I have a confession to make

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charity

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Thanks for all the responses guys & gals, i really appreciate you guys trying to help, its just the way that it happened, like if Jesus was truly son of god, Man on earth then reason would dictate that his body would naturally ...like the rest of man, but for a man to vanish into thin air after being dead, is very far fetched :( I believe he was not dead but managed to make it look that way in order to fulfill prophesy, maybe it was arrange for him to be taken off the cross when it appeared he was dead, maybe he wasnt in the tomb from the start and he died a natural death in peace later, it is much nicer to think he survived the cross and died in much nicer circumstances later. despite all this prophesy was fulfilled either way.
'Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision
for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
And that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy; as it is written,
For this cause I will confess to Thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto Thy name.
'
(Rom 15:8-9)

Hello @Stuart,

Would that not be a deception on God's part? Deception is lying, and God is not man that He should lie (Numbers 23:19). No! Prophecy is fulfilled to the letter, and in truth. It is God's desire that we should have 'full assurance of understanding' (Colossians 2:2), based on fact. How would that be possible if we could not trust the facts of God's word to be absolutely true.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Pearl

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if Jesus was truly son of god, Man on earth then reason would dictate that his body would naturally ...like the rest of man, but for a a man to vanish into thin air after being dead, is very far fetched

Jesus was not just a man he is God with us - Immanuel - God who took on human form.
And he didn't just 'vanish into thin air', he was seen by a great number of people some of whom actually witnessed his ascension into heaven a few weeks later.

believe he was not dead but managed to make it look that way in order to fulfill prophesy,

How could he survive being pierced in the side by a Roman spear. The roman soldiers were certain that he was dead, and so were the people who carried him to the tomb.

it is much nicer to think he survived the cross and died in much nicer circumstances later. despite all this prophesy was fulfilled either way.

If he had survived the cross then Christianity would be a dead religion like all the others. Our God came into the world as a baby, grew up in a family and learned the trade of his earthly stepfather. His coming was with one mission - to save his people from their sin. To do that he had to become the sacrificial lamb, be slaughtered and rise again.

Who the heck is teaching you such rubbish. I think you need to join a different church.
 
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keithr

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reason would dictate that his body would naturally ...like the rest of man, but for a a man to vanish into thin air after being dead, is very far fetched :( i believe he was not dead but managed to make it look that way in order to fulfill prophesy, maybe it was arrange for him to be taken off the cross when it appeared he was dead, maybe he wasnt in the tomb from the start and he died a natural death in peace later, it is much nicer to think he survived the cross and died in much nicer circumstances later. despite all this prophesy was fulfilled either way.

I'm sure we could all think of nicer things than what has happened, but facts are facts, and we can be sure that God's ways are far better than our ways:
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways,” says Yahweh. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts” (Isa 55:8,9).​

Perhaps this article by the journalist Lee Strobel that was published in the New Life Newspaper (see www.newlife.co.uk) in July 2015 will help. This atheist journalist set out to disprove the story of Christ’s resurrection, but discovered that he was wrong.

Two Years Probe Into Resurrection

“It was the worst news I could get as an atheist: my agnostic wife had become a Christian. Two words shot through my mind. The first was an expletive; the second was ‘divorce’.

I thought she was going to turn into a self-righteous holy roller. But over the following months, I was intrigued by the positive changes in her character and values. Finally, I decided to take my journalism and legal training (I was legal editor of the Chicago Tribune) and systematically investigate whether there was any credibility to Christianity. Maybe, I figured, I could extricate her from this cult.

I quickly determined that the alleged resurrection of Jesus was the key. Anyone can claim to be divine, but if Jesus backed up his claim by returning from the dead, then that was awfully good evidence he was telling the truth.

For nearly two years, I explored the minutiae of the historical data on whether Easter was myth or reality. I didn’t merely accept the New Testament at face value; I was determined only to consider facts that were well-supported historically. As my investigation unfolded, my atheism began to buckle.

Was Jesus really executed? In my opinion, the evidence is so strong that even atheist historian Gerd Lüdemann said his death by crucifixion was ‘indisputable’.

Was Jesus’ tomb empty? Scholar William Lane Craig points out that its location was known to Christians and non-Christians alike. So if it hadn't been empty, it would have been impossible for a movement founded on the resurrection to have exploded into existence in the same city where Jesus had been publicly executed just a few weeks before.

Besides, even Jesus’ opponents implicitly admitted the tomb was vacant by saying that his body had been stolen. But nobody had a motive for taking the body, especially the disciples. They wouldn't have been willing to die brutal martyrs’ deaths if they knew this was all a lie.

Did anyone see Jesus alive again? I have identified at least eight ancient sources, both inside and outside the New Testament, that in my view confirm the apostles’ conviction that they encountered the resurrected Christ? Repeatedly, these sources stood strong when I tried to discredit
them.

Could these encounters have been hallucinations? No way, experts told me. Hallucinations occur in individual brains, like dreams, yet, according to the Bible, Jesus appeared to groups of people on three different occasions - including 500 at once!

VISION

Was this some other sort of vision, perhaps prompted by the apostles’ grief over their leader's execution? This wouldn't explain the dramatic conversion of Saul, an opponent of Christians, or James, the once-sceptical half-brother of Jesus.

Neither was primed for a vision, yet each saw the risen Jesus and later died proclaiming he had appeared to him. Besides, if these were visions, the body would still have been in the tomb.

Was the resurrection simply the recasting of ancient mythology, akin to the fanciful tales of Osiris or Mithras? If you want to see a historian laugh out loud, bring up that kind of pop-culture nonsense.

One by one, my objections evaporated. I read books by sceptics, but their counter-arguments crumbled under the weight of the historical data. No wonder atheists so often come up short in scholarly debates over the resurrection.

In the end, after I had thoroughly investigated the matter, l reached an unexpected conclusion: it would actually take more faith to maintain my atheism than to become a follower of Jesus.

FACTS

And that's why I'm now celebrating my 30th Easter as a Christian. Not because of wishful thinking, the fear of death, or the need for a psychological crutch, but because of the facts.”
 
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Alvertsky

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I confess that i am not totally convinced that Jesus was resurrected, i would like to believe that but i seem to not have a strong enough faith as to believe that it could happen, i question its validity but i realise that he was a great man and i still believe he was the son of God, I believe most of the Word but the Resurrection is hard to digest for me.
Lol, people get resurrected from the dead now by other people. So if you are not sure that god could do this then you do not believe in god
 
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keithr

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for a a man to vanish into thin air after being dead, is very far fetched :(

This springs to mind - "Jesus answered them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God”" (Mat 22:29). ;)

If you think that God making a dead body vanish is far fetched, how about:

"When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, and the eunuch didn’t see him any more, for he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus. Passing through, he preached the Good News to all the cities, until he came to Caesarea" (Act 8:39,40).

So Philip was instantly transported, Star Trek style, to somewhere about 55 miles away!
 

TLHKAJ

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@Nancy i think i continually mourn his passing, such a tragedy even though it was Gods plan :( it is so horrific, i kind of lose my faith in humanity bc of this one act, His resurrection takes the sting away a little but it is still like an open wound for me, much like jesus pierced side, i would not ask to put my hand on his open wound :(
Jesus came to do the will of the Father, the Word (of God) made flesh.

John 10 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¹⁷ Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. ¹⁸ No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

“So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” — Isaiah 55:11 (KJV)
 
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Cristo Rei

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Infant baptism doesn't make you born again no matter what they tell you. They may make it sound 'simple' but in fact it is a lie and they are denying you so much. So you too need to make sure you are. Don't just take their word for it take the responsibility and search for yourself if you don't believe me.

Scripture isn't very clear or conclusive either way, thats why im so amazed at how certain people think they are...

I asked my husband the question you asked me, 'How can you know'. His reply was similar to mine, 'You feel different'. It's true, you do feel different; things are clearer and lighter, the heaviness is gone because we are new creatures with our sin washed away and we have that new life of Christ within us.

You feel different... I was expecting something more accurate than that. Our feelings change all the time... So its fair to say that its impossible to know based on objective facts and that people can easily be mistaken about whatever feeling they have...

As for washed away sin, are you free from temptation now? Not even Jesus was, so your claiming to be more righteous than Christ. Massive claim.
Many sins are feelings. Anger, jealousy, judge, lie, dissention, discord, selfishness, pride. I find it hard to believe that anyone can be free of sin
 

Pearl

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so your claiming to be more righteous than Christ. Massive claim.

That is an outright lie. I never claimed any such thing. I don't know how you came up with that but you need to read my post again and do the decent thing and apologise.


Scripture isn't very clear or conclusive either way, thats why im so amazed at how certain people think they are...

And you can keep your eyes closed to the truth or you can choose to be enlightened. Choose death or life.

Deuteronomy 30:19
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

Jesus said, 'you must be born again'. And not through infant baptism. You don't baptise anyone before they are born and you don't baptise anyone before they are born again.

John 3:3
Jesus replied, ‘Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

John 3:7
You should not be surprised at my saying, “You must be born again.”
 
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Cristo Rei

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That is an outright lie. I never claimed any such thing. I don't know how you came up with that but you need to read my post again and do the decent thing and apologise

Ok, its a simple misunderstanding. Many people do believe they are free of sin, right...
You said "we are new creatures with our sin washed away" I just misinterpreted it

And you can keep your eyes closed to the truth or you can choose to be enlightened. Choose death or life.

Deuteronomy 30:19
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

Jesus said, 'you must be born again'. And not through infant baptism. You don't baptise anyone before they are born and you don't baptise anyone before they are born again.

John 3:3
Jesus replied, ‘Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

John 3:7
You should not be surprised at my saying, “You must be born again.”

What does a born again moment consists of? If its just the belief in Christ then iv got it, we all do.
If it consists of something more, please show me where it describes that...
 

Pearl

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What does a born again moment consists of? If its just the belief in Christ then iv got it, we all do.
If it consists of something more, please show me where it describes that...
Find it for yourself - it will mean more if you do.
 
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Nancy

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That is an outright lie. I never claimed any such thing. I don't know how you came up with that but you need to read my post again and do the decent thing and apologise.




And you can keep your eyes closed to the truth or you can choose to be enlightened. Choose death or life.

Deuteronomy 30:19
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

Jesus said, 'you must be born again'. And not through infant baptism. You don't baptise anyone before they are born and you don't baptise anyone before they are born again.

John 3:3
Jesus replied, ‘Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

John 3:7
You should not be surprised at my saying, “You must be born again.”

Agreed Pat,
I see nothing of 'infant" baptism in the bible. The way I see water baptism is that we confess with out mouth that Jesus is Lord, and when the old man is immersed, he comes up from the water a new man in Christ, as he just agreed to that with witnesses. An infant cannot even know much less choose. And, nobody can be saved but through Christ. I was born and raised Catholic. I was baptized as an infant with the sprinkling but, was I even conscious of repenting of sins I had not yet committed? "Repent AND be baptized!
 
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quietthinker

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U tell me, im Catholic so... I dunno... Its simple for us... I know cos im baptized... What does a born again moment consist of for the protestant?
How do they discern weather their experience was a born again one or not?

If it was so easy to know then why is there so much disagreement about it?
There wouldn't be so many people claiming that others aren't born again if it was that easy to discern...

And besides, it was you who told that person to make sure they were born again. So im just asking how.
When you are in love you know....nobody needs to tell you and who can gain say it?.....So it is with those born again. When one has an emotional connection with Jesus, one knows it.

Ticking all the boxes to a prescribed point of view/doctrine does not qualify as born again or belief/faith for that matter......all it does is allow entrance into a club.

Talk from one who has not known Jesus is dry....it has no life......but this is unknown to them.
 
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Pearl

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When you are in love you know....nobody needs to tell you and who can gain say it?.....So it is with those born again. When one has an emotional connection with Jesus, one knows it.

That is a really good way of explaining it. I have an emotional connection with Jesus. He is in my heart not just my head. Well said quietthinker.
 

quietthinker

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That is a really good way of explaining it. I have an emotional connection with Jesus. He is in my heart not just my head. Well said quietthinker.
I am happy for you Pearl and I hope on that basis we can explore the things pertaining to life.
 
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Nancy

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Born again, born of the Spirit. Spirit cannot be touched, felt or seen. Faith IMHO is the answer to all things. We believe because He said it was so, weather or not we can actually "see" with our eyes or "feel" with our emotions (which are all over the map and cannot be trusted!) should not matter if there is true faith at work, He will make it manifest..."be it done unto you according to your faith" "You cannot please Him without faith"...

Just my 3 cents...inflation, ya know. :D
 
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farouk

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“It is He Who takes of the things of Christ and makes them ours, as we read His word with a heart that is open to believe and receive what He has to impart.”
Makes me think also of John 16:12-16 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. [13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. [14] He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. [15] All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. [16] A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.
@VictoryinJesus We have been going lately through John's Gospel, phrase by phrase like this and it's a real blessing to savour it in this way.
 

Cristo Rei

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Find it for yourself - it will mean more if you do.

Iv looked and searched for a conclusive answer for a while now but never found one. John 3 is vague...

On one hand it says he who believes will have eternal life...

On the other hand He says we need to be born of water and spirit. Sounds like baptism to me. Plus the rest of the chapter talks about baptism as well...

Elsewhere in the Bible we are told that we are already predestined before we are even born...

So which one is it? I think that baptism is most probable but for me it's inconclusive... That's why I'm so shocked at how certain some people are...

When all is said and done I'm baptised and have faith in Christian so I should be saved which ever way u look at it
 

Pearl

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Iv looked and searched for a conclusive answer for a while now but never found one. John 3 is vague...

On one hand it says he who believes will have eternal life...

On the other hand He says we need to be born of water and spirit. Sounds like baptism to me. Plus the rest of the chapter talks about baptism as well...

Elsewhere in the Bible we are told that we are already predestined before we are even born...

So which one is it? I think that baptism is most probable but for me it's inconclusive... That's why I'm so shocked at how certain some people are...

When all is said and done I'm baptised and have faith in Christian so I should be saved which ever way u look at it

Did you choose to be baptised or did someone else make that choice for you?
 

quietthinker

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Iv looked and searched for a conclusive answer for a while now but never found one. John 3 is vague...

On one hand it says he who believes will have eternal life...

On the other hand He says we need to be born of water and spirit. Sounds like baptism to me. Plus the rest of the chapter talks about baptism as well...

Elsewhere in the Bible we are told that we are already predestined before we are even born...

So which one is it? I think that baptism is most probable but for me it's inconclusive... That's why I'm so shocked at how certain some people are...

When all is said and done I'm baptised and have faith in Christian so I should be saved which ever way u look at it
It's like this Cristo....if the cup is full, no more will fit in. Do you understand this??
God can only fill an empty cup. An empty cup is not qualified by a collection of 'information'.

1.....After observing Jesus for a bit while railing at him with his mate, one of the thieves crucified along side Jesus saw his cup was empty.....the other one never saw it.....pride maybe?

2.....The story of the Publican and the Pharisee Jesus told illustrates one having an empty cup and one having a full cup.

All those things you mention above are speaking of the same thing....only from a different perspective.

Now you can work it out?