO, lets see what beginning John 1:1 is speaking about, listen and learn, Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;"
I have my definition and application of that definition. You have a completely different application to my definition that I have never thought of before.
Base12's response to your question proved nothing, unless the proof comes later.
Alvertsky
Active Member
Again were the jews selling trinkets descended from david or not?
If not what were they
Alvertsky
Active Member
Some of them could have been descended from David, who was descended from Judah.
Some of them could have been descended from Levi, or Dan or .........
I see many threads lately on this topic. Time to bone-up on what the Godhead is...
The Mystery is solved folks. My suggestion to you would be to ignore the Trolls that have not been enlightened by the Holy Ghost.
Revelation 22:11
"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."
Time is running out.
The Mystery is solved folks. My suggestion to you would be to ignore the Trolls that have not been enlightened by the Holy Ghost.
Revelation 22:11
"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."
Time is running out.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I don't watch videos just because someone says "HERE IS THE ANSWER!" and I am certainly not going to waste 2 hours on an unknown video.
Anything that cannot be explained in less than 100 words or in a less than 3 minute 'Elevator' speech ... is too darn complex, or the "teacher" doesn't understand the answer either.
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