Is replacement theology biblical?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,625
2,340
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
OT baptism

Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations;

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put withi n you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

This doesn't appear to be OT Baptism. The only OT Baptism I know of was the Baptism of John the Baptist, and any baptisms performed by Jesus' Disciples. Apparently, it was a non-legal ceremony that constituted a public confession of repentance, which is clearly OT practice. The Baptism part was therefore incidental to the repentance itself.

The important matter was the confession, the forgiveness from God, and the repentant lifestyle. The ceremony was just incidental, as I said, and in the NT became a kind of initiation ceremony into the Christian faith--a public confession of Christian conversion, as well as repentance for a previous pagan lifestyle.

New Testament

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)

Baptism was not considered, by Paul, to be necessary with the Gospel, and as such, not necessary for Salvation.

1 Cor 1.17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.

Baptism was, however, an indication that one had become a Disciple.
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,625
2,340
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Wow, you really want to curse yourself?

I got booted off another Christian Forum simply because I called this kind of statement "AntiSemitic!" But I see it the way you just called it.

To say Israel is not called anymore to be a "Nation of God," and to then refer to it only as a terrorist group or a racist group, is setting one's self up for a fall. I didn't say it alone--God said it 1st!
 
  • Like
Reactions: teamventure

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No such thing as Replacement Theology. That is nothing but a doctrine from men dreamed up by those jealous for Israel, thinking they are special.

Most likely it is the Orthodox Jews who dreamed up that seminary category that is not Biblical.

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
KJV



Apostle Paul made it very plain that the believing Gentile on Christ Jesus has come into the covenants of promise God gave to Israel. And he even called both believing Israelite and believing Gentile together as the "commonwealth of Israel"! This also is how Christ's future gathering of His Church is written of in the Book of Isaiah. It's about the gathering of BOTH believing Israel and believing Gentile as one body.

But there are some crept in unawares in the Church that teach lies against this, and that's where their Replacement theories come from, claiming Christ's Church has no connection with Israel's future inheritance. This is especially a false doctrine from Dispensationalism.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This doesn't appear to be OT Baptism. The only OT Baptism I know of was the Baptism of John the Baptist, and any baptisms performed by Jesus' Disciples. Apparently, it was a non-legal ceremony that constituted a public confession of repentance, which is clearly OT practice. The Baptism part was therefore incidental to the repentance itself.

The important matter was the confession, the forgiveness from God, and the repentant lifestyle. The ceremony was just incidental, as I said, and in the NT became a kind of initiation ceremony into the Christian faith--a public confession of Christian conversion, as well as repentance for a previous pagan lifestyle.



Baptism was not considered, by Paul, to be necessary with the Gospel, and as such, not necessary for Salvation.

1 Cor 1.17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.

Baptism was, however, an indication that one had become a Disciple.

sorry I meant Old Testament pre-figurements like Jn 2:6

Paul is not our savior Mk 16:16 faith and baptism
Act 8:36-37 faith and baptism
Btw how did the eunuch know about and desire baptism? Philip preached Jesus!

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Wow, you really want to curse yourself?

the blessing and curse applies to Abraham not Israel and especially not to man made political Zionism that thinks you are a dog cos your not a Jew!!!

read the protocols of the elders of Zion!
Israel rejected and killed Christ and Christ rejected them, gal 4 they are of the bond woman the holy church replaced Israel the new covenant of f the free woman gal 4
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,625
2,340
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
sorry I meant Old Testament pre-figurements like Jn 2:6

Paul is not our savior Mk 16:16 faith and baptism
Act 8:36-37 faith and baptism
Btw how did the eunuch know about and desire baptism? Philip preached Jesus!

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

I agree a combo of faith in Jesus and water baptism saves a person. In this case, it is not the ritual of baptism that saves, but rather, what it represents. Baptism is a kind of synonym for repentance. Baptism was a ritual that publicly declared repentance.

If we mistake the ritual for the actual repentance, we are majoring in the minors and depreciating the very substance of what Baptism represented. It is repentance that is important. The ritual of Baptism is incidental to this, and merely fostered it. It was obviously a valued means of expressing repentance publicly, and we should never say that public repentance has no value!

Repentance takes place in a public setting with or without the ritual of Baptism. But the fact Baptism was the preferred choice in making this public declaration meant that repentance normally took place in this form, and was accepted as a vehicle for this expression.

What set Baptism apart in matters of repentance was the fact it was an initiation ceremony and was a rite of passage for novice Christians. Other forms of repentance did not involve Water Baptism. But it was important to get new Christians off on the right foot, and Water Baptism was the accepted method of expressing new faith and initial repentance. It therefore signaled Salvation by repenting of a former life in paganism and the choice to adopt the Christian life. As such, the ritual "saved" people, through their choice to repent of sin--not just the ritual by which they expressed that!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Keraz

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I agree a combo of faith in Jesus and water baptism saves a person. In this case, it is not the ritual of baptism that saves, but rather, what it represents. Baptism is a kind of synonym for repentance. Baptism was a ritual that publicly declared repentance.

If we mistake the ritual for the actual repentance, we are majoring in the minors and depreciating the very substance of what Baptism represented. It is repentance that is important. The ritual of Baptism is incidental to this, and merely fostered it. It was obviously a valued means of expressing repentance publicly, and we should never say that public repentance has no value!

Repentance takes place in a public setting with or without the ritual of Baptism. But the fact Baptism was the preferred choice in making this public declaration meant that repentance normally took place in this form, and was accepted as a vehicle for this expression.

What set Baptism apart in matters of repentance was the fact it was an initiation ceremony and was a rite of passage for novice Christians. Other forms of repentance did not involve Water Baptism. But it was important to get new Christians off on the right foot, and Water Baptism was the accepted method of expressing new faith and initial repentance. It therefore signaled Salvation by repenting of a former life in paganism and the choice to adopt the Christian life. As such, the ritual "saved" people, through their choice to repent of sin--not just the ritual by which they expressed that!

it is the grace that saves
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The difference between these

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ!
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love!
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Then Once saved always saved!

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,625
2,340
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The difference between these

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ!
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love!
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Then Once saved always saved!

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

It's sort of fun to list these elements and to explain them in our own words.

1) Redemption. Christ died for sinners when they sinned against him. In the act Christ expressed forgiveness not just for Israel, but also for the whole human race, conditioned on their receiving him and repenting of their former way of life.

2) Justification. To justify us, Christ had to represent what we needed ideally, and then transmit those values, in some way, to us by the gift of his Spirit to us. We are justified both by what Christ did and by what we choose to do in him.

3) Sanctification. Our spiritual regeneration sets us apart from our former way of life and from the condemnation that belongs to that former way of life. We are made new, and able to express this newness of life by living according to the new nature we've received. We can mature in this new nature, and acquire greater ability to understand and to overcome trials to our faith. But we are "saved" from day one.

4) Salvation. Though Salvation encompasses the totality of our acquisition of eternal life, it begins when we receive Christ, and results, in the end, in our physical glorification, or perfection.

The Catholic "tools" you use to engage in these things can be useful, or they can become idols. We must never forget that the Church Traditions are never to be a replacement for Christ himself, but are tools to represent him.

The Communion itself is just ceremony, but what it represents is our real participation in Christ himself. We can participate in Christ without the Eucharist. But Jesus gave us the Eucharist as a reminder and as a symbol aiding us in our learning to participate in him regularly.
 

teamventure

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2011
1,646
549
113
the blessing and curse applies to Abraham not Israel and especially not to man made political Zionism that thinks you are a dog cos your not a Jew!!!

read the protocols of the elders of Zion!
Israel rejected and killed Christ and Christ rejected them, gal 4 they are of the bond woman the holy church replaced Israel the new covenant of f the free woman gal 4

Have fun explaining that to the most high God when you give an account to him at the end of days.
 

teamventure

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2011
1,646
549
113
I got booted off another Christian Forum simply because I called this kind of statement "AntiSemitic!" But I see it the way you just called it.

To say Israel is not called anymore to be a "Nation of God," and to then refer to it only as a terrorist group or a racist group, is setting one's self up for a fall. I didn't say it alone--God said it 1st!

Thank You Randy, I stand with you and with the people of Israel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Randy Kluth

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
you have proof from the Bible?

We’re supposed to bless those who killed Christ and blaspheme him on a daily basis?

theadore Herzl was the founder of political Zionism and a Freemason
Those dogs (non Jews) Freemasons will never understand the meaning of Freemasons symbols para-phrase
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
Romans 14:12 NIV

1948 does not exist in the Bible
And if it was the nation of Israel not a secular democracy it would have a king!!!
Next your gonna say the Jews are still under the mosaic covenant validly in communion with God? Really